As far as the "shrew" point goes, while yes, both definitions are true, I believe we have to think about who is writing them. I would assume that the Magic writers have read an extensive amount of literature (-and since they commonly draw inspiration from many authors and novels, I'd say that's true), so they would put more thought into their words- more meaning. Innistrad has elements of gothic horror, which stems from the Victorian Period in England. A few hundred years prior to Queen Victoria, Shakespeare wrote a famous play called, "The Taming of the Shrew." Into the 1800s, the word shrew was still being used commonly in British literature. Put into context with the quote, I couldn't doubt more highly that the meaning of the word they are using is a rodent.
Good point.
Doing a quick search, the only other card that has the word "shrew" in its flavor text is Jawbone Skulkin, where it's clearly applied to mean the animal. I think that would also be the case of Mad Prophet if not for the mention of a voice as whispering thunder. Up until the five-legged part, you're inclined to interpret shrew as a rodent, comparing it to the heron. And they could easily have left it like that. Why then would they add that last part if not to make a word that already has two meanings more ambiguous? This, combined with what we know about the mad oracle trope, the fact that a card like that is from Avacyn Restored, and the fact that they could've chosen any other animal are good reasons to believe that Mad Prophet's flavor text actually means something, even if it ends up having nothing to do with Marit Lage or Emrakul.
I don't really think I'm ignoring the problems with the theory; I was completely honest when I said that looking into the Mad Prophet's paper was getting into crazy territory. As far as the "shrew" point goes, while yes, both definitions are true, I believe we have to think about who is writing them. I would assume that the Magic writers have read an extensive amount of literature (-and since they commonly draw inspiration from many authors and novels, I'd say that's true), so they would put more thought into their words- more meaning. Innistrad has elements of gothic horror, which stems from the Victorian Period in England. A few hundred years prior to Queen Victoria, Shakespeare wrote a famous play called, "The Taming of the Shrew." Into the 1800s, the word shrew was still being used commonly in British literature. Put into context with the quote, I couldn't doubt more highly that the meaning of the word they are using is a rodent.
You're talking like the flavor text writers always make sure to stuff as much depth and meaning into every bit of flavor text. Sometimes they just phone it in. Sometimes you get Gorilla Titan.
I don't really think I'm ignoring the problems with the theory; I was completely honest when I said that looking into the Mad Prophet's paper was getting into crazy territory. As far as the "shrew" point goes, while yes, both definitions are true, I believe we have to think about who is writing them. I would assume that the Magic writers have read an extensive amount of literature (-and since they commonly draw inspiration from many authors and novels, I'd say that's true), so they would put more thought into their words- more meaning. Innistrad has elements of gothic horror, which stems from the Victorian Period in England. A few hundred years prior to Queen Victoria, Shakespeare wrote a famous play called, "The Taming of the Shrew." Into the 1800s, the word shrew was still being used commonly in British literature. Put into context with the quote, I couldn't doubt more highly that the meaning of the word they are using is a rodent.
You're talking like the flavor text writers always make sure to stuff as much depth and meaning into every bit of flavor text. Sometimes they just phone it in. Sometimes you get Gorilla Titan.
Yes, Gorilla titan is clearly the benchmark for current attention to detail in creative.
Gorilla Titan was clearly a hint towards the delve mechanic and Tasigur, the Golden Fang. It is so obvious:
1)It synergies well with delve.
2)It is an Ape so is Hooting Mandrills:boom!
3)Tasigur ends up having the aforementioned banana next to him.
Arguing that Marit Lage is an Eldrazi is akin to arguing that an Ant is an Elephant.
Six blind men were asked to determine what an elephant looked like by feeling different parts of the elephant's body. The blind man who feels a leg says the elephant is like a pillar; the one who feels the tail says the elephant is like a rope; the one who feels the trunk says the elephant is like a tree branch; the one who feels the ear says the elephant is like a hand fan; the one who feels the belly says the elephant is like a wall; and the one who feels the tusk says the elephant is like a solid pipe.
