Anyone think there could be a Legion of Doom kind of team, a "gatecrash", formed by Bolos? With planeswalkers (and legends) like Ashiok, Tez, and Ob...and a few medium or even good guys who join because it suits their needs (Like Liliana did).
This way their could be Oath cards for everybody. Maybe in the Egyptian set.
This is a predictable, corporate, clichéd, creatively bankrupt idea. There's a roughly 99.9% chance that this will happen at some point under the current creative team.
I think the idea of having a Gatewatch is that they include all colors. It would be a lot harder to include all colors in an evil Gatewatch seeing as many of them are black based.
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I could see white walkers join an Anti-Gatewatch. Specifically I think Nahiri might, especially if she finds out that the Gatewatch were responsible for stopping Emrakul from destroying Innistrad (never mind the fact that they saved Zendikar).
No snark intended, could you enlighten me what would be a really interesting idea instead? Because I agree, that scenario will very likely happen.
Maybe abandoning this Gatewatch nonsense altogether? Wizards has a world of infinite possibilities, constrained only by the imaginations of the creative team (and whatever the marketing department thinks will be popular based on focus testing and market research) and they're completely wasting it by focusing on the same handful of boring characters playing Avengers.
The Gatewatch idea is one of the lamest ever by Wizards. A Villains team? That would top the Gatewatch idea as the worst. Personally I don't see how the villains would work together as a team. And even if they did, they would end up plotting to claim any spoils of victory; i.e. killing each other.
Anyone think there could be a Legion of Doom kind of team, a "gatecrash", formed by Bolos? With planeswalkers (and legends) like Ashiok, Tez, and Ob...and a few medium or even good guys who join because it suits their needs (Like Liliana did).
This way their could be Oath cards for everybody. Maybe in the Egyptian set.
I don't know why this didn't occur to me before because the most recent MTGSalvation Archive Trap article is all about it, but WOTC already has a team of Villianous Planeswalkers, they're called the Infinite Consortium. Bolas runs it.
The Infinite Consortium isn't exactly run by Bolas due to the problems described above by others. It's to easily usurped by other members due to Bolas not being able to be on any particular plane long enough to maintain control. And any planeswalkers Bolas tries to keep under heel inevitably rebel. Tezzeret, Sarkhan & Liliana being prime examples.
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WOut of the ground,I rise to grace...W BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
If the novel Agents of Artifice is still canon (at least partially, I think) Jace took over the Infinite Consortium, and later disbanded it, so that Bolas couldn't come back and take advantage of it. And also his own commitment issues.
They wouldn't be continuing with the Gatewatch if Market Research wasn't showing it as a success. An anti-Gatewatch would more than likely end up as "Bolas and his Planeswalker minions" rather than a Legion of Doom style "Everyone is mostly equal" thing.
I also doubt that they would be getting their own "Oaths" and the like. Unifying the villains could be fine, but the players are supposed to associate (and subsequently play as) the heroes, which means that they'd get more cards by default.
A Suicide Squad of Tezzeret, Domri, Vraska, Dack, Narset and Sarkhan would be damn fine. Truthfully, since each of these is driven by something very specific, Bolas promising them their desires in exchange for a job done right (something the Gatewatch kinda hasn't been doing for poor Ugin) would ensure a job done right...and it would probably be better for the Multiverse in the longterm.
edit - they don't have to be evil; the only character on the movie's team that struck me as being evil was Slipknot, because of the thing about him being a rapist. Granted the team was more interested in cutting/running/scheming their way out of the situation than saving the world because it was the right thing to do, but it didn't necessarily make them evil.
Not a group of selfish, sadistic, cliche evil dudes doing evil thing because...umm...they're evil. No. A group of Planeswalkers controlled, brainwashed, manipulated, enslaved, or extorted by Bolas or maybe even Ob Nixilis. It would be framed as the "good guys" vs. the "bad guys", but just like real life, it's seldom that simple. I'd even love to see one of the traditionally "good" planeswalkers turn to the dark side. I mean, how cool would it be if Chandra truly breaks in this set? With all the little evil nothings that Liliana keeps whispering in her ear, the imprisonment (possibly death) of her Mother, and whatever Aether Revolt brings, she may just snap and then be easily influenced by an manipulative outside force: see Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader and Emperor Palpatine.
