With the release of the Gitrog Monster on the mothership tonight, and the Magic Story Article that came with it, I now think Shadows over Innistrad is a prelude to the change that's looming over Innistrad. We're seeing strong support in this set for the allied colored tribes we know and love. Even our rare land cycle is meant for the allied tribes to shine. However, we also have an uncommon land cycle supports enemy colors, a cycle of enemy colored cards that all seem related to what's plaguing Innistrad. Fevered Visions, a Hypno Toad, Altered Ego and Sorin and his war with Nahiri. Even Avacyn herself is "Enemy" colors between her two selves. I'm not in favor of the Eldrazi theory, I firmly believe we left them dead at Zendikar for now (Emy's doing other things, don't worry about it). But I am in favor of the Marit Lage (or something like) going all Cthulu on us with Nahiri dragging it along. I even think Thing in the Ice is a reference and bit hint to it. This set is the prelude to the reveal of whatever is really causing all the madness and it's bringing with it an almost foreign army and Nahiri brought it here. It's responsible for turning Avacyn mad and next set we see a lot more Enemy Colored themes, finish the Showland cycle, and have a small cycle of allied colored spells. Discuss.
I don't think you're pointing to anything as evidence other than the usual mana fixing and two-colour uncommons they put in every set these days to cement draft archetypes. Eldritch Moon could theoretically have an enemy-colour subtheme (heavens knows it's due), but I don't think there's any actual evidence to support it yet.
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DCI Level 2 Judge
If your question is "What would a judge do is this situation?", only one person's answer is relevant, and that is the Head Judge at your event. I can quote the rules, but I don't know your HJ.
Are you even trying? Are you even looking at the revealed cards available to you before you blurt out stuff like that? I guess it is easy to just ramble along and not put any thought or effort in your statements.
What you are suggesting is a total departure of the themes and tribes of SOI which were one of the wildly popular aspects that returned from Innistrad in the first place. You would just repeat the mistake of Morningtide as well doing this.
---
Honestly the biggest problem with that would be that there would need to be a continuance of themes in addition to this twist and SOI is simply not set up to continue e. g. its six major tribes with the same or similar flavor after such a mechanical shift. It should be obvious Wizards has learnt from breaking with popular tribes in the last set of a block after both the abandonment of Allies in ROE and the removal of Werewolves in AVR contributed to a lowered audience satisfaction. And SOI is filled with popular tribes.
I'm going to play advocatus diaboli here and say that there are a few color shifts that I can see work and mesh well with the storyline so far: There is an implication of a forgotten fourth powerpuff Angel and "Flight Moonsilver" might make a return in black-white; Spirits and Humans are pretty malleable and could just swich around a little; Horrors are a weird little tribe that could expand. But where would you go with Vampires, Werewolves and Zombies? There is not even a single black Wolf that would indicate remotely a possible cross-set synergy to e. g. black-green Werewolves.
Even entertaining the idea there is nothing here but "Look there is a card/cycle in enemy colors, maybe the entire next set will be about that!" And with every set now supporting at least all ten color pairs for Limited purposes that is not a strong foundation. I assume the enemy-colored cards just are meant to supplement the already strong allied-color focus that emerges with the return of the original tribes
That would be cool.
We need an ennemy command cycle as well as some ennemy tribes in limited, let's guess:
-BG Frog
NO.
Stupid Gitrog Toad *****s all over older cards.
Frogs are GU, NOTBG. It's not my fault some idiot in design forgot that
(or more likely, just wanted to find any way they could to shoehorn in anotherBG Legendary). BG already has Elves, Treefolk, Spiders, Gorgons, Lhurgoyfs, Trolls, and probably like 18 other tribes I'm currently forgetting.
They could completely ignore BG for the next 5 years and I couldn't be happier.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
That would be cool.
We need an ennemy command cycle as well as some ennemy tribes in limited, let's guess:
-BG Frog
NO.
Stupid Gitrog Toad *****s all over older cards.
Frogs are GU, NOTBG. It's not my fault some idiot in design forgot that
(or more likely, just wanted to find any way they could to shoehorn in anotherBG Legendary). BG already has Elves, Treefolk, Spiders, Gorgons, Lhurgoyfs, Trolls, and probably like 18 other tribes I'm currently forgetting.
They could completely ignore BG for the next 5 years and I couldn't be happier.
The Gitrog Monster is a horror, and also a massive swamp beast, so it deserves its Golgari colors.
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Modern: G Stompy G UR Izzet Prowess/Delver UR UWB Spirits UWB UWB Brain Control UWB WUB Esper Reveillark WUB EDH: WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG W Nine-and-a-Half TailsW WGUR Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis WGUR
It's responsible for turning Avacyn mad and next set we see a lot more Enemy Colored themes, finish the Showland cycle, and have a small cycle of allied colored spells.