The Eldrazi race is more than any one Titan, like ants, the queen commands others like cells rather than individuals. The separate Eldrazi can be different. Just like you and I are very different, but still human (or troll, in your case).
You are missing my point, again. Marit Lage is not a world devourer, the Eldrazi *are*. Marit Lage is actively malicious towards mortals, the Eldrazi couldn't care less about mortals, if they are even capable of making that distinction with their incomprehensible minds, if they even have minds in the sense that we do. The only reason the Eldrazi even reacted to the planeswalkers was because they managed to actually affect them. It is clearly seen with Kiora's battle against Kozilek just how little regard they have for mortals. It killed Lorthos because it was a threat and completely ignored Kiora much like a human would ignore an ant.
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
Arguing that Marit Lage is an Eldrazi is akin to arguing that an Ant is an Elephant.
Six blind men were asked to determine what an elephant looked like by feeling different parts of the elephant's body. The blind man who feels a leg says the elephant is like a pillar; the one who feels the tail says the elephant is like a rope; the one who feels the trunk says the elephant is like a tree branch; the one who feels the ear says the elephant is like a hand fan; the one who feels the belly says the elephant is like a wall; and the one who feels the tusk says the elephant is like a solid pipe.
The Eldrazi race is more than any one Titan, like ants, the queen commands others like cells rather than individuals. The separate Eldrazi can be different. Just like you and I are very different, but still human (or troll, in your case).
You are missing my point, again. Marit Lage is not a world devourer, the Eldrazi *are*. Marit Lage is actively malicious towards mortals, the Eldrazi couldn't care less about mortals, if they are even capable of making that distinction with their incomprehensible minds, if they even have minds in the sense that we do. The only reason the Eldrazi even reacted to the planeswalkers was because they managed to actually affect them. It is clearly seen with Kiora's battle against Kozilek just how little regard they have for mortals. It killed Lorthos because it was a threat and completely ignored Kiora much like a human would ignore an ant.
You as a person don't tend to react directly to germs. But you do have white blood cells for that purpose. Your issue, Krishnath, is that you still think of the Titans as separate, complete beings. It seems more like they're organs of a much larger entity. Ulamog, for instance, is a stomach.
You as a person don't tend to react directly to germs. But you do have white blood cells for that purpose. Your issue, Krishnath, is that you still think of the Titans as separate, complete beings. It seems more like they're organs of a much larger entity. Ulamog, for instance, is a stomach.
While that is sortof a possibility regarding the titans, Ugin said the each titan's brood were like different organs and cells of the one titan but that each of the 3 titan's was a separate entity. But he also didn't figure on dragging the entire entity into the plane to kill it, either. That actually seems to reinforce their separateness, because Emrakul didn't get dragged in along with them.
I don't really think I'm ignoring the problems with the theory; I was completely honest when I said that looking into the Mad Prophet's paper was getting into crazy territory. As far as the "shrew" point goes, while yes, both definitions are true, I believe we have to think about who is writing them. I would assume that the Magic writers have read an extensive amount of literature (-and since they commonly draw inspiration from many authors and novels, I'd say that's true), so they would put more thought into their words- more meaning. Innistrad has elements of gothic horror, which stems from the Victorian Period in England. A few hundred years prior to Queen Victoria, Shakespeare wrote a famous play called, "The Taming of the Shrew." Into the 1800s, the word shrew was still being used commonly in British literature. Put into context with the quote, I couldn't doubt more highly that the meaning of the word they are using is a rodent.
You're talking like the flavor text writers always make sure to stuff as much depth and meaning into every bit of flavor text. Sometimes they just phone it in. Sometimes you get Gorilla Titan.
Yes, Gorilla titan is clearly the benchmark for current attention to detail in creative.
With the current quality of both planning and execution of the story, I am going to ignore the implied sarcasm, take the statement literally and wholeheartedly agree with you on this one.
