It would be a shame to see the Eye go since it was just reprinted as an expedition, but that is a key card for Eldrazi decks. It is probably the best sol land, even though it is legendary. I could still see some form of Eldrazi decks working without the eye, they would just be slower. The collateral damage to Tron might not be the worst thing ever. I am sure Tron will adapt.
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Ban
Eye of Ugin
Eldrazi Temple Possibly Simian Spirit Guide Possibly Mox Opal Hopefully Arcbound Ravager Hopefully Cranial Plating
Unban
Nothing.
I don't see why they should unban anything when the environment hasn't even had a proper chance to settle after the previous Splinter Twin and Summer Bloom ban.
The Eldrazi Menace truly has been a menace in this sense.
It provided false validation for Splinter Twin fanboys who take the presence of an entirely new, much more broken archetype to justify the existence of Splinter Twin.
"It never got this bad with Splinter Twin!" and the absurd "If Twin was still around to keep things in check, this wouldn't have happened!"
If any real insight for the health of the modern environment has come about in the last few months in the period of modern's history . . .
. . . it's that fast mana is very dangerous and affinity was very much rushing in to fill the void left by Splinter Twin.
The field at Pro Tour Oath of the Gatewatch wasn't just dominated by Eldrazi, it was also dominated by Affinity.
I think it would be nice to see a format adapt to the absence of Eldrazi, Affinity as we know it, and a nerfed Tron (Eye of Ugin ban) and Goryo's Vengeance (Simian Spirit Guide ban)
And for anyone thinking to respond with a bunch of noise about BGx and burn, save your breath. Those archetypes are leaps and bounds more fair than everything mentioned above.
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
Land does nothjng without cheap creatures to abusem
Yall should also git gud and play more removal.
I rarely play modern but I'm pretty sure that there's not enough good land removal for the format. Either way, I'm curious how many cards will get affected this time.
There is more than enough land destruction between ghost quarter, molten rain, beast within and of course bloodmoon. Also spreading seas
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Trolling can be defined as "A art, one specifically designed to misdirect, anger, or confuse others by reporting meaningful information in a clear, coherent way."
One day I will go infinate on a token combo then drop Scramble verse and watch as the trolling begins. That day will be a good day.
I would like to see something like:
Banned: No changes.
Unbanned: Stoneforge Mystic, Bloodbraid Elf, Ancestral Vision.
Let us play the eldrazi's game.
Another thing I wouldn't mind-
Banned: Eye of Ugin
Unbanned: Stoneforge Mystic/Jace, the Wallet Sculptor/Dig Through Time/Ancestral Vision/Bloodbraid Elf/Deathrite Shaman.
One of those things. Not all.
Jace will never be unbanned and I wish people would stop even mentioning him lol. He's already proven to be a problem in modern AND cost wizards money in torniment attendance when he was legal in standard.
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Trolling can be defined as "A art, one specifically designed to misdirect, anger, or confuse others by reporting meaningful information in a clear, coherent way."
One day I will go infinate on a token combo then drop Scramble verse and watch as the trolling begins. That day will be a good day.
Eye + no other lands = 2 mana
Temple + no other lands = 2 mana
Eye + 1 land = 5 mana
Temple + 1 land = 3 mana
Eye + 2 land = 8 mana
Temple + 2 land = 4 mana
Eye + 3 land = 9 mana
Temple + 3 land = 5 mana
Eye + 4 land = 10 mana
Temple + 4 land = 6 mana
Sure Temple is better when you draw two of them, but how often is that?
I'm not really sure where you are getting your math since eye generates 0-2 mana depending on if you have an eldrazi in hand. It's only a problem once you have the ability to pay for multiple color/colorless costs in a turn. Eye itself is as much. Liability as it is a boon in eldrazi right now since it does not actually generate colorless mana and thus can't cast thoughtnots and amashers by itself or paired with basics.
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Trolling can be defined as "A art, one specifically designed to misdirect, anger, or confuse others by reporting meaningful information in a clear, coherent way."
One day I will go infinate on a token combo then drop Scramble verse and watch as the trolling begins. That day will be a good day.
