MaRo has expressed serious regrets that BFZ ended up being ROE 2.0 and not ZEN/WWK 2.0. Fans missed key elements from the first ZEN block; namely D&D World with quests and traps and all of that. So, I have a feeling MaRo is seeking a bit of a 'do over' with Ixalan.
The more I see, the more I think this is probably true. "Explore, explore, explore.."
The art certainly seems to point in that direction. Pirates. Treasures. Jungles (presumably replete with ancient ruins, angry natives, and vicious traps.) We might even get a Curse or two.. ADVENTURE WORLD.
And...LANDFALL. What do Pirates do? They search for dry land...it's called 'Making Landfall' for a reason. "LAND HO!" Yes, it would be soon to bring it back but, seriously, who would actually complain about it?
And...LANDFALL. What do Pirates do? They search for dry land...it's called 'Making Landfall' for a reason. "LAND HO!" Yes, it would be soon to bring it back but, seriously, who would actually complain about it?
There will be someone who'd complain. I wouldn't mind landfall myself.
IIRC, Raid is making a comeback with Ixalan, and there's literally a keyword mechanic called "Explore" based on the leaks.
Do I think Ixalan is a means to redeem the adventure world concept that Zendikar effectively lost? Maybe, but I can't say for certain. I'd add that Zendikar was doomed to suffer its fate, because the Eldrazi themselves were a sort of endgame for the plane's story; beyond that, the exploration theme had no clear goal. Ixalan, on the other hand, more than likely has something more local as its endgame, and everyone important is probably gunning for what lies in Orazca; I say "more than likely" because we don't know what is hidden in that golden city.
I think the themes and feel will be similar but already it looks different mechanically.
Officially know, they been pushing the tribal aspects with Dinos and Pirates as the "faces" of the set and from today we know Vamps and Merfolk will also be tribes. Zendiakr was mechanically a land set that was then figured out to be an adventure world, like how two-color set lead to city world with Ravnica.
So Ixalan seems to be a tribal themed that lead to adventure world and Zendikar is land themed that lead to adventure world. Just glad its not another artifact world.
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I think the themes and feel will be similar but already it looks different mechanically.
Officially know, they been pushing the tribal aspects with Dinos and Pirates as the "faces" of the set and from today we know Vamps and Merfolk will also be tribes. Zendiakr was mechanically a land set that was then figured out to be an adventure world, like how two-color set lead to city world with Ravnica.
So Ixalan seems to be a tribal themed that lead to adventure world and Zendikar is land themed that lead to adventure world. Just glad its not another artifact world.
Was having another artifact world really that much of a worry? Kaladesh is still in Standard, and I doubt they would have done another "official" artifact block so soon.
And...LANDFALL. What do Pirates do? They search for dry land...it's called 'Making Landfall' for a reason. "LAND HO!" Yes, it would be soon to bring it back but, seriously, who would actually complain about it?
There will be someone who'd complain. I wouldn't mind landfall myself.
IIRC, Raid is making a comeback with Ixalan, and there's literally a keyword mechanic called "Explore" based on the leaks.
Do I think Ixalan is a means to redeem the adventure world concept that Zendikar effectively lost? Maybe, but I can't say for certain. I'd add that Zendikar was doomed to suffer its fate, because the Eldrazi themselves were a sort of endgame for the plane's story; beyond that, the exploration theme had no clear goal. Ixalan, on the other hand, more than likely has something more local as its endgame, and everyone important is probably gunning for what lies in Orazca; I say "more than likely" because we don't know what is hidden in that golden city.
That's something I enjoy, actually, I don't think that a plane needs to have an "endgame" or goal. I mean, our world doesn't have one. I think MTG would benefit from creating living, breathing worlds that exist and thrive without the need for a big event as their focal point. It would make worlds feel more organic. Like they exist whether or not we visit them which is what I think one would want in a fantasy world. Lorwyn was very close to this, actually.
