There have been a few reasons Magic R&D don't tend to like Tribal, but Innistrad was a tribal theme and. With Delirium coming and Tribal being a card type, anyone else hoping we see it make a comeback?
Don't hold your breath for that. They have said multiple times Tribal is not coming back.
In fact, if I recall correctly, it was considered for the original Innistrad block but they ultimately decided the card type was a mistake and would no longe use it.
There have been a few reasons Magic R&D don't tend to like Tribal, but Innistrad was a tribal theme and. With Delirium coming and Tribal being a card type, anyone else hoping we see it make a comeback?
Of course he's talking about supplements, but still sounds like Tribal isn't as dead as it once sounded.
You're mixing up Tribal the card supertype and tribal the theme. Tribal as a theme, where creatures with certain subtypes have synergy with each other, is never going to go away. We've even had tons of it in BFZ and OGW, and before that in Origins with elves and thopters, and before that in Khans block with warriors. Tribal, the card supertype, is most likely never coming back because it has rules issues that Wizards R&D don't like.
By the way, as a supertype and not a type, Tribal does not count towards Delirium (nor Tarmogoyf, for that matter). Neither does Legendary.
There have been a few reasons Magic R&D don't tend to like Tribal, but Innistrad was a tribal theme and. With Delirium coming and Tribal being a card type, anyone else hoping we see it make a comeback?
Of course he's talking about supplements, but still sounds like Tribal isn't as dead as it once sounded.
You're mixing up Tribal the card supertype and tribal the theme. Tribal as a theme, where creatures with certain subtypes have synergy with each other, is never going to go away. We've even had tons of it in BFZ and OGW, and before that in Origins with elves and thopters, and before that in Khans block with warriors. Tribal, the card supertype, is most likely never coming back because it has rules issues that Wizards R&D don't like.
By the way, as a supertype and not a type, Tribal does not count towards Delirium (nor Tarmogoyf, for that matter). Neither does Legendary.
Look up Blood Oath or similar cards, and the reminder text does list Tribal as a card type. Notably, Legendary is not in the list.
Wait, what? Even though it's clearly a modifier on the type of Instant or Sorcery? Even though it doesn't make sense to be by itself on a card without another type? All evidence and sense points to it being a supertype, and yet it's somehow not. No wonder it's never coming back.
Wait, what? Even though it's clearly a modifier on the type of Instant or Sorcery? Even though it doesn't make sense to be by itself on a card without another type? All evidence and sense points to it being a supertype, and yet it's somehow not. No wonder it's never coming back.
There was this Daily MTG article about Innistrad (Scary Stories Part 1, now 404'd) in which MaRo explained why Moan of the Unhallowed wasn't a tribal spell, and it basically boiled down to how this card type makes the game too unnecessarily complex in the eyes of new players.
Bull*****, if you ask me. They just don't know what to do with it or simply won't bother using up more design space with tribal themes.
Tribal works as a Supertype, but it is definitely a Type. The reason is that Subtypes refer to Types, and each Type has its own list of Subtypes, so you couldn't just have "Instant - Goblin" as Goblin is a Creature Subtype and not an Instante one.
Tribal has every subtype creatures have, so in "Tribal Instant - Goblin" the subtype "Goblin" refers to the type "Tribal".
One of the problems with it is that once you start using it it's hard to justify not using it. And suddenly you're attaching Tribal everywhere creating unecessary complexity. I mean, why is Dragonstorm not a Tribal Sorcery - Dragon? Why Lingering Souls is not a Tribal Sorcery - Spirit? Or maybe Captain's Claws could be "Tribal Artifact - Ally Equipment"
The main reason I heard it isn't coming back is because it actually mattered so infrequently, they finally were just like "Why are we even messing with this?" (Yes, a different way of saying 'unecessary complication' but that was the exact way MaRo explained it in his Drive to Work podcast, iirc.)
