Pine barrens and company/etb tapped painlands are the worst dual lands in the history of magic. If they reprinted those....I'd vomit. They are strictly worse than the common duals from KTK and most other dual lands in general. I'd sooner see the waterveil cavern cycle of lands than those and even those I would be pretty sad about.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
Pine barrens and company/etb tapped painlands are the worst dual lands in the history of magic. If they reprinted those....I'd vomit. They are strictly worse than the common duals from KTK and most other dual lands in general. I'd sooner see the waterveil cavern cycle of lands than those and even those I would be pretty sad about.
I kinda want a full waterveil cavern cycle at common for pauper...
If so, then there will be two half-cycles of allied lands in standard (fetches and painlands) that BFZ will need to somehow balance out. More likely imo that Origins has a cycle of enemy lands if it has a half cycle, so that KTK+Origins = 10 dual lands.
^Those painlands are near downgrades to the lifelands in Khans. No thanks.
So, being able to run 8 two-color lands is better than being able to run 12? Good to know.
That said, I am well aware that the Tempest Pain lands would be worse than the lifelands in Khans, but that was beside the point. I just want to see them reprinted.
But what would be really nice, would be the Mirage Fetches. Although I know it is unlikely in the same Standard as the current ones, they are still a lot better than what people give them credit for.
Anyway, since the Mirage fetches, and Tempest pain lands are out of the question, what else is there for cycles. Nearly all cycles of two color lands would be strictly worse than the lifelands, well, with a few exceptions. So, what is there in the tri-land area... We could go with the Homelands cycle (Castle Sengir and friends), they should probably be at common to be able to compete with modern lands. Although I think it unlikely, it would be nice to see what people would do with them these days.
Another option, and one that is more likely when it comes to Tri-lands, is the Alara cycle (Jungle Shrine and friends), but I think that is unlikely as well. But it could end up with a new three-color meta.
No, I think it is most likely we will get the Innistrad cycle (Hinterland Harbor ect.), as they would make a nice compliment to the Onslaught/Tarkir fetches currently in standard.
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
Thinking about manabases in the next standard, right now the only good duals that will be there will be the 5 allied fetch lands.
So either we'll get:
- 5 enemy fetches in BFZ and a complete duals cycle in Magic Origins (perhaps checklands?)
- 5 enemy fetches in Origins and a new duals cycle in BFZ block
- No lands in Origins, 5 enemy fetches in BFZ, and 3 colour decks basically don't exist
We could also get broken cycles:
- 5 enemy lands in origins
- 5 enemy fetches in BFZ
-5 allied lands in BFZ that are different from the Origins cycle, but is "similar for decks" in the same way the M2015 painlands were "similar for decks" to the fetchlands in that both allowed access to coloured mana on turn 1.
If I am to guess, I would bet on 5 enemy EBT manlands in BFZ block in addition to the fetchlands, and some other new or returning cycle of 5 allied dual lands in Origins that are unable to produce coloured mana on turn 1. (Filterlands, checklands, etc.)
I honestly don't think that the current, uneven cycles can really indicate the future land cycles. Wizards wants to get to a place where blocks contain full cycles (one land for each pair) and to a three block, two set standard. One of the striking things about Dragons of Tarkir is the complete lack of dual lands. But this design choice makes sense with Wizards' plan for the future. When Origins is released, I'd expect a full land cycle (new or reprint is up in the air). This won't disturb the current land balance since every color combination will receive some lands to work with. When Battle for Zendikar is released, the enemy pain lands go away. If Origins has only the allied pain lands, it would create an imbalance that doesn't align with Wizards' vision. Additionally, Theros block goes away which creates a 10-land hole that can (and likely will) be filled over the course of the Battle of Zendikar and "Sweat". Then comes "Tears". When "Tears" is released, only Fate Reforged and Khans of Tarkir will rotate. If Origins or Zendikar v2.0 Block contains the enemy fetch lands, there is again an imbalance that doesn't align with Wizards' vision. The reason Dragons of Tarkir doesn't have any dual lands is because a 5-land cycle would create an imbalance and a 10-land cycle is too much for a single set that doesn't have a land theme. If the enemy fetch lands are going to be reprinted, and it's inevitable really, I'd expect it in MM2 or another supplemental set.
When Battle for Zendikar is released, the enemy pain lands go away. If Origins has only the allied pain lands, it would create an imbalance that doesn't align with Wizards' vision.
But if Origins contains 5 enemy dual lands, they could balance with the allied fetchlands in KTK..
