Keep in mind that the Great Aurora, which is a big part of what made Lorwyn unique, is gone. Now it's basically just another plane.
I completely disagree. At the end of Eventide, Lorwyn and Shadowmoor fused together and we know almost nothing about the resulting plane. The door is open to unlimited possibilities. Now granted, I don't really trust current Magic Creative to do a particularly good job with it given their recent track record. The potential is absolutely there, however.
Keep in mind that the Great Aurora, which is a big part of what made Lorwyn unique, is gone. Now it's basically just another plane.
I completely disagree. At the end of Eventide, Lorwyn and Shadowmoor fused together and we know almost nothing about the resulting plane. The door is open to unlimited possibilities. Now granted, I don't really trust current Magic Creative to do a particularly good job with it given their recent track record. The potential is absolutely there, however.
If they fused, it would certainly be a confusing mess of a place: Esper Merfolk, Bant Kithkin, Naya Giants, Jund Goblins, Abzan Elves...plus little fringe tribes like Fae and Boggles and Treefolk.
If they fused, it would certainly be a confusing mess of a place: Esper Merfolk, Bant Kithkin, Naya Giants, Jund Goblins, Abzan Elves...plus little fringe tribes like Fae and Boggles and Treefolk.
Considering that the color pair shift was one of the more criticized decisions, I think they would rectify that in the return so Kithkin are GW, Merrows are WU, etc. Faeries were hardly a fringe tribe during Lorwyn-Shadowmoor.
If they were to return to Lorwyn, I think they would take advantage of the potential for a day/night theme to implement more DFCs, putting a particular focus on how the tribes' natures change from day to night. They might make use of the Werewolf trigger to keep consistent.
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MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Every set since Lorwyn has been before it chronologically. We are kind of 'catching up' to it in terms of story. If they did do a 'return' so soon it would actually be a prequel rather than a sequel (which might be kind of cool)
Personally - I absolutely hated Lorwyn, but Shadowmoor/Eventide are my favourite 2 sets above all others (even above Ravnica, which I also love). I want to return to Shadowmoor, not Lorwyn.
I stand by my hypothesis - the next blocks are going to be Kaladesh, Maragunda, Vryn, and then some return set.
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Rose tint my world, keep me safe from my trouble and pain.
Lorwyn is one of the least-popular Modern planes, beating out only Kamigawa. We're more likely to see:
Alara
Dominaria
Theros
Tarkir
A second return to Mirrodin or Ravnica
Than either Lorwyn or Kamigawa.
This is completely false.
Lorwyn is understood to be a popular favorite of many and it's not a question of if we will return but when.
Lorwyn basically has a few die-hard fans because of how it basically cemented tribal influences which only existed sporadically before then. However the vast majority of players hated it for that very same reason.
I HATE Lorwyn. But I LOVE Shadowmoor. Hopefully, we return to Shadowmoor first and then to Lorwyn... or just to Shadowmoor and not to Lorwyn at all. I loves me some mass hybrid spells.
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Rose tint my world, keep me safe from my trouble and pain.
During the SD Comic-Con panel, this request came up. Mark said that they had a pseudo return to it in Origins but because their marketing department found the setting to not be so popular, there are no planned returns to Lorwyn yet. The fan base would have to really scream and shout for a return to Lorwyn before they will consider it.
I'm just hoping we hop here or Kamigawa before Ravnica 3.0
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DECKS:
Commander:
Aurelia the Warleader - Combat Tricks and Swarm
Oloro, Ageless Ascetic - Lifegain/Lifedrain Pillowfort
Trostani, Selesnya's Voice - Token Assault
Meren of Clan Nel Toth - Reanimator Value
Mizzix - Out of the Box Spellslinger
During the SD Comic-Con panel, this request came up. Mark said that they had a pseudo return to it in Origins but because their marketing department found the setting to not be so popular, there are no planned returns to Lorwyn yet. The fan base would have to really scream and shout for a return to Lorwyn before they will consider it.
If life has taught me anything, it's never trust a marketing department...
I think A return to Lorwyn is possible, but definitely the tribal aspect will be dialed down, as these are what made Lorwyn complicated. Innistrad showed a balanced tribal theme ao I think lorwyn can have a little more than that.
The tribes focused on Fae so this time the story can focus on a different tribe, like Kithkin and Tree folk.
It could be related to the Great Auroura, but it can altogether ignore jt like the original Lorwyn, with subtle hints of its occurence.