I don't even think you'd need brainwashing here. From what I recall of my hypotheticals:
Tezz - He likes to be in charge...IDK what he's doing now, last I saw he was trying to take control on New Phyrexia
Sarkhan - Give him his dragons and he's fine.
Narset - Give her a way to deal with the Dragonlords and she's fine.
Domri - He likes smashing authority; needs to take his lumps and grow a bit.
Vraska - Grudge against the Azorious; give her the tools she needs to destablize the Azorius Senate.
Dack - He's gotten on Ashiok's bad side I think? Give him something that'll help him with that.
There you are.
edit
These planeswalkers could be united by the thread of, "We're tired of the interplanar apocalypses, just let us do our thing."
You don't need to have all colors represented, and besides, it is so damn easy to make a villain that uses any color of magic whether it's white, green, red, or blue. Might not be a good villain, but good villains are hard to write then again magic creative is so poor in terms of storyline. The gatewatch is the avengers/oh nice you just copied something and put it into future sets for all intents and purposes.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
I was actually think about this the other day, I would love it if they did something like add "Villain" as a subtype to planeswalker cards or create a standalone card type in it's own right. WOTC has I think become kinda fixated on the idea of Planeswalker = player hook / representation. Which is great but it does mean every block we have 5-6 slots that get filled with 3-4 recurring characters, 1-2 new characters that showcase the set / add diversity and maybe 1 slot left for the antagonist.
And I'd much rather see a roster of interesting evil characters being the focus of the story rather then any more blocks stuffed full of colourless rule warping eldrazi. I honestly think eldrazi and this constant injection of colourless matters is undermining the colour pie and reducing the identity of settings.
Not a group of selfish, sadistic, cliche evil dudes doing evil thing because...umm...they're evil. No. A group of Planeswalkers controlled, brainwashed, manipulated, enslaved, or extorted by Bolas or maybe even Ob Nixilis. It would be framed as the "good guys" vs. the "bad guys", but just like real life, it's seldom that simple. I'd even love to see one of the traditionally "good" planeswalkers turn to the dark side. I mean, how cool would it be if Chandra truly breaks in this set? With all the little evil nothings that Liliana keeps whispering in her ear, the imprisonment (possibly death) of her Mother, and whatever Aether Revolt brings, she may just snap and then be easily influenced by an manipulative outside force: see Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader and Emperor Palpatine.
Yeah that is how I always imagined it. I think Nixilis would be the nominal leader, he is charismatic as well as the Gatewatch's first villain. But Bolas is behind the scenes dealing with him. He has a deal with Nixilis and has the upper hand, so Nixilis does his bidding while trying to get out from under his thumb. So he assembles a group of walkers as the new Infinite Consortium. Some know about Bolas, most don't. You could have other walkers join temporarily, and then leave like Garruk. He joins to get at Liliana, but is enough of a loose cannon to turn on them. Liliana would inevitably betray the Gatewatch to Bolas, only to have "pretending" and save them.
My roster: Ob Nixilis, Tibalt, Vraska, Tezzeret, Domri Rade, and maybe one other. Domri would quickly realize they are bad news and get out.
I think we'll see the anti-gatewatch be lead by Ob Nixilis.
I mean, being ready to betray someone at the drop of a hat is a big part of Ob's shtick.
That's the defining trait of most villain teams - they don't truly get along and when they do manage to get a winning position it's no big surprise to see them throw the game after turning on each other.
When you think about it that dynamic is not far from your average League of Legends ranked pickup team
Nixilis also vowed to destroy the Gatewatch at the end of the Oath of the Gatewatch story, and would probably have echoes of Lex Luthor from the Justice League animated series.
It's possible they may have the anti-gatewatch backed by Nicol Bolas, but the mirroring to the Gatewatch+Ugin would be a bit much. I think I'd prefer if the anti-gatewatch was its own separate villain entity.
Then you've got the anti-gatewatch members aside from leader Ob Nixilis.
Sorin - Nixilis could probably undo Nahiri's entrapment spell and convince/bind Sorin into service. Sorin then becomes the conflicted green Power Ranger until he finally learns to say sorry to Phoenix Nahiri. Touching stuff.
Tibalt - Likes pain for its own sake, kindred spirits on some level with Ob Nixilis. Not much good reason for them to actually betray each other so we'll see the most contrivances here. Gets into fights with Sorin, likes to troll him.
