Maro said nothing about the 20 expeditions in OGW, his quote about 2 cycles of 10 referred to the 20 other BFZ ones after the first 5 were revealed.
Anyway, what to be expected is 2 possible likely scenarios: there are either 5 enemy-colored manlands OR 5 enemy-colored latelands (zenduals/tangos). It's extremely unlikely they will print both in one small set. And that has big implications on what the 20 OGW expeditions will be made of - because either of them are almost certain to also receive the special frame treatment.
So scenario 1: 5 enemy-colored manlands in OGW -> most lilely the full set of 10 dual manlands in the expeditions set. Then the other 10 can likely be another full set of lands, like filterlands or checklands. Such an elegant solution.
Scenario 2: 5 enemy-colored latelands complete the cycle in OGW -> almost certainly also receiving the fullart version. That leaves 15 more slots. 5 WWK manlands +10 filterlands then seem likely.
Scenario 3: No new set of rare lands in OGW worthy of getting the fullart treatment. Unlikely. But then the expeditions could be 2 sets of 10 duals or 1 set of 10 and a mix of various lands (like Wasteland and the other suggestions from this thread) as the other 10. Still a mix of various unrelated lands doesn't seem likely for me, it's somewhat inelegant.
So scenario 1: 5 enemy-colored manlands in OGW -> most lilely the full set of 10 dual manlands in the expeditions set. Then the other 10 can likely be another full set of lands, like filterlands or checklands. Such an elegant solution.
I would LOVE this however, I just tried it out - and I don't think it would work. Unless Wizards is willing to go sub 8pt type on them, it just won't fit. Here's a mock-up withOUT using the normal half line between parts of the card (compare to Lavaclaw Reaches) On the original Lavaclaw Reaches, they used 8pt, and that's smaller than they normally go.
I'll be annoyed if we don't get enemy tangolands in Oath of the Gatewatch. I think they're logical and likely, too. Random enemy or ally cycles are ok, but true duals with basic land types need to come in sets of ten. Checklands seem plausible as far as expeditions go, though that won't excite people.
First 5 cards - The enemy tango lands. Other comments about full cycles notwithstanding, WOTC has a lot riding on this set, all the money they sunk into promoting it at PAX, it being the first set in the new two-set paradigm, plus it's slightly larger. I don't think they'll let this opportunity pass to print these in Oath, and therefore they'll also be in the Expeditions.
Next 10 cards - the original 10 checklands (first seen in M10, etc). The enemy color pairs especially need reprinting as they were only in one set. Plus they reference the basic land types, and that seems to be a theme with the first batch.
Final 5 - I'm stumped. I was hoping it would come to me while I typed the first part of this post but... I got nothing.
While I'm not as emotionally invested in them as the rest of the community (just a filthy casual), the manlands seem like an otherwise logical fit.
The only other thing I can throw out is something related to the rumored colorless basic land we should be seeing soon (I'm really thinking we'll see it in Oath), so maybe some kind of five card cycle of lands with the new colorless mana type and then some other functionality to it.
Like many others, I figured the breakdown for the Oath 20 would be 5 new Enemy Duals, a 10 land cycle (I think checklands), and 5 unknown. However, with the spoiling of the new sweeper (Planar Outburst), I think I have it figured out.
It would fit side-by-side with the Awaken mechanic, as the lands would already be creatures. It would fit thematically, as the land of Zendikar itself is rising up to fight the Eldrazi. And, it would make sense given the "nonland creatures" clause of Planar Outburst.
My 1/50th of a dollar regarding this discussion.
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There's a decent chance we'll get enemy counterparts to BfZ's duals. I'm guessing Expeditions 26-40 will feature all ten of those duals.
All 10 Checklands sounds reasonable in theory, though a few cards in the cycle present possible problems.
Glacial Fortress - Presumably located on Sejiri before it got Eldrazinated. Drowned Catacomb - Easy to justify in most any watery region of Zendikar. Perhaps part of Bala Ged? Dragonskull Summit - Zendikar's got dragons and summits, so the name is easy enough to explain. Rootbound Crag - Easiest check to justify on a world like Zendikar. Sunpetal Grove - A pleasant patch of the Vastwood perhaps? Isolated Chapel - This is one of the tricker justifications. An isolated sect of Eldrazi worshippers? Sulfur Falls - Could easily be part of the same terrain as Scalding Tarn. Woodland Cemetery - Um, a part of some jungle where lots of dead things are buried? Clifftop Retreat - Now where exactly did those survivors flee to just before Gideon returned with Jace? Hinterland Harbor - Is there any part of Zendikar that would be considered hinterlands?
