At this point, Liliana needs to Entomb a creature. We are overdue for a Black walker to start bolstering reanimation strategies with this kind of ability.
At this point, Liliana needs to Entomb a creature. We are overdue for a Black walker to start bolstering reanimation strategies with this kind of ability.
An actual ability on Liliana Vess, while supporting delirium. I like it
For an ultimate ability also long over due, a B walker should create an emblem that says "You may play creature cards from your graveyard." An example Haakon, Stromgald Scourge. This emblem would allow the player to cast creature cards from their graveyard.
Can't see them putting barter in blood on a 4 mana planeswalker and Rise of the Dark Realms is already the ultimate of original Liliana. I could see a blackmail effect being on her, but not as a plus as repeatable targeted discard is pretty OP.
Regardless of her abilities, I'm just hoping for modern playable... and that a couple of deck strategies can benefit from her.
She'll definitely be a zombie generator based on the trailer... maybe lots of hasty zombies? based on how she summons them and they charge... the trailer also drops the word "relentless", so I'm thinking a hint for relentless dead finally getting a chance to shine?
yeah i totally forgot about that ultimate already existing. Maybe a -6 or -7 Army of the Damned as the utlimate.
Also, of course blackmail on a plus is really good, that´s the point. Very oftently, with LotV, you would +1 first and then play thoughtseize or duress to trick your opponent into getting the best card anyways. Blackmail becomes less good when your opponent gets to pick (early on), but late game, if you have fewer cards, it just straight up wrecks you.
Liliana CMC:4
+1: Each player Entomb
-2: Coercion
-6: Put X 2/2 black Zombie creature tokens onto the battlefield, where X is the total number of creature cards in all graveyards.
3
2BB
Planeswalker - Liliana (3)
[+1] Each player sacrifices a creature.
[-X] Each opponent discards X cards.
[-5] Exile any number of cards from among all graveyards. For each creature card exiled this way, put a 2/2 black Zombie creature token onto the battlefield.
First, I feel like Liliana needs to have a discard effect. That is a defining characteristic of her & her cards. However, I would like to see it as a [-] effect this time, to make it feel different.
Again, she should have a way to protect herself, and with the [-] taken, that is moved to the [+]. Simply spamming tokens does not feel appropriate for the character, while actual removal does. Making the effect symmetrical was the only reasonable way to make removal acceptable as a [+] without increasing the casting cost to unreasonable levels. While it does remove your opponents attackers, it removes only their least effective one while also removing a blocker on your side. Nonetheless, having a removal effect with the intrinsic repeat-ability of a [+] is very strong.
While undoubtedly strong, I do not believe either ability would be a problem individually, though I admit the combination of the two may become problematic. Ultimately though it is likely worth the risk (with the obvious caveat that I have not done any extensive play testing).
The 'ultimate' was designed around multiple facets. First, Liliana's apparent placement in the story, as the primary combatant against Emrakul. With Emrakul's Delirium-esque cost reduction mechanic (& presumed mechanic of her brood), along with being the cause of the Delirium in Innistrad, allowing Liliana to exile graveyards is both thematically appropriate, and mechanically relevant.
While simply making Zombie tokens is not appropriate to the character, reanimating creatures as zombies feels correct, and is the sense given when you get a zombie for each creature she exiles. This also fits into the presentation of the set trailer of the zombie hoard under her command.
Finally, the ultimate synergizes with both of her prior abilities, while providing a viable win condition.
The casting cost was chosen both to create a distinction between her & Sorin, as well as to increase the viability of the card in non-rotating formats. At CMC 5, she would still be playable in Standard, but never be playable in Legacy, and likely not Modern. Due to the iconic nature of the card type, Planeswalkers should be pushed for older formats more often.
Do you rekon we'll get the new Lili today? I think we'll get it in a Magic Story
At the end of yesterday's video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrDbp30NeZk) they said we'd hear all about Liliana next week monday. So I assume it'll be a video card reveal like Emrakul.
So sad...:)) I can't wait :))
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
GBR May the Jund'ish side of the Force be with you! GBR
I was hoping for a revlea this week but I guess we will have to wait. Wanted to throw it out there, if Lilly does get an oath card ( I hope she doesn't but if she does) is 1CMC target player discards a card at random then if a walker enters the battlefield you get a 2/2 to good? I mean it would be great but not to good right?
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
Liliana, The last Hope
2BB
+1: Each player discards a card. If you discard a creature in this way, put a 2/2 Zombie Creature Token into play.
-3: Target creature's controller sacrifices it. (might be opponent's creature)
-7: Put 50 2/2 Zombies into play.
Loyalty: 4
Ball is in the air, I'll await the sound of my "swish" on Monday.
+1: sacrifice a creature: put two 2/2 zombie tokens into play
-2: discard a card; if you do target player sacrifices a creature
-7: destroy all non-horror creatures, then put a 2/2 zombie token into the battlefield tapped for every creature in all graveyards.
loyalty: 3
the ultimate says non-horror creature to kind of fit the flavor of the story, as she is likely re-animating the corpses that were killed by the eldrazi horrors, so it wouldn't sense for her to kill the eldrazi and then re-animate them.
+2 Target opponent discards a card, then: If An opponent discards a creature card, put a 2/2 black Zombie creature token onto the battlefield with Wither (This deals damage to creatures in the form of -1/-1 counters.)
IF an opponent discards a land card, add BB to your mana pool.
IF an opponent discards a non-creature, non-land card, draw a card.
-2 emblem Zombies you control get a +1/+1
-4 Creatures your opponent control get a -1/-1 for each zombie you control.
