Lets hear your speculation for Amonkhet's rare land cycle. I'm going with "wedge" lands with a downside.... something like this:
Sweet blueblackred Wedge land
Land
Sweet blueblackred Wedge land comes into play tapped.
When Sweet blueblackred Wedge land comes into play, add either , , or to your mana pool.
: Add a , or mana to your mana pool.
Lets hear your speculation for Amonkhet's rare land cycle. I'm going with "wedge" lands with a downside.... something like this:
Sweet blueblackred Wedge land
Land
Sweet blueblackred Wedge land comes into play tapped.
When Sweet blueblackred Wedge land comes into play, add either , , or to your mana pool.
: Add a , or mana to your mana pool.
Thoughts?
Honestly, I think it would suck. Also, that's not a wedge, a wedge would be BUG. That there is a shard.
Anyway, if the set has a heavy shard focus instead of a more general multicolor theme a la Invasion, then I expect a reprint of the Alara tri-lands at uncommon, with a cycle of rare duals and a few common mana fixers. If it is closer to Invasion than Alara however, we'll likely get a cycle of "bad" tri-lands at common (enters the battlefield tapped, taps for one color, pay and tap to generate the allied colors), a cycle of uncommon duals, and a couple of rare lands.
Either way we are likely to get a reprint of Evolving Wilds, again.
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
If it's anything like the last two times they did a multi-color set the mana fixing is going to be nuts. The tri-color fixing is likely going to be at uncommon and if they are doing a rare land cycle it will be a dual land like usual. It would be interesting if the uncommon land cycle was like Castle Sengir or Crosis's Catacombs.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
Why do you say that? Has Wizards ever said they weren't adding to the reserved list?
Wizards admits that the Reserve List was a mistake. They did so at a time when the game was in its infancy and it was possible the game's secondary market economy would collapse entirely due to horrible reprinting policies - centered around Chronicles. They've gone back and removed things from the RL a few times and gotten around it with premium reprints (Judge Gaea's Cradle and the like), but have gone on record that they will not be doing so anymore (in 2010) and have gone out of their way to avoid the topic since.
They stopped adding cards to the Reserve List with Urza's Destiny in 1999. It seems exceedingly unlikely they would add to a list they admitted was a mistake and have not done so since 1999.
Why do you say that? Has Wizards ever said they weren't adding to the reserved list?
Wizards admits that the Reserve List was a mistake. They did so at a time when the game was in its infancy and it was possible the game's secondary market economy would collapse entirely due to horrible reprinting policies - centered around Chronicles. They've gone back and removed things from the RL a few times and gotten around it with premium reprints (Judge Gaea's Cradle and the like), but have gone on record that they will not be doing so anymore (in 2010) and have gone out of their way to avoid the topic since.
They stopped adding cards to the Reserve List with Urza's Destiny in 1999. It seems exceedingly unlikely they would add to a list they admitted was a mistake and have not done so since 1999.
There was no secondary market economy collapse risk, just a bunch of loudmouth collectors the majority of which didn't even play the game that got angry because Chronicles reprinted the Elder Dragons (which were quite desirable at the time due to their high power). That was it. I was a player back them (and still am), and I thought it was a stupid reaction on WotC's part due to complaints from a few people that didn't really care about the game at all. And I still think the reserve list should be abolished.
There was no secondary market economy collapse risk, just a bunch of loudmouth collectors the majority of which didn't even play the game that got angry because Chronicles reprinted the Elder Dragons (which were quite desirable at the time due to their high power). That was it. I was a player back them (and still am), and I thought it was a stupid reaction on WotC's part due to complaints from a few people that didn't really care about the game at all. And I still think the reserve list should be abolished.