Filterlands are another possible ten.
Mystic Gate - Well, considering we're getting a set called Oath of the Gatewatch, presumably there's some kind of gates on Zendikar. Also, Sea Gate. Sunken Ruins - See Drowned Catacombs. Graven Cairns - Like Hinterland Harbor, this one's name feels a little too "old Europe" to fit Zendikar's flavor. Fire-Lit Thicket - Pick any campfire in Zendikar's jungles and there you go. Wooded Bastion - The survival theme's already present. Fetid Heath - Compare to Marsh Flats. Cascade Bluffs - I'm picturing a majestic seaside view that looks absolutely gorgeous. Twilight Mire - Hello, Bala Ged! Rugged Prairie - The name itself is highly appropriate. Flooded Grove - Well, Zendikar has a lot of jungle and a lot of water, so presumably there's some overlap.
Then for the last five, probably the Manlands from Worldwake, since there's a good chance we won't be seeing enemy manlands this block. They're already introducing a new land template, why waste the opportunity to support all ten pairs with it?
Were those priceless treasures given new art and flavor tied to Zendikar? I seem to recall they were simply leftover copies that Wizards redistributed as a workaround to the Reserved List. This time, the lands are set on Zendikar and so need to be flavor neutral enough to be adapted accordingly.
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Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
So scenario 1: 5 enemy-colored manlands in OGW -> most lilely the full set of 10 dual manlands in the expeditions set. Then the other 10 can likely be another full set of lands, like filterlands or checklands. Such an elegant solution.
I would LOVE this however, I just tried it out - and I don't think it would work. Unless Wizards is willing to go sub 8pt type on them, it just won't fit. Here's a mock-up withOUT using the normal half line between parts of the card (compare to Lavaclaw Reaches) On the original Lavaclaw Reaches, they used 8pt, and that's smaller than they normally go.
Strong point, but they may sneak the line up a little, or have some other trick up their sleeve to get all the text on.
It's easy.
- five enemy tangolands
- five manlands
- ten filterlands
Checklands are a more prominent part of moderns mana base compared to filterlands. And as others have pointed out filterlands conflict with what's going on in the other expeditions. Shocklands and Tangolands have land sub types and Fetchlands search for those types. You have to remember all of the expedition cards a legal in limited draft so they have to work well together on the off chance you get more than one in your packs.
Checklands well...check for those land types when they enter the battlefield. Enemy Tangolands have those types, where as manlands and filterlands don't.
More than any thing Yamahakos mockup (post #91) proves that manlands aren't really going to happen with the smaller text space on the expedition cards. And if original manlands already had to use a smaller than normal text size just to fit on regular frames, they sure as hell aren't going to go even smaller and make the card near unreadable.
I know the uncommon lands are underwhelming compared to all the others, but their the only lands that fit all the criteria where seeing from the expeditions so far.
In light of the recent reveal of enemy-colored man lands in BFZ, I will alter my prediction from earlier in this thread. I now believe the expedition lands from Oath of the Gatewatch will be:
Five enemy duals.
Ten Zendikar/BFZ man lands.
Five non-cycle rare non-legendary lands -or- The five mono-colored rare lands from Zendikar (Emeria ect.)
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
People saying Enemy Manlands can't be in cause it means 2 cycles of rare enemy duals in set 2...
Isn't there room for 5 more rare lands in BFZ?
Unless or until Wizards changes its stance on how they think standard environments ought to be designed, I don't think we'll ever see manlands in standard again - not unless their activation costs are so expensive that they're unplayable. Manlands are just too good.
Now we'll have to wait to see the others, but the Enemy Manlands are in now and the one we've seen is decent enough.
People saying Enemy Manlands can't be in cause it means 2 cycles of rare enemy duals in set 2...
Isn't there room for 5 more rare lands in BFZ?