Also, to be at least a bit on topic, I am going to agree with krishnath on Marit Lage and Emrakul being so vastly different in their behaviour to not be one and the same. There is just no reason whatsoever to believe Marit Lage is an eldrazi. Did she (is she a she?) try to devour Dominaria? (this is not a rhetorical question - was there ever any information on this?) Also, mechanics-wise, Marit Lage is black. That goes against the very basic premise of eldrazi being colorless.
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I don't think Marit Lage is going to be in the story again right now. The most likely situation, in my opinion, is that they'll keep the line drawn between older magic sets (when everything was Dominaria) and newer sets in terms of story until we go back to Dominaria in a Standard set. They'll use a return to Dominaria as both introduction of new players to old sets and a love letter to older players who remember them. That's when we'll see some older characters get a status update, not something like Marit Lage suddenly being on Innistrad for who knows why.
New Theory: The Moon is a(the?)Mirari .
It fits its shape and most of the impact it might have on Innistrad, plus the flavor connection between Innistrad and Odyssey block.
Mirari's wake art in conspiracy does look like another such artifact might be the size of the moon and look like one, its presence in the set, even if supplemental suggests some nonmemnarch Miraris exist in the multiverse, and all the Tamiyo research could have been about this...
While I am not disputing the moon can be Mirari-like (though I do not see it granting wishes right and left), it's certainly not going to be a/the Mirari, as Mirari was a unique artifact created by Karn to be a probe (with the intention misfiring horribly).
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New Theory: The Moon is a(the?)Mirari .
It fits its shape and most of the impact it might have on Innistrad, plus the flavor connection between Innistrad and Odyssey block.
Mirari's wake art in conspiracy does look like another such artifact might be the size of the moon and look like one, its presence in the set, even if supplemental suggests some nonmemnarch Miraris exist in the multiverse, and all the Tamiyo research could have been about this...
While I am not disputing the moon can be Mirari-like (though I do not see it granting wishes right and left), it's certainly not going to be a/the Mirari, as Mirari was a unique artifact created by Karn to be a probe (with the intention misfiring horribly).
Karn could create another one, couldn't he? (Or someone else like Bolas based on Karn's creation)
Can't argue with that. Though it seems that the moon has been a part of Innistrad for quite some time now. I'd say it is more likely to be the other way around - Karn creating Mirari on the basis of Innistrad's moon.
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There's another reason why it's likely to be Emrakul: Angels. Angels were the thing associated with Emeria on Zendikar. Innstrad is a plane full of angels. The link there is the kind of thing Wizards doesn't like to pass up. Heron is also a reference, and that kind of fits with it being not an angel but something people think is an angel.
That said, I doubt it's Emrakul. I think the whole thing is more metaphorical than that, and just going "Lol 5 legs must be an Eldrazi" is rather... cheap.
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Cyme we inne frið, fram the grip of deaþ to lif inne ðis smylte land.
There's another reason why it's likely to be Emrakul: Angels. Angels were the thing associated with Emeria on Zendikar. Innstrad is a plane full of angels. The link there is the kind of thing Wizards doesn't like to pass up. Heron is also a reference, and that kind of fits with it being not an angel but something people think is an angel.
That said, I doubt it's Emrakul. I think the whole thing is more metaphorical than that, and just going "Lol 5 legs must be an Eldrazi" is rather... cheap.
Also last night's spoiled card shows how angels have all been corrupted. The picture on the card even shows a person trying to kill and angel. So in this new Innistrad, angels are the evil. Maybe Demons will be the "good guys?"
Clip Wings
1G
Instant
Each opponent sacrifices a creature with flying.
It is a grim duty to save the world from those created to protect it.
Illus. Howard Lyon
Updated with correct card info.
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All your base are belong to us!
RIP Batman guy. I hope somebody picks up the slack now that you are gone. Sick children need their Batman.