I was also playing at the time, and the tone of your reply completely dismisses the side of the argument you don't agree with. Your assumption that it was a a "bunch of loudmouthed collectors" is such an acid reply and completely baseless speculation on your part. I'm not sure where you played at the time, but at my store there were a ton of people bringing in their collections and trying to cash out before their cards became worthless. If you will remember, Magic cards were being mentioned in the same breath as other fads like Beanie Babies that crashed and burned. I bought a Library of Alexandria for $50 off one of them (worth about $90 at the time). Our store stopped buying cards because they were having trouble moving singles. Those Elder Dragons were worth in excess of $50 at the time (when Moxen were only $100). The reprint crashed them so hard they were worth less than $1 - essentially making them worthless. Everyone who was paying attention could see the danger that posed to the game - not just collectors. Why ever buy another booster pack when you can pick up the best cards for pennies on the dollar? I agree that the reserve list wasn't the right way to handle the situation, but it was the path Wizards' took.
Either way, we've completely derailed this thread. I hope we see the Shadowmoor filter lands. They'd be a great one that rewards 2 color decks with heavy mana commitments.
There was no secondary market economy collapse risk, just a bunch of loudmouth collectors the majority of which didn't even play the game that got angry because Chronicles reprinted the Elder Dragons (which were quite desirable at the time due to their high power). That was it. I was a player back them (and still am), and I thought it was a stupid reaction on WotC's part due to complaints from a few people that didn't really care about the game at all. And I still think the reserve list should be abolished.
I was also playing at the time, and the tone of your reply completely dismisses the side of the argument you don't agree with. Your assumption that it was a a "bunch of loudmouthed collectors" is such an acid reply and completely baseless speculation on your part. I'm not sure where you played at the time, but at my store there were a ton of people bringing in their collections and trying to cash out before their cards became worthless. If you will remember, Magic cards were being mentioned in the same breath as other fads like Beanie Babies that crashed and burned. I bought a Library of Alexandria for $50 off one of them (worth about $90 at the time). Our store stopped buying cards because they were having trouble moving singles. Those Elder Dragons were worth in excess of $50 at the time (when Moxen were only $100). The reprint crashed them so hard they were worth less than $1 - essentially making them worthless. Everyone who was paying attention could see the danger that posed to the game - not just collectors. Why ever buy another booster pack when you can pick up the best cards for pennies on the dollar? I agree that the reserve list wasn't the right way to handle the situation, but it was the path Wizards' took.
Either way, we've completely derailed this thread. I hope we see the Shadowmoor filter lands. They'd be a great one that rewards 2 color decks with heavy mana commitments.
There was zero difference between the cards getting reprinted in Chronicles or a base set. A small group of non-playing collectors got upset over what was essentially a non-issue and threatened to sue WotC (which was a small company at the time and couldn't afford to defend themselves in court), which in turn caused WotC to panic and introduce the reserved list. This was exactly what happened. Thinking something that is, as you say yourself, a fad in peoples minds would hold any longterm value is a ridiculous concept to begin with, and the people at the time should have known this. But it is always easier to blame the company than taking any personal economic responsibility. It was the same god damn idiocy when the beanie baby fad collapsed in on itself, and every other fad for that matter. No one in their right mind would have expected M:TG to become such a huge and enduring success as it did, and those that claim they did are deluding themselves. Heck, WotC didn't expect it to become such a huge success as it did, and have acknowledged that the reserved list has actually hurt their brand. There was nearly no secondary market back then to hurt, and even then WotC owes *no* obligation to the secondary market, at all. They only show some restraint on the number of reprints out of respect to the community, nothing else.
But I was of the opinion then, and I continue to do so, that the reserved list is the most stupid thing this game has ever produced.
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
Where is your documentation that it was a small group of collectors that didn't play, documentation that a law suit was threatened against WotC, or the fact that this was "essentially" a non-issue. I see no facts on your part, just lots of conjecture.
Clearly Wizards thought there was enough of a problem that they had to do something to restore faith in the game they created. Again, we both agree that the reserve list was a mistake and would clearly be handled differently today. Please stop making accusations about why you think something went down without being able to back it up with facts.
Where is your documentation that it was a small group of collectors that didn't play, documentation that a law suit was threatened against WotC, or the fact that this was "essentially" a non-issue. I see no facts on your part, just lots of conjecture.
Clearly Wizards thought there was enough of a problem that they had to do something to restore faith in the game they created. Again, we both agree that the reserve list was a mistake and would clearly be handled differently today. Please stop making accusations about why you think something went down without being able to back it up with facts.
