We can be fairly certain that the set will contain at least a few rare lands. Whether or not they will consist of a cycle of duals or triple lands on the other hand, is pretty much only speculation as we have no way of knowing.
We can be fairly certain that the set will contain at least a few rare lands. Whether or not they will consist of a cycle of duals or triple lands on the other hand, is pretty much only speculation as we have no way of knowing.
I am leaning more and more towards zero rare dual-lands. Mana in Standard is already very very good with 20 rare dual lands plus Spire of Industry and Aether Hub.
Unless they had some lands in the set that they couldn't remove after they decided to scrap the new rotation cycle.
It was almost certainly too late to change Amonkhet by the time they decided to revert the standard rotation schedule. Which makes me think we're going to have a ton of dual lands in Standard for awhile. I'm personally hoping for the good filters from Lorwyn, mostly just because I want them for EDH. Although to be honest, I'm still secretly holding out hope that the Zendikar fetchs are in Amonkhet because R&D expected the BFZ tango lands to have rotated already. I know the chance is basically zero after MM17 saw them reprinted, but hope springs eternal.
I am leaning more and more towards zero rare dual-lands. Mana in Standard is already very very good with 20 rare dual lands plus Spire of Industry and Aether Hub.
Unless they had some lands in the set that they couldn't remove after they decided to scrap the new rotation cycle.
It was almost certainly too late to change Amonkhet by the time they decided to revert the standard rotation schedule. Which makes me think we're going to have a ton of dual lands in Standard for awhile. I'm personally hoping for the good filters from Lorwyn, mostly just because I want them for EDH. Although to be honest, I'm still secretly holding out hope that the Zendikar fetchs are in Amonkhet because R&D expected the BFZ tango lands to have rotated already. I know the chance is basically zero after MM17 saw them reprinted, but hope springs eternal.
It pretty much depends on whether or not they intend to print duals with basic land types within the next few blocks after Amonkhet if we have a chance at fetches or not. If they plan on printing, say the shocklands, or finish the tango land cycle within three blocks of Amonkhet, the chance for fetches drops to near zero.
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
I'm not sure at which timeframe wizards prints the cards, I still hold out hope that the fetches are in but I'm less than 5% confident anymore. I feel like after they reprinted fetches in Khans, that is the last we would see fetches in standard. Honestly isn't the health of standard better without fetches? in the fall we will lose all duals except the fastlands.... so we will need something come amonkhet. with 1-4 full art lands in Amonkhet, I cant help but wonder if they were ment to be fetched.
I am leaning more and more towards zero rare dual-lands. Mana in Standard is already very very good with 20 rare dual lands plus Spire of Industry and Aether Hub.
Unless they had some lands in the set that they couldn't remove after they decided to scrap the new rotation cycle.
It was almost certainly too late to change Amonkhet by the time they decided to revert the standard rotation schedule. Which makes me think we're going to have a ton of dual lands in Standard for awhile.
That is hard to tell. First of all, even if the announcement was made October 2016 we don't know when the actual decision was made, or for how long they had been considering the decision. It's possible that they were developing Amonkhet with the knowledge that changes to rotation might be coming in the future.
Also, they were apparently able to gauge the community response to the BFZ-expeditions before making the decision on the KLD masterpieces. Now masterpieces are special (own print sheet, no impact on standard), and they could have had all the arts and stuff ready, but it does show how they can make late decisions on a set.
Swapping five dual lands out with five utility lands for example, would probably mean that they could use the same artwork for the cycle.
I still hold out hope that the fetches are in but I'm less than 5% confident anymore.
The enemy fetches were never likely to be in Amonkhet anyways, because they would be in Standard together with the fastlands from Kaladesh. Both of these land cycles are "fast", i.e. they can produce coloured mana on turn one. Canopy Vista in contrast, is a "slow" dual land. For a very long time, fast and slow dual lands have been balanced in Standard, with what rotating out exactly balancing by what has been rotating in:
INN-RTR standard:
Slow lands: allied Glacial Fortress-cycle in M2013 and enemy Sulfur Falls-cycle in INN.
Fast lands: Full Shocklands-cycle in RTR-block.
RTR-THR standard.
Slow lands: Full Temples-cycle in Theros block.
Fast lands: Full Shocklands-cycle from RTR block.
THR-KTK standard.
Slow lands: Full Temples-cycle from Theros block.
Fast lands: Enemy painlands from M2015. Allied fetchlands from KTK.
I am leaning more and more towards zero rare dual-lands. Mana in Standard is already very very good with 20 rare dual lands plus Spire of Industry and Aether Hub.
Unless they had some lands in the set that they couldn't remove after they decided to scrap the new rotation cycle.
It was almost certainly too late to change Amonkhet by the time they decided to revert the standard rotation schedule. Which makes me think we're going to have a ton of dual lands in Standard for awhile.
That is hard to tell. First of all, even if the announcement was made October 2016 we don't know when the actual decision was made, or for how long they had been considering the decision. It's possible that they were developing Amonkhet with the knowledge that changes to rotation might be coming in the future.
Also, they were apparently able to gauge the community response to the BFZ-expeditions before making the decision on the KLD masterpieces. Now masterpieces are special (own print sheet, no impact on standard), and they could have had all the arts and stuff ready, but it does show how they can make late decisions on a set.
Swapping five dual lands out with five utility lands for example, would probably mean that they could use the same artwork for the cycle.
I still hold out hope that the fetches are in but I'm less than 5% confident anymore.
The enemy fetches were never likely to be in Amonkhet anyways, because they would be in Standard together with the fastlands from Kaladesh. Both of these land cycles are "fast", i.e. they can produce coloured mana on turn one. Canopy Vista in contrast, is a "slow" dual land. For a very long time, fast and slow dual lands have been balanced in Standard, with what rotating out exactly balancing by what has been rotating in:
INN-RTR standard:
Slow lands: allied Glacial Fortress-cycle in M2013 and enemy Sulfur Falls-cycle in INN.
Fast lands: Full Shocklands-cycle in RTR-block.
RTR-THR standard.
Slow lands: Full Temples-cycle in Theros block.
Fast lands: Full Shocklands-cycle from RTR block.
THR-KTK standard.
Slow lands: Full Temples-cycle from Theros block.
Fast lands: Enemy painlands from M2015. Allied fetchlands from KTK.
That means we are left with a slow land cycle in Amonkhet and a fast land cycle in "ham"
That's almost certainly the way it was planned out before the rotation change. Now that nothing rotates out with the release of Amonkhet and two blocks (and 15 duals) rotate out with "Ham", its hard to tell.
Grove and Canopy will NEVER happen. Too powerful for Standard.
I know I come a bit late for this but holy crap cut it out already lmao. It's literally the new "dies to removal" and what's worse it seems that people like to spout it all the time when talking about cards from older formats even though it's not true. This reasoning is why we have the *****tiest Standard in years. How can a land that gives life to an opponent whenever it taps for mana be too powerful for Standard? And don't get me started on the Canopy, we LITERALLY had painlands less than a year ago. Taking away the possibility of splashing Eldrazi or simply not paying life when you don't need to for drawing a card ISN'T "too strong for Standard"™
Don't take it as a personal attack, I'm just sick of the phrase, even more so when it doesn't belong in the discussion.
Canopy is very very different from painlands, not because of the mana-abilities, but for the ability to cycle. A canopy-cycle would be leagues better than Shivan Reef and friends. I'm unsure if it's too good for standard though. Compared to the ability to turn into a creature, drawing a card doesn't seem that overpowered.
The main argument against Grove of the Burnwillows as a complete cycle has always been that a slow controlling deck doesn't care about its opponents life total. So in a UW control list it would more or less play as a Tundra. This cycle would also be completely useless for aggro-decks, which would certainly skew what decks could be viable in Standard.
I didn't find any power-level talk related to any of these lands on Blogatog, but I did find this:
alexanderkrizak asked: The Shadowmoor filter lands are the only one of Future Sight's dual lands to show up so far. Did the other four have issues, or have you just not found the right future for them yet?
Canopy is very very different from painlands, not because of the mana-abilities, but for the ability to cycle. A canopy-cycle would be leagues better than Shivan Reef and friends. I'm unsure if it's too good for standard though. Compared to the ability to turn into a creature, drawing a card doesn't seem that overpowered.
The main argument against Grove of the Burnwillows as a complete cycle has always been that a slow controlling deck doesn't care about its opponents life total. So in a UW control list it would more or less play as a Tundra. This cycle would also be completely useless for aggro-decks, which would certainly skew what decks could be viable in Standard.
I didn't find any power-level talk related to any of these lands on Blogatog, but I did find this:
alexanderkrizak asked: The Shadowmoor filter lands are the only one of Future Sight's dual lands to show up so far. Did the other four have issues, or have you just not found the right future for them yet?
Mostly they have issues.
Except it wouldn't play as Tundra, due to the fact that a WU land from a Grove of the Burnwillows cycle wouldn't have basic land types and thus couldn't be fetched. Additionally, such a cycle would make turn one kills harder as they would be increasing your opponents life count. If anything, such a cycle would lead to slightly longer games in the eternal formats, which is not necessarily a bad thing.
Also, I would like to remind you that things that were true three years ago when it comes to M:TG development, may not hold true today.
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
Nope. Just nope. "Hey, you remember that land that led to years of repetitive, unfun board states and almost entirely banished small creature decks in several formats? Well, they want NINE more of them!" *uproarious laughter from the dev team*
Yes, yes, you can blame it on Punishing Fire all you want, but there's inherently something broken about giving your opponent a free resource every time you tap a land. Forbidden Orchard has the exact same problem, only it wins Vintage events instead. You could design a land that gives your opponent a +1/+1 counter or an energy counter or a Clue or even a nickel every time you tapped it, and there's still a Magic card somewhere, now or in the future, that will make it into a combo-riffic drawback.
Since that article was written, Forbidden Orchard has also started being used to fuel Kari Zev's Expertise. Giving an advantage to an opponent is a great idea in a vacuum, but with 25 years of Magic cards, the possibility of a combo transforming that drawback into a game winning combo is high.
On another note, I thought about this design for Amonkhet:
T: Add C to your mana pool. T: Add G or R to your mana pool and put a -1/-1 counter on a creature card you control.
If I understand correctly the rules, since it doesn't target, you don't actually need a creature to use the colored mana ability (or we could add an "if able" at the end of the line). I believe it would be a good "Fast" land design that Control would love dearly. The problem with it is that it would be utterly broken with "Undying", since +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters are annulled, and do not stack.
I didn't really like that article that much. The humour didn't quite resonate with me, and so I felt he spent too much time talking bull***** rather than explaining the reasoning around why the cards can/can't//should/shouldn't be reprinted.
Quote from The mtggolfish-article SpinifexV linked to »
The existence of this one land already hampers design and development moving forward."
This statement doesn't hold water. Mark Rosewater has said time and time again that the present cannot be held ransom by the past (or whatever the expression is), and that "older formats have banlists to deal with problems". For example, I don't think they would refuse to print a card for Standard that punishes your opponent for gaining life due to the existence of Grove.
Quote from The mtggolfish-article SpinifexV linked to »
How did the red / green land—when red would rather punch itself in the face than give anyone life—end up as this design, when the art and name of Horizon Canopy—the green / white land (you know, the lifegain colors)—could easily have been switched with this one?
This also completely misses the point. The very reason why grove was printed in R/G is that it is the traditional aggressive colour pair, where the lifegain is a real drawback.
(To be fair there were also good points on some of the lands.)
Nope. Just nope. "Hey, you remember that land that led to years of repetitive, unfun board states and almost entirely banished small creature decks in several formats? Well, they want NINE more of them!" *uproarious laughter from the dev team*
Yes, yes, you can blame it on Punishing Fire all you want, but there's inherently something broken about giving your opponent a free resource every time you tap a land. Forbidden Orchard has the exact same problem, only it wins Vintage events instead. You could design a land that gives your opponent a +1/+1 counter or an energy counter or a Clue or even a nickel every time you tapped it, and there's still a Magic card somewhere, now or in the future, that will make it into a combo-riffic drawback.
Since that article was written, Forbidden Orchard has also started being used to fuel Kari Zev's Expertise. Giving an advantage to an opponent is a great idea in a vacuum, but with 25 years of Magic cards, the possibility of a combo transforming that drawback into a game winning combo is high.
On another note, I thought about this design for Amonkhet:
T: Add C to your mana pool. T: Add G or R to your mana pool and put a -1/-1 counter on a creature card you control.
If I understand correctly the rules, since it doesn't target, you don't actually need a creature to use the colored mana ability (or we could add an "if able" at the end of the line). I believe it would be a good "Fast" land design that Control would love dearly. The problem with it is that it would be utterly broken with "Undying", since +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters are annulled, and do not stack.
So, instead of a land that is arguably worse than Taiga in eternal formats, you want one that is on par with it in those formats? Ok.
This statement doesn't hold water. Mark Rosewater has said time and time again that the present cannot be held ransom by the past (or whatever the expression is), and that "older formats have banlists to deal with problems". For example, I don't think they would refuse to print a card for Standard that punishes your opponent for gaining life due to the existence of Grove.
And *ding* we have a winner. As long as they are careful with what cards they print in the same standard as the Grove cycle, it would be perfectly fine in standard.
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
I don't think that it will be fine even if it can't be abused with Punishing Flame style effects. I think for a deck that wants to go to the long game the fixing is just too good at too little cost.
I don't think that it will be fine even if it can't be abused with Punishing Flame style effects. I think for a deck that wants to go to the long game the fixing is just too good at too little cost.
Ah, but WotC want games to last longer, they have slowly been scaling it back for years. Turn 3 kills are a thing of the past, accept it, move on. Whenever a card becomes so degenerate for the environment that it shows up in 80% of the decks at the tourneys, they ban it. It is what the ban list is for.
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
I don't think that it will be fine even if it can't be abused with Punishing Flame style effects. I think for a deck that wants to go to the long game the fixing is just too good at too little cost.
Ah, but WotC want games to last longer, they have slowly been scaling it back for years. Turn 3 kills are a thing of the past, accept it, move on. Whenever a card becomes so degenerate for the environment that it shows up in 80% of the decks at the tourneys, they ban it. It is what the ban list is for.
You misunderstand me. It's not that I don want (or think that WotC doesn't want) games to go long. It is that dual lands typically come with some significant drawback. Grove-type dual lands do have a drawback, but it is so insignificant in controlling decks as to be irrelevant. Therefore I do not expect WotC to be ok with them in standard.
I don't think that it will be fine even if it can't be abused with Punishing Flame style effects. I think for a deck that wants to go to the long game the fixing is just too good at too little cost.
Ah, but WotC want games to last longer, they have slowly been scaling it back for years. Turn 3 kills are a thing of the past, accept it, move on. Whenever a card becomes so degenerate for the environment that it shows up in 80% of the decks at the tourneys, they ban it. It is what the ban list is for.
You misunderstand me. It's not that I don want (or think that WotC doesn't want) games to go long. It is that dual lands typically come with some significant drawback. Grove-type dual lands do have a drawback, but it is so insignificant in controlling decks as to be irrelevant. Therefore I do not expect WotC to be ok with them in standard.
I understand where you are coming from with your argument, but I don't necessarily agree. Of the remaining four parts of the Future Sight cycle, only Grove of the Burnwillows and Horizon Canopy actually have a chance of getting reprinted in standard. Granted, it is not a high chance, but it is still likely to happen sooner or later. Their only alternative to give people what they want regarding finishing these cycles is to do it in an auxiliary product, and I am not certain they would be willing to dedicate five to twenty rare slots in such a product to do it. I no longer think that it is a matter of if, but rather a matter of when. And Amonkhet is a good enough place as any. Do I believe it is likely either cycle is in Amonkhet? No, but I believe there is a non-zero percent chance.
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
I'd say mechanically, I would have thought Nimbus Maze should be ok for standard. It might take a special world to flavourfully make sense of having a maze in the clouds, but power-wise, aren't they rather similar to Glacial Fortress and friends?
The Checkland template is superior as not only does it always produce colored mana, it always produces both colors. Generally the only format in which you'd prefer the Maze over the Fortress would be one where colorless mana matters, or where you have something to cast turn 1 with C. And in that case, Mystic Gate becomes the preferable choice as you have far more flexibility than with Maze.
I wouldn't mind an enemy color cycle of Skycloud Expanse-style filterlands, myself. They would compliment Kaladesh's fastlands quite well, and handily replace BFZ's creaturelands when they rotate.
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
I think you are generally right, but the maze has another upside besides producing 1 on turn one, it can also produce mana the turn you play it no matter what. If you are waiting for your third land-drop to really start playing the game maze can always give you that land untapped, while the checklands might enter the battlefield tapped (if your first two lands were non-basic, say).
But my impression is also that checklands are better most of the time, and if they are ok, then the maze should be ok. On the other hand, I don't think the maze is too weak to be interesting either.
The "no matter what" clause works for Mystic Gate too. At that point the only real advantage Maze has is that reprinting it is far less impactful on the market than the Filters, which still manage to fetch upwards of $20.
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Perhaps "Destroy target dragon or Ugin planeswalker, or return a Bolas planeswalker from your graveyard to your hand"?
May be a little overpowered. But it is far from impossible, even if it is improbable.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
It pretty much depends on whether or not they intend to print duals with basic land types within the next few blocks after Amonkhet if we have a chance at fetches or not. If they plan on printing, say the shocklands, or finish the tango land cycle within three blocks of Amonkhet, the chance for fetches drops to near zero.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
That is hard to tell. First of all, even if the announcement was made October 2016 we don't know when the actual decision was made, or for how long they had been considering the decision. It's possible that they were developing Amonkhet with the knowledge that changes to rotation might be coming in the future.
Also, they were apparently able to gauge the community response to the BFZ-expeditions before making the decision on the KLD masterpieces. Now masterpieces are special (own print sheet, no impact on standard), and they could have had all the arts and stuff ready, but it does show how they can make late decisions on a set.
Swapping five dual lands out with five utility lands for example, would probably mean that they could use the same artwork for the cycle.
The enemy fetches were never likely to be in Amonkhet anyways, because they would be in Standard together with the fastlands from Kaladesh. Both of these land cycles are "fast", i.e. they can produce coloured mana on turn one. Canopy Vista in contrast, is a "slow" dual land. For a very long time, fast and slow dual lands have been balanced in Standard, with what rotating out exactly balancing by what has been rotating in:
INN-RTR standard:
Slow lands: allied Glacial Fortress-cycle in M2013 and enemy Sulfur Falls-cycle in INN.
Fast lands: Full Shocklands-cycle in RTR-block.
RTR-THR standard.
Slow lands: Full Temples-cycle in Theros block.
Fast lands: Full Shocklands-cycle from RTR block.
THR-KTK standard.
Slow lands: Full Temples-cycle from Theros block.
Fast lands: Enemy painlands from M2015. Allied fetchlands from KTK.
KTK-BFZ standard.
Slow lands: Allied Canopy Vista-cycle and enemy creature-lands from BFZ block.
Fast lands: Enemy painlands from Magic Origins. Allied fetchlands from KTK.
DTK-SOI standard:
Slow lands: Allied Canopy Vista-cycle and enemy creature-lands from BFZ block.
Fast lands:Fast lands: Enemy painlands from Magic Origins. Allied "reveal-lands from SOI.
BFZ-KLD standard:
Slow lands: Allied Canopy Vista-cycle and enemy creature-lands from BFZ block.
Fast lands: Enemy fastlands from Kaladesh. Allied "reveal-lands from SOI.
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
That means we are left with a slow land cycle in Amonkhet and a fast land cycle in "ham"
That's almost certainly the way it was planned out before the rotation change. Now that nothing rotates out with the release of Amonkhet and two blocks (and 15 duals) rotate out with "Ham", its hard to tell.
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
I know I come a bit late for this but holy crap cut it out already lmao. It's literally the new "dies to removal" and what's worse it seems that people like to spout it all the time when talking about cards from older formats even though it's not true. This reasoning is why we have the *****tiest Standard in years. How can a land that gives life to an opponent whenever it taps for mana be too powerful for Standard? And don't get me started on the Canopy, we LITERALLY had painlands less than a year ago. Taking away the possibility of splashing Eldrazi or simply not paying life when you don't need to for drawing a card ISN'T "too strong for Standard"™
Don't take it as a personal attack, I'm just sick of the phrase, even more so when it doesn't belong in the discussion.
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!
The main argument against Grove of the Burnwillows as a complete cycle has always been that a slow controlling deck doesn't care about its opponents life total. So in a UW control list it would more or less play as a Tundra. This cycle would also be completely useless for aggro-decks, which would certainly skew what decks could be viable in Standard.
I didn't find any power-level talk related to any of these lands on Blogatog, but I did find this:
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
Except it wouldn't play as Tundra, due to the fact that a WU land from a Grove of the Burnwillows cycle wouldn't have basic land types and thus couldn't be fetched. Additionally, such a cycle would make turn one kills harder as they would be increasing your opponents life count. If anything, such a cycle would lead to slightly longer games in the eternal formats, which is not necessarily a bad thing.
Also, I would like to remind you that things that were true three years ago when it comes to M:TG development, may not hold true today.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
Since that article was written, Forbidden Orchard has also started being used to fuel Kari Zev's Expertise. Giving an advantage to an opponent is a great idea in a vacuum, but with 25 years of Magic cards, the possibility of a combo transforming that drawback into a game winning combo is high.
On another note, I thought about this design for Amonkhet:
If I understand correctly the rules, since it doesn't target, you don't actually need a creature to use the colored mana ability (or we could add an "if able" at the end of the line). I believe it would be a good "Fast" land design that Control would love dearly. The problem with it is that it would be utterly broken with "Undying", since +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters are annulled, and do not stack.
WBC Eldrazi & Taxes CBW
UR Keep on Cantripin' (UR Phoenix) RU
WU Surprise! It's not UW Control! (UW Midrange) UW
BG The Rock, Straight BG
U Mono-Blue Fish U
RBW Mardu Pyromancer BWR
RG Rabble! Rabble! (GR Blood Moon Aggro) GR
Legacy
W Death & Taxes W
This statement doesn't hold water. Mark Rosewater has said time and time again that the present cannot be held ransom by the past (or whatever the expression is), and that "older formats have banlists to deal with problems". For example, I don't think they would refuse to print a card for Standard that punishes your opponent for gaining life due to the existence of Grove.
This also completely misses the point. The very reason why grove was printed in R/G is that it is the traditional aggressive colour pair, where the lifegain is a real drawback.
(To be fair there were also good points on some of the lands.)
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
So, instead of a land that is arguably worse than Taiga in eternal formats, you want one that is on par with it in those formats? Ok.
And *ding* we have a winner. As long as they are careful with what cards they print in the same standard as the Grove cycle, it would be perfectly fine in standard.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
Ah, but WotC want games to last longer, they have slowly been scaling it back for years. Turn 3 kills are a thing of the past, accept it, move on. Whenever a card becomes so degenerate for the environment that it shows up in 80% of the decks at the tourneys, they ban it. It is what the ban list is for.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
You misunderstand me. It's not that I don want (or think that WotC doesn't want) games to go long. It is that dual lands typically come with some significant drawback. Grove-type dual lands do have a drawback, but it is so insignificant in controlling decks as to be irrelevant. Therefore I do not expect WotC to be ok with them in standard.
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
I understand where you are coming from with your argument, but I don't necessarily agree. Of the remaining four parts of the Future Sight cycle, only Grove of the Burnwillows and Horizon Canopy actually have a chance of getting reprinted in standard. Granted, it is not a high chance, but it is still likely to happen sooner or later. Their only alternative to give people what they want regarding finishing these cycles is to do it in an auxiliary product, and I am not certain they would be willing to dedicate five to twenty rare slots in such a product to do it. I no longer think that it is a matter of if, but rather a matter of when. And Amonkhet is a good enough place as any. Do I believe it is likely either cycle is in Amonkhet? No, but I believe there is a non-zero percent chance.
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Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
I wouldn't mind an enemy color cycle of Skycloud Expanse-style filterlands, myself. They would compliment Kaladesh's fastlands quite well, and handily replace BFZ's creaturelands when they rotate.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
But my impression is also that checklands are better most of the time, and if they are ok, then the maze should be ok. On the other hand, I don't think the maze is too weak to be interesting either.
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
WBC Eldrazi & Taxes CBW
UR Keep on Cantripin' (UR Phoenix) RU
WU Surprise! It's not UW Control! (UW Midrange) UW
BG The Rock, Straight BG
U Mono-Blue Fish U
RBW Mardu Pyromancer BWR
RG Rabble! Rabble! (GR Blood Moon Aggro) GR
Legacy
W Death & Taxes W