They stated before that they dont want to repeat things so quickly with commander since its now a yearly product. They want to do diffirent things each year. Sure at some point there going to have repeat stuff but they dont want to do wedges,shards or mono color/planeswalker commanders again so soon. Plus they'd have already brainstormed ideas for 2015 commander. Im thinking its going to be two color/tribal themed. Hopefully a mix of allied and enemy color tribes.
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
WOut of the ground,I rise to grace...W BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
I'm considering the fact that they might do multicolored Planeswalker commanders this year. Previous Commander product was extremely popular and the concept of having a popular character, who is also a Planeswalker, as your commander, is very appealing. I can think of more then a few different characters who could get cards in this form.
- Ramaz
- Urza
- Sifa Grent
- Lord Windgrace
- Serra
- Azarkon
- Commador Guff
- Kristina of the Woods
- Jeska
At least three of those are mono-colored (Serra is white, Jeska is Red, Guff is Blue), and Urza is dual colored (white/blue, he's also a murderer, but that's a different story, and one that ignores that he committed Genocide in Argoth).
That said, most of them would be awesome to see as planeswalker is a supplementary product such as Commander. I'd add Taysir, Daria, Feroz, and Sandruu to the list as well.
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
I'm considering the fact that they might do multicolored Planeswalker commanders this year. Previous Commander product was extremely popular and the concept of having a popular character, who is also a Planeswalker, as your commander, is very appealing. I can think of more then a few different characters who could get cards in this form.
- Ramaz
- Urza
- Sifa Grent
- Lord Windgrace
- Serra
- Azarkon
- Commador Guff
- Kristina of the Woods
- Jeska
At least three of those are mono-colored (Serra is white, Jeska is Red, Guff is Blue), and Urza is dual colored (white/blue, he's also a murderer, but that's a different story, and one that ignores that he committed Genocide in Argoth).
That said, most of them would be awesome to see as planeswalker is a supplementary product such as Commander. I'd add Taysir, Daria, Feroz, and Sandruu to the list as well.
Um, no? While Serra is usually associated with white in cards, but her character was White/Green. Urza white? What? Urza is a Red/Blue character if there ever was one. Guff is dancing in between URW. I've read through these books and I know what I'm talking about. If they're planning to do two colour pairs, there's a lot to do.
I am going with what WotC has said: Serra is mono-white (which is why her realm started to collapse when she left, the phyrexian taint simply sped up the process). Urza was always described as blue/white in both personality and behavior (he wanted order, was motivated by vengeance and sought knowledge), he has *one* red card associated with him. And considering the very mono-blue Barrin also cast a red spell, that's not really saying much. Heck Teferi, whom is also mono-blue in his character used white mana regularly. Guff was always described as a very blue character who put knowledge above all else (Heck, he even had a hidden library).
As for the books, don't put to much stock in them, many of them where very badly written, particularly at the tail end of the Weatherlight Saga.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
I like to see hybrid commanders since we haven't had any legendary hybrid creatures before.
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():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I agree that 4-color is an obvious hole, but I discarded it because of one thing: the need to design 3 legends of 4 colors. Maro has said many times how hard it is to design a 4-color creature; designing 3 of them to be commanders or alternate commanders seems insurmountable.
They don't need to. The fact that all the previous Commander products have had two additional alternate commanders doesn't mean that is set in stone. In fact, Built From Scratch had 3 alternate commanders plus Daretti. In all previous Commander decks they've created only two new Commanders of the appropriate colour identity, so why can't this be the tradition they continue in a 4-colour product? Looking at the total number of potential Commanders is only one way of looking at it, and now that they aren't making oversized cards for the alternates it's an even less obvious perspective.
Built from Scratch only had 2 alternate commanders. Tuktuk is technically legendary, but he was not an alternate commander.
I agree that 4-color is an obvious hole, but I discarded it because of one thing: the need to design 3 legends of 4 colors. Maro has said many times how hard it is to design a 4-color creature; designing 3 of them to be commanders or alternate commanders seems insurmountable.
They don't need to. The fact that all the previous Commander products have had two additional alternate commanders doesn't mean that is set in stone. In fact, Built From Scratch had 3 alternate commanders plus Daretti. In all previous Commander decks they've created only two new Commanders of the appropriate colour identity, so why can't this be the tradition they continue in a 4-colour product? Looking at the total number of potential Commanders is only one way of looking at it, and now that they aren't making oversized cards for the alternates it's an even less obvious perspective.
Built from Scratch only had 2 alternate commanders. Tuktuk is technically legendary, but he was not an alternate commander.
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I agree that 4-color is an obvious hole, but I discarded it because of one thing: the need to design 3 legends of 4 colors. Maro has said many times how hard it is to design a 4-color creature; designing 3 of them to be commanders or alternate commanders seems insurmountable.
They don't need to. The fact that all the previous Commander products have had two additional alternate commanders doesn't mean that is set in stone. In fact, Built From Scratch had 3 alternate commanders plus Daretti. In all previous Commander decks they've created only two new Commanders of the appropriate colour identity, so why can't this be the tradition they continue in a 4-colour product? Looking at the total number of potential Commanders is only one way of looking at it, and now that they aren't making oversized cards for the alternates it's an even less obvious perspective.
Built from Scratch only had 2 alternate commanders. Tuktuk is technically legendary, but he was not an alternate commander.
What criteria are you using to determine which are the alternate commanders? I was under the impression that there was only one oversized card in each deck (the planeswalker), unlike previous years where all three potential commanders had one. Without this, what indication is there that Tuktuk is not an alternate commander? There's certainly nothing stopping you from putting Tuktuk in the command zone and shuffling Daretti into the other 99, which as far as I'm concerned is exactly what "alternate commander" means.
