Actually, there is nothing in the rules against adding a new basic land type, nor does the domain ability prevent it. They still have to be very, very, careful about printing a new type of basic land because it would affect domain (but if colorless, it would not affect Sunburst). But since domain isn't exactly playable in either modern nor legacy because both formats are to fast for it, and it isn't currently legal in standard (and last time it was, it wasn't really played outside of limited either), there is nothing technically preventing such a land from existing.
Also, it would need a subtype, because without it, it would do absolutely nothing other than allow you to have an infinite number of them in your deck. You wouldn't even be able to tap it for mana as the basic supertype and the land type in themselves don't grant that ability.
It is no longer a question of whether or not we will get Barry's Land, for they have been looking for a way to make it work since Planar Chaos, and it almost happened in both Alara (for Domain) and or last visit to Zendikar (because land focus). It is now a question of when. And it will happen eventually, the panel video that creatorpwned linked to in his earlier post pretty much confirms that much. People want it, WotC know they want it, and the Game designers want to make it happen.
Couldn't Wizards amend the rules to allow the "Basic Land" produce colorless with Mountain, Island, Plains, Swamp, and Forest change it to colored mana. That would still be better than adding a Basic Land subtype, because that subtype would affect Domain. Wizards already said they were not going to mess up existing cards in older formats.
It wouldn't mess it up though. It would make Domain a slight bit stronger. It's nowhere near a staple in any formats though. Domain zoo in modern plays one domain card, and I don't see them stretching an already strained manabase to make that burn spell a slight bit stronger.
It wouldn't mess it up though. It would make Domain a slight bit stronger. It's nowhere near a staple in any formats though. Domain zoo in modern plays one domain card, and I don't see them stretching an already strained manabase to make that burn spell a slight bit stronger.
That's the thing. I read that Wizards wasn't not going to make Domain stronger with this new colorless Basic Land card, whatever it is. Whatever way they found doesn't break old cards. Even if Domain isn't a popular keyword in any format, Domain still plays the same. I expect some rules change when this land appears to support that if "Basic Land" with no subtype doesn't work with existing rules.
Actually, there is nothing in the rules against adding a new basic land type, nor does the domain ability prevent it. They still have to be very, very, careful about printing a new type of basic land because it would affect domain (but if colorless, it would not affect Sunburst). But since domain isn't exactly playable in either modern nor legacy because both formats are to fast for it, and it isn't currently legal in standard (and last time it was, it wasn't really played outside of limited either), there is nothing technically preventing such a land from existing.
Also, it would need a subtype, because without it, it would do absolutely nothing other than allow you to have an infinite number of them in your deck. You wouldn't even be able to tap it for mana as the basic supertype and the land type in themselves don't grant that ability.
It is no longer a question of whether or not we will get Barry's Land, for they have been looking for a way to make it work since Planar Chaos, and it almost happened in both Alara (for Domain) and or last visit to Zendikar (because land focus). It is now a question of when. And it will happen eventually, the panel video that creatorpwned linked to in his earlier post pretty much confirms that much. People want it, WotC know they want it, and the Game designers want to make it happen.
Couldn't Wizards amend the rules to allow the "Basic Land" produce colorless mana with Mountain, Island, Plains, Swamp, and Forest changing that to colored mana. That would still be better than adding a Basic Land subtype, because that subtype would affect Domain. Wizards already said they were not going to mess up existing cards in older formats.
They could, but they are not going to as it would be an effective rules change, and WotC hates doing that. It would change how already existing cards work, and that would be really, really bad.
They spent the better part of 10 years trying to undo the mess a number of effective rules changes that were made with the release 6th edition/Classic. Note, it is much easier to add (or change) a card (sub)type than it is to change how card types work. These days such changes are only done when it is to make cards function as intended when designed (such as with certain "sorceries" from the Portal sets now are instants, as they are written they didn't work under the actual game rules, now they do.)
If, and when they do colorless basic lands (and they will, it's inevitable), they *will* have a subtype that allows them to tap for colorless, because without it, they simply wouldn't work.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
I would suggest Wasteland as the colorless land type, but there's an obvious reason why that won't fly. Desert could also be fitting, but same problem. Perhaps Ruin would work?