Personally, I loved it. I really wanted it back for a while there..
Blade of the Bloodchief SHOULD be tribal, but then again, what more (other than just complete fringe-y interactions with a handful of other Tribal-type cards) is gained by that than what is already printed on Blade of the Bloodchief? You already communicate that it is far better with Vampires in the rules text, so why do you need Tribal supertype to make that distinction?
Wait, what? Even though it's clearly a modifier on the type of Instant or Sorcery? Even though it doesn't make sense to be by itself on a card without another type? All evidence and sense points to it being a supertype, and yet it's somehow not. No wonder it's never coming back.
Cards can have multiple Types. Artifact Land, Enchantment Creature, Artifact Creature, etc.
Tribal is just a normal card type, there just aren't any Tribal cards that aren't also Sorcery or Instant. You could (in theory) have a Tribal Artifact Creature - Goblin Golem
Artifacts dualtypes with creature, enchantment, land, and tribal.
Creature dualtypes with artifact, enchantment, and land.
Enchantment dualtypes with artifact, creature, and tribal.
Instant only dualtypes with tribal.
Land dualtypes with artifact and creature.
Planeswalker doesn't dualtype with anything.
Sorcery only dualtypes with tribal.
Tribal dualtypes with artifact, enchantment, instant, and sorcery.
What you are saying is all correct. The same is true of Snow or Legendary. They can be paired with anything, but never be on their own. What is a card that has only the Tribal type, not mixed with anything else? All other types can stand on their own, but tribal cannot. It's a type because it needs to have subtypes to work, but behaves in other respects as a supertype. It makes the whole mechanic a massive mess, and I completely understand now why they don't wish to use it again.
One of the problems with it is that once you start using it it's hard to justify not using it. And suddenly you're attaching Tribal everywhere creating unecessary complexity. I mean, why is Dragonstorm not a Tribal Sorcery - Dragon? Why Lingering Souls is not a Tribal Sorcery - Spirit? Or maybe Captain's Claws could be "Tribal Artifact - Ally Equipment"
But what exactly is so complex about the tribal cards? Imagine for a second if those cards you mentioned had the tribal supertype. When you're casting any of those spells in a tribal deck it's obvious what they do and what they interact with. And when you're not playing tribal, then the supertype is simply irrelevant and you move on with the game, just like a creature being a "Goblin" doesn't matter if there's nothing to interact with that creature type. I recall MaRo saying that new players would find it confusing or something along those lines, but that's such a lame excuse. It's not like they have to understand the layer system to play with those cards, for Christ's sake.
The main reason I heard it isn't coming back is because it actually mattered so infrequently, they finally were just like "Why are we even messing with this?" (Yes, a different way of saying 'unecessary complication' but that was the exact way MaRo explained it in his Drive to Work podcast, iirc.)
Personally, I loved it. I really wanted it back for a while there..
Blade of the Bloodchief SHOULD be tribal, but then again, what more (other than just complete fringe-y interactions with a handful of other Tribal-type cards) is gained by that than what is already printed on Blade of the Bloodchief? You already communicate that it is far better with Vampires in the rules text, so why do you need Tribal supertype to make that distinction?
There you go.
As I see it, the problem isn't that the supertype isn't needed in existing cards, it's that they just won't make it so through new cards that could potentially care about tribal. That is, they were playtesting with tribal cards that don't interact in any meaningful way because God knows why. And honestly, the worse thing is that it's so easy to make tribal supporting cards beyond those fringe-y interactions you talk about. Really, the new Eldrazi decks are there to prove it. By merely printing cards like Eye of Ugin/Eldrazi Temple for other tribes they would instantly make tribal worth it. Then all they would need to do is write "tribal" in some new spells and it's done. Cavern of Souls, for another example, could've worked for the same end, if only it wasn't limited to creature spells.
The biggest issue is choosing if they update the past. There are tons of creature types with spells that help them, but without the tribal type.