It was a kneejerk reaction, something they have admitted, several times. They have also admitted that it should have never been implemented and actually has hurt the game because they are unable to reprint cards on it. The existence of the Reserved List is the sole reason that the Legacy and Vintage formats are dying.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
Lets hear your speculation for Amonkhet's rare land cycle. I'm going with "wedge" lands with a downside.... something like this:
Sweet blueblackred Wedge land
Land
Sweet blueblackred Wedge land comes into play tapped.
When Sweet blueblackred Wedge land comes into play, add either , , or to your mana pool.
: Add a , or mana to your mana pool.
First, we're so far from Amon that we can't really, you know, guess at the cycles involved.
But as to your create-a-card, that's a terrible set-up for a Rare dualland, you could turn it into an uncommon dualland and it'd play a bit better.
ETBT
When ~ Enters the Battlefield add , , or to your mana pool.
T: Add to your mana pool.
But that's only of value if the set is heavily invested in shard color casting, this sort of manafix doesn't have much play in a set that isn't really big on multicolor. This is the uncommon/common level fixing that would take the spot of a Panorama (Alara), Guildgate or Guild Karoo (Ravnica).
Where is your documentation that it was a small group of collectors that didn't play, documentation that a law suit was threatened against WotC, or the fact that this was "essentially" a non-issue. I see no facts on your part, just lots of conjecture.
Clearly Wizards thought there was enough of a problem that they had to do something to restore faith in the game they created. Again, we both agree that the reserve list was a mistake and would clearly be handled differently today. Please stop making accusations about why you think something went down without being able to back it up with facts.
It was a kneejerk reaction, something they have admitted, several times. They have also admitted that it should have never been implemented and actually has hurt the game because they are unable to reprint cards on it. The existence of the Reserved List is the sole reason that the Legacy and Vintage formats are dying.
I can agree with everything you stated here, excepting that the reserve list is the only reason those formats are dying. They are certainly a cause, but there is a thriving legacy scene where I live. Vintage cards have such an absurd power level they are actually just bad for the game.
Lets hear your speculation for Amonkhet's rare land cycle. I'm going with "wedge" lands with a downside.... something like this:
Sweet blueblackred Wedge land
Land
Sweet blueblackred Wedge land comes into play tapped.
When Sweet blueblackred Wedge land comes into play, add either , , or to your mana pool.
: Add a , or mana to your mana pool.
First, we're so far from Amon that we can't really, you know, guess at the cycles involved.
But as to your create-a-card, that's a terrible set-up for a Rare dualland, you could turn it into an uncommon dualland and it'd play a bit better.
ETBT
When ~ Enters the Battlefield add , , or to your mana pool.
T: Add to your mana pool.
But that's only of value if the set is heavily invested in shard color casting, this sort of manafix doesn't have much play in a set that isn't really big on multicolor. This is the uncommon/common level fixing that would take the spot of a Panorama (Alara), Guildgate or Guild Karoo (Ravnica).
The original land proposed by Tim is a broken dual land. The current cycle of duals always has a downside. This one doesn't have a downside. The second land certainly has a precedent though. There is something similar in Oath of the Gatewatch - Crumbling Vestige. It sounds like it has a decent shot to be created at some point in time.
The original land proposed by Tim is a broken dual land. The current cycle of duals always has a downside. This one doesn't have a downside. The second land certainly has a precedent though. There is something similar in Oath of the Gatewatch - Crumbling Vestige. It sounds like it has a decent shot to be created at some point in time.
Well, when I said terrible I mostly meant poorly designed for a cycle. Yeah, the land they have is a no downside land.
The way I though to make it a rare cycle was to have the ETB Mana be the one mana the land didn't produce. So for Grixis it would be.
ETBT
When ~ enters the battlefield, add B to your mana pool. T: Add U or R to your mana pool.
It... technically has an upside on a standard Izzet dualland, but if you're running straight Izzet you have no reason to run it. It allows for a level of parity (allied lands produce shared enemy color, enemy lands produce shared shard color), but it's just weird enough I don't see any reason to print it until they are out of ideas.
Personally, I hope they finish the dual land cycle that they started in Battle for Zendikar, the one with Prairie Stream and Canopy Vista. They need to make enemy-colored versions of those.
I like tim's idea but I think it would be a little more fair for it to etb tapped. And if it did I'd make it add one of your choice of the colors it's in then when it untaps you can tap it for your choice of one of three colors. Or they can reprint the lairs from planeshift. That might not be a terrible option if they're going for tri-lands.
Back on the land subject here, I see some of your points, but yea this was really just for entertainment purposes. No one could really guess what land cycle would return or be created even a day before spoilers started so why not have fun and start now?
The reason I "assumed" shard lands would be a thing, is because Nicol Bolas is most likely going to be grixis colors, so they may be printing some sort of lands to support shard colored decks.
Maybe they could just print weaker versions of mana confluence and call them "tombs" or "pyramids" or something? Adds , or and you lose 1 life, with no option to tap for colorless?
Quite frankly, I'm sick of the boring "reprints" of other land cycles. One of my favorite parts of MTG has always been seeing the new and exciting cards and their abilities... reprinting a bunch of stuff that was thought up years ago does zero for me.
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Sweet blueblackred Wedge land
Land
Sweet blueblackred Wedge land comes into play tapped.
When Sweet blueblackred Wedge land comes into play, add either , , or to your mana pool.
: Add a , or mana to your mana pool.
Thoughts?
Honestly, I think it would suck. Also, that's not a wedge, a wedge would be BUG. That there is a shard.
Anyway, if the set has a heavy shard focus instead of a more general multicolor theme a la Invasion, then I expect a reprint of the Alara tri-lands at uncommon, with a cycle of rare duals and a few common mana fixers. If it is closer to Invasion than Alara however, we'll likely get a cycle of "bad" tri-lands at common (enters the battlefield tapped, taps for one color, pay and tap to generate the allied colors), a cycle of uncommon duals, and a couple of rare lands.
Either way we are likely to get a reprint of Evolving Wilds, again.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Or even just mono colored taplands with perks rewarding mono color builds.
"OH GOD MY BRAIN IS EXPLOADING AT HOW BAD THE ART IS ON MY OWN CARD"
-A friend's first impression of Ancestral Recall
10/10, I tapped.
I'm on the temples bandwagon too.
On option would be shard/wedge temples if needed in the environment.
Otherwise, a dual land cycle based on one of the future sight duals would be nice.
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
If that is what you think, then you are going to be sorely disappointed. There will be no new additions to the reserved list, ever.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
Wizards admits that the Reserve List was a mistake. They did so at a time when the game was in its infancy and it was possible the game's secondary market economy would collapse entirely due to horrible reprinting policies - centered around Chronicles. They've gone back and removed things from the RL a few times and gotten around it with premium reprints (Judge Gaea's Cradle and the like), but have gone on record that they will not be doing so anymore (in 2010) and have gone out of their way to avoid the topic since.
They stopped adding cards to the Reserve List with Urza's Destiny in 1999. It seems exceedingly unlikely they would add to a list they admitted was a mistake and have not done so since 1999.
They've publicly said the Reserved list was a mistake but still intend to keep their promise not to reprint the cards.
I'd like to see the Horizon Canopy or River of Tears cycle.
Yes. Literally, *hundreds* of times.
There was no secondary market economy collapse risk, just a bunch of loudmouth collectors the majority of which didn't even play the game that got angry because Chronicles reprinted the Elder Dragons (which were quite desirable at the time due to their high power). That was it. I was a player back them (and still am), and I thought it was a stupid reaction on WotC's part due to complaints from a few people that didn't really care about the game at all. And I still think the reserve list should be abolished.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
I was also playing at the time, and the tone of your reply completely dismisses the side of the argument you don't agree with. Your assumption that it was a a "bunch of loudmouthed collectors" is such an acid reply and completely baseless speculation on your part. I'm not sure where you played at the time, but at my store there were a ton of people bringing in their collections and trying to cash out before their cards became worthless. If you will remember, Magic cards were being mentioned in the same breath as other fads like Beanie Babies that crashed and burned. I bought a Library of Alexandria for $50 off one of them (worth about $90 at the time). Our store stopped buying cards because they were having trouble moving singles. Those Elder Dragons were worth in excess of $50 at the time (when Moxen were only $100). The reprint crashed them so hard they were worth less than $1 - essentially making them worthless. Everyone who was paying attention could see the danger that posed to the game - not just collectors. Why ever buy another booster pack when you can pick up the best cards for pennies on the dollar? I agree that the reserve list wasn't the right way to handle the situation, but it was the path Wizards' took.
Either way, we've completely derailed this thread. I hope we see the Shadowmoor filter lands. They'd be a great one that rewards 2 color decks with heavy mana commitments.
There was zero difference between the cards getting reprinted in Chronicles or a base set. A small group of non-playing collectors got upset over what was essentially a non-issue and threatened to sue WotC (which was a small company at the time and couldn't afford to defend themselves in court), which in turn caused WotC to panic and introduce the reserved list. This was exactly what happened. Thinking something that is, as you say yourself, a fad in peoples minds would hold any longterm value is a ridiculous concept to begin with, and the people at the time should have known this. But it is always easier to blame the company than taking any personal economic responsibility. It was the same god damn idiocy when the beanie baby fad collapsed in on itself, and every other fad for that matter. No one in their right mind would have expected M:TG to become such a huge and enduring success as it did, and those that claim they did are deluding themselves. Heck, WotC didn't expect it to become such a huge success as it did, and have acknowledged that the reserved list has actually hurt their brand. There was nearly no secondary market back then to hurt, and even then WotC owes *no* obligation to the secondary market, at all. They only show some restraint on the number of reprints out of respect to the community, nothing else.
But I was of the opinion then, and I continue to do so, that the reserved list is the most stupid thing this game has ever produced.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
Clearly Wizards thought there was enough of a problem that they had to do something to restore faith in the game they created. Again, we both agree that the reserve list was a mistake and would clearly be handled differently today. Please stop making accusations about why you think something went down without being able to back it up with facts.
It was a kneejerk reaction, something they have admitted, several times. They have also admitted that it should have never been implemented and actually has hurt the game because they are unable to reprint cards on it. The existence of the Reserved List is the sole reason that the Legacy and Vintage formats are dying.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
But as to your create-a-card, that's a terrible set-up for a Rare dualland, you could turn it into an uncommon dualland and it'd play a bit better.
ETBT
When ~ Enters the Battlefield add , , or to your mana pool.
T: Add to your mana pool.
But that's only of value if the set is heavily invested in shard color casting, this sort of manafix doesn't have much play in a set that isn't really big on multicolor. This is the uncommon/common level fixing that would take the spot of a Panorama (Alara), Guildgate or Guild Karoo (Ravnica).
I can agree with everything you stated here, excepting that the reserve list is the only reason those formats are dying. They are certainly a cause, but there is a thriving legacy scene where I live. Vintage cards have such an absurd power level they are actually just bad for the game.
The original land proposed by Tim is a broken dual land. The current cycle of duals always has a downside. This one doesn't have a downside. The second land certainly has a precedent though. There is something similar in Oath of the Gatewatch - Crumbling Vestige. It sounds like it has a decent shot to be created at some point in time.
The way I though to make it a rare cycle was to have the ETB Mana be the one mana the land didn't produce. So for Grixis it would be.
ETBT
When ~ enters the battlefield, add B to your mana pool.
T: Add U or R to your mana pool.
It... technically has an upside on a standard Izzet dualland, but if you're running straight Izzet you have no reason to run it. It allows for a level of parity (allied lands produce shared enemy color, enemy lands produce shared shard color), but it's just weird enough I don't see any reason to print it until they are out of ideas.
The reason I "assumed" shard lands would be a thing, is because Nicol Bolas is most likely going to be grixis colors, so they may be printing some sort of lands to support shard colored decks.
Maybe they could just print weaker versions of mana confluence and call them "tombs" or "pyramids" or something? Adds , or and you lose 1 life, with no option to tap for colorless?
Quite frankly, I'm sick of the boring "reprints" of other land cycles. One of my favorite parts of MTG has always been seeing the new and exciting cards and their abilities... reprinting a bunch of stuff that was thought up years ago does zero for me.