Ruin
Basic Land - Ruin
: Add to your mana pool.
I think it would be Basic Land - Hedron to fit flavor wise, especially now that we know that hedrons weren't limited to zendikar. (Art on the land in tarkir block)
Somewhere, there is a thread on this colorless basic land thing. You must remember that because of existing cards with abilities and effects like Domain, there CAN NOT* be a new basic land subtype, so "Hedron" and "Ruins" are both out, as flavorful as either would be. It would have to be templated like this:
Ruins of Zendikar
Basic Land
T: Add 1 to your mana pool.
There could be additional rules text on it, but that would make it feel very un-basic. As is, this is a simple, elegant design for a colorless basic land the doesn't create a rules headache that adding a subtype would create. If it has the "Basic" supertype, it can't have any subtype, PERIOD. Otherwise, it affects cards like Coalition Victory.
*Okay, they technically could print new basic land subtype, but have stated that they wouldn't want to mess with the way some existing cards play. Also, they stated they "solved" the issue with printing a colorless basic land, and any of the proposed basic lands with a new subtype don't seem to have any solved issue or issue to solve if concern over altering the effects of some cards doesn't exist. I believe the issue with printing a colorless producing basic land was just that... the issue with the subtype. The fix is to simply not have a subtype. The card I proposed covers all the angles. It will not affect Domain cards (be a use it doesn't have a basic land subtype), it can be searched for by things like Wayfarer's Bauble (because it has the Basic supertype) and you can run any number in a deck like Karn EDH (because it has the Basic supertype).
Actually, there is nothing in the rules against adding a new basic land type, nor does the domain ability prevent it. They still have to be very, very, careful about printing a new type of basic land because it would affect domain (but if colorless, it would not affect Sunburst). But since domain isn't exactly playable in either modern nor legacy because both formats are to fast for it, and it isn't currently legal in standard (and last time it was, it wasn't really played outside of limited either), there is nothing technically preventing such a land from existing.
Also, it would need a subtype, because without it, it would do absolutely nothing other than allow you to have an infinite number of them in your deck. You wouldn't even be able to tap it for mana as the basic supertype and the land type in themselves don't grant that ability.
It is no longer a question of whether or not we will get Barry's Land, for they have been looking for a way to make it work since Planar Chaos, and it almost happened in both Alara (for Domain) and or last visit to Zendikar (because land focus). It is now a question of when. And it will happen eventually, the panel video that creatorpwned linked to in his earlier post pretty much confirms that much. People want it, WotC know they want it, and the Game designers want to make it happen.
Why would this land need to have a subtype to produce mana? Wouldn't the clause "T: Add 1 to your mana pool" be sufficant? Also, IIRC, the subtypes (Plains, Island, Swamp, Mountain and Forest) are what allows all the current basic lands to tap for their respective colors. I really think all these theories about rules changes are overthinking it. The land I suggested works fine within the rules.
Why would this land need to have a subtype to produce mana? Wouldn't the clause "T: Add 1 to your mana pool" be sufficant? Also, IIRC, the subtypes (Plains, Island, Swamp, Mountain and Forest) are what allows all the current basic lands to tap for their respective colors. I really think all these theories about rules changes are overthinking it. The land I suggested works fine within the rules.
Because not having it would be changing one of the fundamental rules of the game. How basic lands work.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
Couldn't they make a colorless nonbasic land with the ability 'You may have any number of copies of this card in your deck' (like with Relentless Rats)?
That would basically accomplish the same thing as basic lands without messing with Domain or the rules of the game.
Also, doesn't Relentless Rat's ability seem like the thing they should keyword? Sorry to digress, it just seems like it would be a good thing to keyword.
Why would this land need to have a subtype to produce mana? Wouldn't the clause "T: Add 1 to your mana pool" be sufficant? Also, IIRC, the subtypes (Plains, Island, Swamp, Mountain and Forest) are what allows all the current basic lands to tap for their respective colors. I really think all these theories about rules changes are overthinking it. The land I suggested works fine within the rules.
Because not having it would be changing one of the fundamental rules of the game. How basic lands work.
Can you please quote or give a source, because you just saying that means nothing to me. From the MTGS Wiki:
"The basic land (sub)types are Plains, Island, Swamp, Mountain and Forest. Each basic land subtype implicitly grants the ability to tap for one mana of its corresponding color:
Plains - T: Add to your mana pool.