Unless or until Wizards changes its stance on how they think standard environments ought to be designed, I don't think we'll ever see manlands in standard again - not unless their activation costs are so expensive that they're unplayable. Manlands are just too good.
Now we'll have to wait to see the others, but the Enemy Manlands are in now and the one we've seen is decent enough.
In light of the recent reveal of enemy-colored man lands in BFZ, I will alter my prediction from earlier in this thread. I now believe the expedition lands from Oath of the Gatewatch will be:
Five enemy duals.
Ten Zendikar/BFZ man lands.
Five non-cycle rare non-legendary lands -or- The five mono-colored rare lands from Zendikar (Emeria ect.)
I also see this being the most likely.
I honestly was not expecting the manlands in this set, but was in Gatewatch.
This very well could possibly bring both the ally-colored manlands in Gatewatch, as well as possibly the enemy-colored tangolands as well.
But the manlands huge amount text not fitting well on the expedition frames is still a valid counter point. They won't omit the 'T: Add C or D to your mana pool.' because the manlands don't have basic land types like the shocklands and tangolands do. They already use smaller than normal print text on the manlands with normal frames as is. I thing people are setting themselves up for disappointment, as per usual, because they ignore the logistical issue of the expeditions frames smaller text and smaller text size needed for manlands to fit normally.
Even smaller text would make manlands unreadable in expedition frames.
@ Joneleth Irenicus- It wouldn't matter if the cycle is completed or not, Misty Rainforest or Breeding Pool could easily be offset to OGW expedition cards to make room for Lumbering Falls. If its ok to offset the enemy manlands in a regular set, why would it be not ok to offset them in a non regular set that isn't actually part of the block?
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But the manlands huge amount text not fitting well on the expedition frames is still a valid counter point. They won't omit the 'T: Add C or D to your mana pool.' because the manlands don't have basic land types like the shocklands and tangolands do. They already use smaller than normal print text on the manlands with normal frames as is. I thing people are setting themselves up for disappointment, as per usual, because they ignore the logistical issue of the expeditions frames smaller text and smaller text size needed for manlands to fit normally.
Actually, I really don't care what they're "reprinting" in the special set, as I probably won't see any lands coming from them anyway :>
@ Joneleth Irenicus- It wouldn't matter if the cycle is completed or not, Misty Rainforest or Breeding Pool could easily be offset to OGW expedition cards to make room for Lumbering Falls. If its ok to offset the enemy manlands in a regular set, why would it be not ok to offset them in a non regular set that isn't actually part of the block?
Sure, I can clearly see no general disappointment on Scalding Tarn not being premium-reprinted now but later :>
As a matter of fact cycles are more pleasing, and while design/developmental concerns can lead to land cycles splits between sets in a block (or between blocks), there's nothing preventing the full cycle to be reprinted in the promotional side-set.
This gives it a 10/10 split of allied and enemy in this set and an overall 25/20 split of allied and enemy between both of the Expedition sets. The Fastlands are really the only notable cycle of five I can think of.
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I am beginning to think they can very well include the last five slow lands without actually printing them in BfZ, making us have to wait a block or so to play them in non legacy/edh formats yet keeping the balance between the expeditions they are printing. If they do so, they might print the future sight cycle as a ten card cycle of the future.
there is no Future Sight cycle, there are five individual land belonging to five different cycles with only one cycle having been made at this time.
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
Here's an idea complete the horizon canopy cycle. Sure the ones that don't exist won't be legal in modern but it would be off the rails awesome if they did it. Then we can all speculate for years as to when these cards will actually see print only for it not to happen like all those future shifted cards not named graven cairns from future sight.
With all the Shocklands and Fetchlands getting released in BFZ, they got a very small window to hit to grab my attention. They would have to do:
Cavern Of Souls
Mana Confluence
City Of Brass
And maybe a legendary land cycle that includes:
Flagstones Of Trokair
Pendelhaven
Academy Ruins
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Anyway, what to be expected is 2 possible likely scenarios: there are either 5 enemy-colored manlands OR 5 enemy-colored latelands (zenduals/tangos). It's extremely unlikely they will print both in one small set. And that has big implications on what the 20 OGW expeditions will be made of - because either of them are almost certain to also receive the special frame treatment.