There is an issue with understanding for new players. If you play Elvish Promenade with an empty field, you still get an Elf token, right? After all, if you have two Boggart Shenanigans and one is destroyed, the other should trigger.
Third issue is card space. There's only so much space on the type line, and they've created their own font for it. "Legendary Enchantment Creature - God" barely fit. Eldrazi Conscription didn't have much wiggle room. And imagine if it was for something Simic, so it's a 'fish mutant' or worse.
All that in mind, I think that as long as it's done sparingly and mostly in supplements, I think they should do it. They only touched on it once since Lorwyn/Shadowmoor, but that showed they aren't entirely opposed to it. And they have had it in reprints as well. So it's not like it's as hated as banding. Or phasing. etc etc.
The biggest issue is choosing if they update the past. There are tons of creature types with spells that help them, but without the tribal type.
There is an issue with understanding for new players. If you play Elvish Promenade with an empty field, you still get an Elf token, right? After all, if you have two Boggart Shenanigans and one is destroyed, the other should trigger.
Third issue is card space. There's only so much space on the type line, and they've created their own font for it. "Legendary Enchantment Creature - God" barely fit. Eldrazi Conscription didn't have much wiggle room. And imagine if it was for something Simic, so it's a 'fish mutant' or worse.
All that in mind, I think that as long as it's done sparingly and mostly in supplements, I think they should do it. They only touched on it once since Lorwyn/Shadowmoor, but that showed they aren't entirely opposed to it. And they have had it in reprints as well. So it's not like it's as hated as banding. Or phasing. etc etc.
Sorry, but you should just abandon hope here. Original Zendikar was over six years ago. They've since decided the mechanic was a mistake. Maybe they'll do some reprints for certain supplemental sets like Modern Masters, but there is little to no chance of them making new cards with it.
But what exactly is so complex about the tribal cards? Imagine for a second if those cards you mentioned had the tribal supertype. When you're casting any of those spells in a tribal deck it's obvious what they do and what they interact with. And when you're not playing tribal, then the supertype is simply irrelevant and you move on with the game, just like a creature being a "Goblin" doesn't matter if there's nothing to interact with that creature type. I recall MaRo saying that new players would find it confusing or something along those lines, but that's such a lame excuse. It's not like they have to understand the layer system to play with those cards, for Christ's sake.
I agree it's super easy for us to get it. And I personally love all the possible interactions Tribal spells provide. But caring about new players is EXTREMELY important for the game. Players quit the game for all sorts of reasons, so if you don't have new players coming in it will ultimately kill the game.
Now, what's so complicated about Tribal? Not much, really, but it adds an extra layer of complexity on something that already have tons of other layers. In a set like Lorwyn the type Tribal makes lots of sense, in a set like Scars of Mirrodin there's not much use for it. But still, once you start using it you have to keep using it. The result is tons of cards with a piece of information that doesn't matter at all.
Sure it would be sweet to use General Tazri to tutor for March from the Tomb or even sweeter to activate Skyshroud Poacher's ability to put an Elvish Guidance directly into play. But they've chosen to sacrifice some possible interactions in favor of keeping the game more accessible.
If you play Elvish Promenade with an empty field, you still get an Elf token, right? After all, if you have two Boggart Shenanigans and one is destroyed, the other should trigger.
If you play Elvish Promenade and you don't have any elves in play you won't get the Elf token, because it only checks for permanents and not spells that were on the stack before its resolution. The Boggart Shenanigans triggers because it's a permanent in play when the other one goes to the graveyard.
Third issue is card space. There's only so much space on the type line, and they've created their own font for it. "Legendary Enchantment Creature - God" barely fit. Eldrazi Conscription didn't have much wiggle room. And imagine if it was for something Simic, so it's a 'fish mutant' or worse.
While I think it's highly unlikely that they'd ever have to print something like a Legendary Enchantment Creature — Fish Mutant God, I can't say I don't secretly wish they did.