Island - T: Add to your mana pool.
Swamp - T: Add to your mana pool.
Mountain - T: Add to your mana pool.
Forest - T: Add to your mana pool.
Any land with a basic land (sub)type has the appropriate ability. A land with multiple basic land (sub)types has each corresponding ability and can tap for any of the appropriate colors. However, a land with a basic land (sub)type is only a basic land if it has the Basic supertype."
So what grants a basic land the ability to tap for mana is being at least one of the basic land subtypes. This does not prevent a basic land with no subtype from producing mana if it has a line of rules text that says "T: Add 1 to your mana pool." So what's the rule that prevents this?
Why would this land need to have a subtype to produce mana? Wouldn't the clause "T: Add 1 to your mana pool" be sufficant? Also, IIRC, the subtypes (Plains, Island, Swamp, Mountain and Forest) are what allows all the current basic lands to tap for their respective colors. I really think all these theories about rules changes are overthinking it. The land I suggested works fine within the rules.
Because not having it would be changing one of the fundamental rules of the game. How basic lands work.
Can you please quote or give a source, because you just saying that means nothing to me. From the MTGS Wiki:
"The basic land (sub)types are Plains, Island, Swamp, Mountain and Forest. Each basic land subtype implicitly grants the ability to tap for one mana of its corresponding color:
Plains - T: Add to your mana pool.
Island - T: Add to your mana pool.
Swamp - T: Add to your mana pool.
Mountain - T: Add to your mana pool.
Forest - T: Add to your mana pool.
Any land with a basic land (sub)type has the appropriate ability. A land with multiple basic land (sub)types has each corresponding ability and can tap for any of the appropriate colors. However, a land with a basic land (sub)type is only a basic land if it has the Basic supertype."
So what grants a basic land the ability to tap for mana is being at least one of the basic land subtypes. This does not prevent a basic land with no subtype from producing mana if it has a line of rules text that says "T: Add 1 to your mana pool." So what's the rule that prevents this?
The whole point of basic lands is that the type they have infers them ability for them to tap in the corresponding color. This in itself makes basic lands themselves to be the cards with the shortest line of rules text short of vanilla creatures, being only one character long.
Changing the rules so that the basic supertype infers the ability for a card to tap for one colorless mana would be changing the base rules of the game. Something WotC does not want to do. The only way for them to create a colorless land, without changing the base rules of the game, is to create a new basic land type that does just that.
Additionally, changing the base rules to have the basic type infer the ability to tap for colorless in itself would completely and utterly invalidate the entire purpose of "Barry's Land" in the first place, which was to add a sixth land type for Domain without adding a new color to the game.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
Why would this land need to have a subtype to produce mana? Wouldn't the clause "T: Add 1 to your mana pool" be sufficant? Also, IIRC, the subtypes (Plains, Island, Swamp, Mountain and Forest) are what allows all the current basic lands to tap for their respective colors. I really think all these theories about rules changes are overthinking it. The land I suggested works fine within the rules.
Because not having it would be changing one of the fundamental rules of the game. How basic lands work.
Can you please quote or give a source, because you just saying that means nothing to me. From the MTGS Wiki:
"The basic land (sub)types are Plains, Island, Swamp, Mountain and Forest. Each basic land subtype implicitly grants the ability to tap for one mana of its corresponding color:
Plains - T: Add to your mana pool.
Island - T: Add to your mana pool.
Swamp - T: Add to your mana pool.
Mountain - T: Add to your mana pool.
Forest - T: Add to your mana pool.
Any land with a basic land (sub)type has the appropriate ability. A land with multiple basic land (sub)types has each corresponding ability and can tap for any of the appropriate colors. However, a land with a basic land (sub)type is only a basic land if it has the Basic supertype."
So what grants a basic land the ability to tap for mana is being at least one of the basic land subtypes. This does not prevent a basic land with no subtype from producing mana if it has a line of rules text that says "T: Add 1 to your mana pool." So what's the rule that prevents this?
The whole point of basic lands is that the type they have infers them ability for them to tap in the corresponding color. This in itself makes basic lands themselves to be the cards with the shortest line of rules text short of vanilla creatures, being only one character long.