The tribal themes were pushed too hard, but they weren't what contributed to Lorwyn's complexity. All the activated abilities that could matter during combat contributed the most to complexity. There's a reason you don't see many cards like Kithkin Daggerdare nowadays.
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MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
The tribal themes were pushed too hard, but they weren't what contributed to Lorwyn's complexity.
That's only half correct. Yes, the activated abilities and on-board complexity were a major issue of Lorwyn, but once Morningtide was released the mix of race-tribal and class-tribal added an unnecessary layer of complexity to deck-building that was not well integrated into the world-building as well (and hence it was not always easy to anticipate a card's class at first glance the same way you could do for race).
Further the fact that every single card belonged to at least one of the tribes added to the complexity load. Nowadays I expect at most half of the cards to fall into the tribes with more examples of random Bird and Goat creatures for other slots the same way you get Abbey Griffin and Ambush Viper in Innistrad - belonging to neither main tribe despite plenty of options.
Lorwyn did a lot of things wrong with the implementation, but deciding to return to a block defines the setting not the implementation. Heck the same setting can even vary the theme to some degree and still be done right. Innistrad right now returned to a setting and varied its theme from general "gothic horror" to "mystery/cosmic horror" and it worked well (people felt apprehensive about more Eldrazi right now, but that's an issue of timing and also negative experiences of the previous block rather than a real fault of SoI-block).
---
While I believe Lorwyn/Shadowmoor are two distinct great settings as well as a combined setting with exciting prospects, I entirely expect to see similarly (but not identically) themed settings to show up before we see their return. That said I give the supplemental product themes some credit and wouldn't put it past them to e. g. create a four-colored ( ?) Elemental tribal commander that is themed as a Flamekin/Ashkin summoner of greater Elementals or something similarly Lorwyn themed.
Heck, I wouldn't mind them to go the Origins route for a release and e. g. make their next Planechase product actually themed around four popular planes that we are unlikely to visit in the main releases. For the moment I think such a return to Lorwyn/Shadowmoor is more likely than ever returning to the plane(s) in a block.
And I'm fine with that. As the number of high quality settings the creative team puts out increases there will be more and more options to choose from and more and more good settings will have to be pushed to the sidelines. As long as we get Magic Origins-style nods to past settings they will live. And I cannot say I dislike any of the new settings they produce enough to prefer never having explored such a place.
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
Lorwyn was Not that much idyllic as some may think... Like In The first 20 Pages of THE novel we see: Elves being killed without advise; Giants smashing bogarts; Elves killing Bogarts; A Dead Flamekin being venered like a pagan deity; A Merfolk being eaten alive...
What radically changed With Shadowmore was the personality of the races. Goblins from dumb thiefs and joyfull Killers ( like hunting dogs ) to mersiless Killers and savages; Elves went from protectors of order and haters of blindeyes to protectors of the order and life; merfolks from helpers/transport/studants to pirates thiefs lurking on rivers and other important places for travelers. Flamekins from well hearthed helpers and menssagers to rancored blight coals that Would not think twice before killing you; Giants went from brutal judges/Fighters/Slavers/hermits to brutal explosive/sleping savage;
Of course some individuals didn't changed much between the Great Aurora and some could arge about some don't being affected by it as well ( other than the ones in the novel).
I would love a return to Lorwyn They could explore the origin of Oona/Colfenor/the great aurora/ and the primal beyound. Maybe place a Walker trying to Steal the power from the Aurora or One that was affected by it. I know that the Story ended well but the "dother" could always go crazy
FOLKS you have to realize that we (heavily enfranchised/very experienced players) are only a small subset of the greater magic playerbase. It's not just Maro that ""hates"" lorwyn/shadowmor, it was the rest of magic's playerbase and fanbase. Wizards has the cold hard market research and the data says that lorwyn was extremely unpopular and they have NO reason to do something again that wasn't like at all the first time around, and no, "having a chance to do it better" is not a reason for a business like WotC to take a very very poor gamble with a lorwyn return.
same thing with kamigawa, saddly.
don't mean to sound harsh here, it's just the hard truth.
I know this is an old topic, but it catches my eyes that you posted a blog about him saying that the market showed Lowryn was unpopular... Ye, but if you read the coments of that same post almost every single person is saying that is a tragedy, cuz the set is wonderfull, and with the right balanced and mechanics is such a great plane to be in.
The flavor in those sets are amazing, and with the right balance and mechanics is one of the most loved ones. Only reason is ''hated'' by some people is cuz it was unbalanced, not because of flavor.