I don't know about angels linking Emrakul to Innistrad. The reason why she's related to angels in Zendikar is because they worshiped a fake memory of what she was, but here it'd just be like she's passing by, travelling the Blind Eternities, minding her own business, and accidentally bumps into a new plane full of angels to mess with again. It's the kinda of thing you'd expect from Liliana and not from Emrakul, who has no personal feelings (or any other kind of feelings, as far as we know) for angels.
Not saying that it would stop Wizards from making that association, but still.
I always thought Innistrad's moon was made of silver? Kinda a big retcon to say now it's actually a giant ball of Eldrazi.
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No, you're right, that's what the denizens of Innistrad believe. Emrakul wouldn't have been there the last time around. Maybe she was attracted by the special silver of the moon.
I always thought Innistrad's moon was made of silver? Kinda a big retcon to say now it's actually a giant ball of Eldrazi.
It would be a retcon if that was actually what people were speculating. The large number of people refer to the fact that silver has special binding properties on Innistrad as has been showcased on at least two named artifacts: Helvault and Elbrus.
Regardless of whether this is true for otherwise generic silver while on Innistrad or whether this is a property of special "moon silver" the belief is that Innistrad's moon is made up from this material with a known binding quality. The speculation is that one of two things will be happening: a) it is revealed that some large evil is already bound in the moon; or b) the moon will bind a large evil at some point during the storyline.
Either way the moon supposedly would be used as an oversized Helvault. Considering that one way Eldrazi have been handled in the past was imprisoning them and considering that it is unlikely that the loose thread of Emrakul is not addressed soon (considering statements from WotC spokespeople that the new paradigm of two-blocks per year and a new focus on continuous story arcs allows to tie up loose ends more quickly) Emrakul has been put forward as a possible candidate for the large evil that at some point is imprisoned in the moon.
Yet, just as the Helvault was silver and was not made up of the limbs of demons, the moon still would be silver and not "a giant ball of Eldrazi".
Also last night's spoiled card shows how angels have all been corrupted. The picture on the card even shows a person trying to kill and angel. So in this new Innistrad, angels are the evil.
Didn't we know that since Fiery Temper and also strongly suspect that since the first reveal of the Shadows over Innistrad trailer? As far as I know the ongoing speculation has always been "some big evil in the background is causing the inhabitants of Innistrad to go mad - and the Angels becoming overzealous in their persecution might just be one way thi shows".
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
There's another reason why it's likely to be Emrakul: Angels. Angels were the thing associated with Emeria on Zendikar. Innstrad is a plane full of angels. The link there is the kind of thing Wizards doesn't like to pass up. Heron is also a reference, and that kind of fits with it being not an angel but something people think is an angel.
That said, I doubt it's Emrakul. I think the whole thing is more metaphorical than that, and just going "Lol 5 legs must be an Eldrazi" is rather... cheap.
Also last night's spoiled card shows how angels have all been corrupted. The picture on the card even shows a person trying to kill and angel. So in this new Innistrad, angels are the evil. Maybe Demons will be the "good guys?"
Clip Wings
1G
Instant
Each opponent sacrifices a creature with flying.
It is a grim duty to save the world from those created to protect it.
Illus. Howard Lyon
Updated with correct card info.
I wouldn't go for the reversed roles argument yet.
Let's look at it from color philosophy angle: angels are white mana constructs, right? Therefore, they should personalize the philosophy of white quite neatly. Them going after humans might be just pure overzealousness (as stated by SectretInfiltrator and possibly supported by Fiery Temper's flavor text), or they might have decided that the only way to defeat the evil of Innistrad is to wipe out humans - no humans means no food for vampires, nobody to raise ghouls/animate skaabs, no more werewolves, heck, even no more demon worshipers.
On the other hand, while demons might be sort-of helpful in some way, them being the good guys here is also very unlikely (unless we're in the kill all humans scenario and demons come to a conclusion that they need worshipers).