Changing the rules so that the basic supertype infers the ability for a card to tap for one colorless mana would be changing the base rules of the game. Something WotC does not want to do. The only way for them to create a colorless land, without changing the base rules of the game, is to create a new basic land type that does just that.
Additionally, changing the base rules to have the basic type infer the ability to tap for colorless in itself would completely and utterly invalidate the entire purpose of "Barry's Land" in the first place, which was to add a sixth land type for Domain without adding a new color to the game.
I think you're misreading the proposal. This isn't the proposal "Basic supertype now automatically grants 'T: add 1'". This is the proposal "Print a Basic Land with no subtype, and the rules text 'T: add 1'".
"Basic lands have the shortest rules text" is not a rule. It's something that happens to be true today, but doesn't have to be true.
Why would this land need to have a subtype to produce mana? Wouldn't the clause "T: Add 1 to your mana pool" be sufficant? Also, IIRC, the subtypes (Plains, Island, Swamp, Mountain and Forest) are what allows all the current basic lands to tap for their respective colors. I really think all these theories about rules changes are overthinking it. The land I suggested works fine within the rules.
Because not having it would be changing one of the fundamental rules of the game. How basic lands work.
Can you please quote or give a source, because you just saying that means nothing to me. From the MTGS Wiki:
"The basic land (sub)types are Plains, Island, Swamp, Mountain and Forest. Each basic land subtype implicitly grants the ability to tap for one mana of its corresponding color:
Plains - T: Add to your mana pool.
Island - T: Add to your mana pool.
Swamp - T: Add to your mana pool.
Mountain - T: Add to your mana pool.
Forest - T: Add to your mana pool.
Any land with a basic land (sub)type has the appropriate ability. A land with multiple basic land (sub)types has each corresponding ability and can tap for any of the appropriate colors. However, a land with a basic land (sub)type is only a basic land if it has the Basic supertype."
So what grants a basic land the ability to tap for mana is being at least one of the basic land subtypes. This does not prevent a basic land with no subtype from producing mana if it has a line of rules text that says "T: Add 1 to your mana pool." So what's the rule that prevents this?
The whole point of basic lands is that the type they have infers them ability for them to tap in the corresponding color. This in itself makes basic lands themselves to be the cards with the shortest line of rules text short of vanilla creatures, being only one character long.
Changing the rules so that the basic supertype infers the ability for a card to tap for one colorless mana would be changing the base rules of the game. Something WotC does not want to do. The only way for them to create a colorless land, without changing the base rules of the game, is to create a new basic land type that does just that.
Additionally, changing the base rules to have the basic type infer the ability to tap for colorless in itself would completely and utterly invalidate the entire purpose of "Barry's Land" in the first place, which was to add a sixth land type for Domain without adding a new color to the game.
I think you're misreading the proposal. This isn't the proposal "Basic supertype now automatically grants 'T: add 1'". This is the proposal "Print a Basic Land with no subtype, and the rules text 'T: add 1'".
"Basic lands have the shortest rules text" is not a rule. It's something that happens to be true today, but doesn't have to be true.
Thank you thank you thank you!!! I was starting to feel like I was taking crazy pills, because I thought my proposal was simple and clear cut, but no one seemed to get it. Thank you for making me feel like I wasn't the only person here to grasp the concept.
Why would this land need to have a subtype to produce mana? Wouldn't the clause "T: Add 1 to your mana pool" be sufficant? Also, IIRC, the subtypes (Plains, Island, Swamp, Mountain and Forest) are what allows all the current basic lands to tap for their respective colors. I really think all these theories about rules changes are overthinking it. The land I suggested works fine within the rules.
Because not having it would be changing one of the fundamental rules of the game. How basic lands work.
Can you please quote or give a source, because you just saying that means nothing to me. From the MTGS Wiki:
"The basic land (sub)types are Plains, Island, Swamp, Mountain and Forest. Each basic land subtype implicitly grants the ability to tap for one mana of its corresponding color:
Plains - T: Add to your mana pool.
Island - T: Add to your mana pool.
Swamp - T: Add to your mana pool.
Mountain - T: Add to your mana pool.