Soi block was liked by many. Not sure if I would use a strong word like loved but definitely liked. But it also was not very balanced. White had the majority of the power in the block. Avacyn, Thalia, Thalia's lieutenant, always watching is probably the best anthem in standard right now. Declaration in stone is one of the best removal spells in standard. Bruna and Gisela are both outrageously powered. Gryff's boon is great. Lone rider is good. Then it flips. There just wasn't the standard format power in the other colors from that block as a whole. Bfz block had a bunch of op green stuff. This block finally seems to have some balance to it. So far they've only banned one card in standard from it and it has potential to fit in any creature heavy deck. We'll see with the next set. I do think there should be some balance on the color pie but it doesn't necessarily need to happen for the set or block to be liked. looking back on the llorowyn cards it looked like a fun block. I was on a hiatus from the game then unfortunately. But I definitely wish I could get my hands on some of them for a reasonable price. Cryptic command, thoughtsieze, and gilt-leaf palace come to mind from the namesake of the block. Stuff like idyllic tutor come to mind from morningtide. I'd like to see reprints of some of those cards besides a masters set to do one of 2 things. The first being what modern masters was originally designed to do and get players into modern on a budget. I'm not like a lot of people and don't have $1000+ to drop on merfolk or affinity. And there really isn't a budget counterpart that costs less than around $300. Modern is not cheap and I'd like to see these old cards and mechanics make a comeback. Landfall did and while it wasn't extremely competitive it was a fun casual build. I also love tribal and would like to have access to potential upgrades to elves. Or maybe build a faeries deck.
I loved Lorwyn. Tribal cards. 1st planeswalkers. Guild color cards. Heck, guild cards that gave creatures +2/+2 if they were from that guild color combo. Even enemy color cards. Legends. Goblins and Elves.
Lorwyn felt like a true fantasy world. Idyllic, Celtic, very reminiscent of high fantasy with faeries, elves, etc. I do wish it had humans, which I suppose it could in a remote part or whatever if they really wanted it to. That said, I just loved how beautiful it was. And cute too - merrows and faeries pranking eachother with spells, the playful and vibrant nature of the art while delivering strong fantasy tropes. IDK it's one of the first images that come to mind when I think of the word "magic"
I don't see how it was a mistake. It made tribal decks more fun than they already are. I understand tribal decks aren't usually very competitive in a given format but they're still fun to play. Especially if there's a good lord for the creature type and some good synergies within. Elves, goblins, and merfolk are the best examples. Merfolk being the most competitive of all of them but goblins and elves are super fast and it's usually a race to try and beat them. Especially in casual kitchen table play. And if it was such a mistake the first time then why did they do it again in rise of the eldrazi? There is a couple tribal eldrazi spells out there.
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I completely disagree. At the end of Eventide, Lorwyn and Shadowmoor fused together and we know almost nothing about the resulting plane. The door is open to unlimited possibilities. Now granted, I don't really trust current Magic Creative to do a particularly good job with it given their recent track record. The potential is absolutely there, however.
If they fused, it would certainly be a confusing mess of a place: Esper Merfolk, Bant Kithkin, Naya Giants, Jund Goblins, Abzan Elves...plus little fringe tribes like Fae and Boggles and Treefolk.
Considering that the color pair shift was one of the more criticized decisions, I think they would rectify that in the return so Kithkin are GW, Merrows are WU, etc. Faeries were hardly a fringe tribe during Lorwyn-Shadowmoor.
If they were to return to Lorwyn, I think they would take advantage of the potential for a day/night theme to implement more DFCs, putting a particular focus on how the tribes' natures change from day to night. They might make use of the Werewolf trigger to keep consistent.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
a new elemental lord could be nice Incandescent Soulstoke
modern elf could use a new version of heritage druid
top 5 anime of all time (tv, not books because dragon ball would be first)
1. Sword art online 2. Fairy tail 3. Naruto(shipuden) 4. Bleach 5. Claymore
Personally - I absolutely hated Lorwyn, but Shadowmoor/Eventide are my favourite 2 sets above all others (even above Ravnica, which I also love). I want to return to Shadowmoor, not Lorwyn.
I stand by my hypothesis - the next blocks are going to be Kaladesh, Maragunda, Vryn, and then some return set.
This is completely false.
Lorwyn is understood to be a popular favorite of many and it's not a question of if we will return but when.
...