I agree it's super easy for us to get it. And I personally love all the possible interactions Tribal spells provide. But caring about new players is EXTREMELY important for the game. Players quit the game for all sorts of reasons, so if you don't have new players coming in it will ultimately kill the game.
Your argument makes perfect sense, Wizards has to take accessibility into consideration or else the game is doomed. But if people quit because they find tribal too complicated I'd be surprised if they were okay with learning about how things like the stack and priority work.
@Sanguivore, those are great examples--I mean, I didn't even realize the Boggart Shenanigans one and I've been playing this game a very long time with L1's/L2's. Jeez.
Every single time they add some new mechanic or Type...call it a 'layer' or a 'complication', whatever you want to.. Every single one of those things has to 'carry its own weight' metaphorically speaking. OK, so Tribal adds some flavor and lends some synergy to tribes. That's great. However, it is lending those things to design space that frankly doesn't hurt for either of these things in the first place. Tribes are both hugely flavorful and HUGELY synergistic already without even trying.
Now, with that in mind, please also remember that putting Tribal into a standard-legal surely impacts the Limited environment in which it lives. You suddenly have to include all sorts of randomly-assigned Tribal stuff (or something like Changelings) just to make it work. That's a real cost and usually it's a negative. Devoid is a pretty good recent example of this. It's literally meaningless text in the text box that exists to help glue everything together in the Limited environment. Yes, it has some interesting interactions in constructed applications but Devoid doesn't really carry it's own weight outside in a very similar way to Tribal.
I think folks who really fight for it really like tribal decks (small t) and would like to see them get additional love and juice and complexity. Tribal (large t) certainly does that, but again, it doesn't do enough besides that make it worth turning a set completely upside down to include it at a large level. "Well, OK Morphling, then just don't do it at a large level. Just do it.." "On a small level.." "Oh." See where this goes? What's the point of doing it at all then?
Last thought: It has a very vocal base of support (again, I really liked it) and I know MaRo knows this. Based on this, I am very confident we WILL yet see some more Tribal cards (large t) but only in supplemental set(s) and (I'm guessing) probably only fun one-shots like Eldrazi Conscription. Although, come to think of it.. I could see it for Commander or something maybe--hell, all five decks. Tribal-themed Commander product? What would folks here think of that?
Wait, what? Even though it's clearly a modifier on the type of Instant or Sorcery? Even though it doesn't make sense to be by itself on a card without another type? All evidence and sense points to it being a supertype, and yet it's somehow not. No wonder it's never coming back.
There are lots of Tribal cards that are not instants and sorceries.
===
Although Tribal reads as an adjective, which is typically thought of as supertypes, it is not.
Subtypes have to be paired with card types, not supertypes. That is why Tribal is a type. It shares the same subtypes as the Creature type, just as Instant and Sorceries can share their sub-types.
The weird thing about tribal is that while it is indeed a type, it reads more like a supertype, and it doesn't exist by itself. As in, there are no cards that I know of that have the type tribal, and nothing else.
Your argument makes perfect sense, Wizards has to take accessibility into consideration or else the game is doomed. But if people quit because they find tribal too complicated I'd be surprised if they were okay with learning about how things like the stack and priority work.
I guess it is more a "giving up trying to learn" than actually quiting something they already play. People are not that dumb as it may seem from my first post, they can learn pretty complex stuff. The problem is how much complexity you present them at once.
The layer system is so complex that even competitive players have a hard time figuring out how it works. But this is something a new player will probably not need to care during his first games. That's why the "New World Order" limits how complex commons can be (cause most cards a new player will see are commons) and leave the weird shenanigans to higher rarities.