Forest - T: Add to your mana pool.
Any land with a basic land (sub)type has the appropriate ability. A land with multiple basic land (sub)types has each corresponding ability and can tap for any of the appropriate colors. However, a land with a basic land (sub)type is only a basic land if it has the Basic supertype."
So what grants a basic land the ability to tap for mana is being at least one of the basic land subtypes. This does not prevent a basic land with no subtype from producing mana if it has a line of rules text that says "T: Add 1 to your mana pool." So what's the rule that prevents this?
The whole point of basic lands is that the type they have infers them ability for them to tap in the corresponding color. This in itself makes basic lands themselves to be the cards with the shortest line of rules text short of vanilla creatures, being only one character long.
Changing the rules so that the basic supertype infers the ability for a card to tap for one colorless mana would be changing the base rules of the game. Something WotC does not want to do. The only way for them to create a colorless land, without changing the base rules of the game, is to create a new basic land type that does just that.
Additionally, changing the base rules to have the basic type infer the ability to tap for colorless in itself would completely and utterly invalidate the entire purpose of "Barry's Land" in the first place, which was to add a sixth land type for Domain without adding a new color to the game.
I think you're misreading the proposal. This isn't the proposal "Basic supertype now automatically grants 'T: add 1'". This is the proposal "Print a Basic Land with no subtype, and the rules text 'T: add 1'".
"Basic lands have the shortest rules text" is not a rule. It's something that happens to be true today, but doesn't have to be true.
I see what you are getting at, but that wouldn't really be a basic land as under the current rules. Remember, the whole point of basic lands is that they are supposed to be as simple as possible. Since neither the basic supertype, nor the land type itself grants the card to tap for mana, it is necessary for a subtype to exist for the sake of the rules without them being rewritten.
But that is only one reason for why such a subtype should (and needs to) exist. Another, and not insubstantial reason for such a subtype to exist, is an issue of design space. Creating a new basic land subtype would increase the available design space for cards that care about specific land types by nearly 20%. That is a significant amount of potential design space it opens up.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
From my understanding of the rules, a basic land with rules text "T: Add 1 to your mana pool" could work. It may break conventions that have been true until now. But if there's a game which regularly breaks its own conventions, it's Magic. Some of the conventions that have been unthinkable of ever being broken for most players were broken by hybrid symbols, split cards, flip cards and DFC. The assertion that basic lands are supposed to be as simple as possible is true, but not a limitation for the expert sets, which have a lot more complex concepts at common than this land would be.
But I think what could also be made is a basic land with a non-basic land subtype, and the rules text. There are non-basic lands with basic land types, I think there could be vice versa. It would have reminder text that states that even though it's a basic land, its subtype is a non-basic land type. Even a new variant of domain could be made that cares for different subtypes of basic lands, instead of basic land types, so it could count up to six.
Also I propose a new mana symbol which can only be payed by colorless mana, similar to the snow mana symbol, but it would be a lot less parasitic than snow mana.
Except, to much complexity at common would be a violation of the NWO, something Maro and creative takes very seriously.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
From my understanding of the rules, a basic land with rules text "T: Add 1 to your mana pool" could work. It may break conventions that have been true until now. But if there's a game which regularly breaks its own conventions, it's Magic. Some of the conventions that have been unthinkable of ever being broken for most players were broken by hybrid symbols, split cards, flip cards and DFC. The assertion that basic lands are supposed to be as simple as possible is true, but not a limitation for the expert sets, which have a lot more complex concepts at common than this land would be.
But I think what could also be made is a basic land with a non-basic land subtype, and the rules text. There are non-basic lands with basic land types, I think there could be vice versa. It would have reminder text that states that even though it's a basic land, its subtype is a non-basic land type. Even a new variant of domain could be made that cares for different subtypes of basic lands, instead of basic land types, so it could count up to six.
Also I propose a new mana symbol which can only be payed by colorless mana, similar to the snow mana symbol, but it would be a lot less parasitic than snow mana.
Except, to much complexity at common would be a violation of the NWO, something Maro and creative takes very seriously.
In response to the bolded parts:
1) "Subtypes of basic lands" and "basic land types" ARE THE EXACT SAME THING.
2) The only one making things complex is you.
How do you think these new colourless basics would be distributed so everyone will be able to get enough to play with? Every pack has a basic land, but you'd only have a 1 in 6 chance to get Barry's land. This would make it challenging to collect enough of them to play with right away. It'd be like when magic first started and not everyone had enough basics to play with.
I want to get new full art basics in BFZ, but I'm worried they might replace them with Barry's Land in every pack instead. Maybe the land packs in Fatpacks could be all Barry's Land to increase supply?
You sir are a gentleman and a scholar. I can't wait till I can play my bicycle land out, thus making me heckbent, while I have Nessie on the field. You know, so I can attack with my Pervert.
it'd be brilliant if barrys land were to explode out of the gates for everyone to get a hold of, though i'm assuming that the logistical headaches that comes with distribution and all that probably means that wizards is just gonna knock the idea on the head. as far as i can tell, wizards bends their own rules only when there is an absolute need to, and only when the technology is there to make it work as near perfect as they can.
and can you imagine when its released, the most impressive thing about the set is... (nearly) strictly worse basic lands? new players would be completely baffled by that.
I can imagine that they can print new basic type land that can produce colorless mana and then ban it for non Standard, non commander format.
They can print it even in Origin and/or Battle for Zendikar.
Maybe not to ban for another format, but they should avoid print SHOCK land with Barry's subtype or any fetch land for Barry's subtype land.
Domain problem just depends on number of Barry's lands in deck and percentage to get them.
There should be not problem for rewrite some rule sentence how basic land work. EASY. They can name color for each corresponding basic land.
I think making a basic land that taps for colorless would be a bad idea. For one, it would cause rules headaches and two, there are a lot more things that search out basic lands as opposed to just any land. I think any incentive to use them over regular basic lands will either be too little and end up as just a joke or be too much and end up being broken.
As far as making it easier to make colorless commander decks, yes it would make it easier but also takes some of the sport out of it. What I mean by that is making a colorless commander deck is a challenge BECAUSE you can't use basic lands. It means you have to do more research into the lands you use and the artifacts you choose to go in your deck. Not to mention there are only 3 colorless legends in all of magic that are even allowed in commander (the fourth is emrakul and he is banned).
What about a return of monocolor hybrid mana? Could fit with the idea of a colorless basic land, Eldrazi and Ugin spirit dragon colorless cards?
With all the Barry's land discussion, this comment got overshadowed, but I believe it warrants discussion.
Mono colored hybrid only saw a little use. We had Reaper King and the Flame Javelin cycle, but there's a lot more space for design.
Mono hybrid would fit well with Barry's land (however they decide to do it), as well as some of the suggested "colorless matters" keywords.
Mono hybrid also give Eldrazi more substance, allowing players to cast them for cheaper if they run the colors that those Eldrazi are.
In addition, it fits into the flavor well. An Eldrazi that has been eating all the mana from mountainous regions could be cast with red mana.
And if they still wanted the Eldrazi to be colorless while having the colored mana cost, they can pull a Ghostfire and just have "This is colorless" reminder text.
My favorite part of this idea is that it actually fits well with the Tarkir block. Let's say you're running a Temur deck. While a RR cost card might be hard to play on turn 2, R/2 R/2 could be cast on turn 2, 3, or 4. Having trouble hitting that second or first red mana? No problem. Cards with mono hybrid costs making getting color-screwed a lot more manageable. Take that from a guys who ran Flame Javelin in a mono lack rogues deck just to deal with chameleon Collosus.
As far as distribution for Barry's land, I can see them including 10 (or whatever) in each prerelease pack, some amount in every precon, and one occasionally replacing a common slot in booster packs (while still having a full-art land in each booster pack as well). That should allow enough of them to be in circulation to where it won't be a problem.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
About Mindslaver rulings:
Quote from ebcubs03 »
so if i am that player do i get to sleep with his girlfriend ?
I was expecting a colorless mana matters / colorless spells matter theme in Fate Reforged to make use of the pain lands while they were in Standard. (...And the two other colorless lands in M15.)
I suppoooose that BFZ will be a more relevant place to put such a theme.
Not to mention there are only 3 colorless legends in all of magic that are even allowed in commander (the fourth is emrakul and he is banned).