Okay then, if you won't take if from us - how about straight from the horse's mouth?
http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/96185955063/is-a-return-to-lorwyn-possible-the-block-was
Lorwyn basically has a few die-hard fans because of how it basically cemented tribal influences which only existed sporadically before then. However the vast majority of players hated it for that very same reason.
I HATE Lorwyn. But I LOVE Shadowmoor. Hopefully, we return to Shadowmoor first and then to Lorwyn... or just to Shadowmoor and not to Lorwyn at all. I loves me some mass hybrid spells.
Commander:
Aurelia the Warleader - Combat Tricks and Swarm
Oloro, Ageless Ascetic - Lifegain/Lifedrain Pillowfort
Trostani, Selesnya's Voice - Token Assault
Meren of Clan Nel Toth - Reanimator Value
Mizzix - Out of the Box Spellslinger
Standard:
RB Madness Vamps
Casual:
Formerly Modern Elfball
If life has taught me anything, it's never trust a marketing department...
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The tribes focused on Fae so this time the story can focus on a different tribe, like Kithkin and Tree folk.
It could be related to the Great Auroura, but it can altogether ignore jt like the original Lorwyn, with subtle hints of its occurence.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
That's only half correct. Yes, the activated abilities and on-board complexity were a major issue of Lorwyn, but once Morningtide was released the mix of race-tribal and class-tribal added an unnecessary layer of complexity to deck-building that was not well integrated into the world-building as well (and hence it was not always easy to anticipate a card's class at first glance the same way you could do for race).
Further the fact that every single card belonged to at least one of the tribes added to the complexity load. Nowadays I expect at most half of the cards to fall into the tribes with more examples of random Bird and Goat creatures for other slots the same way you get Abbey Griffin and Ambush Viper in Innistrad - belonging to neither main tribe despite plenty of options.
Lorwyn did a lot of things wrong with the implementation, but deciding to return to a block defines the setting not the implementation. Heck the same setting can even vary the theme to some degree and still be done right. Innistrad right now returned to a setting and varied its theme from general "gothic horror" to "mystery/cosmic horror" and it worked well (people felt apprehensive about more Eldrazi right now, but that's an issue of timing and also negative experiences of the previous block rather than a real fault of SoI-block).
---
While I believe Lorwyn/Shadowmoor are two distinct great settings as well as a combined setting with exciting prospects, I entirely expect to see similarly (but not identically) themed settings to show up before we see their return. That said I give the supplemental product themes some credit and wouldn't put it past them to e. g. create a four-colored ( ?) Elemental tribal commander that is themed as a Flamekin/Ashkin summoner of greater Elementals or something similarly Lorwyn themed.
Heck, I wouldn't mind them to go the Origins route for a release and e. g. make their next Planechase product actually themed around four popular planes that we are unlikely to visit in the main releases. For the moment I think such a return to Lorwyn/Shadowmoor is more likely than ever returning to the plane(s) in a block.
And I'm fine with that. As the number of high quality settings the creative team puts out increases there will be more and more options to choose from and more and more good settings will have to be pushed to the sidelines. As long as we get Magic Origins-style nods to past settings they will live. And I cannot say I dislike any of the new settings they produce enough to prefer never having explored such a place.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
What radically changed With Shadowmore was the personality of the races. Goblins from dumb thiefs and joyfull Killers ( like hunting dogs ) to mersiless Killers and savages; Elves went from protectors of order and haters of blindeyes to protectors of the order and life; merfolks from helpers/transport/studants to pirates thiefs lurking on rivers and other important places for travelers. Flamekins from well hearthed helpers and menssagers to rancored blight coals that Would not think twice before killing you; Giants went from brutal judges/Fighters/Slavers/hermits to brutal explosive/sleping savage;
Of course some individuals didn't changed much between the Great Aurora and some could arge about some don't being affected by it as well ( other than the ones in the novel).
I would love a return to Lorwyn They could explore the origin of Oona/Colfenor/the great aurora/ and the primal beyound. Maybe place a Walker trying to Steal the power from the Aurora or One that was affected by it. I know that the Story ended well but the "dother" could always go crazy
same thing with kamigawa, saddly.
don't mean to sound harsh here, it's just the hard truth.
The flavor in those sets are amazing, and with the right balance and mechanics is one of the most loved ones. Only reason is ''hated'' by some people is cuz it was unbalanced, not because of flavor.
And to sell u need 2 things, flavor and balance.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
RGU Yasova UGR
BU Skeleton Ship UB
U Heidar U
U Baral U
R Kari Zev R