I've been thinking on this while buying up lands for Frontier, but here are my thoughts given the design trends on mtg as of late.
1) Shocklands are out, Battle lands are in. Given the reprinting of fetches in Kahns block and the battle lands R&D seem comfortable with the fetches. It's the dual typed lands that are an issue. Giving someone the power to basically bolt themselves in the face for any color their deck needs without tempo loss has proven disastrous in Modern. Not to mention the lack of any ties to basic lands also gave tri-color and even quad color decks too much free reign. The only thing keeping these decks under control are heavy handed policing cards like Blood Moon.
2) Fast lands are here to stay, and may the gods have mercy on us all. The Shadow Lands are a much better design to be frank and I'd prefer to see Shadow Lands stay in whatever new eternal format Wizards comes up with as they encourage deck building with fewer color splashes to maintain consistency. Being detached from such issues even at lower mana costs is a problem.
3) Enemy fetch lands are definitely on the reprint block. If we got one set, they will print the other set. The question is just where in the world they will do so after Kahn's block. Then again, the issue with Kahn's block wasn't the fetch lands themselves, but making the multi-mode cards too powerful in combination with the mana fixing so they could print them again in a set if they plan right.
So with that being said, the lands that seem most likely to show up in Amonket are the enemy battle land cycle, the Zendikar fetches (which everyone is praying to the high heavens for), Pain lands since those have been the harmless filler lands since times immemorial, or potentially filter lands. The Filter Lands I personally haven't taken the time to analyze yet because they are an odd group. Since they don't require basics to come into play untapped I think they may be a bad design, but they also can't tap on their own for colored mana so they are effectively a tad slower than the shock lands. Underestimating the power of these lands in a post eldrazi world could be a really bad idea, though. At least with pain lands the drazi players have to slap themselves in the face with a fish each time they need colored mana.
If there is one type of come into play untapped land that has no ties to basics that is probably good design, it's the tribal lands from Elwyn / Lorwyn. Those are great and they really should print more lands like those for other tribes as long as R&D keep tribal themes cohesive. Wow that was a lot of typing.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
The main issue I have with your reasoning is that, if we get an enemy cycle in Amongst, we will have two enemy cycles come rotation and no allied cycle. For balanced purposes, it has to be either an Allied cycle or a full cycle.
The main issue I have with your reasoning is that, if we get an enemy cycle in Amongst, we will have two enemy cycles come rotation and no allied cycle. For balanced purposes, it has to be either an Allied cycle or a full cycle.
Ugh, yeah I just looked at the rotation again and realized we lose ALL the allied lands. They'd have to do something like they did in BFZ where we get a split of one type of land and another type. It does seem pretty likely it would have to be something like the filter lands if there is a reprint, then. Assuming they do a reprint at all and go some new direction.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
The main issue I have with your reasoning is that, if we get an enemy cycle in Amongst, we will have two enemy cycles come rotation and no allied cycle. For balanced purposes, it has to be either an Allied cycle or a full cycle.
We'll get a third block with a third set of lands, but the pattern (all three standards, mind, so the sample is small) has been to have 2 Ally 1 Enemy set of rarelands.
There's a chance that Amonkhet is a full cycle, if the set is more shard themed than just Nicky B, but technically the math would still be okay with Enemy colors if the next block is Ally colors.
Next Rotation -
Amon is Allied: Kaladesh (Enemy) | Amon (Ally) | Fall 2017 (Enemy or Ally)
Amon is Full: Kaladesh (Enemy) | Amon (Full) | Fall 2017 (Ally)
Amon is Enemy: Kaladesh (Enemy) | Amon (Enemy) | Fall 2017 (Ally)
The main issue I have with your reasoning is that, if we get an enemy cycle in Amongst, we will have two enemy cycles come rotation and no allied cycle. For balanced purposes, it has to be either an Allied cycle or a full cycle.
When Amonkhet is released we'll have the allied shadow lands and enemy fast lands and wtv we get in amonkhet. So either way, allied or enemy cycle, it'll be the same thing.
The main issue I have with your reasoning is that, if we get an enemy cycle in Amongst, we will have two enemy cycles come rotation and no allied cycle. For balanced purposes, it has to be either an Allied cycle or a full cycle.
When Amonkhet is released we'll have the allied shadow lands and enemy fast lands and wtv we get in amonkhet. So either way, allied or enemy cycle, it'll be the same thing.