Eye is 2. With Urborg its 4 mana, with Temple its 4 mana, but only for eldrazi spells. Remember that.
It goes, I go*. Making cards unplayable devalues them way worse more than overprinting them. Overprinting them only makes it hard for investors to gain value longterm, players can get copies to play with, which is good.
This "guy" has fair points, and some have been restated here, but its still isnt fair to ban a legendary mythic rare in my eyes, when an uncommon non-legendary does damn near the same thing. http://blog.mtgprice.com/2016/03/30/why-eye-of-ugin-is-the-ban/
IS there not a Restricted list?
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Eye + no other lands = 2 mana
Temple + no other lands = 2 mana
Eye + 1 land = 5 mana
Temple + 1 land = 3 mana
Eye + 2 land = 8 mana
Temple + 2 land = 4 mana
Eye + 3 land = 9 mana
Temple + 3 land = 5 mana
Eye + 4 land = 10 mana
Temple + 4 land = 6 mana
Sure Temple is better when you draw two of them, but how often is that?
Eye also:
Makes it very unlikely to open up Chalice at 1 turn 1 (2 SSG is unlikely)
Doesn't open up Dismember
Is an automull with 2 in the opener
Doesn't allow manland activation
Can never tap for diamond mana
There are plenty of drawbacks to Eye that are a more common occurrence, but everyone likes to twist their panties around their nards and yell "LOOOOOOOOOOOL 4 Mimic opener with an Eye YOU LOSE MOTHER ****ER!!!111" I'm pretty sure there's another deck in the format with several colorless creatures that can dump a lot on the board from their opening hand.
Pure speculation of course... I think Eye of Ugin is the best one to ban as it is the cause of explosive plays.
Design wise, it will also prevent cheap eldrazi from being created for future sets.
They printed Eye of Ugin & Eldrazi Temple 6 years ago. That didn't stop them from making a 2 drop, and an X cost critter, followed by decent 4 and 5 cost guys.
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Deathrite Shaman is one of, if not the most warping cards printed in the last five years and far FAR too powerful for Modern. DRS was the chief cause of Jund being almost as warping as Eldrazi before it got the axe.
The card definitely was a snap 4-of in every GBx shell but that's less telling about its power or meta implications than it is about how few playable one drops there are in those colors. Thought exercise; think of a green or black 1-drop that isn't a mana dork or a discard spell that a fair midrange deck would want to play?
Yeah.
(I can come up with Oath of Nissa, maybe - and that's a very recent addition.)
Jund, or indeed GB(x) in totality, was never anywhere close to as warping as the Eldrazi currently are. Yes, it was a large part of the meta (though not nearly as large as the Eldrazi) at the time but ultimately the deck never had the oppressive nature of the current Eldrazi metagame. No one ever conceded to Jund due to deck choice alone, even the "good" matchups of Twin and the like were more like 55% in your favor and the bad ones were still abysmal.
Anyway, my argument is that Modern needsDeathrite Shaman. It's the perfect gatekeeper for the format.
It fights Tarmogoyf.
It fights Snapcaster Mage and Jace, Telepath Unbound.
It fights Burn and many other linear aggression strategies.
It fights Storm, Living End, Gifts Ungiven, Goryo's Vengeance and any number of other fringe, not-so-fringe or graveyard-based strategies from the maindeck.
It is, best-case, a 10 turn clock which requires continuous mana investment.
It dies to every removal spell in the format.
Frankly, if you have trouble with Deathrite Shaman you're likely playing some kind of linear strategy that refuses to interact with your opponent, rely exclusively on the graveyard to win or both. In either case representing the exact kind of decks we need to see a lot less of.
I'm of the opinion the banning the card in the first place was a huge mistake as it opened up for linear strategies in a way that was probably as bad, or even worse, than the Twin ban (which, ultimately, I agreed with).
I'd be more loathe to unban Bloodbraid Elf than Deathrithe Shaman, not necessarily due to power level but rather because the former has a more problematic design. Free spells, along with fast mana, is one of those things than just shouldn't exist in Modern and while I can't snap off a clearly broken use of the card it's not hard imagining deck builds were the card ends up a stupid feel-bad once again.
I respect your opinion but I completely disagree.
Deathrite was being used in burn decks even.
It fights goyf? While it is true, it often was played along with tarmogoyf.
I don't think the such a versatile card is less op than snapcaster mage or goblin guide. Snapcaster does provide value and can save you some games but ultimately it is much more consequential than deathrite. And goblin guide was never a problem. Burn, while being a good deck, was never a problem in modern.
I have to disagree with the idea that fast mana, as in a one time 1 mana boost is bad for the player experience. In my opinion the fast combo decks that they enable are absolutely vital to any healthy format.
And why is that?
Because, diversity and stuff...
i may not like losing to a quick Griselbrand, but i'd sure as hell stick up for the guy who wants to try and make that deck work.
magic is full of interesting cards that have fun and worthwhile interactions with each other.
without that "combo" nature, the game just becomes an exercise in jamming the best unrelated cards together in a "Junk" style midrange nonsense way. that's a legit strategy but really it shouldn't be the be-all and end-all. we want magic to have diversity in strategy as well as deck names.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
I have to disagree with the idea that fast mana, as in a one time 1 mana boost is bad for the player experience. In my opinion the fast combo decks that they enable are absolutely vital to any healthy format.
And why is that?
Because, diversity and stuff...
Having several archetypes fall out of play and others completely warp their sideboards in hopes of competing with a deck taking 6 out of 8 of the Top 8's in professional level events sure does add diversity to a format. Totally.
The problem is that Deathrite Shaman is simply to flexible for a 1 drop by providing ramp, range and recovery.
It is good that this card is gone in modern.
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I wouldn't agree with you. That's simply not the case. If you ban just Eye of Ugin or Eldrazi Temple, the other two cards are still a problem. You need to ban both Eldrazi Mimic and at least one of the lands to effectively stop this deck from dominating. If you ban just one thing, the deck would be slowed and weakened a bit, but not massively.
Banning either of the lands makes the deck half as fast and half as consistent. Banning Mimic as well probably kills the deck.
Modern as a format suffers heavily from being the Magic format that plays the least amount of Magic, killing fast mana and free spells is at the top of the list for addressing that.
Yeah, Modern is all about free spells like...well there are a few and laundry lists of game breaking fast mana like...uh...
All of this hate for SSG, and four months ago half the forum probably never heard of the card.
Once April 4th comes around and the Eldrazi deck takes a hit the fast mana from SSG won't be that big of deal. I enjoy all the whacky combos in modern Living End, Goryo variants, Ad Nausuem etc etc. I would really hate to see those decks become collateral damage to the Eldrazi ban. I guess it would be perfect for our lil multi-planar monstrosities to ruin things as they come in and as they leave...
I could honestly see them saying something like "from here on out, fast mana is dead in this format" and ban Eye, Temple, SSG, and Mox Opal. I suppose that would have some consistency.
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Yeah, Modern is all about free spells like...well there are a few and laundry lists of game breaking fast mana like...uh...
Eye of Ugin/Eldrazi Temple. Tron. Mox Opal. Simian Spirit Guide. Rituals.[/quote]
What's the last time a Ritual based deck was dominant in Modern? Tron is only fast mana if you build the entire deck around that one source so it hardly define the format. Mox Opal is what one decent deck and one minor deck? Simian Spirit Guide is, frankly, an insanely marginal card even more so than Mox Opal.
Killing that stuff with fire would instantly lead to a better format.
I guess if you consider "all Midrange all the time" to be a better format. Wiping out the few, really weak, forms acceleration available in Modern would kill off every deck that wants to do something other than cast a better creature than the opponent.
I'd ban either Eye or Temple. The Tron player in me wants temple banned moreso than Eye but I'd prefer they ban one first and then the other. If it's still degenerate by the next ban season, then they can ban the second. It's best not to go too trigger happy.