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After all those leaks, I am not impressed by Ixalan rares so I don't expect something groundbreaking in common/uncommon section. For me, this world looks kinda... plain, I guess. Seeing reused mechanics such as Raid and Vehicles doesn't help at all.
I think the themes and feel will be similar but already it looks different mechanically.
Officially know, they been pushing the tribal aspects with Dinos and Pirates as the "faces" of the set and from today we know Vamps and Merfolk will also be tribes. Zendiakr was mechanically a land set that was then figured out to be an adventure world, like how two-color set lead to city world with Ravnica.
So Ixalan seems to be a tribal themed that lead to adventure world and Zendikar is land themed that lead to adventure world. Just glad its not another artifact world.
Was having another artifact world really that much of a worry? Kaladesh is still in Standard, and I doubt they would have done another "official" artifact block so soon.
I'm just grumpy that a bunch of planes already already are "artifact world", Mirrodin/New Phyrexia and Kaladesh are bottom-up artifact worlds, with Alara/Esper and Fiora both having artifact elements that could a focus for a set. I have an artifact deck and I'm thinking we have enough artifact worlds.
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After all those leaks, I am not impressed by Ixalan rares so I don't expect something groundbreaking in common/uncommon section. For me, this world looks kinda... plain, I guess. Seeing reused mechanics such as Raid and Vehicles doesn't help at all.
What's the issue with Vehicles being reused? It's an artifact subtype with a specific mechanic. To me, that's like being mad about Equipment being reused after the original Mirrodin block, or Auras being reused in any set. Also there's no reason to not use them for pirate ships and such.
Also Raid is supposed to be in line with the pirate theme.
I'm just grumpy that a bunch of planes already already are "artifact world", Mirrodin/New Phyrexia and Kaladesh are bottom-up artifact worlds, with Alara/Esper and Fiora both having artifact elements that could a focus for a set. I have an artifact deck and I'm thinking we have enough artifact worlds.
I see. I don't mind having more than one artifact-heavy world, especially since Esper, Mirrodin/New Phyrexia and Kaladesh have distinct differences in how they handle them. Esper goes all in with colored artifacts, and every creature is an artifact creature. Mirrodin/New Phyrexia laughs at the color pie by having colorless artifacts everywhere that do everything, and even the colored cards are genericized in New Phyrexia thanks to Phyrexian mana. Kaladesh strikes a balance between artifacts and non-artifacts.
After all those leaks, I am not impressed by Ixalan rares so I don't expect something groundbreaking in common/uncommon section. For me, this world looks kinda... plain, I guess. Seeing reused mechanics such as Raid and Vehicles doesn't help at all.
What's the issue with Vehicles being reused? It's an artifact subtype with a specific mechanic. To me, that's like being mad about Equipment being reused after the original Mirrodin block, or Auras being reused in any set. Also there's no reason to not use them for pirate ships and such.
Also Raid is supposed to be in line with the pirate theme.
Even thinking about Vehicles becoming evergreen such as Auras or Equipments gives me a little panic attack.
Is it flavor violation? Vast majority of planes we visit have 'modes of transportation' on them. (No, I agree, not all of them.) They're generally not as advanced as those found on Kaladesh, but they are present. We've certainly had them in CORE sets as well.
Is it bad gameplay? This, I could maybe agree with. They definitely f'd up on Copter but otherwise, I think their power level is reasonable. I do think they are a little confusing as a card type; these were (and remain) harder for me to personally play with. (Part of that is I just don't play them in many decks and do not play Standard, so no help there.) Overall though, I'd have to say Equipments are a lot more intuitive and easier to understand.
I like Vehicles. I would be fine with them in pretty small doses (even as few as one) in any set where it makes a lot of sense. Like Pirate Ships in Ixilan. "Epic Sea Battles" might be kinda cool.
Is it flavor violation? Vast majority of planes we visit have 'modes of transportation' on them. (No, I agree, not all of them.) They're generally not as advanced as those found on Kaladesh, but they are present. We've certainly had them in CORE sets as well.