Rotation has changed. Nothing rotates out with Amonkhet, while BFZ and SOI blocks will rotate with Atlazan.
During Amonkhet, we will have the Allied Shadowlands and Battlelands, the Enemy Fastlands and Manlands, and whatever Amonkhet brings. During Atlazan, only the Enemy Manlands and Amonkhet lands will survive rotation (plus whatever Atlazan brings). If we have an enemy cycle in Amonkhet, it would mean 2 enemy cycles and 0 allied cycle will survive rotation.
As for completing cycles, Shadowlands are a good possibility, in Altazan or later. Battlelands are a no-go, if they want to reprint the Enemy Fetchlands during the next 2 years.
Actually, nothing in BFZ or Shadows will be in standard when rotation hits with Atlazan. We'll be starting with an almost completely new card pool that includes whatever is in the last two blocks plus the new one, so we would have Kaladesh, Amonket, and Atlazan blocks. I'm starting to think we will have a full land cycle in Amonket as that is what they did with BFZ last year and the set is still designed around the original rotation, so it would need the full cycle.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
The main issue I have with your reasoning is that, if we get an enemy cycle in Amongst, we will have two enemy cycles come rotation and no allied cycle. For balanced purposes, it has to be either an Allied cycle or a full cycle.
When Amonkhet is released we'll have the allied shadow lands and enemy fast lands and wtv we get in amonkhet. So either way, allied or enemy cycle, it'll be the same thing.
Rotation has changed. Nothing rotates out with Amonkhet, while BFZ and SOI blocks will rotate with Atlazan.
During Amonkhet, we will have the Allied Shadowlands and Battlelands, the Enemy Fastlands and Manlands, and whatever Amonkhet brings. During Atlazan, only the Enemy Manlands and Amonkhet lands will survive rotation (plus whatever Atlazan brings). If we have an enemy cycle in Amonkhet, it would mean 2 enemy cycles and 0 allied cycle will survive rotation.
As for completing cycles, Shadowlands are a good possibility, in Altazan or later. Battlelands are a no-go, if they want to reprint the Enemy Fetchlands during the next 2 years.
As much as I want to see the enemy fetchlands printed ASAP, it's not going to happen while fetchable dual lands (the Battle lands) are Standard legal. They nearly killed Standard during the BFZ block due to the high prices of decks and the time spent shuffling decks; WoTC will never allow this kind of Standard format again, even for just 6 months. With that constraint, the earliest moment for the Enemy Fetchlands to be reprinted is:
- Atlazan IF we get an Allied Cycle in Amonkhet (rotation would leave 1A:1E cycle of lands).
- When Kaladesh rotates out IF we get a full cycle in Amonkhet and IF WoTC wishes to keep the 2A:2E balance in Standard (rotation would leave 1A:2E cycles, which means an Allied cycle for balance in Atlazan).
The same thing most of us are thinking with the fetch lands. They aren't going to reprint the fetches in modern masters so the only place they could show up soonish is in an upcoming block. Given how much pressure WoTC is under from the secondary market at the moment and the weakness in standard and modern recently, they are pretty likely going to reprint those tarns sooner rather than later. They also want to print those fetches again before MTG Next and before they decide on how they want to proceed on the next "eternal" format since R&D needs more play time to figure out how to balance three colored standard without causing a financial nightmare. Historically, I think Mirrodin is still the worst block ever printed for standard, but Kahns comes pretty close thanks to underestimating how much power there is in giving people three colors plus multi-modal cards. Also, since we just saw our first card that references Bolas, it's basically confirmed we got shards wedges again coming in the next set. Not sure how I feel about that, but hopefully we aren't going to be seeing the second coming of Kahns.
Then again, we are currently in the land of Gideon, Ally of Zendikar and Smuggler's Copter, with flash decks also taking up space. Actually, is there anything saying that Wizards wont do a full land cycle with Aether Revolt? They could easily finish up fast lands in this set since it's artifact based and then go to Amonket and print zen fetches and tri-lands.
Edit: Actually, this makes a LOT of sense. If they print the full fastland cycle now, then they can bring in slower lands in Amonket to support control and mid-range strategies. Unfortunately, that could mean anything from enemy SoI lands to Zendikar fetches. They'd also have to print a cycle of other lands to balance colors like the allied man-lands.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Kaladesh is a low multicolor set, as a large portion of the set is made up of colorless artifacts, it doesn't need a full cycle of manafixing. If we get a reprint of the Allied Uncommon lands from BFZ I'd be surprised.
If you look at the numbers in SOI block (24 Gold cards, 11 off color activations) and BFZ block (36 Gold cards, Converge, 2 5-color activations on monocolor cards) it makes sense that BFZ had more fixing than SOI, and both should have more fixing than Kaladesh (which is both artifact themed and has energy counters).
I would like to see fetches in another set like conspiracy, with a normal sized print run but not standard legal. I think mono colored decks should be rewarded for going mono colored and dual colored decks pretty easy but you really have to work for 3 color decks, and you get punished for it in mana variance.
Fetch lands on their own are decent duals, playable but not spectacular. Some people overvalue the deck thinning aspect but it really is negligible. They only become degenerate when fetchable dual lands are available.
Delirium?
Not just Delirium. The last time fetches were legal we also had delve as a mechanic. Not to mention the free shuffle, and there are lots of cards that can take advantage of that aspect.
Fetches don't require other cards to be fantastic. All other cards do is take them from fantastic to broken.
People continue to gloss over the fact that Wizards flat out stated that fetches and fetchable duals in standard at the same time was a mistake. Do you guys really believe after making that statement they will immediately put fetches back in standard and repeat what they just said was a mistake? That is the definition of insanity.
For those of you who think that fetches are going to be in Amonkhet, I have a some ocean front property in Arizona for you!
I would like to see fetches in another set like conspiracy, with a normal sized print run but not standard legal. I think mono colored decks should be rewarded for going mono colored and dual colored decks pretty easy but you really have to work for 3 color decks, and you get punished for it in mana variance.
Fetch lands on their own are decent duals, playable but not spectacular. Some people overvalue the deck thinning aspect but it really is negligible. They only become degenerate when fetchable dual lands are available.
Delirium?
Not just Delirium. The last time fetches were legal we also had delve as a mechanic. Not to mention the free shuffle, and there are lots of cards that can take advantage of that aspect.
Fetches don't require other cards to be fantastic. All other cards do is take them from fantastic to broken.
People continue to gloss over the fact that Wizards flat out stated that fetches and fetchable duals in standard at the same time was a mistake. Do you guys really believe after making that statement they will immediately put fetches back in standard and repeat what they just said was a mistake? That is the definition of insanity.
For those of you who think that fetches are going to be in Amonkhet, I have a some ocean front property in Arizona for you!
If they aren't in Amonket they will be in the next fall set. If anything, they want to get something in there to spice up the set and that sounds like something they could stick into Atlazan or whatever it is. At the same time, it seems like we are going towards Shards again.
The thing is Amonket is going to be the spring set, which generally doesn't do as well as the fall set. They will definitely want something in that set to sell packs and doing treasure chest mythic prints alone aren't going to cut it. If not scalding tarns and salt flats, what will be there? They could try filter lands, but those seem more fantasy driven than egyptian themed so it would have to be the older cycle. We'll probably see new lands of some kind, maybe the full cycle of Nimbus maze or Grove of the Burnwillows? The first sounds more likely than the second since it basically works with the dual lands already in BFZ and lets them reprint the enemy battlelands later. Not particularly exciting but still.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I'm a skeptic on the reprinting of the Zendikar fetches in the next couple of blocks. Wizards is clearly wary of high-value reprints outside of Masterpiece series, and they don't have the same justification they did back in Tarkir of bringing the other half of the cycle into modern. I feel like this is something that people will convince themselves is going to happen, only to be disappointed and angry at a company that made no promises in the first place. Don't let speculation shape your expectations like what happened with Cavern of Souls in Eldritch Moon and Damnation in every reprint set since MM1. Of course, a clear, direct signal from MaRo or someone else within WoTC would be something else entirely.
What about a tweaked version of the Horizon Canopy cycle? I'm thinking Cluestone-style cycling that asks for one mana of each of the land's colors, so the WU land would have "WU, T, Sacrifice ~: Draw a card" and so forth.
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MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Edit: Actually, this makes a LOT of sense. If they print the full fastland cycle now, then they can bring in slower lands in Amonket to support control and mid-range strategies. Unfortunately, that could mean anything from enemy SoI lands to Zendikar fetches. They'd also have to print a cycle of other lands to balance colors like the allied man-lands.
Fetchlands aren't slow, at least not by the most common definition I have seen used by R&D: Being able to produce coloured mana of one of two colours on turn one.
The cycles above the ---line would have rotated with Amonkhet under the old rotation-schedule. It is likely that the lands of Amonkhet was designed with this structure in mind, but it is possible that they could have the chance to remove/replace the rare lands late in development. If not for the change in rotation, I would have guessed that Aether Revolt + Amonkhet block together have ten slow duals.
If they aren't in Amonket they will be in the next fall set. If anything, they want to get something in there to spice up the set and that sounds like something they could stick into Atlazan or whatever it is. At the same time, it seems like we are going towards Shards again.
The thing is Amonket is going to be the spring set, which generally doesn't do as well as the fall set. They will definitely want something in that set to sell packs and doing treasure chest mythic prints alone aren't going to cut it. If not scalding tarns and salt flats, what will be there? They could try filter lands, but those seem more fantasy driven than egyptian themed so it would have to be the older cycle. We'll probably see new lands of some kind, maybe the full cycle of Nimbus maze or Grove of the Burnwillows? The first sounds more likely than the second since it basically works with the dual lands already in BFZ and lets them reprint the enemy battlelands later. Not particularly exciting but still.
It's entirely possible they'll be in the fall 2017, 2018, or 2019 set. At that point, it's just conjecture. It's also possible that Wizards will sit on it for several more years. The massive amount of shuffling that fetches put in the format actually slows down games dramatically and was viewed as a negative in the tournament scene. That won't deter Wizards indefinitely, but is certainly something they will think about prior to reprint.
I think we're far more likely to see reprints of the allied fast lands or pain lands, Odyssey or Lorywn filter lands before we see a reprint of the Future sight lands. Grove of the Burnwillows and Horizon Canopy border on broken cards. Grove in particular enables busted combos. When a card's downside isn't really a downside, that makes for bad design. I'd actually be surprised if that one ever gets reprinted in a standard legal set again.
Personally, I have my money on allied pain lands or Worldwake man lands being reprinted the next time we see allied lands (which should happen in the fall 2017 set). If Wizards continues their path of allied lands in one set and enemy lands in the following, we could see enemy tango lands in the spring 2018 set.
Anyways, I don't have any insider information, just more thinking about what I'd do if I were Wizards considering the tournament scene, profitability, and other factors.
The Worldwake manlands, especially Celestial Colonnade and Creeping Tar Pit, are simply too strong for the current standard power level. If they ever reprint them, it will be in a supplementary product. In fact, I'm betting we will see part of that cycle in MM17 (the two aforementioned ones), with a few other needed land reprints that cannot come back in standard (Grove of the Burnwillows, Horizon Canopy).
The allied painlands simply cannot be reprinted in a plane other than Dominaria (or a core set), unless they change the names of two of them. The Allied Fastlands are a stretch as well.
The more a format becomes multicolor the slower the Tango lands and Bizarro Checks become. Since one relies on basic land types, and the other relies on basic lands. Tangolands were only stupidly fast when you could make a manabase entirely out of fetchlands to always hit your basic land count by T3 every time. Meaning any nonbasic lands added to the deck decrease their effectiveness on curve.
The Worldwake manlands, especially Celestial Colonnade and Creeping Tar Pit, are simply too strong for the current standard power level. If they ever reprint them, it will be in a supplementary product. In fact, I'm betting we will see part of that cycle in MM17 (the two aforementioned ones), with a few other needed land reprints that cannot come back in standard (Grove of the Burnwillows, Horizon Canopy).
The allied painlands simply cannot be reprinted in a plane other than Dominaria (or a core set), unless they change the names of two of them. The Allied Fastlands are a stretch as well.
They could print the Worldwake Mans in a standard, it just requires a little more curation as to what decks have the power. Mostly it becomes a matter of speed, if standard ends up fairly fast Colonnade wouldn't really get a chance to do much.
I think functional reprints of the painlands wouldn't break any format, so we could see a renamed painland cycle. I'm still somewhat surprised they didn't just put all six relevant painlands into each Commander deck this year.
I've got a feeling they may not be printing an old land cycle at all. I think something like nimbus maze would not work well in a set with shard wedges, so we may see something entirely new.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
If the Amonkhet lands need to be slow, they could be ETBT tweaks of Horizon Canopy with a template like this:
ETBT
T: Add M or N to your mana pool.
MN, T, Sacrifice: Draw a card.
Of course, they might as well be cycling lands at that point.