If they finish the mediocre showland cycle before the battleland cycle, I'll be a river of tears. They'd be flipping the bird to EDH players.
[quote from="Downdala »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/speculation/680676-eldritch-moon-is-an-enemy-colored-set?comment=2"]What you are suggesting is a total departure of the themes and tribes of SOI which were one of the wildly popular aspects that returned from Innistrad in the first place. You would just repeat the mistake of Morningtide as well doing this.
This, a thousand times this, just post this to the top of any thread discussing enemy-colored tribes in the Eldritch Moon small set following Shadows.
Wizards knows that the allied-color tribal theme was one of the most iconic and popular aspects of the original Innistrad. They have brought that back again and, while tweaking the mechanics and feel of some of them, are trying to stay true to the first block. They are absolutely not going to flip things entirely to being enemy-colored tribes in the small set. It's not going to work with draft.
This time it looks like they've replaced the standard cycle of uncommon gold cards with a set of enemy-colored enchantments, and potentially allied-colored tribal creatures, with mono-colors and a different color activation cost.
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----- "I cannot tune a harp or play a lyre, but I know how to make a small city great." - Themistocles
just fyi:
There are currently 19 non-changeling frogs in magic.
9 Green (4 of which are Anurid, which were given the Frog typing via errata)
5 Black (2 were Anurid)
3 Green/Blue (all from Ravnica)
1 Green/White (Another Anurid)
1 Blue
1 Artifact
even if we don't count Anurid, black still has 3 frogs to blue's 1 and the green/blue frogs are a Simic thing unlikely to exist anywhere but Ravnica.
Innistrad has a locked in theme that will not change for a long time. Sure, they are going to spoil some enemy colored cards but that doesn't necessarily mean they are switching themes.
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Modern
Competitive: GW Hatebears - UG Infect - BGW Liege Rhino
Casual: GR Titan Ramp - BR Aggro
WIP: BUW Control Mill
Even in the original Innistrad, there were enemy color themes, with some cards being monocolor but having an enemy flashback cost. I think this is just a callback to that. Innistrad has included enemy color themes, but they were nowhere near as important as the five ally tribes. W/R humans was pretty big in Avacyn restored too. But I don't think there will be permanent color shifting. A BG toad and a WR Avacyn are similar to how planeswalkers have their colors determined by their personality, not for the consideration of gameplay. They have these cool ideas for legendary creatures, so they make their color based on their personality, since they are also characters within the story.
Werewolves have kept their allied color identity RG
Zombies too UB
Spirits also WU
Vampires BR
Humans are a mixed bunch as we have them in pretty much every color.
I have an idea, where the tribes bleed into a third color.
Werewolves drift into B (the first werewolf was black, after all).
Zombies add R, with more of a Modern Prometheus (aka Frankenstein) vibe.
Spirits add G, with haunted trees and ghosts of people murdered in the woods who want to lure you to your death.
Vampires add W, like Sorin.
Humans, of course, add C, as Emrakul - lured here by Nahiri's cryptoliths - converts humanity into the flesh of a newborn eldrazi titan to replace the fallen Kozilek.
There's a minor devil theme - not sure which pair, but most likely UR, since two of them are non-creatures
All but 2 of the blue zombies are horrors. Blue and red are also the only colors with horrors(and two cards that transform into horrors)
Green and Blue are the only cards that care about using clue tokens.
The only enemy pair lacking evidence in flavor/story is the BG, which will most likely continue to be a dredge style
I keep waiting for an enemy colored block, but they keep not delivering it. I don't think Moon is going to be an enemy set for all the reasons listed above.
Maybe the Egypt set will have:
white/black - mummies
black/green - scarabs (insects) and snakes
green/blue - crocodiles and shamans
blue/red - ??
red/white - cultists
Here's hoping the enemy colored block comes up soon.
[quote from="Nightshade1233 »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/speculation/680676-eldritch-moon-is-an-enemy-colored-set?comment=5"]
Zombies add R, with more of a Modern Prometheus (aka Frankenstein) vibe.
That's already what U zombies are.
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Zombies add R, with more of a Modern Prometheus (aka Frankenstein) vibe.
That's already what U zombies are.
</blockquote>
We haven't really had an erudite, intelligent reanimated corpse. Grimgrin's the closest, and he's a far cry from the Monster of Shelley's novel.
And R is the color for that?
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Zombies add R, with more of a Modern Prometheus (aka Frankenstein) vibe.
That's already what U zombies are.
</blockquote>
We haven't really had an erudite, intelligent reanimated corpse. Grimgrin's the closest, and he's a far cry from the Monster of Shelley's novel.