An actual ability on Liliana Vess, while supporting delirium. I like it
something like:
Liliana 2BB
\+1/: blackmail
/-2\: Barter in blood
/-5\: Rise of the Dark Realms
|3|
I guess i´m missing the token producing ultimate... i still think it could be something else. Blackmail as a pw ability seems very powerful
A huge thanks to Argetlam and the guys at Hakai studios for this awesome banner
She'll definitely be a zombie generator based on the trailer... maybe lots of hasty zombies? based on how she summons them and they charge... the trailer also drops the word "relentless", so I'm thinking a hint for relentless dead finally getting a chance to shine?
Anyway... definitely excited for a new Lily
Also, of course blackmail on a plus is really good, that´s the point. Very oftently, with LotV, you would +1 first and then play thoughtseize or duress to trick your opponent into getting the best card anyways. Blackmail becomes less good when your opponent gets to pick (early on), but late game, if you have fewer cards, it just straight up wrecks you.
A huge thanks to Argetlam and the guys at Hakai studios for this awesome banner
+1: Each player Entomb
-2: Coercion
-6: Put X 2/2 black Zombie creature tokens onto the battlefield, where X is the total number of creature cards in all graveyards.
3
2BB
Planeswalker - Liliana (3)
[+1] Each player sacrifices a creature.
[-X] Each opponent discards X cards.
[-5] Exile any number of cards from among all graveyards. For each creature card exiled this way, put a 2/2 black Zombie creature token onto the battlefield.
First, I feel like Liliana needs to have a discard effect. That is a defining characteristic of her & her cards. However, I would like to see it as a [-] effect this time, to make it feel different.
Again, she should have a way to protect herself, and with the [-] taken, that is moved to the [+]. Simply spamming tokens does not feel appropriate for the character, while actual removal does. Making the effect symmetrical was the only reasonable way to make removal acceptable as a [+] without increasing the casting cost to unreasonable levels. While it does remove your opponents attackers, it removes only their least effective one while also removing a blocker on your side. Nonetheless, having a removal effect with the intrinsic repeat-ability of a [+] is very strong.
While undoubtedly strong, I do not believe either ability would be a problem individually, though I admit the combination of the two may become problematic. Ultimately though it is likely worth the risk (with the obvious caveat that I have not done any extensive play testing).
The 'ultimate' was designed around multiple facets. First, Liliana's apparent placement in the story, as the primary combatant against Emrakul. With Emrakul's Delirium-esque cost reduction mechanic (& presumed mechanic of her brood), along with being the cause of the Delirium in Innistrad, allowing Liliana to exile graveyards is both thematically appropriate, and mechanically relevant.
While simply making Zombie tokens is not appropriate to the character, reanimating creatures as zombies feels correct, and is the sense given when you get a zombie for each creature she exiles. This also fits into the presentation of the set trailer of the zombie hoard under her command.
Finally, the ultimate synergizes with both of her prior abilities, while providing a viable win condition.
The casting cost was chosen both to create a distinction between her & Sorin, as well as to increase the viability of the card in non-rotating formats. At CMC 5, she would still be playable in Standard, but never be playable in Legacy, and likely not Modern. Due to the iconic nature of the card type, Planeswalkers should be pushed for older formats more often.
A Dying Wish
To Rise Again
Chainer, Dementia Master
Muldrotha, the Gravetide
Atraxa, Praetors' Voice
So sad...:)) I can't wait :))
Anyway, check out the art at the end of the article here http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/magic-story/innistrads-last-hope-2016-06-29
I hope that's the art for her actual card because she looks swag as hell
Also it seems like they are really setting up for her to both be able to spam Zombies like crazy AND be able to actually kill Emrakul.
"OH GOD MY BRAIN IS EXPLOADING AT HOW BAD THE ART IS ON MY OWN CARD"
-A friend's first impression of Ancestral Recall
10/10, I tapped.
It is, I just Hope she isn't awful
That has to be my fav art for her ever, maybe even any walker....damn. Now please just be 3cmc and playable...greedy I know.
2BB
+1: Each player discards a card. If you discard a creature in this way, put a 2/2 Zombie Creature Token into play.
-3: Target creature's controller sacrifices it. (might be opponent's creature)
-7: Put 50 2/2 Zombies into play.
Loyalty: 4
Ball is in the air, I'll await the sound of my "swish" on Monday.
2BB
+1: sacrifice a creature: put two 2/2 zombie tokens into play
-2: discard a card; if you do target player sacrifices a creature
-7: destroy all non-horror creatures, then put a 2/2 zombie token into the battlefield tapped for every creature in all graveyards.
loyalty: 3
the ultimate says non-horror creature to kind of fit the flavor of the story, as she is likely re-animating the corpses that were killed by the eldrazi horrors, so it wouldn't sense for her to kill the eldrazi and then re-animate them.
2BB
+2 Target opponent discards a card, then: If An opponent discards a creature card, put a 2/2 black Zombie creature token onto the battlefield with Wither (This deals damage to creatures in the form of -1/-1 counters.)
IF an opponent discards a land card, add BB to your mana pool.
IF an opponent discards a non-creature, non-land card, draw a card.
-2 emblem Zombies you control get a +1/+1
-4 Creatures your opponent control get a -1/-1 for each zombie you control.
3 Loyalty
+1 Each player discards a card.
-1 Each player sacrifices a non-Zombie creature.
-2 You get an emblem with "At the beginning of your upkeep, put a 2/2 black Zombie creature token onto the battlefield."
Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge-Spellslinger/Storm
Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter-Tribal Vampires/Life Drain