New Filters would be neat. I don't know the chances of seeing an enemy counterpart to the old Skycloud Expanse cycle, but Filter Reprints would count as slow duals while not being useless on turn 1, especially handy with Kaladesh's colorless artifacts around.
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MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
I would like to see fetches in another set like conspiracy, with a normal sized print run but not standard legal. I think mono colored decks should be rewarded for going mono colored and dual colored decks pretty easy but you really have to work for 3 color decks, and you get punished for it in mana variance.
Fetch lands on their own are decent duals, playable but not spectacular. Some people overvalue the deck thinning aspect but it really is negligible. They only become degenerate when fetchable dual lands are available.
Delirium?
I wouldn't say Delirium makes fetches degenerate really. Slightly better perhaps? I don't play Standard but none of the Delirium cards really seem powerful enough to say that "fetches as Delirium enabler" is a particularly noteworthy aspect of them.
I can't wait for the melt when it turns out WOTC accidentally put fetchlands and battle lands in Standard at the same time again because they expected BFZ to rotate out with Amonkhet and now it's not
I can't wait for the melt when it turns out WOTC accidentally put fetchlands and battle lands in Standard at the same time again because they expected BFZ to rotate out with Amonkhet and now it's not
I'm pretty confident after some of the discussions on the matter and looking at the land cycles, that we wont be seeing the fetches in Amonket. It's more likely to appear in Atlazan that will be coming out afterwards. I think it makes a bit more sense doing it in the fall set anyway as they will need a lot of these lands in circulation to get the prices to crash down to earth: Especially given what scalding tarn has gotten to.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
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1) Shocklands are out, Battle lands are in. Given the reprinting of fetches in Kahns block and the battle lands R&D seem comfortable with the fetches. It's the dual typed lands that are an issue. Giving someone the power to basically bolt themselves in the face for any color their deck needs without tempo loss has proven disastrous in Modern. Not to mention the lack of any ties to basic lands also gave tri-color and even quad color decks too much free reign. The only thing keeping these decks under control are heavy handed policing cards like Blood Moon.
2) Fast lands are here to stay, and may the gods have mercy on us all. The Shadow Lands are a much better design to be frank and I'd prefer to see Shadow Lands stay in whatever new eternal format Wizards comes up with as they encourage deck building with fewer color splashes to maintain consistency. Being detached from such issues even at lower mana costs is a problem.
3) Enemy fetch lands are definitely on the reprint block. If we got one set, they will print the other set. The question is just where in the world they will do so after Kahn's block. Then again, the issue with Kahn's block wasn't the fetch lands themselves, but making the multi-mode cards too powerful in combination with the mana fixing so they could print them again in a set if they plan right.
So with that being said, the lands that seem most likely to show up in Amonket are the enemy battle land cycle, the Zendikar fetches (which everyone is praying to the high heavens for), Pain lands since those have been the harmless filler lands since times immemorial, or potentially filter lands. The Filter Lands I personally haven't taken the time to analyze yet because they are an odd group. Since they don't require basics to come into play untapped I think they may be a bad design, but they also can't tap on their own for colored mana so they are effectively a tad slower than the shock lands. Underestimating the power of these lands in a post eldrazi world could be a really bad idea, though. At least with pain lands the drazi players have to slap themselves in the face with a fish each time they need colored mana.
If there is one type of come into play untapped land that has no ties to basics that is probably good design, it's the tribal lands from Elwyn / Lorwyn. Those are great and they really should print more lands like those for other tribes as long as R&D keep tribal themes cohesive. Wow that was a lot of typing.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
WBC Eldrazi & Taxes CBW
UR Keep on Cantripin' (UR Phoenix) RU
WU Surprise! It's not UW Control! (UW Midrange) UW
BG The Rock, Straight BG
U Mono-Blue Fish U
RBW Mardu Pyromancer BWR
RG Rabble! Rabble! (GR Blood Moon Aggro) GR
Legacy
W Death & Taxes W
Ugh, yeah I just looked at the rotation again and realized we lose ALL the allied lands. They'd have to do something like they did in BFZ where we get a split of one type of land and another type. It does seem pretty likely it would have to be something like the filter lands if there is a reprint, then. Assuming they do a reprint at all and go some new direction.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
29th Standard: Allied Fetches, Enemy Pains, Allied Tangos
30th Standard: Enemy Pains, Allied Tangos, Allied Bizarro Checks
31st Standard: Allied Tangos, Allied Bizarro Checks, Enemy Fast
There's a chance that Amonkhet is a full cycle, if the set is more shard themed than just Nicky B, but technically the math would still be okay with Enemy colors if the next block is Ally colors.