When Battle for Zendikar is released, the enemy pain lands go away. If Origins has only the allied pain lands, it would create an imbalance that doesn't align with Wizards' vision.
But if Origins contains 5 enemy dual lands, they could balance with the allied fetchlands in KTK..
So let's say Origins has just enemy dual lands. They will balance with the allied fetch lands in Khans and FRF - that is true. But when Khans and FRF rotate out, leaving Dragons and Origins, we now have five enemy lands without ally lands to balance them. This goes against Wizards' desire to have all two-color decks have equal mana footing. Enemy color decks would have an extra dual land to work with. The same is true for ally-color decks if Origins has just allied lands. Therefore, I don't think Origins will have just five lands one way or the other. Instead, I'd expect to see 10 dual lands, one for each pair.
It is possible that the lands printed in Origins are two broken cycles: a cycle of five allied lands and a cycle of five different enemy lands (possibly enemy fetches). That depends on when Wizards' wants to implement their plans of keeping all two-color decks on equal mana footing and to print 10 land cycles per block.
Personally, I prefer symmetry and lean to favoring a standard where the ally and enemy lands are part of the same cycle. So I lean towards the idea that the ally and enemy lands in Origins will be part of the same cycle rather than two five-land cycles. But that's just a personal preference.
I really hope that WotC sends off the last core set with a huge bang - if that means reprinting enemy and allied filter-lands, then definitely do it. I can't see enemy fetches not being in Battle for Zendikar, so the filter-lands are a pretty safe bet.
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I really hope that WotC sends off the last core set with a huge bang - if that means reprinting enemy and allied filter-lands, then definitely do it. I can't see enemy fetches not being in Battle for Zendikar, so the filter-lands are a pretty safe bet.
I agree and (as you can see in my sig) I predicted the filters would come before the fetches or in Origins, plus they're just due for a reprint. It would really help the modern price of entry as well. Sunken Ruins are getting up there.
"If fetch lands are reprinted I really believe they will be in allied colors (aka Onslaught fetches). If the fetch lands are reprinted you better believe that we'll all be fetching up basics. This would lead me to believe that the set after THS may have a reprint as the temples can't be fetched but it's pure speculation." - posted 03/22/2014 proved correct during Khans spoiler season.
"The set releases for fall 2015 (Blood, Sweat and Tears) and fall 2016 (Lock, Stock and Barrel). One or both of those 2 blocks (I'm betting) are going to contain either Fetch reprints or (more likely) Filter reprints. Filter lands still need a reprint. They are getting pretty high up there and it's been longer than ZEN so it makes a little more sense that Filter lands would see print earlier that fetches." - posted 03/22/2014 proved incorrect about filters coming earlier than fetches, still pending on filters in Origins block.
I might get laughed about this, but since this set is focused on planeswalkers what if we had something like this:
Ravnica Undercity
Land - Island Swamp
As Ravnica Undercity enters the battlefield you may reveal a blue or black planeswalker from your hand, if you don't reveal a planeswalker this way or control a blue or black planeswalker, then Ravnica Undercity enters the battlefield tapped.
I might get laughed about this, but since this set is focused on planeswalkers what if we had something like this:
Ravnica Undercity
Land - Island Swamp
As Ravnica Undercity enters the battlefield you may reveal a blue or black planeswalker from your hand, if you don't reveal a planeswalker this way or control a blue or black planeswalker, then Ravnica Undercity enters the battlefield tapped.
while i like the desing, the problem is that the PW in M16 transform from creatures into PW...like delver flip.
I might get laughed about this, but since this set is focused on planeswalkers what if we had something like this:
Ravnica Undercity
Land - Island Swamp
As Ravnica Undercity enters the battlefield you may reveal a blue or black planeswalker from your hand, if you don't reveal a planeswalker this way or control a blue or black planeswalker, then Ravnica Undercity enters the battlefield tapped.
while i like the desing, the problem is that the PW in M16 transform from creatures into PW...like delver flip.
That is true maybe it could just be like this:
Ravnica Undercity
Land - Island Swamp
Ravnica Undercity enters the battlefield tapped unless you control a blue or black planeswalker.
Ally painlands are the most likely simply because several have location specific names so a core set that its set on 10 different planes makes sense for them to be there.
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SonofaBith - Wizards was so excited about making the packaging for Modern Masters 2 recyclable, they decided to make most of the rares and all but 1 of the UC's recycle-bin ready too. Convenient!
That seems kinda cruddy...how about blue or black permanent?
That'd be a joke of a downside and WAY too good for modern. No thanks. I liked te planeswalker idea better since planeswalkers have struggled making the jump to eternal formats. This might be just the kind of incentive they need.