To be fair, while not 100% guaranteed, it seems like a relatively safe assumption there will be new versions of the Eldrazi titans, or at least one of them, in Battle for Zendikar's block. So there is probably at least 1 new colorless Commander on the horizon.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
They didn't care that he was the savior of Fort Keff, the great hunter of Ondu, the champion of Kabira. To them, he was just another piece of flesh, a thing with life to be drained away.
A 6th "basic land" type will never be a thing. No Barry's land aka "Cave" - No to a "ruins" basic land. Sure the article is 6 years old. But this is one point I don't see MaRo going back on. Take out basic land on that Ruins land and you might just have something.
It wouldn't mess it up though. It would make Domain a slight bit stronger. It's nowhere near a staple in any formats though. Domain zoo in modern plays one domain card, and I don't see them stretching an already strained manabase to make that burn spell a slight bit stronger.
That's the thing. I read that Wizards wasn't not going to make Domain stronger with this new colorless Basic Land card, whatever it is. Whatever way they found doesn't break old cards. Even if Domain isn't a popular keyword in any format, Domain still plays the same. I expect some rules change when this land appears to support that if "Basic Land" with no subtype doesn't work with existing rules.
They could, but they are not going to as it would be an effective rules change, and WotC hates doing that. It would change how already existing cards work, and that would be really, really bad.
They spent the better part of 10 years trying to undo the mess a number of effective rules changes that were made with the release 6th edition/Classic. Note, it is much easier to add (or change) a card (sub)type than it is to change how card types work. These days such changes are only done when it is to make cards function as intended when designed (such as with certain "sorceries" from the Portal sets now are instants, as they are written they didn't work under the actual game rules, now they do.)
If, and when they do colorless basic lands (and they will, it's inevitable), they *will* have a subtype that allows them to tap for colorless, because without it, they simply wouldn't work.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
Because not having it would be changing one of the fundamental rules of the game. How basic lands work.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
That would basically accomplish the same thing as basic lands without messing with Domain or the rules of the game.
Also, doesn't Relentless Rat's ability seem like the thing they should keyword? Sorry to digress, it just seems like it would be a good thing to keyword.
"I cannot tune a harp or play a lyre, but I know how to make a small city great." - Themistocles
"The basic land (sub)types are Plains, Island, Swamp, Mountain and Forest. Each basic land subtype implicitly grants the ability to tap for one mana of its corresponding color:
Plains - T: Add to your mana pool.
Island - T: Add to your mana pool.
Swamp - T: Add to your mana pool.
Mountain - T: Add to your mana pool.
Forest - T: Add to your mana pool.
Any land with a basic land (sub)type has the appropriate ability. A land with multiple basic land (sub)types has each corresponding ability and can tap for any of the appropriate colors. However, a land with a basic land (sub)type is only a basic land if it has the Basic supertype."
So what grants a basic land the ability to tap for mana is being at least one of the basic land subtypes. This does not prevent a basic land with no subtype from producing mana if it has a line of rules text that says "T: Add 1 to your mana pool." So what's the rule that prevents this?
The whole point of basic lands is that the type they have infers them ability for them to tap in the corresponding color. This in itself makes basic lands themselves to be the cards with the shortest line of rules text short of vanilla creatures, being only one character long.
Changing the rules so that the basic supertype infers the ability for a card to tap for one colorless mana would be changing the base rules of the game. Something WotC does not want to do. The only way for them to create a colorless land, without changing the base rules of the game, is to create a new basic land type that does just that.
Additionally, changing the base rules to have the basic type infer the ability to tap for colorless in itself would completely and utterly invalidate the entire purpose of "Barry's Land" in the first place, which was to add a sixth land type for Domain without adding a new color to the game.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
"Basic lands have the shortest rules text" is not a rule. It's something that happens to be true today, but doesn't have to be true.
I see what you are getting at, but that wouldn't really be a basic land as under the current rules. Remember, the whole point of basic lands is that they are supposed to be as simple as possible. Since neither the basic supertype, nor the land type itself grants the card to tap for mana, it is necessary for a subtype to exist for the sake of the rules without them being rewritten.