Maybe Tribal would be ok at Rare/Mythic. Maybe even Uncommon. But it would be weird that some obviously tribal-ish spells at Common don't get the appropiate subtype (like Krenko's Command maybe) while similar higher rarity spells does (like Hordeling Outburst)
[QUOTE]
The layer system is so complex that even competitive players have a hard time figuring out how it works. But this is something a new player will probably not need to care during his first games. That's why the "New World Order" limits how complex commons can be (cause most cards a new player will see are commons) and leave the weird shenanigans to higher rarities.
I still have problems wrapping my head around setting power and toughness. Most of my friends still use dice to mark total (headache when you have anything that deals with counters), but it gets significantly weird when you have out a few cards that set P/T to different values, with different controllers, and have other boosts. Godhead of Awe is simple. But add in a Darksteel Mutation and a few others with different controllers and everyone argues each turn. Though fun with a few Wild Beastmasters in play.
Not sure if it's been said yet, but I always thought the main problem with Tribal was identifying what made a spell a tribal spell and not tribal, and the weirdness of something that should be Tribal but isn't. Shouldn't Dragon Fodder be Tribal? Would Ojutai's Summons be Tribal Djinn? The reason they aren't (well, less so for Summons since it's well after they established their dislike of Tribal) is because they aren't in sets that care about Tribal, and having the extra category is pointless if it doesn't matter, yet it feels weird to have spells that would clearly normally be Tribal but aren't because they aren't in a set that cares about it. And then there's all the obvious cards from the past that would be tribal but aren't because they predated the classification (which I think is stated as one of the reasons they don't have sub-types for spells that would make great flavor to build to around-- I've seen Mark talk about the potential for spells to be something like Sorcery - Fire, or Instant - Ice, but they can't do it because of the huge backlog of designs that existed before it).
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In fact, if I recall correctly, it was considered for the original Innistrad block but they ultimately decided the card type was a mistake and would no longe use it.
Commander: WUBRG Superfriends, GW Rhys Tokens, WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Kitchen Table (now that's real Magic): WUBRG Domain, GU Biovisionary, UB Korlash Grandeur, UW Merfolk Mill
Of course he's talking about supplements, but still sounds like Tribal isn't as dead as it once sounded.
By the way, as a supertype and not a type, Tribal does not count towards Delirium (nor Tarmogoyf, for that matter). Neither does Legendary.
Look up Blood Oath or similar cards, and the reminder text does list Tribal as a card type. Notably, Legendary is not in the list.
Lol read the Future Sight edition. Tribal has always counted for Tarmogoyf, the card type was literally previewed by it. Same for planeswalker.
There was this Daily MTG article about Innistrad (Scary Stories Part 1, now 404'd) in which MaRo explained why Moan of the Unhallowed wasn't a tribal spell, and it basically boiled down to how this card type makes the game too unnecessarily complex in the eyes of new players.
Bull*****, if you ask me. They just don't know what to do with it or simply won't bother using up more design space with tribal themes.
Tribal has every subtype creatures have, so in "Tribal Instant - Goblin" the subtype "Goblin" refers to the type "Tribal".
One of the problems with it is that once you start using it it's hard to justify not using it. And suddenly you're attaching Tribal everywhere creating unecessary complexity. I mean, why is Dragonstorm not a Tribal Sorcery - Dragon? Why Lingering Souls is not a Tribal Sorcery - Spirit? Or maybe Captain's Claws could be "Tribal Artifact - Ally Equipment"
Commander: WUBRG Superfriends, GW Rhys Tokens, WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Kitchen Table (now that's real Magic): WUBRG Domain, GU Biovisionary, UB Korlash Grandeur, UW Merfolk Mill
Personally, I loved it. I really wanted it back for a while there..
Blade of the Bloodchief SHOULD be tribal, but then again, what more (other than just complete fringe-y interactions with a handful of other Tribal-type cards) is gained by that than what is already printed on Blade of the Bloodchief? You already communicate that it is far better with Vampires in the rules text, so why do you need Tribal supertype to make that distinction?
There you go.
