Lorwyn has a very distinct flavor. It could definitely work with Shadowmoor as a 2 set block now. It's a weird thing with MTG; a large, silent majority may not be the biggest fan of a block or mechanic, but the people who liked it, really do love it. Unfortunately, we will probably not see Lorwyn in the near future; they will return to planes that fared better with that silent majority, like Ravnica or Theros (ewwwwwwww).
So, logging in after years of moslty lurking, but I absolutely love Lorwyn.
If it had to be done again though, it would need to have a twist. And the twist is obvious: Humans have come. A war between the different factions influenced by probably artificial Human or Phyrexian technology. Maybe too similar to Scars and new Innistrad, but then again, they tend to repeat this "invasion" theme over and over and over in this freaking game. It could work.
I think I've learned to treat Magic cards like baseball cards: keep 'em in a binder in numerical order, don't play with 'em, try to finish the set and just keep my head down.
Lorowyn would be a good revisit. There were some great cards that need reprints or just updated for the times. I think another good revisit would be alara. There was one block and that was it. I also think they should go through each of the big planeswalkers original planes. They're doing Chandra's home kaladesh. They should do one for jace, liliana, nissa, and Gideon. They would all bring new and interesting mechanics to the game. They touched on all of them in origins but I think with their popularity they should all have their own block. Being able to play them all in standard wouldn't happen but it's still a thought. I also think we should revisit mercadia or the stronghold. And just for fun another "un" set.
I don't know, I just don't see how these things of the original set(s) affect "Returns to"s at all:
Draft environment
Strong/eternal-playable cards
Overall power level
Draft environment and power level can be vastly different in the new set, there is nothing forcing them to use the same mechanics (see RTR and SOI) or aiming to hit the same power level again. Reprints in "Return sets" don't seem to happen very often either (or have you seen a new Snapcaster/LotV/Cavern of Souls/Craterhoof/Dark Confidant/etc lately?).
Furthermore, a lot of sets which were popular just happened to have a lot of strong cards and/or a fun draft environment. Like I said, two things that mean absolutely nothing for the return set. On the other hand, sets became unpopular when they had a low power level or are connected to a bad standard experience. Again, nothing the Return set has to repeat.
I guess what I am trying to say is: Why focus on the executing of the original set when deciding whether a return is a good idea or not? Why not look at things which can/should/must be transferred to the return instead?
World "quality" and flavor
Design space (for stories, conflicts and of course also cards) within the given world
Uniqueness of the world and its inhabitants
I think these are way better aspects to focus on when thinking about a return. And in these Kamigawa and Lorwyn both look really decent to me. Post-conflux Alara however seems rather unfocused (no clearly differentiated clans/guilds/shards/tribes/whatever), while dragon world of Tarkir feels very one-dimensional and boring to me.
In the end I really hope that Wizards realizes the above and doesn't fear the negative feedback they will likely receive when announcing a "Return to Kamigawa" or similar. When the set plays good everyone will be happy, when it doesn't people will complain. Doesn't matter if it's Ravinca, Lorwyn or Innistrad.
As others have said the Scarecrows hint at a return next spring (that or they're just there as artifact synergy with Kaladesh, but why make them all Scarecrows then?)
There were a handful of Scarecrows in origin Innistrad. They were meant to be a tribe of their own, but we're cut for space issues. They proved popular enough to warrant a few more in the return to INN.
I don't remember there being that many of them the first time around - a quick Gatherer search confirms that there was just one. Interesting...
I don't think Lorwyn the plane was unpopular, I think it was U/B fae that made the BLOCK unpopular, not necessarily the plane it took place on. Lotsa bad memories for a lot of people during that time, but I'm not convinced it was the storyline or setting/plane that was the problem with Lorwyn. I loved the fairytale/fantasy theme personally.
A simple fix to Faeries came out in the next block as well, which is something I'm sure they would add to a return to Lorwyn set if they ever decided to return. Volcanic Fallout!