And R is the color for that?
ehh. Red does and doesn't thematically fit. Red and blue have always been like the crazy spellslingers like the Izzet, add some black necromancy i can see it work, plus there has always been Thraximundarwho's a zombie. A lot of the red cards in SOI have been some mad scientist doing something weird, like the flavor text in Vessel of Volatility or the card Harness the Stormas a whole. It wouldn't surprise me at all if they dabbled in necromancy. Red alone as a color isn't to fitting, but together with black and blue? It could work.
i just don't think it'll happen at all to be honest. we just had a three color block like two blocks ago, hellthe tail end of it is still standard legal, and even until just recently had three color decks been dominant competitively. you might be able to make a good jund deck or something, but honestly i doubt that's what the block is going to be about.
Red needs to get more 'passion' and a little less 'blow ***** up.' A reanimated man conflicted about his identity and driven to find a place in the world sounds like a great UR or BUR character.
But I agree, it ain't gonna happen in this next expansion.
I agree, we see so much Anger and so little of every other emotion from red it gets hella boring. At least they've started to add it with some cards (like chandra's parents) but I'm still hoping for a mechanic where anything other than anger is reds driving force
Red would make sense if you're creating a true individual instead of a mindless zombie. Frankenstein's monster wasn't just a robot or a corpse that moved around, he had thoughts and feelings of his own. Black wouldn't have any interest in imbuing its creation with things that may make it dangerous to control, and blue probably wouldn't either, since an experiment in emotion would be out of character for a blue person without some red in them.
I doubt its going to be Enemy-Coloured in the next set. There is not enough space.
I DO hope we get an actual enemy-coloured block next, to balance out Innistrad being yet more Allied-love. They didn't really toss Enemy-coloured fans a bone in this block, like they did in the original Innistrad.
MaRo said an enemy colored block is on the short list a couple of days ago on Tumblr. Hopefully its a hint about the block after SOI. More hopefully it has enemy versions of the showlands instead of the battle/tango lands.
And enemy colors got just as much in the SOI set as we did in the Innistarad set. A cycle of mono colored cards with an enemy colored cost somewhere and enemy color producing lands. In fact the color combos are the exact same from Innistrad. Rally the Peasants in Inn and Nahiri's Machinations in SOI and the same applies to the other colors. EMN is more than likely going to follow in Dark Ascension's foot steps and have the another cycle with the other enemy color.
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WOut of the ground,I rise to grace...W BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
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If your question is "What would a judge do is this situation?", only one person's answer is relevant, and that is the Head Judge at your event. I can quote the rules, but I don't know your HJ.
Are you even trying? Are you even looking at the revealed cards available to you before you blurt out stuff like that? I guess it is easy to just ramble along and not put any thought or effort in your statements.
What you are suggesting is a total departure of the themes and tribes of SOI which were one of the wildly popular aspects that returned from Innistrad in the first place. You would just repeat the mistake of Morningtide as well doing this.
---
Honestly the biggest problem with that would be that there would need to be a continuance of themes in addition to this twist and SOI is simply not set up to continue e. g. its six major tribes with the same or similar flavor after such a mechanical shift. It should be obvious Wizards has learnt from breaking with popular tribes in the last set of a block after both the abandonment of Allies in ROE and the removal of Werewolves in AVR contributed to a lowered audience satisfaction. And SOI is filled with popular tribes.
I'm going to play advocatus diaboli here and say that there are a few color shifts that I can see work and mesh well with the storyline so far: There is an implication of a forgotten fourth powerpuff Angel and "Flight Moonsilver" might make a return in black-white; Spirits and Humans are pretty malleable and could just swich around a little; Horrors are a weird little tribe that could expand. But where would you go with Vampires, Werewolves and Zombies? There is not even a single black Wolf that would indicate remotely a possible cross-set synergy to e. g. black-green Werewolves.
Even entertaining the idea there is nothing here but "Look there is a card/cycle in enemy colors, maybe the entire next set will be about that!" And with every set now supporting at least all ten color pairs for Limited purposes that is not a strong foundation. I assume the enemy-colored cards just are meant to supplement the already strong allied-color focus that emerges with the return of the original tribes
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
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NO.
Stupid Gitrog Toad *****s all over older cards.
Frogs are GU, NOT BG. It's not my fault some idiot in design forgot that
(or more likely, just wanted to find any way they could to shoehorn in another BG Legendary).
BG already has Elves, Treefolk, Spiders, Gorgons, Lhurgoyfs, Trolls, and probably like 18 other tribes I'm currently forgetting.
They could completely ignore BG for the next 5 years and I couldn't be happier.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
The Gitrog Monster is a horror, and also a massive swamp beast, so it deserves its Golgari colors.