Vraska - Basically gets hired, will try to kill Jace again. Not an invested member. If she's involved she'll end up betraying Ob Nixilis as a twist on his own attempt at betrayal. Dohoho.
Domri Rade - Punk kid looking for a gang. Anti-gatewatch is a bad influence but Domri ends up rebelling against them anyway because screw you Dad Nixilis. Grows into his own as a one-man-gang. Would loathe Gideon.
Ral Zarek - Butthurt over not winning Ravnica's next top Izzet, could have jealousy towards/rivalry with Jace. Probably has nothing better to do. Could have a lab partner in Tibalt. Aether/Elctro-shock therapy experiments etc. In it for the research + ego.
Ob Nixilis + Tibalt + Ral Zarek could sustain the anti-gatewatch as core members. They could give Ral enough indifference toward the dysfunctional antics of Beavis and Butthead Tibalt and Ob Nixilis. Ral Zarek could also justify putting a plane at stake for an experiment or the lives of its innocents, for the sake of his experiments. Ral Zarek could also have rivalry with Chandra, trying to top her SSJ4 firepower with his own artificial lightning stuff. But because no power of love he always loses etc.
I don't think there's any other existing planeswalkers who would jump on board. They'll likely create new characters just for it. The challenge will be to make sure the team isn't just a constant total mess. The inertia toward betrayal for villain teams can make them easily tiring, and there is a constant threat the team effectively defaults into a jerk-move addicts support group. This would water down all characters involved.
I'm actually most worried about Ob Nixilis himself. They've managed to capture a sort of free spirit in him (from a B point of view) and if he's tied down to a team it could limit him.
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
For a while there, it seemed like Bolas was trying to assemble a team of planeswalker underlings. (Before the Gatewatch had even formed, for that matter.) But then Sarkhan gave his two weeks notice, Liliana's service got retconned away, and Ramaz hasn't been heard from since his debut. Which leaves Tezzeret, the guy who's just waiting to jump at the chance to get out from under Bolas's thumb. So that plan seems to have fallen through.
This way their could be Oath cards for everybody. Maybe in the Egyptian set.
G Stompy G
UR Izzet Prowess/Delver UR
UWB Spirits UWB
UWB Brain Control UWBWUB Esper Reveillark WUB
EDH:
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG
W Nine-and-a-Half TailsW
WGUR Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis WGUR
Maybe abandoning this Gatewatch nonsense altogether? Wizards has a world of infinite possibilities, constrained only by the imaginations of the creative team (and whatever the marketing department thinks will be popular based on focus testing and market research) and they're completely wasting it by focusing on the same handful of boring characters playing Avengers.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
I don't know why this didn't occur to me before because the most recent MTGSalvation Archive Trap article is all about it, but WOTC already has a team of Villianous Planeswalkers, they're called the Infinite Consortium. Bolas runs it.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/articles/49559-jace-tezzeret-and-the-infinite-consortium
BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
They wouldn't be continuing with the Gatewatch if Market Research wasn't showing it as a success. An anti-Gatewatch would more than likely end up as "Bolas and his Planeswalker minions" rather than a Legion of Doom style "Everyone is mostly equal" thing.
I also doubt that they would be getting their own "Oaths" and the like. Unifying the villains could be fine, but the players are supposed to associate (and subsequently play as) the heroes, which means that they'd get more cards by default.
... Black is not the evil color... Every color can be evil. Black is just most likely to become evil.
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edit - they don't have to be evil; the only character on the movie's team that struck me as being evil was Slipknot, because of the thing about him being a rapist. Granted the team was more interested in cutting/running/scheming their way out of the situation than saving the world because it was the right thing to do, but it didn't necessarily make them evil.
Not a group of selfish, sadistic, cliche evil dudes doing evil thing because...umm...they're evil. No. A group of Planeswalkers controlled, brainwashed, manipulated, enslaved, or extorted by Bolas or maybe even Ob Nixilis. It would be framed as the "good guys" vs. the "bad guys", but just like real life, it's seldom that simple. I'd even love to see one of the traditionally "good" planeswalkers turn to the dark side. I mean, how cool would it be if Chandra truly breaks in this set? With all the little evil nothings that Liliana keeps whispering in her ear, the imprisonment (possibly death) of her Mother, and whatever Aether Revolt brings, she may just snap and then be easily influenced by an manipulative outside force: see Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader and Emperor Palpatine.