More importantly, I feel, is that they not touch Affinity or any of the veteran decks of the format. Of course Affinity has been Tier 1 for awhile but has only had a recent surge due to its great Eldrazi match-up which may mistakenly give Wizard the impression that it's just "too dominant." Yes it can get some really unfair nutdraws but I feel its dominance right now is just the meta. Neutering Affinity will likely cause longtime player backlash worse than even the Pod or Splinter Twin bans. The latter bans had already done enough to shake the faith of a player a player base already wary of investing too heavily into any big deck.
Sure affinity takes game 1 pretty consistently but sideboard hating affinity into oblivion is a longstanding tradition and I've always found it to be quite the enjoyable matchup.
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Eye of Ugin
Eldrazi Temple
Possibly Simian Spirit Guide
Possibly Mox Opal
Hopefully Arcbound Ravager
Hopefully Cranial Plating
Unban
Nothing.
I don't see why they should unban anything when the environment hasn't even had a proper chance to settle after the previous Splinter Twin and Summer Bloom ban.
The Eldrazi Menace truly has been a menace in this sense.
It provided false validation for Splinter Twin fanboys who take the presence of an entirely new, much more broken archetype to justify the existence of Splinter Twin.
"It never got this bad with Splinter Twin!" and the absurd "If Twin was still around to keep things in check, this wouldn't have happened!"
If any real insight for the health of the modern environment has come about in the last few months in the period of modern's history . . .
. . . it's that fast mana is very dangerous and affinity was very much rushing in to fill the void left by Splinter Twin.
The field at Pro Tour Oath of the Gatewatch wasn't just dominated by Eldrazi, it was also dominated by Affinity.
I think it would be nice to see a format adapt to the absence of Eldrazi, Affinity as we know it, and a nerfed Tron (Eye of Ugin ban) and Goryo's Vengeance (Simian Spirit Guide ban)
And for anyone thinking to respond with a bunch of noise about BGx and burn, save your breath. Those archetypes are leaps and bounds more fair than everything mentioned above.
"OH GOD MY BRAIN IS EXPLOADING AT HOW BAD THE ART IS ON MY OWN CARD"
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10/10, I tapped.
Spirits
Eye won't get banned yet I think
Eye + no other lands = 2 mana
Temple + no other lands = 2 mana
Eye + 1 land = 5 mana
Temple + 1 land = 3 mana
Eye + 2 land = 8 mana
Temple + 2 land = 4 mana
Eye + 3 land = 9 mana
Temple + 3 land = 5 mana
Eye + 4 land = 10 mana
Temple + 4 land = 6 mana
Sure Temple is better when you draw two of them, but how often is that?
There is more than enough land destruction between ghost quarter, molten rain, beast within and of course bloodmoon. Also spreading seas
One day I will go infinate on a token combo then drop Scramble verse and watch as the trolling begins. That day will be a good day.
Jace will never be unbanned and I wish people would stop even mentioning him lol. He's already proven to be a problem in modern AND cost wizards money in torniment attendance when he was legal in standard.
One day I will go infinate on a token combo then drop Scramble verse and watch as the trolling begins. That day will be a good day.
I'm not really sure where you are getting your math since eye generates 0-2 mana depending on if you have an eldrazi in hand. It's only a problem once you have the ability to pay for multiple color/colorless costs in a turn. Eye itself is as much. Liability as it is a boon in eldrazi right now since it does not actually generate colorless mana and thus can't cast thoughtnots and amashers by itself or paired with basics.
One day I will go infinate on a token combo then drop Scramble verse and watch as the trolling begins. That day will be a good day.
Eye is 2. With Urborg its 4 mana, with Temple its 4 mana, but only for eldrazi spells. Remember that.
It goes, I go*. Making cards unplayable devalues them way worse more than overprinting them. Overprinting them only makes it hard for investors to gain value longterm, players can get copies to play with, which is good.
This "guy" has fair points, and some have been restated here, but its still isnt fair to ban a legendary mythic rare in my eyes, when an uncommon non-legendary does damn near the same thing.
http://blog.mtgprice.com/2016/03/30/why-eye-of-ugin-is-the-ban/
IS there not a Restricted list?
Selling some cards I don't want.
Generally less than tcg mid.