That seems kinda cruddy...how about blue or black permanent?
That'd be a joke of a downside and WAY too good for modern. No thanks. I liked te planeswalker idea better since planeswalkers have struggled making the jump to eternal formats. This might be just the kind of incentive they need.
I disagree, the cheapest blue or black planeswalkers are, what, Ashiok and Jace Beleren at three mana each? So this card won't even come into play untapped until turn four? That's pretty horrible, I'd much rather play something like Underground River or any number of untapped lands than that.
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"To make peace with the forest, make peace with me." -Multani, to Urza
That seems kinda cruddy...how about blue or black permanent?
That'd be a joke of a downside and WAY too good for modern. No thanks. I liked te planeswalker idea better since planeswalkers have struggled making the jump to eternal formats. This might be just the kind of incentive they need.
"unless you control a permanent..." is not too good, for starter that dont allow t1 discard, or t2 something (if you dont play a permanent in t1).
in fact, i believe this is worst than checklands
now if you were talking about "unless you control/show your hand for...", yeah, that is way too good.
That seems kinda cruddy...how about blue or black permanent?
That'd be a joke of a downside and WAY too good for modern. No thanks. I liked te planeswalker idea better since planeswalkers have struggled making the jump to eternal formats. This might be just the kind of incentive they need.
"unless you control a permanent..." is not too good, for starter that dont allow t1 discard, or t2 something (if you dont play a permanent in t1).
in fact, i believe this is worst than checklands
now if you were talking about "unless you control/show your hand for...", yeah, that is way too good.
The original planeswalker one was reveal, so I assumed he meant reveal for this too. Yea the controlling version would be perfectly fair, I actually think that would be a pretty good balance.
They are certainly doing the Black Lotus-Fetchlands this time, when you sac them you add 3 too. That would drop the ZEN fetchs price for sure.
On a serious note, maybe they do one of the Future Sight land cycle:
- Horizon Canopy(maybe too powerful)
- Grove of the Burnwillows (maybe too untaped )
- River of Tears (this seems balanced)
- Nimbus Maze (balanced too, and interacts with fetchlands)
not having a dual cycle in the last core set feels a little dull to me...
I believe WoTC's new policy is to make sure that every color can enjoy the exciting gameplay mechanic of making undercosted dudes and then turning them sideways. Clearly the future of magic.
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They are certainly doing the Black Lotus-Fetchlands this time, when you sac them you add 3 too. That would drop the ZEN fetchs price for sure.
On a serious note, maybe they do one of the Future Sight land cycle:
- Horizon Canopy(maybe too powerful)
- Grove of the Burnwillows (maybe too untaped )
- River of Tears (this seems balanced)
- Nimbus Maze (balanced too, and interacts with fetchlands)
not having a dual cycle in the last core set feels a little dull to me...
I am expecting them to do enemy versions of the Scars fastlands. This is their last opportunity to do them outside of New Phyrexia and Standard needs dual lands that support aggressive strategies on turns 1 and 2.
I believe WoTC's new policy is to make sure that every color can enjoy the exciting gameplay mechanic of making undercosted dudes and then turning them sideways. Clearly the future of magic.
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Podríamos hacer un topic donde marquemos los peores horrores de ortografía.
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I kinda want a full waterveil cavern cycle at common for pauper...
If so, then there will be two half-cycles of allied lands in standard (fetches and painlands) that BFZ will need to somehow balance out. More likely imo that Origins has a cycle of enemy lands if it has a half cycle, so that KTK+Origins = 10 dual lands.
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
So, being able to run 8 two-color lands is better than being able to run 12? Good to know.
That said, I am well aware that the Tempest Pain lands would be worse than the lifelands in Khans, but that was beside the point. I just want to see them reprinted.
But what would be really nice, would be the Mirage Fetches. Although I know it is unlikely in the same Standard as the current ones, they are still a lot better than what people give them credit for.
Anyway, since the Mirage fetches, and Tempest pain lands are out of the question, what else is there for cycles. Nearly all cycles of two color lands would be strictly worse than the lifelands, well, with a few exceptions. So, what is there in the tri-land area... We could go with the Homelands cycle (Castle Sengir and friends), they should probably be at common to be able to compete with modern lands. Although I think it unlikely, it would be nice to see what people would do with them these days.
Another option, and one that is more likely when it comes to Tri-lands, is the Alara cycle (Jungle Shrine and friends), but I think that is unlikely as well. But it could end up with a new three-color meta.