Is it bad gameplay? This, I could maybe agree with. They definitely f'd up on Copter but otherwise, I think their power level is reasonable. I do think they are a little confusing as a card type; these were (and remain) harder for me to personally play with. (Part of that is I just don't play them in many decks and do not play Standard, so no help there.) Overall though, I'd have to say Equipments are a lot more intuitive and easier to understand.
I like Vehicles. I would be fine with them in pretty small doses (even as few as one) in any set where it makes a lot of sense. Like Pirate Ships in Ixilan. "Epic Sea Battles" might be kinda cool.
Well, different people can have different opinions. I personally got bad memories about Vehicles so I don't like the concept at all.
At least, they may be semi-evergreen just as Curses. And yes, I hope to see less broken Vehicles in the future.
Well, different people can have different opinions. I personally got bad memories about Vehicles so I don't like the concept at all.
At least, they may be semi-evergreen just as Curses. And yes, I hope to see less broken Vehicles in the future.
You don't think people had badmemories about Equipment too?
Equipment also started out busted in Mirrodin, because they wanted to push it as a new concept, just like they wanted to push Vehicles in Kaladesh. Also outside of Copter and Heart of Kiran, how many Vehicles actually proved to be problematic?
Well, different people can have different opinions. I personally got bad memories about Vehicles so I don't like the concept at all.
At least, they may be semi-evergreen just as Curses. And yes, I hope to see less broken Vehicles in the future.
You don't think people had badmemories about Equipment too?
Equipment also started out busted in Mirrodin, because they wanted to push it as a new concept, just like they wanted to push Vehicles in Kaladesh. Also outside of Copter and Heart of Kiran, how many Vehicles actually proved to be problematic?
You probably know how many players dropped Magic after Mirrodin (I guess Affinity was the main reason but still).
Well, different people can have different opinions. I personally got bad memories about Vehicles so I don't like the concept at all.
At least, they may be semi-evergreen just as Curses. And yes, I hope to see less broken Vehicles in the future.
You don't think people had badmemories about Equipment too?
Equipment also started out busted in Mirrodin, because they wanted to push it as a new concept, just like they wanted to push Vehicles in Kaladesh. Also outside of Copter and Heart of Kiran, how many Vehicles actually proved to be problematic?
You probably know how many players dropped Magic after Mirrodin (I guess Affinity was the main reason but still).
I think Mirrodin is a lesson on how not to do an artifact block, which despite the hiccups, I think they've somewhat learned since Kaladesh wasn't nearly as color pie-breaking. Aetherworks Marvel, Smuggler's Copter and Heart of Kiran were pretty impactful cards in Standard nonetheless, and Paradox Engine is mostly busted in Commander. The Cat combo didn't involve any non-token artifacts, which I guess was different.
Ixalan isn't an artifact block anyway, so we don't have to worry about the inherent dangers of that kind of thing.
All I'm saying is that I don't think Vehicles will bring down the game if they become evergreen or deciduous.
I really disliked the look of vehicles in Kaladesh, but I'm eager to get a cool pirate ship or two.
Tha's about what it is. Vehicles seems like a push towards a science based mentality rather than a magical based one. The further you go back in Magics history, the more the artifacts (machines) are magical. It seems contradictory. Both in a real world sense and to what MtG is. It's not Science the Gathering.
Pirate ships on the other hand seem like something in line with what people might create if they can't use Magic.
I remember people complaining about some cards in Portal 2 like Alaborn Zealot because of this. Interestingly, cards like Goblin Sharpshooter never seemed to cause anyone to bat an eye so I dunno.
My reaction to the leaked rares has been lukewarm, but I'm sure there's great stuff going on in Ixalan. I'm quietly unexcited about the return of vehicles, but there definitely is design space to be explored there. Raid on the other hand is among the most boring mechanics out there. It wants me to attack... lots of cards want me to attack, and there's not a ton of design space to be had.