I think they could really go far with a Lorwyn set. Tribal has been redesigned, and we've been given a taste of it with Innistrad. I think in a Lorwyn return set they could further develop the tribes and themes of tribal without necessarily making tribal a card type. From what I have gathered from talking to players is that they like tribal decks (not the card type but the creature types) because its intuitive and fun. Even if you don't want to play tribal, you can just play your good ol color pair decks that show up in each block!
Looking at this article http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/magic-story/magic-origins-new-era-2015-06-03 there are 2 'Origin" planes we have not been to. The ones that have not been visited in a regular set are Kaladesh and Vryn. Looking at both origin stories, they seem to be possibly artifact/spell heavy. With the switch to more creature based game play, it would make sense to go back to Lorwyn, or Alara for that matter to break them up. That leaves Regatha, the second Chandra plane as the only other one not visited. I doubt they would run three new planes in a row like that, but then again we did just go through two revisit sets.
Or they could keep down the Superfriends path and do another Eldrazi based set, as the gang look for the Eldrazi home plane. Personally, I hope this one doesn't happen.
A Return to Lorwyn/Shadowmoor (more so the first, but if they keep the Aurora gone I'd be fine with both effectively) would be really nice. I think it has a lot of potential really, and would love to see it happen. Unfortunately I think that they are very unlikely to do it, if just because at this stage I can't really imagine what would justify them going out to Lorwyn. It's not exactly a hotbed of activity most of the time.
Not sure if it would really count as a Return, but could see Shandalar at some point I suppose. But it just seems like a lot of the old planes aren't popular enough to return to, which is rather disappointing.
Doubtful. They don't like tribal blocks much at all, and there aren't humans there just the hobbit like kithkin. Set wasn't well received either. The limited was poor as hell, same with shadowmoor. There are a lot of other planes they would return to before lorwyn as well like dominaria, which has been long overdue with time spiral being the last block to be there 10 long years ago.
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I am probably in the minority but i would like to see "return to ice age" or at least some set that runs with the snow mechanic.
I certainly wouldn't mind a snow plane.
I always enjoyed the tension in drafting snow lands in limited. Coldsnap in general wasn't a great draft set (thanks ripple) But i think the snow sub-type was great. Even cards like Skred and scrying sheets got some action. And finally they could reprint Mishra's Bauble as the value of that card is out of control (cant believe i am typing this)
I don't know, I just don't see how these things of the original set(s) affect "Returns to"s at all:
Draft environment
Strong/eternal-playable cards
Overall power level
Draft environment and power level can be vastly different in the new set, there is nothing forcing them to use the same mechanics (see RTR and SOI) or aiming to hit the same power level again. Reprints in "Return sets" don't seem to happen very often either (or have you seen a new Snapcaster/LotV/Cavern of Souls/Craterhoof/Dark Confidant/etc lately?).
Furthermore, a lot of sets which were popular just happened to have a lot of strong cards and/or a fun draft environment. Like I said, two things that mean absolutely nothing for the return set. On the other hand, sets became unpopular when they had a low power level or are connected to a bad standard experience. Again, nothing the Return set has to repeat.
I guess what I am trying to say is: Why focus on the executing of the original set when deciding whether a return is a good idea or not? Why not look at things which can/should/must be transferred to the return instead?
World "quality" and flavor
Design space (for stories, conflicts and of course also cards) within the given world
Uniqueness of the world and its inhabitants
I think these are way better aspects to focus on when thinking about a return. And in these Kamigawa and Lorwyn both look really decent to me. Post-conflux Alara however seems rather unfocused (no clearly differentiated clans/guilds/shards/tribes/whatever), while dragon world of Tarkir feels very one-dimensional and boring to me.
In the end I really hope that Wizards realizes the above and doesn't fear the negative feedback they will likely receive when announcing a "Return to Kamigawa" or similar. When the set plays good everyone will be happy, when it doesn't people will complain. Doesn't matter if it's Ravinca, Lorwyn or Innistrad.