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Tezz - He likes to be in charge...IDK what he's doing now, last I saw he was trying to take control on New Phyrexia
Sarkhan - Give him his dragons and he's fine.
Narset - Give her a way to deal with the Dragonlords and she's fine.
Domri - He likes smashing authority; needs to take his lumps and grow a bit.
Vraska - Grudge against the Azorious; give her the tools she needs to destablize the Azorius Senate.
Dack - He's gotten on Ashiok's bad side I think? Give him something that'll help him with that.
There you are.
edit
These planeswalkers could be united by the thread of, "We're tired of the interplanar apocalypses, just let us do our thing."
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And I'd much rather see a roster of interesting evil characters being the focus of the story rather then any more blocks stuffed full of colourless rule warping eldrazi. I honestly think eldrazi and this constant injection of colourless matters is undermining the colour pie and reducing the identity of settings.
Yeah that is how I always imagined it. I think Nixilis would be the nominal leader, he is charismatic as well as the Gatewatch's first villain. But Bolas is behind the scenes dealing with him. He has a deal with Nixilis and has the upper hand, so Nixilis does his bidding while trying to get out from under his thumb. So he assembles a group of walkers as the new Infinite Consortium. Some know about Bolas, most don't. You could have other walkers join temporarily, and then leave like Garruk. He joins to get at Liliana, but is enough of a loose cannon to turn on them. Liliana would inevitably betray the Gatewatch to Bolas, only to have "pretending" and save them.
My roster: Ob Nixilis, Tibalt, Vraska, Tezzeret, Domri Rade, and maybe one other. Domri would quickly realize they are bad news and get out.
I mean, being ready to betray someone at the drop of a hat is a big part of Ob's shtick.
That's the defining trait of most villain teams - they don't truly get along and when they do manage to get a winning position it's no big surprise to see them throw the game after turning on each other.
When you think about it that dynamic is not far from your average League of Legends ranked pickup team
Nixilis also vowed to destroy the Gatewatch at the end of the Oath of the Gatewatch story, and would probably have echoes of Lex Luthor from the Justice League animated series.
It's possible they may have the anti-gatewatch backed by Nicol Bolas, but the mirroring to the Gatewatch+Ugin would be a bit much. I think I'd prefer if the anti-gatewatch was its own separate villain entity.
Then you've got the anti-gatewatch members aside from leader Ob Nixilis.
Sorin - Nixilis could probably undo Nahiri's entrapment spell and convince/bind Sorin into service. Sorin then becomes the conflicted green Power Ranger until he finally learns to say sorry to Phoenix Nahiri. Touching stuff.
Tibalt - Likes pain for its own sake, kindred spirits on some level with Ob Nixilis. Not much good reason for them to actually betray each other so we'll see the most contrivances here. Gets into fights with Sorin, likes to troll him.
Vraska - Basically gets hired, will try to kill Jace again. Not an invested member. If she's involved she'll end up betraying Ob Nixilis as a twist on his own attempt at betrayal. Dohoho.
Domri Rade - Punk kid looking for a gang. Anti-gatewatch is a bad influence but Domri ends up rebelling against them anyway because screw you Dad Nixilis. Grows into his own as a one-man-gang. Would loathe Gideon.
Ral Zarek - Butthurt over not winning Ravnica's next top Izzet, could have jealousy towards/rivalry with Jace. Probably has nothing better to do. Could have a lab partner in Tibalt. Aether/Elctro-shock therapy experiments etc. In it for the research + ego.
Ob Nixilis + Tibalt + Ral Zarek could sustain the anti-gatewatch as core members. They could give Ral enough indifference toward the dysfunctional antics of
Beavis and ButtheadTibalt and Ob Nixilis. Ral Zarek could also justify putting a plane at stake for an experiment or the lives of its innocents, for the sake of his experiments. Ral Zarek could also have rivalry with Chandra, trying to top her SSJ4 firepower with his own artificial lightning stuff. But because no power of love he always loses etc.I don't think there's any other existing planeswalkers who would jump on board. They'll likely create new characters just for it. The challenge will be to make sure the team isn't just a constant total mess. The inertia toward betrayal for villain teams can make them easily tiring, and there is a constant threat the team effectively defaults into a jerk-move addicts support group. This would water down all characters involved.
I'm actually most worried about Ob Nixilis himself. They've managed to capture a sort of free spirit in him (from a B point of view) and if he's tied down to a team it could limit him.
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