I really disliked the look of vehicles in Kaladesh, but I'm eager to get a cool pirate ship or two.
Tha's about what it is. Vehicles seems like a push towards a science based mentality rather than a magical based one. The further you go back in Magics history, the more the artifacts (machines) are magical. It seems contradictory. Both in a real world sense and to what MtG is. It's not Science the Gathering.
Pirate ships on the other hand seem like something in line with what people might create if they can't use Magic.
I remember people complaining about some cards in Portal 2 like Alaborn Zealot because of this. Interestingly, cards like Goblin Sharpshooter never seemed to cause anyone to bat an eye so I dunno.
I've never understood why players or MaRo are so vehemently against rudimentary firearms being in MTG. It's not like Alaborn Zealot is holing an AR-15. It's a wooden rifle that looks like it either uses a flint lock or is muzzle loaded. Guns are exactly what people would create if they can't use magic, especially if there are actual wizards on the same plane that they're afraid of.
I mean flintlock fantasy is a genre and Kaladesh's steampunk world feels more futuristic and sci-fi than our own. And if Kaladesh can have giant robots and iPads I don't see why another plane can't have primitive guns. This is especially topical considering that Ixalan is partially a pirate block and flintlocks are pretty iconic to the pirate image. Not to mention that a wild west world is apparently on the shortlist and I don't know how they're going to pull that off considering that the revolver is as iconic to the cowboy as the katana is to the samurai.
I mean seriously. If they want to make them be all magical to justify them then why not use aether instead of gunpowder? Heck they could even go so far as to make the guns use aether based ammunition.
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They're also kind of redundant. Artifact creatures already existed. Even temporary artifact creatures already existed. They added nothing, except another "let's turn card type X into creatures" mechanic. It's more lazy design along the lines of the 20 or so kicker variants we've seen the past 5 years or so.
One speculation I had about what Vehicles were going to be was a reverse Equipment. In other words, the creatures are equipped to the artifacts instead of the opposite, and the artifacts then do whatever as long as they're equipped with the creature. Being artifact creatures as long as they're crewed makes sense to me at the very least, since vehicles move and are basically extensions of their drivers.
Also we've had vehiclecards in the past, but they didn't "behave" like vehicles.
And...LANDFALL. What do Pirates do? They search for dry land...it's called 'Making Landfall' for a reason. "LAND HO!" Yes, it would be soon to bring it back but, seriously, who would actually complain about it?
There will be someone who'd complain. I wouldn't mind landfall myself.
IIRC, Raid is making a comeback with Ixalan, and there's literally a keyword mechanic called "Explore" based on the leaks.
Do I think Ixalan is a means to redeem the adventure world concept that Zendikar effectively lost? Maybe, but I can't say for certain. I'd add that Zendikar was doomed to suffer its fate, because the Eldrazi themselves were a sort of endgame for the plane's story; beyond that, the exploration theme had no clear goal. Ixalan, on the other hand, more than likely has something more local as its endgame, and everyone important is probably gunning for what lies in Orazca; I say "more than likely" because we don't know what is hidden in that golden city.
That's something I enjoy, actually, I don't think that a plane needs to have an "endgame" or goal. I mean, our world doesn't have one. I think MTG would benefit from creating living, breathing worlds that exist and thrive without the need for a big event as their focal point. It would make worlds feel more organic. Like they exist whether or not we visit them which is what I think one would want in a fantasy world. Lorwyn was very close to this, actually.
I agree. I think it would be fun to see the four tribes learn about their culture and play in their world. I think especially if they want us to feel like we're exploring it should feel open and not like we are on a track just seeing certain snippets.
Yes, it would be soon to bring landfall back but, seriously, who would actually complain about it?
I would.
Much of the excitement of landfall comes from the fact that they under costed it the first time around. It makes for bad play experience because you never fail to 'draw gas' making it hard to come back from behind and making fairly aggressive formats.