Its really funny because the reasons you pose for returning are some of the exact reasons they used to decide whether or not to return to a plane. The problem is that the planes they say are unpopular are based on their market research and it isn't just about card strength. Kamigawa's world was very interesting but it was far too unique, a vast majority of the players couldn't even pronounce the names of their cards, I personally love Kamigawa it was by far my favorite plane but I can step back and see why the majority doesn't like it. They don't like it for the same reason I like it, it is unreasonably close to the source material. Lorwyn has a similar but different problem, they shook it up enough so that people who weren't excessively familiar with the source weren't disinterested with every bit but it was simply too happy and bright for what people expect of Magic. Lorwyn is the only block I missed sense starting in Odyssey but looking back it is obvious why it is unpopular. So why should Wizards go back to these places? To do them right? What would that entail? For Kamigawa it would be a more western understanding of Japanese culture and that could ruin what I love about Kamigawa, so why bother calling it Kamigawa, why not make it a new plane that would probably still be very interesting. The same for Lorwyn, to make it more popular they would have to reign in the bright and goofyness of the tribes and that would ruin its old identity. It doesn't make sense for them to do something that all of their data says was unpopular the last time they did it, so if they returned to those settings they would change them to be more inline with what they think people will want from them.
The more I think about it the more I like the idea of humans being introduced into Lorwyn. A human settling/invasion of the plane could actually be an interesting twist where humans are the big bad of the block. The elves of the plane are extremely racist and wouldn't take too kindly to competition for their spot in the food chain, leading to a race war. This last block has shown that WOTC's not afraid to make fundamental changes to even their most popular planes for the sake of storytelling(lol).
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Where did you get this info? I know MARO has a hate-on for Lorwyn for some absurd reason, but pretty well everyone i talked to enjoys the set.
MARO is weird like that. Another disliked block of his was Guildpact; Considered by most as one of the greats Blocks ever made, Mark said it wasn't his best due to the number of unpopular mechanics, going on to call some mechanics 'mistakes'(Like Dredge and Haunt).
Where did you get this info? I know MARO has a hate-on for Lorwyn for some absurd reason, but pretty well everyone i talked to enjoys the set.
MARO is weird like that. Another disliked block of his was Guildpact; Considered by most as one of the greats Blocks ever made, Mark said it wasn't his best due to the number of unpopular mechanics, going on to call some mechanics 'mistakes'(Like Dredge and Haunt).
Something can be loved and still considered a mistake by it's creator. Especially if the aspects that people love aren't necessarily related to the aspects that people dislike. If everyone loved the flavor of Ravnica and some (not all) of the mechanics it could still be a great success, but the mechanics could definitely prevent it from being his "best" set.
Also I think he's said Ravnica as a Block overall is strong, Guildpact as a set being weak doesn't mean much if he still considers Ravnica in his top two best sets.
Even if they don't reprint some of the old cards, new versions of them would be nice. How many different printings of jace and Liliana are there now? I just counted 7 different jace printings and including the emn lili there are 5 different printings of her. I think a new garruk and a new ajani would be nice for one reason. Neither of them has been a major player for some time. Ajani really hasn't had much impact outside of core sets and garruk has the same issue. There's only been one printing of him in a regular set. He had one commander printing and the rest were core sets. Ajani was in one regular set and a bunch of core sets. Let's get a good version of both of them. Those are the 2 I brought up because the other planeswalkers from the set were Chandra whose had a bunch of printings and is going to get another one this fall/winter when kaladesh drops and then you had jace and Liliana.
What is all this about humans needing to be in every setting now? What a ridiculous rule. Lack of humans was one of the reasons I enjoyed Lorwyn block. Sounds like either another rule stemming from either a corporate executive's focus group testing or Maro's weird opinions he likes to impose on everyone.
As others have said the Scarecrows hint at a return next spring (that or they're just there as artifact synergy with Kaladesh, but why make them all Scarecrows then?)
There were a handful of Scarecrows in origin Innistrad. They were meant to be a tribe of their own, but we're cut for space issues. They proved popular enough to warrant a few more in the return to INN.
I don't remember there being that many of them the first time around - a quick Gatherer search confirms that there was just one. Interesting...
Alara maybe.
Dominaria maybe - it's a plane that Wizards wants us to forget while at the same time appropriating cards from that area for their supplemental products.
Theros no. Way too soon, and besides, it was such a boring block to play through.
Tarkir no. Again, too soon - we JUST got done leaving it.