So scenario 1: 5 enemy-colored manlands in OGW -> most lilely the full set of 10 dual manlands in the expeditions set. Then the other 10 can likely be another full set of lands, like filterlands or checklands. Such an elegant solution.
Scenario 2: 5 enemy-colored latelands complete the cycle in OGW -> almost certainly also receiving the fullart version. That leaves 15 more slots. 5 WWK manlands +10 filterlands then seem likely.
Scenario 3: No new set of rare lands in OGW worthy of getting the fullart treatment. Unlikely. But then the expeditions could be 2 sets of 10 duals or 1 set of 10 and a mix of various lands (like Wasteland and the other suggestions from this thread) as the other 10. Still a mix of various unrelated lands doesn't seem likely for me, it's somewhat inelegant.
I would LOVE this however, I just tried it out - and I don't think it would work. Unless Wizards is willing to go sub 8pt type on them, it just won't fit. Here's a mock-up withOUT using the normal half line between parts of the card (compare to Lavaclaw Reaches) On the original Lavaclaw Reaches, they used 8pt, and that's smaller than they normally go.
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First 5 cards - The enemy tango lands. Other comments about full cycles notwithstanding, WOTC has a lot riding on this set, all the money they sunk into promoting it at PAX, it being the first set in the new two-set paradigm, plus it's slightly larger. I don't think they'll let this opportunity pass to print these in Oath, and therefore they'll also be in the Expeditions.
Next 10 cards - the original 10 checklands (first seen in M10, etc). The enemy color pairs especially need reprinting as they were only in one set. Plus they reference the basic land types, and that seems to be a theme with the first batch.
Final 5 - I'm stumped. I was hoping it would come to me while I typed the first part of this post but... I got nothing.
While I'm not as emotionally invested in them as the rest of the community (just a filthy casual), the manlands seem like an otherwise logical fit.
The only other thing I can throw out is something related to the rumored colorless basic land we should be seeing soon (I'm really thinking we'll see it in Oath), so maybe some kind of five card cycle of lands with the new colorless mana type and then some other functionality to it.
Dryad Arbor cycle.
It would fit side-by-side with the Awaken mechanic, as the lands would already be creatures. It would fit thematically, as the land of Zendikar itself is rising up to fight the Eldrazi. And, it would make sense given the "nonland creatures" clause of Planar Outburst.
My 1/50th of a dollar regarding this discussion.
All 10 Checklands sounds reasonable in theory, though a few cards in the cycle present possible problems.
Glacial Fortress - Presumably located on Sejiri before it got Eldrazinated.
Drowned Catacomb - Easy to justify in most any watery region of Zendikar. Perhaps part of Bala Ged?
Dragonskull Summit - Zendikar's got dragons and summits, so the name is easy enough to explain.
Rootbound Crag - Easiest check to justify on a world like Zendikar.
Sunpetal Grove - A pleasant patch of the Vastwood perhaps?
Isolated Chapel - This is one of the tricker justifications. An isolated sect of Eldrazi worshippers?
Sulfur Falls - Could easily be part of the same terrain as Scalding Tarn.
Woodland Cemetery - Um, a part of some jungle where lots of dead things are buried?
Clifftop Retreat - Now where exactly did those survivors flee to just before Gideon returned with Jace?
Hinterland Harbor - Is there any part of Zendikar that would be considered hinterlands?
Filterlands are another possible ten.
Mystic Gate - Well, considering we're getting a set called Oath of the Gatewatch, presumably there's some kind of gates on Zendikar. Also, Sea Gate.
Sunken Ruins - See Drowned Catacombs.
Graven Cairns - Like Hinterland Harbor, this one's name feels a little too "old Europe" to fit Zendikar's flavor.
Fire-Lit Thicket - Pick any campfire in Zendikar's jungles and there you go.
Wooded Bastion - The survival theme's already present.
Fetid Heath - Compare to Marsh Flats.
Cascade Bluffs - I'm picturing a majestic seaside view that looks absolutely gorgeous.
Twilight Mire - Hello, Bala Ged!
Rugged Prairie - The name itself is highly appropriate.
Flooded Grove - Well, Zendikar has a lot of jungle and a lot of water, so presumably there's some overlap.