No thanks.
Also BFZ wasn't ROE 2, they chickened out and made something that was in between ROE and Zen. It didn't appeal to either audience all that well. ROE was battlecruser magic, and they can't do that right under NWO, or so they claim.
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Alternatively {UB} or {2B} in [mana] tags are (U/B) or (2/B) T is :symtap: and T will give T in [mana] tags
MaRo has expressed serious regrets that BFZ ended up being ROE 2.0 and not ZEN/WWK 2.0. Fans missed key elements from the first ZEN block; namely D&D World with quests and traps and all of that. So, I have a feeling MaRo is seeking a bit of a 'do over' with Ixalan.
The more I see, the more I think this is probably true. "Explore, explore, explore.."
The art certainly seems to point in that direction. Pirates. Treasures. Jungles (presumably replete with ancient ruins, angry natives, and vicious traps.) We might even get a Curse or two.. ADVENTURE WORLD.
And...LANDFALL. What do Pirates do? They search for dry land...it's called 'Making Landfall' for a reason. "LAND HO!" Yes, it would be soon to bring it back but, seriously, who would actually complain about it?
Anyone else?
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There will be someone who'd complain. I wouldn't mind landfall myself.
IIRC, Raid is making a comeback with Ixalan, and there's literally a keyword mechanic called "Explore" based on the leaks.
Do I think Ixalan is a means to redeem the adventure world concept that Zendikar effectively lost? Maybe, but I can't say for certain. I'd add that Zendikar was doomed to suffer its fate, because the Eldrazi themselves were a sort of endgame for the plane's story; beyond that, the exploration theme had no clear goal. Ixalan, on the other hand, more than likely has something more local as its endgame, and everyone important is probably gunning for what lies in Orazca; I say "more than likely" because we don't know what is hidden in that golden city.
Officially know, they been pushing the tribal aspects with Dinos and Pirates as the "faces" of the set and from today we know Vamps and Merfolk will also be tribes. Zendiakr was mechanically a land set that was then figured out to be an adventure world, like how two-color set lead to city world with Ravnica.
So Ixalan seems to be a tribal themed that lead to adventure world and Zendikar is land themed that lead to adventure world. Just glad its not another artifact world.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Was having another artifact world really that much of a worry? Kaladesh is still in Standard, and I doubt they would have done another "official" artifact block so soon.
-Chandra Nalaar
I'm just grumpy that a bunch of planes already already are "artifact world", Mirrodin/New Phyrexia and Kaladesh are bottom-up artifact worlds, with Alara/Esper and Fiora both having artifact elements that could a focus for a set. I have an artifact deck and I'm thinking we have enough artifact worlds.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
What's the issue with Vehicles being reused? It's an artifact subtype with a specific mechanic. To me, that's like being mad about Equipment being reused after the original Mirrodin block, or Auras being reused in any set. Also there's no reason to not use them for pirate ships and such.
Also Raid is supposed to be in line with the pirate theme.
I see. I don't mind having more than one artifact-heavy world, especially since Esper, Mirrodin/New Phyrexia and Kaladesh have distinct differences in how they handle them. Esper goes all in with colored artifacts, and every creature is an artifact creature. Mirrodin/New Phyrexia laughs at the color pie by having colorless artifacts everywhere that do everything, and even the colored cards are genericized in New Phyrexia thanks to Phyrexian mana. Kaladesh strikes a balance between artifacts and non-artifacts.
Even thinking about Vehicles becoming evergreen such as Auras or Equipments gives me a little panic attack.
Why?
Is it flavor violation? Vast majority of planes we visit have 'modes of transportation' on them. (No, I agree, not all of them.) They're generally not as advanced as those found on Kaladesh, but they are present. We've certainly had them in CORE sets as well.