G Stompy G
UR Izzet Prowess/Delver UR
UWB Spirits UWB
UWB Brain Control UWBWUB Esper Reveillark WUB
EDH:
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG
W Nine-and-a-Half TailsW
WGUR Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis WGUR
If they finish the mediocre showland cycle before the battleland cycle, I'll be a river of tears. They'd be flipping the bird to EDH players.
This, a thousand times this, just post this to the top of any thread discussing enemy-colored tribes in the Eldritch Moon small set following Shadows.
Wizards knows that the allied-color tribal theme was one of the most iconic and popular aspects of the original Innistrad. They have brought that back again and, while tweaking the mechanics and feel of some of them, are trying to stay true to the first block. They are absolutely not going to flip things entirely to being enemy-colored tribes in the small set. It's not going to work with draft.
This time it looks like they've replaced the standard cycle of uncommon gold cards with a set of enemy-colored enchantments, and potentially allied-colored tribal creatures, with mono-colors and a different color activation cost.
"I cannot tune a harp or play a lyre, but I know how to make a small city great." - Themistocles
There are currently 19 non-changeling frogs in magic.
9 Green (4 of which are Anurid, which were given the Frog typing via errata)
5 Black (2 were Anurid)
3 Green/Blue (all from Ravnica)
1 Green/White (Another Anurid)
1 Blue
1 Artifact
even if we don't count Anurid, black still has 3 frogs to blue's 1 and the green/blue frogs are a Simic thing unlikely to exist anywhere but Ravnica.
Competitive: GW Hatebears - UG Infect - BGW Liege Rhino
Casual: GR Titan Ramp - BR Aggro
WIP: BUW Control Mill
I have an idea, where the tribes bleed into a third color.
Werewolves drift into B (the first werewolf was black, after all).
Zombies add R, with more of a Modern Prometheus (aka Frankenstein) vibe.
Spirits add G, with haunted trees and ghosts of people murdered in the woods who want to lure you to your death.
Vampires add W, like Sorin.
Humans, of course, add C, as Emrakul - lured here by Nahiri's cryptoliths - converts humanity into the flesh of a newborn eldrazi titan to replace the fallen Kozilek.
There's not a lot of evidence, but it adds up.
if you look at the 5 white transform cards, 4 of them transform into enemy colors. 2 into red, 2 into white.
Pious Evangel wayward disciple and Hanweir Militia CaptainWestvale Cult Leader[/card]
RW Inquisition town gossipmonger/incited rabble Archangel Avacyn/ Avacyn, the Purifier
There's a minor devil theme - not sure which pair, but most likely UR, since two of them are non-creatures
All but 2 of the blue zombies are horrors. Blue and red are also the only colors with horrors(and two cards that transform into horrors)
Green and Blue are the only cards that care about using clue tokens.
The only enemy pair lacking evidence in flavor/story is the BG, which will most likely continue to be a dredge style
The toad is a frog horror.
Standard - Some kind of control
Modern - UB Mill (casual)
EDH - Meren's Grave Shenanigans
Maybe the Egypt set will have:
white/black - mummies
black/green - scarabs (insects) and snakes
green/blue - crocodiles and shamans
blue/red - ??
red/white - cultists
Here's hoping the enemy colored block comes up soon.
WB is either Knights or Clerics, as one example.
That's already what U zombies are.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
We haven't really had an erudite, intelligent reanimated corpse. Grimgrin's the closest, and he's a far cry from the Monster of Shelley's novel.
And R is the color for that?
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
ehh. Red does and doesn't thematically fit. Red and blue have always been like the crazy spellslingers like the Izzet, add some black necromancy i can see it work, plus there has always been Thraximundarwho's a zombie. A lot of the red cards in SOI have been some mad scientist doing something weird, like the flavor text in Vessel of Volatility or the card Harness the Stormas a whole. It wouldn't surprise me at all if they dabbled in necromancy. Red alone as a color isn't to fitting, but together with black and blue? It could work.
i just don't think it'll happen at all to be honest. we just had a three color block like two blocks ago, hellthe tail end of it is still standard legal, and even until just recently had three color decks been dominant competitively. you might be able to make a good jund deck or something, but honestly i doubt that's what the block is going to be about.
But I agree, it ain't gonna happen in this next expansion.
MaRo said an enemy colored block is on the short list a couple of days ago on Tumblr. Hopefully its a hint about the block after SOI. More hopefully it has enemy versions of the showlands instead of the battle/tango lands.
And enemy colors got just as much in the SOI set as we did in the Innistarad set. A cycle of mono colored cards with an enemy colored cost somewhere and enemy color producing lands. In fact the color combos are the exact same from Innistrad. Rally the Peasants in Inn and Nahiri's Machinations in SOI and the same applies to the other colors. EMN is more than likely going to follow in Dark Ascension's foot steps and have the another cycle with the other enemy color.
BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B