New Phyrexia and Ravnica would be our third trip each. No chance of that.
Lorwyn would be nice, but since Wizards has said they want to weaken the power of tribal decks, I don't think it's likely to happen.
Original Innistrad to now was 6 blocks (Innistrad->Rav 2->Theros->Tarkir->Zendikar 2->Innistrad 2). Blocks are now half a year instead of a full year, so if we maintain a similar number of blocks between the last time we saw a plane and its return, we could see Theros in the very next return - the block after Kaladesh (Theros>-Tarkir->Zendikar 2->Innistrad 2->Kaladesh->Theros 2). We could see Return to Return to Ravnica with a 7 block separation in that same slot. Mirrodin would be 8.
If Wizards keeps resting on their laurels they're going to crush them, literally.
I'd almost they rather make unpopular new planes with absurd or unusable cards rather than draw a circle, put in what has sold well, and discard or ignore everything else. That's a horrible business model, and it's one that will do them a lot of harm in the long run, once enough players realize how limited and unimaginative the company is being.
Would you continue to play the game if the blocks came and went like this:
Innistrad
Theros
Ravnica
Mirrodin
Innistrad
Theros
Ravnica
Mirrodin
and so on and so forth? If you just kept revisiting the same planes, knowing the same cards and the same patterns of play would just keep coming back, no variation, no deviation, no imagination, nothing new, ever again?
I played RTR because I didn't get to experience the first Ravnica block, and it wasn't bad - each guild got a mechanic and I liked a few of them a lot. But there's only so much space you have for something like that - 10 guilds, and every time you come back to Ravnica you have to design ten new mechanics, each uniquely branded to the guild it represents? They wouldn't be able to keep that up for long.
What is all this about humans needing to be in every setting now? What a ridiculous rule. Lack of humans was one of the reasons I enjoyed Lorwyn block. Sounds like either another rule stemming from either a corporate executive's focus group testing or Maro's weird opinions he likes to impose on everyone.
Personally I find it more difficult to relate to non-human characters than human ones. I'd imagine that would apply to most people, a conclusion I arrived at without a focus group. Either way, the idea of (non-planeswalker) humans on Lorwyn is unlikely and no cause for alarm.
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What is all this about humans needing to be in every setting now? What a ridiculous rule. Lack of humans was one of the reasons I enjoyed Lorwyn block. Sounds like either another rule stemming from either a corporate executive's focus group testing or Maro's weird opinions he likes to impose on everyone.
Personally I find it more difficult to relate to non-human characters than human ones. I'd imagine that would apply to most people, a conclusion I arrived at without a focus group. Either way, the idea of (non-planeswalker) humans on Lorwyn is unlikely and no cause for alarm.
What difference does it make when the only meaningful characters these days are planeswalkers? Can you really relate to the human rabble on Tarkir or Zendikar any more than the Kithkin or Elves on Lorwyn?
If it had to be done again though, it would need to have a twist. And the twist is obvious: Humans have come. A war between the different factions influenced by probably artificial Human or Phyrexian technology. Maybe too similar to Scars and new Innistrad, but then again, they tend to repeat this "invasion" theme over and over and over in this freaking game. It could work.
Furthermore, a lot of sets which were popular just happened to have a lot of strong cards and/or a fun draft environment. Like I said, two things that mean absolutely nothing for the return set. On the other hand, sets became unpopular when they had a low power level or are connected to a bad standard experience. Again, nothing the Return set has to repeat.
I guess what I am trying to say is: Why focus on the executing of the original set when deciding whether a return is a good idea or not? Why not look at things which can/should/must be transferred to the return instead?
In the end I really hope that Wizards realizes the above and doesn't fear the negative feedback they will likely receive when announcing a "Return to Kamigawa" or similar. When the set plays good everyone will be happy, when it doesn't people will complain. Doesn't matter if it's Ravinca, Lorwyn or Innistrad.
I don't remember there being that many of them the first time around - a quick Gatherer search confirms that there was just one. Interesting...
Oh ho ho. They don't reprint great cards in Standard legal sets any more. They need to save chase cards for their cash grab Masters sets these days.