Then for the last five, probably the Manlands from Worldwake, since there's a good chance we won't be seeing enemy manlands this block. They're already introducing a new land template, why waste the opportunity to support all ten pairs with it?
Were those priceless treasures given new art and flavor tied to Zendikar? I seem to recall they were simply leftover copies that Wizards redistributed as a workaround to the Reserved List. This time, the lands are set on Zendikar and so need to be flavor neutral enough to be adapted accordingly.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
Strong point, but they may sneak the line up a little, or have some other trick up their sleeve to get all the text on.
Checklands are a more prominent part of moderns mana base compared to filterlands. And as others have pointed out filterlands conflict with what's going on in the other expeditions. Shocklands and Tangolands have land sub types and Fetchlands search for those types. You have to remember all of the expedition cards a legal in limited draft so they have to work well together on the off chance you get more than one in your packs.
Checklands well...check for those land types when they enter the battlefield. Enemy Tangolands have those types, where as manlands and filterlands don't.
More than any thing Yamahakos mockup (post #91) proves that manlands aren't really going to happen with the smaller text space on the expedition cards. And if original manlands already had to use a smaller than normal text size just to fit on regular frames, they sure as hell aren't going to go even smaller and make the card near unreadable.
So the more realistic list seems to be
5 enemy tangolands
10 checklands
5 Shadowmoor uncommon lands (Mistveil Plains,Moonring Island,Leechridden Swamp,Madblind Mountain & Sapseep Forest)
I know the uncommon lands are underwhelming compared to all the others, but their the only lands that fit all the criteria where seeing from the expeditions so far.
BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
Five enemy duals.
Ten Zendikar/BFZ man lands.
Five non-cycle rare non-legendary lands -or- The five mono-colored rare lands from Zendikar (Emeria ect.)
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Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
Now we'll have to wait to see the others, but the Enemy Manlands are in now and the one we've seen is decent enough.
Heh, yep. I stand happily corrected, Wizards.
I also see this being the most likely.
I honestly was not expecting the manlands in this set, but was in Gatewatch.
This very well could possibly bring both the ally-colored manlands in Gatewatch, as well as possibly the enemy-colored tangolands as well.
Or could mean nothing, but I see it possible.
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How so? It is very likely I believe that the whole cycle will be available in the next set for the expeditions.
Just a guess, but might it have to do with the 5 allied tangolands being in the first set for expeditions, and the enemy manlands are not?
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5 Enemy Slowlands (seems obvious to me)
10 Manlands (practically confirmed by now)
5 Valakut Cycle (Emeria, Magosi, Agadeem, Valakut, and Oran-Rief)
The point is enemy manlands are divided between BFZ and OGW, so they couldn't include them as Expeditions in BFZ when the cycle is not yet completed.
Source: http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/128567410518/is-bfz-going-to-have-all-5-enemy-colors-manlands
Even smaller text would make manlands unreadable in expedition frames.
@ Joneleth Irenicus- It wouldn't matter if the cycle is completed or not, Misty Rainforest or Breeding Pool could easily be offset to OGW expedition cards to make room for Lumbering Falls. If its ok to offset the enemy manlands in a regular set, why would it be not ok to offset them in a non regular set that isn't actually part of the block?
BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
Actually, I really don't care what they're "reprinting" in the special set, as I probably won't see any lands coming from them anyway :>
Sure, I can clearly see no general disappointment on Scalding Tarn not being premium-reprinted now but later :>
As a matter of fact cycles are more pleasing, and while design/developmental concerns can lead to land cycles splits between sets in a block (or between blocks), there's nothing preventing the full cycle to be reprinted in the promotional side-set.
5 Enemy "tango" lands
10 Manduals
5 Scars Fastlands
This gives it a 10/10 split of allied and enemy in this set and an overall 25/20 split of allied and enemy between both of the Expedition sets. The Fastlands are really the only notable cycle of five I can think of.
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there is no Future Sight cycle, there are five individual land belonging to five different cycles with only one cycle having been made at this time.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
Cavern Of Souls
Mana Confluence
City Of Brass
And maybe a legendary land cycle that includes:
Flagstones Of Trokair
Pendelhaven
Academy Ruins