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Cards can have multiple Types. Artifact Land, Enchantment Creature, Artifact Creature, etc.
Tribal is just a normal card type, there just aren't any Tribal cards that aren't also Sorcery or Instant. You could (in theory) have a Tribal Artifact Creature - Goblin Golem
Cloak and Dagger is a Tribal Artifact.
Just put it this way.
Artifacts dualtypes with creature, enchantment, land, and tribal.
Creature dualtypes with artifact, enchantment, and land.
Enchantment dualtypes with artifact, creature, and tribal.
Instant only dualtypes with tribal.
Land dualtypes with artifact and creature.
Planeswalker doesn't dualtype with anything.
Sorcery only dualtypes with tribal.
Tribal dualtypes with artifact, enchantment, instant, and sorcery.
But what exactly is so complex about the tribal cards? Imagine for a second if those cards you mentioned had the tribal supertype. When you're casting any of those spells in a tribal deck it's obvious what they do and what they interact with. And when you're not playing tribal, then the supertype is simply irrelevant and you move on with the game, just like a creature being a "Goblin" doesn't matter if there's nothing to interact with that creature type. I recall MaRo saying that new players would find it confusing or something along those lines, but that's such a lame excuse. It's not like they have to understand the layer system to play with those cards, for Christ's sake.
As I see it, the problem isn't that the supertype isn't needed in existing cards, it's that they just won't make it so through new cards that could potentially care about tribal. That is, they were playtesting with tribal cards that don't interact in any meaningful way because God knows why. And honestly, the worse thing is that it's so easy to make tribal supporting cards beyond those fringe-y interactions you talk about. Really, the new Eldrazi decks are there to prove it. By merely printing cards like Eye of Ugin/Eldrazi Temple for other tribes they would instantly make tribal worth it. Then all they would need to do is write "tribal" in some new spells and it's done. Cavern of Souls, for another example, could've worked for the same end, if only it wasn't limited to creature spells.
There is an issue with understanding for new players. If you play Elvish Promenade with an empty field, you still get an Elf token, right? After all, if you have two Boggart Shenanigans and one is destroyed, the other should trigger.
Third issue is card space. There's only so much space on the type line, and they've created their own font for it. "Legendary Enchantment Creature - God" barely fit. Eldrazi Conscription didn't have much wiggle room. And imagine if it was for something Simic, so it's a 'fish mutant' or worse.
All that in mind, I think that as long as it's done sparingly and mostly in supplements, I think they should do it. They only touched on it once since Lorwyn/Shadowmoor, but that showed they aren't entirely opposed to it. And they have had it in reprints as well. So it's not like it's as hated as banding. Or phasing. etc etc.
I agree it's super easy for us to get it. And I personally love all the possible interactions Tribal spells provide. But caring about new players is EXTREMELY important for the game. Players quit the game for all sorts of reasons, so if you don't have new players coming in it will ultimately kill the game.
Now, what's so complicated about Tribal? Not much, really, but it adds an extra layer of complexity on something that already have tons of other layers. In a set like Lorwyn the type Tribal makes lots of sense, in a set like Scars of Mirrodin there's not much use for it. But still, once you start using it you have to keep using it. The result is tons of cards with a piece of information that doesn't matter at all.
Sure it would be sweet to use General Tazri to tutor for March from the Tomb or even sweeter to activate Skyshroud Poacher's ability to put an Elvish Guidance directly into play. But they've chosen to sacrifice some possible interactions in favor of keeping the game more accessible.
Commander: WUBRG Superfriends, GW Rhys Tokens, WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Kitchen Table (now that's real Magic): WUBRG Domain, GU Biovisionary, UB Korlash Grandeur, UW Merfolk Mill
If you play Elvish Promenade and you don't have any elves in play you won't get the Elf token, because it only checks for permanents and not spells that were on the stack before its resolution. The Boggart Shenanigans triggers because it's a permanent in play when the other one goes to the graveyard.