People trying to kill an angel doesn't really tell us anything due to highly limited amount of information we have available. They might be some of the cathars who decided to break away and hunt down wolfir (playing the devil's advocate here, the angel in the illustration does look bananas).
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It's interesting to note that the flavor text on Clip Wings talks about saving the world from angels instead of just saving mankind. While it's a reasonable assumption to say that "the world" in this context means humanity because the flavor provides a human perspective, I wouldn't discard the possibility that the angels are crashing this plane with no survivors.
Theory time:
They'll try to Majora's Mask the moon on Innistrad and cause a major planar disruption (because the moon is made of that metal). It just so happens that the moon was also at the other end of that portal in Ulgrotha, so their plan backfires and Innistrad becomes Innisgrotha (or Ulgrotrad). Blablabla, Apocalypse Chime, the angels are dead, Sengir rules supreme over the black megaplane, and Marit Lage gets stuck in a glacier again.
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Good point.
Doing a quick search, the only other card that has the word "shrew" in its flavor text is Jawbone Skulkin, where it's clearly applied to mean the animal. I think that would also be the case of Mad Prophet if not for the mention of a voice as whispering thunder. Up until the five-legged part, you're inclined to interpret shrew as a rodent, comparing it to the heron. And they could easily have left it like that. Why then would they add that last part if not to make a word that already has two meanings more ambiguous? This, combined with what we know about the mad oracle trope, the fact that a card like that is from Avacyn Restored, and the fact that they could've chosen any other animal are good reasons to believe that Mad Prophet's flavor text actually means something, even if it ends up having nothing to do with Marit Lage or Emrakul.
Yes, Gorilla titan is clearly the benchmark for current attention to detail in creative.
Yeah but Tasigur, the golden fang's banana wasn't big enough for the Gorilla titan. Just look at how outstretched his arms are and compare it to Tasigur, the golden fang's bananas. He is obviously lacking as far as the gorilla is concerned.
RIP Batman guy. I hope somebody picks up the slack now that you are gone. Sick children need their Batman.
You are missing my point, again. Marit Lage is not a world devourer, the Eldrazi *are*. Marit Lage is actively malicious towards mortals, the Eldrazi couldn't care less about mortals, if they are even capable of making that distinction with their incomprehensible minds, if they even have minds in the sense that we do. The only reason the Eldrazi even reacted to the planeswalkers was because they managed to actually affect them. It is clearly seen with Kiora's battle against Kozilek just how little regard they have for mortals. It killed Lorthos because it was a threat and completely ignored Kiora much like a human would ignore an ant.
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You as a person don't tend to react directly to germs. But you do have white blood cells for that purpose. Your issue, Krishnath, is that you still think of the Titans as separate, complete beings. It seems more like they're organs of a much larger entity. Ulamog, for instance, is a stomach.
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With the current quality of both planning and execution of the story, I am going to ignore the implied sarcasm, take the statement literally and wholeheartedly agree with you on this one.
Also, to be at least a bit on topic, I am going to agree with krishnath on Marit Lage and Emrakul being so vastly different in their behaviour to not be one and the same. There is just no reason whatsoever to believe Marit Lage is an eldrazi. Did she (is she a she?) try to devour Dominaria? (this is not a rhetorical question - was there ever any information on this?) Also, mechanics-wise, Marit Lage is black. That goes against the very basic premise of eldrazi being colorless.
BUG The Baron (it doesn't work, but I try anyway)
modern:
RGShaman Aggro
legacy:
UHigh Tide
German highlander:
BUG aggro control
EDH:
a positively unhealthy amount of decks
Because ph'nglui mglw'nafh Marit Lage Innistrad wgah'nagl fhtagn, that's why.
While I am not disputing the moon can be Mirari-like (though I do not see it granting wishes right and left), it's certainly not going to be a/the Mirari, as Mirari was a unique artifact created by Karn to be a probe (with the intention misfiring horribly).