But that is only one reason for why such a subtype should (and needs to) exist. Another, and not insubstantial reason for such a subtype to exist, is an issue of design space. Creating a new basic land subtype would increase the available design space for cards that care about specific land types by nearly 20%. That is a significant amount of potential design space it opens up.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
Except, to much complexity at common would be a violation of the NWO, something Maro and creative takes very seriously.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
1) "Subtypes of basic lands" and "basic land types" ARE THE EXACT SAME THING.
2) The only one making things complex is you.
I want to get new full art basics in BFZ, but I'm worried they might replace them with Barry's Land in every pack instead. Maybe the land packs in Fatpacks could be all Barry's Land to increase supply?
and can you imagine when its released, the most impressive thing about the set is... (nearly) strictly worse basic lands? new players would be completely baffled by that.
Legacy - Solidarity - mono U aggro - burn - Imperial Painter - Strawberry Shortcake - Bluuzards - bom
They can print it even in Origin and/or Battle for Zendikar.
Maybe not to ban for another format, but they should avoid print SHOCK land with Barry's subtype or any fetch land for Barry's subtype land.
Domain problem just depends on number of Barry's lands in deck and percentage to get them.
There should be not problem for rewrite some rule sentence how basic land work. EASY. They can name color for each corresponding basic land.
As far as making it easier to make colorless commander decks, yes it would make it easier but also takes some of the sport out of it. What I mean by that is making a colorless commander deck is a challenge BECAUSE you can't use basic lands. It means you have to do more research into the lands you use and the artifacts you choose to go in your deck. Not to mention there are only 3 colorless legends in all of magic that are even allowed in commander (the fourth is emrakul and he is banned).
With all the Barry's land discussion, this comment got overshadowed, but I believe it warrants discussion.
Mono colored hybrid only saw a little use. We had Reaper King and the Flame Javelin cycle, but there's a lot more space for design.
Mono hybrid would fit well with Barry's land (however they decide to do it), as well as some of the suggested "colorless matters" keywords.
Mono hybrid also give Eldrazi more substance, allowing players to cast them for cheaper if they run the colors that those Eldrazi are.
In addition, it fits into the flavor well. An Eldrazi that has been eating all the mana from mountainous regions could be cast with red mana.
And if they still wanted the Eldrazi to be colorless while having the colored mana cost, they can pull a Ghostfire and just have "This is colorless" reminder text.
My favorite part of this idea is that it actually fits well with the Tarkir block. Let's say you're running a Temur deck. While a RR cost card might be hard to play on turn 2, R/2 R/2 could be cast on turn 2, 3, or 4. Having trouble hitting that second or first red mana? No problem. Cards with mono hybrid costs making getting color-screwed a lot more manageable. Take that from a guys who ran Flame Javelin in a mono lack rogues deck just to deal with chameleon Collosus.
As far as distribution for Barry's land, I can see them including 10 (or whatever) in each prerelease pack, some amount in every precon, and one occasionally replacing a common slot in booster packs (while still having a full-art land in each booster pack as well). That should allow enough of them to be in circulation to where it won't be a problem.
About Mindslaver rulings:
Also plays rather well with Devotion decks. Kind of a shame those are rotating out.
Fully-powered 600-Card "Dream Cube" https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/dreamcube
450-Card "Artificer's Cube" https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/artificer
Cubing in Indianapolis...send me a PM!!
I suppoooose that BFZ will be a more relevant place to put such a theme.
Older Magic as a Board Game: Panglacial Wurm , Mill
To be fair, while not 100% guaranteed, it seems like a relatively safe assumption there will be new versions of the Eldrazi titans, or at least one of them, in Battle for Zendikar's block. So there is probably at least 1 new colorless Commander on the horizon.
But the people behind the barrier knew.
^ This.
A 6th "basic land" type will never be a thing. No Barry's land aka "Cave" - No to a "ruins" basic land. Sure the article is 6 years old. But this is one point I don't see MaRo going back on. Take out basic land on that Ruins land and you might just have something.
Besides, Purple is the 6th color. DUH!
Nope. This card produces a pink token.
Fully-powered 600-Card "Dream Cube" https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/dreamcube
450-Card "Artificer's Cube" https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/artificer
Cubing in Indianapolis...send me a PM!!
Purple is for Portal. See? Remember the big Inquest article many many many many moons ago?