No, I think it is most likely we will get the Innistrad cycle (Hinterland Harbor ect.), as they would make a nice compliment to the Onslaught/Tarkir fetches currently in standard.
---
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Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
We could also get broken cycles:
- 5 enemy lands in origins
- 5 enemy fetches in BFZ
-5 allied lands in BFZ that are different from the Origins cycle, but is "similar for decks" in the same way the M2015 painlands were "similar for decks" to the fetchlands in that both allowed access to coloured mana on turn 1.
If I am to guess, I would bet on 5 enemy EBT manlands in BFZ block in addition to the fetchlands, and some other new or returning cycle of 5 allied dual lands in Origins that are unable to produce coloured mana on turn 1. (Filterlands, checklands, etc.)
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
But if Origins contains 5 enemy dual lands, they could balance with the allied fetchlands in KTK..
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
So let's say Origins has just enemy dual lands. They will balance with the allied fetch lands in Khans and FRF - that is true. But when Khans and FRF rotate out, leaving Dragons and Origins, we now have five enemy lands without ally lands to balance them. This goes against Wizards' desire to have all two-color decks have equal mana footing. Enemy color decks would have an extra dual land to work with. The same is true for ally-color decks if Origins has just allied lands. Therefore, I don't think Origins will have just five lands one way or the other. Instead, I'd expect to see 10 dual lands, one for each pair.
It is possible that the lands printed in Origins are two broken cycles: a cycle of five allied lands and a cycle of five different enemy lands (possibly enemy fetches). That depends on when Wizards' wants to implement their plans of keeping all two-color decks on equal mana footing and to print 10 land cycles per block.
Personally, I prefer symmetry and lean to favoring a standard where the ally and enemy lands are part of the same cycle. So I lean towards the idea that the ally and enemy lands in Origins will be part of the same cycle rather than two five-land cycles. But that's just a personal preference.
I agree and (as you can see in my sig) I predicted the filters would come before the fetches or in Origins, plus they're just due for a reprint. It would really help the modern price of entry as well. Sunken Ruins are getting up there.
"The set releases for fall 2015 (Blood, Sweat and Tears) and fall 2016 (Lock, Stock and Barrel). One or both of those 2 blocks (I'm betting) are going to contain either Fetch reprints or (more likely) Filter reprints. Filter lands still need a reprint. They are getting pretty high up there and it's been longer than ZEN so it makes a little more sense that Filter lands would see print earlier that fetches." - posted 03/22/2014 proved incorrect about filters coming earlier than fetches, still pending on filters in Origins block.
Ravnica Undercity
Land - Island Swamp
As Ravnica Undercity enters the battlefield you may reveal a blue or black planeswalker from your hand, if you don't reveal a planeswalker this way or control a blue or black planeswalker, then Ravnica Undercity enters the battlefield tapped.
while i like the desing, the problem is that the PW in M16 transform from creatures into PW...like delver flip.
That is true maybe it could just be like this:
Ravnica Undercity
Land - Island Swamp
Ravnica Undercity enters the battlefield tapped unless you control a blue or black planeswalker.
GW Rhys the Redeemed EDH
RUGAnimar, Soul of Elements EDH
WBRAlesha, Who Smiles at Death EDH
That'd be a joke of a downside and WAY too good for modern. No thanks. I liked te planeswalker idea better since planeswalkers have struggled making the jump to eternal formats. This might be just the kind of incentive they need.
I disagree, the cheapest blue or black planeswalkers are, what, Ashiok and Jace Beleren at three mana each? So this card won't even come into play untapped until turn four? That's pretty horrible, I'd much rather play something like Underground River or any number of untapped lands than that.
"unless you control a permanent..." is not too good, for starter that dont allow t1 discard, or t2 something (if you dont play a permanent in t1).
in fact, i believe this is worst than checklands
now if you were talking about "unless you control/show your hand for...", yeah, that is way too good.
The original planeswalker one was reveal, so I assumed he meant reveal for this too. Yea the controlling version would be perfectly fair, I actually think that would be a pretty good balance.
On a serious note, maybe they do one of the Future Sight land cycle:
- Horizon Canopy(maybe too powerful)
- Grove of the Burnwillows (maybe too untaped )
- River of Tears (this seems balanced)
- Nimbus Maze (balanced too, and interacts with fetchlands)
not having a dual cycle in the last core set feels a little dull to me...
I am expecting them to do enemy versions of the Scars fastlands. This is their last opportunity to do them outside of New Phyrexia and Standard needs dual lands that support aggressive strategies on turns 1 and 2.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.