Eye also:
Makes it very unlikely to open up Chalice at 1 turn 1 (2 SSG is unlikely)
Doesn't open up Dismember
Is an automull with 2 in the opener
Doesn't allow manland activation
Can never tap for diamond mana
There are plenty of drawbacks to Eye that are a more common occurrence, but everyone likes to twist their panties around their nards and yell "LOOOOOOOOOOOL 4 Mimic opener with an Eye YOU LOSE MOTHER ****ER!!!111" I'm pretty sure there's another deck in the format with several colorless creatures that can dump a lot on the board from their opening hand.
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Design wise, it will also prevent cheap eldrazi from being created for future sets.
Selling some cards I don't want.
Generally less than tcg mid.
I respect your opinion but I completely disagree.
Deathrite was being used in burn decks even.
It fights goyf? While it is true, it often was played along with tarmogoyf.
I don't think the such a versatile card is less op than snapcaster mage or goblin guide. Snapcaster does provide value and can save you some games but ultimately it is much more consequential than deathrite. And goblin guide was never a problem. Burn, while being a good deck, was never a problem in modern.
i may not like losing to a quick Griselbrand, but i'd sure as hell stick up for the guy who wants to try and make that deck work.
magic is full of interesting cards that have fun and worthwhile interactions with each other.
without that "combo" nature, the game just becomes an exercise in jamming the best unrelated cards together in a "Junk" style midrange nonsense way. that's a legit strategy but really it shouldn't be the be-all and end-all. we want magic to have diversity in strategy as well as deck names.
Having several archetypes fall out of play and others completely warp their sideboards in hopes of competing with a deck taking 6 out of 8 of the Top 8's in professional level events sure does add diversity to a format. Totally.
(Also known as Xenphire)
Eye of Ugin banned in Modern
Ancestral Vision unbanned in Modern
No other changes.
I would think they could also unban the Bloodbraid Elf, because this was only banned to fix the Deathrite Shaman, but that seems unlikely.
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It is good that this card is gone in modern.
Hands to the sky
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For the great Miss Y!
Banning either of the lands makes the deck half as fast and half as consistent. Banning Mimic as well probably kills the deck.
Yeah, Modern is all about free spells like...well there are a few and laundry lists of game breaking fast mana like...uh...
Once April 4th comes around and the Eldrazi deck takes a hit the fast mana from SSG won't be that big of deal. I enjoy all the whacky combos in modern Living End, Goryo variants, Ad Nausuem etc etc. I would really hate to see those decks become collateral damage to the Eldrazi ban. I guess it would be perfect for our lil multi-planar monstrosities to ruin things as they come in and as they leave...
Eye of Ugin/Eldrazi Temple. Tron. Mox Opal. Simian Spirit Guide. Rituals.[/quote]
What's the last time a Ritual based deck was dominant in Modern? Tron is only fast mana if you build the entire deck around that one source so it hardly define the format. Mox Opal is what one decent deck and one minor deck? Simian Spirit Guide is, frankly, an insanely marginal card even more so than Mox Opal.
Not really free and also extremely marginal.
Only one of five of which sees play in a single Tier 2 deck? They're not warping the format.
There are no cascade spell that cost no mana to cast. Also they only see play in single deck now that BBE is banned.
I guess if you consider "all Midrange all the time" to be a better format. Wiping out the few, really weak, forms acceleration available in Modern would kill off every deck that wants to do something other than cast a better creature than the opponent.
More importantly, I feel, is that they not touch Affinity or any of the veteran decks of the format. Of course Affinity has been Tier 1 for awhile but has only had a recent surge due to its great Eldrazi match-up which may mistakenly give Wizard the impression that it's just "too dominant." Yes it can get some really unfair nutdraws but I feel its dominance right now is just the meta. Neutering Affinity will likely cause longtime player backlash worse than even the Pod or Splinter Twin bans. The latter bans had already done enough to shake the faith of a player a player base already wary of investing too heavily into any big deck.
Sure affinity takes game 1 pretty consistently but sideboard hating affinity into oblivion is a longstanding tradition and I've always found it to be quite the enjoyable matchup.