Is it bad gameplay? This, I could maybe agree with. They definitely f'd up on Copter but otherwise, I think their power level is reasonable. I do think they are a little confusing as a card type; these were (and remain) harder for me to personally play with. (Part of that is I just don't play them in many decks and do not play Standard, so no help there.) Overall though, I'd have to say Equipments are a lot more intuitive and easier to understand.
I like Vehicles. I would be fine with them in pretty small doses (even as few as one) in any set where it makes a lot of sense. Like Pirate Ships in Ixilan. "Epic Sea Battles" might be kinda cool.
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Well, different people can have different opinions. I personally got bad memories about Vehicles so I don't like the concept at all.
At least, they may be semi-evergreen just as Curses. And yes, I hope to see less broken Vehicles in the future.
You don't think people had bad memories about Equipment too?
Equipment also started out busted in Mirrodin, because they wanted to push it as a new concept, just like they wanted to push Vehicles in Kaladesh. Also outside of Copter and Heart of Kiran, how many Vehicles actually proved to be problematic?
You probably know how many players dropped Magic after Mirrodin (I guess Affinity was the main reason but still).
I think Mirrodin is a lesson on how not to do an artifact block, which despite the hiccups, I think they've somewhat learned since Kaladesh wasn't nearly as color pie-breaking. Aetherworks Marvel, Smuggler's Copter and Heart of Kiran were pretty impactful cards in Standard nonetheless, and Paradox Engine is mostly busted in Commander. The Cat combo didn't involve any non-token artifacts, which I guess was different.
Ixalan isn't an artifact block anyway, so we don't have to worry about the inherent dangers of that kind of thing.
All I'm saying is that I don't think Vehicles will bring down the game if they become evergreen or deciduous.
Tha's about what it is. Vehicles seems like a push towards a science based mentality rather than a magical based one. The further you go back in Magics history, the more the artifacts (machines) are magical. It seems contradictory. Both in a real world sense and to what MtG is. It's not Science the Gathering.
Pirate ships on the other hand seem like something in line with what people might create if they can't use Magic.
I remember people complaining about some cards in Portal 2 like Alaborn Zealot because of this. Interestingly, cards like Goblin Sharpshooter never seemed to cause anyone to bat an eye so I dunno.
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I mean flintlock fantasy is a genre and Kaladesh's steampunk world feels more futuristic and sci-fi than our own. And if Kaladesh can have giant robots and iPads I don't see why another plane can't have primitive guns. This is especially topical considering that Ixalan is partially a pirate block and flintlocks are pretty iconic to the pirate image. Not to mention that a wild west world is apparently on the shortlist and I don't know how they're going to pull that off considering that the revolver is as iconic to the cowboy as the katana is to the samurai.
I mean seriously. If they want to make them be all magical to justify them then why not use aether instead of gunpowder? Heck they could even go so far as to make the guns use aether based ammunition.
-Chandra Nalaar
One speculation I had about what Vehicles were going to be was a reverse Equipment. In other words, the creatures are equipped to the artifacts instead of the opposite, and the artifacts then do whatever as long as they're equipped with the creature. Being artifact creatures as long as they're crewed makes sense to me at the very least, since vehicles move and are basically extensions of their drivers.
Also we've had vehicle cards in the past, but they didn't "behave" like vehicles.
I agree. I think it would be fun to see the four tribes learn about their culture and play in their world. I think especially if they want us to feel like we're exploring it should feel open and not like we are on a track just seeing certain snippets.
I would.
Much of the excitement of landfall comes from the fact that they under costed it the first time around. It makes for bad play experience because you never fail to 'draw gas' making it hard to come back from behind and making fairly aggressive formats.
No thanks.
Also BFZ wasn't ROE 2, they chickened out and made something that was in between ROE and Zen. It didn't appeal to either audience all that well. ROE was battlecruser magic, and they can't do that right under NWO, or so they claim.
Alternatively {UB} or {2B} in [mana] tags are (U/B) or (2/B)
T is :symtap: and T will give T in [mana] tags