A simple fix to Faeries came out in the next block as well, which is something I'm sure they would add to a return to Lorwyn set if they ever decided to return. Volcanic Fallout!
I think they could really go far with a Lorwyn set. Tribal has been redesigned, and we've been given a taste of it with Innistrad. I think in a Lorwyn return set they could further develop the tribes and themes of tribal without necessarily making tribal a card type. From what I have gathered from talking to players is that they like tribal decks (not the card type but the creature types) because its intuitive and fun. Even if you don't want to play tribal, you can just play your good ol color pair decks that show up in each block!
Dunes of Zairo
SHANDALAR
Innistrad - The Darkest Night
~THE RAVNICAN CONSORTIUM~
A Community Set
Commander: Allies & Adversaries
Or they could keep down the Superfriends path and do another Eldrazi based set, as the gang look for the Eldrazi home plane. Personally, I hope this one doesn't happen.
Not sure if it would really count as a Return, but could see Shandalar at some point I suppose. But it just seems like a lot of the old planes aren't popular enough to return to, which is rather disappointing.
Currently Playing:
Retired
I certainly wouldn't mind a snow plane.
none
Modern
UBG B/U/G control
BBB MBC
WUR Control
WWW Prison
RRR Goblins
Legacy
BBB Pox
UBG B/U/G Control
UWU StoneBlade
UW Miracle Control
I always enjoyed the tension in drafting snow lands in limited. Coldsnap in general wasn't a great draft set (thanks ripple) But i think the snow sub-type was great. Even cards like Skred and scrying sheets got some action. And finally they could reprint Mishra's Bauble as the value of that card is out of control (cant believe i am typing this)
In Progress
GBIshkanah, Grafwidow ~ BWGRTymna the Weaver & Tana, the Bloodsower ~ UGRashmi, Eternities Crafter ~ RGAtarka, World Render
Currently Playing:
Retired
MARO is weird like that. Another disliked block of his was Guildpact; Considered by most as one of the greats Blocks ever made, Mark said it wasn't his best due to the number of unpopular mechanics, going on to call some mechanics 'mistakes'(Like Dredge and Haunt).
Something can be loved and still considered a mistake by it's creator. Especially if the aspects that people love aren't necessarily related to the aspects that people dislike. If everyone loved the flavor of Ravnica and some (not all) of the mechanics it could still be a great success, but the mechanics could definitely prevent it from being his "best" set.
Also I think he's said Ravnica as a Block overall is strong, Guildpact as a set being weak doesn't mean much if he still considers Ravnica in his top two best sets.
One-Eyed Scarecrow was supposed to have some buddies, but there wasn't room. This carried over into SOI. http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/142475788698/reading-your-blog-it-sounded-like-scarecrows-may
If Wizards keeps resting on their laurels they're going to crush them, literally.
I'd almost they rather make unpopular new planes with absurd or unusable cards rather than draw a circle, put in what has sold well, and discard or ignore everything else. That's a horrible business model, and it's one that will do them a lot of harm in the long run, once enough players realize how limited and unimaginative the company is being.
Would you continue to play the game if the blocks came and went like this:
Innistrad
Theros
Ravnica
Mirrodin
Innistrad
Theros
Ravnica
Mirrodin
and so on and so forth? If you just kept revisiting the same planes, knowing the same cards and the same patterns of play would just keep coming back, no variation, no deviation, no imagination, nothing new, ever again?
I played RTR because I didn't get to experience the first Ravnica block, and it wasn't bad - each guild got a mechanic and I liked a few of them a lot. But there's only so much space you have for something like that - 10 guilds, and every time you come back to Ravnica you have to design ten new mechanics, each uniquely branded to the guild it represents? They wouldn't be able to keep that up for long.
Personally I find it more difficult to relate to non-human characters than human ones. I'd imagine that would apply to most people, a conclusion I arrived at without a focus group. Either way, the idea of (non-planeswalker) humans on Lorwyn is unlikely and no cause for alarm.
What difference does it make when the only meaningful characters these days are planeswalkers? Can you really relate to the human rabble on Tarkir or Zendikar any more than the Kithkin or Elves on Lorwyn?