While I think it's highly unlikely that they'd ever have to print something like a Legendary Enchantment Creature — Fish Mutant God, I can't say I don't secretly wish they did.
Your argument makes perfect sense, Wizards has to take accessibility into consideration or else the game is doomed. But if people quit because they find tribal too complicated I'd be surprised if they were okay with learning about how things like the stack and priority work.
Every single time they add some new mechanic or Type...call it a 'layer' or a 'complication', whatever you want to.. Every single one of those things has to 'carry its own weight' metaphorically speaking. OK, so Tribal adds some flavor and lends some synergy to tribes. That's great. However, it is lending those things to design space that frankly doesn't hurt for either of these things in the first place. Tribes are both hugely flavorful and HUGELY synergistic already without even trying.
Now, with that in mind, please also remember that putting Tribal into a standard-legal surely impacts the Limited environment in which it lives. You suddenly have to include all sorts of randomly-assigned Tribal stuff (or something like Changelings) just to make it work. That's a real cost and usually it's a negative. Devoid is a pretty good recent example of this. It's literally meaningless text in the text box that exists to help glue everything together in the Limited environment. Yes, it has some interesting interactions in constructed applications but Devoid doesn't really carry it's own weight outside in a very similar way to Tribal.
I think folks who really fight for it really like tribal decks (small t) and would like to see them get additional love and juice and complexity. Tribal (large t) certainly does that, but again, it doesn't do enough besides that make it worth turning a set completely upside down to include it at a large level. "Well, OK Morphling, then just don't do it at a large level. Just do it.." "On a small level.." "Oh." See where this goes? What's the point of doing it at all then?
Last thought: It has a very vocal base of support (again, I really liked it) and I know MaRo knows this. Based on this, I am very confident we WILL yet see some more Tribal cards (large t) but only in supplemental set(s) and (I'm guessing) probably only fun one-shots like Eldrazi Conscription. Although, come to think of it.. I could see it for Commander or something maybe--hell, all five decks. Tribal-themed Commander product? What would folks here think of that?
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That would be awesome, specially if they used the original five tribes from Alpha.
Uh, What?
Bitterblossom. Diviner's Wand. Boggart Shenanigans.
There are lots of Tribal cards that are not instants and sorceries.
===
Although Tribal reads as an adjective, which is typically thought of as supertypes, it is not.
Subtypes have to be paired with card types, not supertypes. That is why Tribal is a type. It shares the same subtypes as the Creature type, just as Instant and Sorceries can share their sub-types.
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I guess it is more a "giving up trying to learn" than actually quiting something they already play. People are not that dumb as it may seem from my first post, they can learn pretty complex stuff. The problem is how much complexity you present them at once.
The layer system is so complex that even competitive players have a hard time figuring out how it works. But this is something a new player will probably not need to care during his first games. That's why the "New World Order" limits how complex commons can be (cause most cards a new player will see are commons) and leave the weird shenanigans to higher rarities.
Maybe Tribal would be ok at Rare/Mythic. Maybe even Uncommon. But it would be weird that some obviously tribal-ish spells at Common don't get the appropiate subtype (like Krenko's Command maybe) while similar higher rarity spells does (like Hordeling Outburst)
Commander: WUBRG Superfriends, GW Rhys Tokens, WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Kitchen Table (now that's real Magic): WUBRG Domain, GU Biovisionary, UB Korlash Grandeur, UW Merfolk Mill
I still have problems wrapping my head around setting power and toughness. Most of my friends still use dice to mark total (headache when you have anything that deals with counters), but it gets significantly weird when you have out a few cards that set P/T to different values, with different controllers, and have other boosts.
Godhead of Awe is simple. But add in a Darksteel Mutation and a few others with different controllers and everyone argues each turn. Though fun with a few Wild Beastmasters in play.
But the people behind the barrier knew.