BUG The Baron (it doesn't work, but I try anyway)
modern:
RGShaman Aggro
legacy:
UHigh Tide
German highlander:
BUG aggro control
EDH:
a positively unhealthy amount of decks
Can't argue with that. Though it seems that the moon has been a part of Innistrad for quite some time now. I'd say it is more likely to be the other way around - Karn creating Mirari on the basis of Innistrad's moon.
BUG The Baron (it doesn't work, but I try anyway)
modern:
RGShaman Aggro
legacy:
UHigh Tide
German highlander:
BUG aggro control
EDH:
a positively unhealthy amount of decks
GXTronGX
RWxBurnRWx
That said, I doubt it's Emrakul. I think the whole thing is more metaphorical than that, and just going "Lol 5 legs must be an Eldrazi" is rather... cheap.
Also last night's spoiled card shows how angels have all been corrupted. The picture on the card even shows a person trying to kill and angel. So in this new Innistrad, angels are the evil. Maybe Demons will be the "good guys?"
Clip Wings
1G
Instant
Each opponent sacrifices a creature with flying.
It is a grim duty to save the world from those created to protect it.
Illus. Howard Lyon
Updated with correct card info.
RIP Batman guy. I hope somebody picks up the slack now that you are gone. Sick children need their Batman.
Not saying that it would stop Wizards from making that association, but still.
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You have to explain where this non sequitur comes from.
It would be a retcon if that was actually what people were speculating. The large number of people refer to the fact that silver has special binding properties on Innistrad as has been showcased on at least two named artifacts: Helvault and Elbrus.
Regardless of whether this is true for otherwise generic silver while on Innistrad or whether this is a property of special "moon silver" the belief is that Innistrad's moon is made up from this material with a known binding quality. The speculation is that one of two things will be happening: a) it is revealed that some large evil is already bound in the moon; or b) the moon will bind a large evil at some point during the storyline.
Either way the moon supposedly would be used as an oversized Helvault. Considering that one way Eldrazi have been handled in the past was imprisoning them and considering that it is unlikely that the loose thread of Emrakul is not addressed soon (considering statements from WotC spokespeople that the new paradigm of two-blocks per year and a new focus on continuous story arcs allows to tie up loose ends more quickly) Emrakul has been put forward as a possible candidate for the large evil that at some point is imprisoned in the moon.
Yet, just as the Helvault was silver and was not made up of the limbs of demons, the moon still would be silver and not "a giant ball of Eldrazi".
Didn't we know that since Fiery Temper and also strongly suspect that since the first reveal of the Shadows over Innistrad trailer? As far as I know the ongoing speculation has always been "some big evil in the background is causing the inhabitants of Innistrad to go mad - and the Angels becoming overzealous in their persecution might just be one way thi shows".
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
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I wouldn't go for the reversed roles argument yet.
Let's look at it from color philosophy angle: angels are white mana constructs, right? Therefore, they should personalize the philosophy of white quite neatly. Them going after humans might be just pure overzealousness (as stated by SectretInfiltrator and possibly supported by Fiery Temper's flavor text), or they might have decided that the only way to defeat the evil of Innistrad is to wipe out humans - no humans means no food for vampires, nobody to raise ghouls/animate skaabs, no more werewolves, heck, even no more demon worshipers.
On the other hand, while demons might be sort-of helpful in some way, them being the good guys here is also very unlikely (unless we're in the kill all humans scenario and demons come to a conclusion that they need worshipers).
People trying to kill an angel doesn't really tell us anything due to highly limited amount of information we have available. They might be some of the cathars who decided to break away and hunt down wolfir (playing the devil's advocate here, the angel in the illustration does look bananas).
BUG The Baron (it doesn't work, but I try anyway)
modern:
RGShaman Aggro
legacy:
UHigh Tide
German highlander:
BUG aggro control
EDH:
a positively unhealthy amount of decks
Theory time: