We know the five planeswalkers for the set and have an example of how they flip thanks to Liliana, Heretical Healer. One thought exercise that has been floating around my LGS is how each of the other 4 walkers could flip. Here are my ideas after some thought, curious to see what others think BEFORE any more spoilers arrive.
Gideon - Combat damage to a player / multiple creatures attacking along with him
Jace - Drawing 1 or 2 more cards beyond your first in a turn / milling the opponent (please not this!)
Liliana - Known
Chandra - Burning down a creature / X damage to a player
Nissa - Controlling X number of creatures (maybe keyed to green creatures specifically) / playing multiple lands in a turn
From a pure mechanical point of view your ideas might fit. But I think the transformations will be more on the flavor side of "How did their spark actually ignite"
Here's what I think:
Gideon - I think both of you are close, but the other way round. I think it'll more likely be When YOU get combat damage (Or possibly any damage for that matter).
Reason: it's not known yet, but I could imagine Gideon's spark igniting when someone got hurt because of a mistake he made.
Jace - atm I'm with - When you discard a card or (unlikely) If you have no cards in hand.
Reason: So far we know that Jace has lost a lot of his memory from before he was a walker. The discard or empty hand would signify that.
Liliana - Yeah, I guess she lost someone dear and wanted them back trying (would fit the zombie token)
Chandra - When Chandra dies.
Reason: We already know how hear spark ignited from Purifying Fire - She was to be beheaded after setting her home village on fire
Nissa - Since we have no information about her origin I have no clue. But they changed her focus from elves to land, so I'm guessing will have sth to do with lands instead of elves
Apparently Gideons spark was ignited surprisingly through meditation. More than likely his trigger is based on not getting damaged for a turn, either you or him possibly both.
The no cards in hand seems appropriate for Jace.
Chandras is tough. A creature dying is Lilianas trigger so I don't see Chandras being so similar. I could honestly see hers being "T , sacrifice a land you control: Chandra deals 3 damage to each player and 1 damage to each other creature, transform Chandra."
Nissas really is anyones guess though. Didn't read Teeth of Akuom, but to my knowledge it didn't state anything about how her spark ignited.
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WOut of the ground,I rise to grace...W BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
I personally find it hard to believe that Jace's trigger should be associated with an empty hand considering his color. I get the flavor perspective but it would play SOOO immensely badly in his colors to empty your hand. Personally I could see it being something regarding the stack, like "when there are two (or three) or more spells on the stack, flip 'Jace, X'."
It could be interesting to put Jace's Archivist-esque ability into the mix. Something easy to accomplish. Then discard your hand and draw X cards, where X is equal to the number of cards you discarded this way. Then flip Jace and put X loyalty counters on him. His planeswalker form could then have 0 or 1 starting loyalty.
I doubt they'd do it, especially with a variable loyalty count. Regardless it could be awesome.
As for Gideon it seems likely that his is based around combat. Perhaps "Whenever a player attacks with three or more creatures, if you are either an attacking or defending player, flip 'Gideon, X' at end of combat". If being attacked it would protect his planeswalker form to first flip after attackers declared, and he can help trigger it himself by attacking but risking to get killed before he flips. All seems like a fine risk-calculation in line with his previous planeswalker forms.
I doubt that Chandra's will be a straight up death-trigger. It would be too cheap IMO. I wonder if it could be based around noncombat damage. Like "Whenever Chandra, X is dealt noncombat damage, prevent that damage and flip her.". It would be relatively easy to achieve through a Bolt or a Pyroclasm but it might not be the best circumstances to use it in. Her planeswalker form could also reflect that in some way.
As for Nissa, we don't really know what ignited her spark, except it was in her youth (elf youth is long however) and that she was insanely curious and explored a lot. That seems to fit the theme of lands, however I think it would be more original to not fall into the "Have you had two or more lands enter the battlefield? Then you may flip" almost cliche type for green. Perhaps it will be connected to the amounts of lands you control or to pour straight up mana into her for the transformation. Flavorwise it wouldn't be a certain homerun to just pour mana into her until she ignites her spark but it exemplifies the use of lands without going into "Did you cast Rampant Growth, Explore, Kodama's Reach or Cultivate?"-territory.
One thing to notice though. Liliana's requirement is relatively easy to fulfill, although it does require some assistance - either a friendly opponent who kills one of your other creeps or some kind of sac outlet, whilst we just received Exploit. So the question is if the others are just as easy to fulfill but to be sure would require some specific deck building?
I agree with Evo_Kaer that the flip triggers will likely be more story-oriented. Liliana's flip trigger is an interpretation of how in her origin story, she gave her brother Jozu a botched healing potion that zombified him instead of healing him. I think the other walkers will follow suit.
Gideon sparked after he stopped a foe that Gideon felt far surpassed him in power. His flip trigger should definitely reflect that. It will likely involve some sort of interaction with a creature with power 4 or greater. Gideon is a hieromancer, so my guess is that he has some sort of damage prevention or creature tapping ability akin to Gideon's Lawkeeper, and when he stops a big creature with it he flips.
Jace's trigger is unknown, but he is a mind mage so it will likely involve milling for better or worse.
Chandra's written story is different than the one presented in the Magic Origins trailer. It's possible that her origin story is being retouched. I don't think Chandra's spark igniting out of fear fits her current personality, anyway.
Perhaps Chandra flips after dealing a certain amount of damage to a player or creature? "Whenever a single source you control deals 4 or more damage". Or perhaps an activated ability that deals damage and flips Chandra? "2RR: ~ deals 4 damage to target creature. When a creature dealt damage this way dies this turn, exile ~, then return her to the battlefield transformed under her owner's control." Or maybe the ability would cost 1R and deal 1 damage, to keep more in line with her PW cards.
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MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Well, according to the new game coming out, Gideon's spark ignites now after he's grief-stricken over the death of his comrades. I doubt they'll all be based on creatures dying, so something tells me it's going to be something akin to your face taking damage.
Jace had apparently planeswalked before without even knowing, so I have a feeling it may involve card draw. It'll either be just straight up if you draw X extra cards, transform and make your opponent discard, which signifies how he wiped his mentor's memory, or it may be if your hand is empty, transform and draw X cards, which would signify how he forgot he had planeswalked before he was told.
Chandra sounds like it would be based on destruction. Perhaps based on dealing a certain amount of damage to your enemy, or destroying a set amount of enemy creatures.
Nissa was an elf elitist until very recently. I feel hers has to be based around elves, therefore. However, if they want to play up the whole land thing she's going into now, they could base it around how many lands you have.
What if the mentors give hints or combo well with the whole triggering process. Gideon's mentor therefore gives creedence to Gideon's trigger being "whenever you take combat damage"
I think it'd be hilarious if Jace flipped on shuffling your library but I suppose that's be OP. Something I've been mulling over is that thematically, if his spark was related to his memory being altered it'd be thematic for him to flip on you discarding a card or exiling cards in the grave (losing memories).
I think it'd be hilarious if Jace flipped on shuffling your library but I suppose that's be OP. Something I've been mulling over is that thematically, if his spark was related to his memory being altered it'd be thematic for him to flip on you discarding a card or exiling cards in the grave (losing memories).
Chandra is probably damage related in some way.
No real ideas for the others.
I dunno, triggering on shuffling will get a lot harder when fetches not in format And being op does fit with people's opinions of blue
I think it'd be hilarious if Jace flipped on shuffling your library but I suppose that's be OP. Something I've been mulling over is that thematically, if his spark was related to his memory being altered it'd be thematic for him to flip on you discarding a card or exiling cards in the grave (losing memories).
Chandra is probably damage related in some way.
No real ideas for the others.
Yeah but with fetches in standard it makes it way too easy to flip him.
I dunno, triggering on shuffling will get a lot harder when fetches not in format And being op does fit with people's opinions of blue
yeah but with fetches in standard it makes it far too easy to flip him.
I think and hope that it wont be too difficult to flip these. Some of the things suggested here are things that either equire a completely specific deck, or a very specific game state.
Now, I'm also sure that the spark-ignition stories will be told on the cards, but the whole thing doesn't have to be a prerequisite for transformation.
Look at Liliana. In her story, she revived her brother as a zombie. If we were to guess her flip-mechanic based only on that, I'm sure we would have thought along the lines of "whenever a creature enters the battlefield from your graveyard" or something. But that would probably be too narrow to make her as playable as they would like. So they made the trigger-part of the ability something that's easy to fulfil, and put the "difficult" part of the story as part of the effect/resolution of the effect (creating the zombie token).
I think we might see something similar for the others. For example, the amnesia surrounding Jace, I don't think that means that it will be a requirement to have milled X cards or to have completely emptied your hand to transform him. But effectsofthatnature could be part of the resolution of his transformation effect.
Jace's flip condition might have already been hinted at with cards like Jace's Phantasm and Mind Sculpt. My guess is Jace has the ability to mill and when there's seven or more cards in a single player's graveyard he flips. "XU, : Target player puts the top X cards of his or her library into his or her graveyard. Then if there are seven or more cards in that player's graveyard, exile ~ then return him to the battlefield transformed."
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
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Gideon - Combat damage to a player / multiple creatures attacking along with him
Jace - Drawing 1 or 2 more cards beyond your first in a turn / milling the opponent (please not this!)
Liliana - Known
Chandra - Burning down a creature / X damage to a player
Nissa - Controlling X number of creatures (maybe keyed to green creatures specifically) / playing multiple lands in a turn
Mogis, God of Slaughter
Daxos of Meletis
Here's what I think:
Gideon - I think both of you are close, but the other way round. I think it'll more likely be When YOU get combat damage (Or possibly any damage for that matter).
Reason: it's not known yet, but I could imagine Gideon's spark igniting when someone got hurt because of a mistake he made.
Jace - atm I'm with - When you discard a card or (unlikely) If you have no cards in hand.
Reason: So far we know that Jace has lost a lot of his memory from before he was a walker. The discard or empty hand would signify that.
Liliana - Yeah, I guess she lost someone dear and wanted them back trying (would fit the zombie token)
Chandra - When Chandra dies.
Reason: We already know how hear spark ignited from Purifying Fire - She was to be beheaded after setting her home village on fire
Nissa - Since we have no information about her origin I have no clue. But they changed her focus from elves to land, so I'm guessing will have sth to do with lands instead of elves
The no cards in hand seems appropriate for Jace.
Chandras is tough. A creature dying is Lilianas trigger so I don't see Chandras being so similar. I could honestly see hers being "T , sacrifice a land you control: Chandra deals 3 damage to each player and 1 damage to each other creature, transform Chandra."
Nissas really is anyones guess though. Didn't read Teeth of Akuom, but to my knowledge it didn't state anything about how her spark ignited.
BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
It could be interesting to put Jace's Archivist-esque ability into the mix. Something easy to accomplish. Then discard your hand and draw X cards, where X is equal to the number of cards you discarded this way. Then flip Jace and put X loyalty counters on him. His planeswalker form could then have 0 or 1 starting loyalty.
I doubt they'd do it, especially with a variable loyalty count. Regardless it could be awesome.
As for Gideon it seems likely that his is based around combat. Perhaps "Whenever a player attacks with three or more creatures, if you are either an attacking or defending player, flip 'Gideon, X' at end of combat". If being attacked it would protect his planeswalker form to first flip after attackers declared, and he can help trigger it himself by attacking but risking to get killed before he flips. All seems like a fine risk-calculation in line with his previous planeswalker forms.
I doubt that Chandra's will be a straight up death-trigger. It would be too cheap IMO. I wonder if it could be based around noncombat damage. Like "Whenever Chandra, X is dealt noncombat damage, prevent that damage and flip her.". It would be relatively easy to achieve through a Bolt or a Pyroclasm but it might not be the best circumstances to use it in. Her planeswalker form could also reflect that in some way.
As for Nissa, we don't really know what ignited her spark, except it was in her youth (elf youth is long however) and that she was insanely curious and explored a lot. That seems to fit the theme of lands, however I think it would be more original to not fall into the "Have you had two or more lands enter the battlefield? Then you may flip" almost cliche type for green. Perhaps it will be connected to the amounts of lands you control or to pour straight up mana into her for the transformation. Flavorwise it wouldn't be a certain homerun to just pour mana into her until she ignites her spark but it exemplifies the use of lands without going into "Did you cast Rampant Growth, Explore, Kodama's Reach or Cultivate?"-territory.
One thing to notice though. Liliana's requirement is relatively easy to fulfill, although it does require some assistance - either a friendly opponent who kills one of your other creeps or some kind of sac outlet, whilst we just received Exploit. So the question is if the others are just as easy to fulfill but to be sure would require some specific deck building?
I agree with Evo_Kaer that the flip triggers will likely be more story-oriented. Liliana's flip trigger is an interpretation of how in her origin story, she gave her brother Jozu a botched healing potion that zombified him instead of healing him. I think the other walkers will follow suit.
Gideon sparked after he stopped a foe that Gideon felt far surpassed him in power. His flip trigger should definitely reflect that. It will likely involve some sort of interaction with a creature with power 4 or greater. Gideon is a hieromancer, so my guess is that he has some sort of damage prevention or creature tapping ability akin to Gideon's Lawkeeper, and when he stops a big creature with it he flips.
Jace's trigger is unknown, but he is a mind mage so it will likely involve milling for better or worse.
Chandra's written story is different than the one presented in the Magic Origins trailer. It's possible that her origin story is being retouched. I don't think Chandra's spark igniting out of fear fits her current personality, anyway.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
Jace had apparently planeswalked before without even knowing, so I have a feeling it may involve card draw. It'll either be just straight up if you draw X extra cards, transform and make your opponent discard, which signifies how he wiped his mentor's memory, or it may be if your hand is empty, transform and draw X cards, which would signify how he forgot he had planeswalked before he was told.
Chandra sounds like it would be based on destruction. Perhaps based on dealing a certain amount of damage to your enemy, or destroying a set amount of enemy creatures.
Nissa was an elf elitist until very recently. I feel hers has to be based around elves, therefore. However, if they want to play up the whole land thing she's going into now, they could base it around how many lands you have.
Chandra is probably damage related in some way.
No real ideas for the others.
CUBE: http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/73964;jsessionid=2DE1F5FF41A24820A137448A2FD5CF8F
I LIKE DRAGONS!
I dunno, triggering on shuffling will get a lot harder when fetches not in format And being op does fit with people's opinions of blue
CUBE: http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/73964;jsessionid=2DE1F5FF41A24820A137448A2FD5CF8F
I LIKE DRAGONS!
Now, I'm also sure that the spark-ignition stories will be told on the cards, but the whole thing doesn't have to be a prerequisite for transformation.
Look at Liliana. In her story, she revived her brother as a zombie. If we were to guess her flip-mechanic based only on that, I'm sure we would have thought along the lines of "whenever a creature enters the battlefield from your graveyard" or something. But that would probably be too narrow to make her as playable as they would like. So they made the trigger-part of the ability something that's easy to fulfil, and put the "difficult" part of the story as part of the effect/resolution of the effect (creating the zombie token).
I think we might see something similar for the others. For example, the amnesia surrounding Jace, I don't think that means that it will be a requirement to have milled X cards or to have completely emptied your hand to transform him. But effects of that nature could be part of the resolution of his transformation effect.
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Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.