Next Rotation -
Amon is Allied: Kaladesh (Enemy) | Amon (Ally) | Fall 2017 (Enemy or Ally)
Amon is Full: Kaladesh (Enemy) | Amon (Full) | Fall 2017 (Ally)
Amon is Enemy: Kaladesh (Enemy) | Amon (Enemy) | Fall 2017 (Ally)
When Amonkhet is released we'll have the allied shadow lands and enemy fast lands and wtv we get in amonkhet. So either way, allied or enemy cycle, it'll be the same thing.
Rotation has changed. Nothing rotates out with Amonkhet, while BFZ and SOI blocks will rotate with Atlazan.
During Amonkhet, we will have the Allied Shadowlands and Battlelands, the Enemy Fastlands and Manlands, and whatever Amonkhet brings. During Atlazan, only the Enemy Manlands and Amonkhet lands will survive rotation (plus whatever Atlazan brings). If we have an enemy cycle in Amonkhet, it would mean 2 enemy cycles and 0 allied cycle will survive rotation.
As for completing cycles, Shadowlands are a good possibility, in Altazan or later. Battlelands are a no-go, if they want to reprint the Enemy Fetchlands during the next 2 years.
WBC Eldrazi & Taxes CBW
UR Keep on Cantripin' (UR Phoenix) RU
WU Surprise! It's not UW Control! (UW Midrange) UW
BG The Rock, Straight BG
U Mono-Blue Fish U
RBW Mardu Pyromancer BWR
RG Rabble! Rabble! (GR Blood Moon Aggro) GR
Legacy
W Death & Taxes W
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Oh, I wasn't aware of the rotation change.
Dunes of Zairo
SHANDALAR
Innistrad - The Darkest Night
~THE RAVNICAN CONSORTIUM~
A Community Set
Commander: Allies & Adversaries
- Atlazan IF we get an Allied Cycle in Amonkhet (rotation would leave 1A:1E cycle of lands).
- When Kaladesh rotates out IF we get a full cycle in Amonkhet and IF WoTC wishes to keep the 2A:2E balance in Standard (rotation would leave 1A:2E cycles, which means an Allied cycle for balance in Atlazan).
WBC Eldrazi & Taxes CBW
UR Keep on Cantripin' (UR Phoenix) RU
WU Surprise! It's not UW Control! (UW Midrange) UW
BG The Rock, Straight BG
U Mono-Blue Fish U
RBW Mardu Pyromancer BWR
RG Rabble! Rabble! (GR Blood Moon Aggro) GR
Legacy
W Death & Taxes W
Then again, we are currently in the land of Gideon, Ally of Zendikar and Smuggler's Copter, with flash decks also taking up space. Actually, is there anything saying that Wizards wont do a full land cycle with Aether Revolt? They could easily finish up fast lands in this set since it's artifact based and then go to Amonket and print zen fetches and tri-lands.
Edit: Actually, this makes a LOT of sense. If they print the full fastland cycle now, then they can bring in slower lands in Amonket to support control and mid-range strategies. Unfortunately, that could mean anything from enemy SoI lands to Zendikar fetches. They'd also have to print a cycle of other lands to balance colors like the allied man-lands.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
If you look at the numbers in SOI block (24 Gold cards, 11 off color activations) and BFZ block (36 Gold cards, Converge, 2 5-color activations on monocolor cards) it makes sense that BFZ had more fixing than SOI, and both should have more fixing than Kaladesh (which is both artifact themed and has energy counters).
Not just Delirium. The last time fetches were legal we also had delve as a mechanic. Not to mention the free shuffle, and there are lots of cards that can take advantage of that aspect.
Fetches don't require other cards to be fantastic. All other cards do is take them from fantastic to broken.
People continue to gloss over the fact that Wizards flat out stated that fetches and fetchable duals in standard at the same time was a mistake. Do you guys really believe after making that statement they will immediately put fetches back in standard and repeat what they just said was a mistake? That is the definition of insanity.
For those of you who think that fetches are going to be in Amonkhet, I have a some ocean front property in Arizona for you!
If they aren't in Amonket they will be in the next fall set. If anything, they want to get something in there to spice up the set and that sounds like something they could stick into Atlazan or whatever it is. At the same time, it seems like we are going towards Shards again.
The thing is Amonket is going to be the spring set, which generally doesn't do as well as the fall set. They will definitely want something in that set to sell packs and doing treasure chest mythic prints alone aren't going to cut it. If not scalding tarns and salt flats, what will be there? They could try filter lands, but those seem more fantasy driven than egyptian themed so it would have to be the older cycle. We'll probably see new lands of some kind, maybe the full cycle of Nimbus maze or Grove of the Burnwillows? The first sounds more likely than the second since it basically works with the dual lands already in BFZ and lets them reprint the enemy battlelands later. Not particularly exciting but still.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
Fetchlands aren't slow, at least not by the most common definition I have seen used by R&D: Being able to produce coloured mana of one of two colours on turn one.
Currently, standard has (at rare):
Slow allied lands: Canopy Vista-cycle
Slow enemy lands: Shambling vent-cycle
---
Fast allied lands: Choked Estuary-cycle
Fast enemy lands:Spirebluff Canal-cycle
The cycles above the ---line would have rotated with Amonkhet under the old rotation-schedule. It is likely that the lands of Amonkhet was designed with this structure in mind, but it is possible that they could have the chance to remove/replace the rare lands late in development. If not for the change in rotation, I would have guessed that Aether Revolt + Amonkhet block together have ten slow duals.
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
It's entirely possible they'll be in the fall 2017, 2018, or 2019 set. At that point, it's just conjecture. It's also possible that Wizards will sit on it for several more years. The massive amount of shuffling that fetches put in the format actually slows down games dramatically and was viewed as a negative in the tournament scene. That won't deter Wizards indefinitely, but is certainly something they will think about prior to reprint.
I think we're far more likely to see reprints of the allied fast lands or pain lands, Odyssey or Lorywn filter lands before we see a reprint of the Future sight lands. Grove of the Burnwillows and Horizon Canopy border on broken cards. Grove in particular enables busted combos. When a card's downside isn't really a downside, that makes for bad design. I'd actually be surprised if that one ever gets reprinted in a standard legal set again.
Personally, I have my money on allied pain lands or Worldwake man lands being reprinted the next time we see allied lands (which should happen in the fall 2017 set). If Wizards continues their path of allied lands in one set and enemy lands in the following, we could see enemy tango lands in the spring 2018 set.
Anyways, I don't have any insider information, just more thinking about what I'd do if I were Wizards considering the tournament scene, profitability, and other factors.
The allied painlands simply cannot be reprinted in a plane other than Dominaria (or a core set), unless they change the names of two of them. The Allied Fastlands are a stretch as well.
WBC Eldrazi & Taxes CBW
UR Keep on Cantripin' (UR Phoenix) RU
WU Surprise! It's not UW Control! (UW Midrange) UW
BG The Rock, Straight BG
U Mono-Blue Fish U
RBW Mardu Pyromancer BWR
RG Rabble! Rabble! (GR Blood Moon Aggro) GR
Legacy
W Death & Taxes W
They could print the Worldwake Mans in a standard, it just requires a little more curation as to what decks have the power. Mostly it becomes a matter of speed, if standard ends up fairly fast Colonnade wouldn't really get a chance to do much.
I think functional reprints of the painlands wouldn't break any format, so we could see a renamed painland cycle. I'm still somewhat surprised they didn't just put all six relevant painlands into each Commander deck this year.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
ETBT
T: Add M or N to your mana pool.
MN, T, Sacrifice: Draw a card.
Of course, they might as well be cycling lands at that point.
New Filters would be neat. I don't know the chances of seeing an enemy counterpart to the old Skycloud Expanse cycle, but Filter Reprints would count as slow duals while not being useless on turn 1, especially handy with Kaladesh's colorless artifacts around.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
I wouldn't say Delirium makes fetches degenerate really. Slightly better perhaps? I don't play Standard but none of the Delirium cards really seem powerful enough to say that "fetches as Delirium enabler" is a particularly noteworthy aspect of them.
GW ~ Angels ~ WG
Modern:
RBW ~ Shadowmancer ~ WBR
Legacy:
BUG ~ Shadow Delver ~ GUB
I'm pretty confident after some of the discussions on the matter and looking at the land cycles, that we wont be seeing the fetches in Amonket. It's more likely to appear in Atlazan that will be coming out afterwards. I think it makes a bit more sense doing it in the fall set anyway as they will need a lot of these lands in circulation to get the prices to crash down to earth: Especially given what scalding tarn has gotten to.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!