I agree that 4-color is an obvious hole, but I discarded it because of one thing: the need to design 3 legends of 4 colors. Maro has said many times how hard it is to design a 4-color creature; designing 3 of them to be commanders or alternate commanders seems insurmountable.
They don't need to. The fact that all the previous Commander products have had two additional alternate commanders doesn't mean that is set in stone. In fact, Built From Scratch had 3 alternate commanders plus Daretti. In all previous Commander decks they've created only two new Commanders of the appropriate colour identity, so why can't this be the tradition they continue in a 4-colour product? Looking at the total number of potential Commanders is only one way of looking at it, and now that they aren't making oversized cards for the alternates it's an even less obvious perspective.
Built from Scratch only had 2 alternate commanders. Tuktuk is technically legendary, but he was not an alternate commander.
What criteria are you using to determine which are the alternate commanders? I was under the impression that there was only one oversized card in each deck (the planeswalker), unlike previous years where all three potential commanders had one. Without this, what indication is there that Tuktuk is not an alternate commander? There's certainly nothing stopping you from putting Tuktuk in the command zone and shuffling Daretti into the other 99, which as far as I'm concerned is exactly what "alternate commander" means.
The fact that Tuktuk doesn't function like a Commander for the deck at all. Bosh and Feldon work with the deck's theme and can substitute for Daretti. Tuktuk is just a creature thrown in for a death trigger. Every single Commander deck has had a featured commander, a new alternate commander, and a reprinted alternate commander. In Built from Scratch these are Daretti, Feldon, and Bosh.
While I don't expect it this year, because Magic Origins will be printed, I expect we very likely could see a lot more planeswalker reprints in Commander decks in future years, because there IS no core set, so reprints of the more "basic" versions of the Planeswalkers aren't likely to have somewhere to see printing again. Because it is a $30 product, a $5-6 dollar reprint won't distort things too badly, and will make them more accessible to casual players.
I've been thinking about it, as the change in block format really throws a wrench into things. As it stands, we usually see 5 planeswalkers across a 3 set block, and then 5 (rarely six) mono color planeswalkers in the core.
Because blocks now go down to 2 sets, I don't know if we'll see 5 planeswalkers a block anymore, and it would be a shame if there's no outlet for some of the more "generic" versions of the planeswalkers.
I agree that 4-color is an obvious hole, but I discarded it because of one thing: the need to design 3 legends of 4 colors. Maro has said many times how hard it is to design a 4-color creature; designing 3 of them to be commanders or alternate commanders seems insurmountable.
They don't need to. The fact that all the previous Commander products have had two additional alternate commanders doesn't mean that is set in stone. In fact, Built From Scratch had 3 alternate commanders plus Daretti. In all previous Commander decks they've created only two new Commanders of the appropriate colour identity, so why can't this be the tradition they continue in a 4-colour product? Looking at the total number of potential Commanders is only one way of looking at it, and now that they aren't making oversized cards for the alternates it's an even less obvious perspective.
Built from Scratch only had 2 alternate commanders. Tuktuk is technically legendary, but he was not an alternate commander.
What criteria are you using to determine which are the alternate commanders? I was under the impression that there was only one oversized card in each deck (the planeswalker), unlike previous years where all three potential commanders had one. Without this, what indication is there that Tuktuk is not an alternate commander? There's certainly nothing stopping you from putting Tuktuk in the command zone and shuffling Daretti into the other 99, which as far as I'm concerned is exactly what "alternate commander" means.
The fact that Tuktuk doesn't function like a Commander for the deck at all. Bosh and Feldon work with the deck's theme and can substitute for Daretti. Tuktuk is just a creature thrown in for a death trigger. Every single Commander deck has had a featured commander, a new alternate commander, and a reprinted alternate commander. In Built from Scratch these are Daretti, Feldon, and Bosh.
Many of the previous Commander decks had alternate commanders that wanted totally different strategies from the primary commander (where's the Thraximundar support in Mind Seize, for example?). There was never a question that these were not truly "alternate commanders". Eridanis and krishnath are both talking purely about colour identity. This is something we can measure within objective criteria: you can simply take Tuktuk as your commander and have a legal deck. While you raise a good point it's invariably going into fuzzy decisions about how much "theme" is required that I don't think justifies the black-and-white approach you're taking.
This post on Blogatog about enemy-colored Elder Dragons is interesting. I've got a feeling that smiley is one of those "you're so close but I can't say so" smiles. Perhaps they anticipated the players' desire for enemy dragons to compliment the ally dragons in FRF and DTK and decided to use the Commander product as an excuse to design some?
Another consideration: In addition to a cycle of quad legends, they include ten tricolor legends and ten dual color legends, one for each trio and pair? Each deck would get 5-6 legends that way, one or two quads plus one each of ally, enemy, shard, and wedge. The WUBR deck for example could have WUBR, UB, RW, WUB, and RWU. The pairs and trios could be reprints or new.
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Manite-
I generally try to be optimistic with MtG,
but I would not hold my breath for four color Commander decks if I were you.
They'll almost certainly do pairs first,
then they may just go back to a theme they've already done like wedges.
They have also mentioned that four color is difficult to design for,
and I believe they think the actual demand for them is rather low.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
That's pretty much a 180 from things he's said before
It really isn't. As he says in the first link, he has previously said it would be difficult. As so often happens with official statements by WotC employees, many people took away an impression of what this meant that they then confused with the literal wording. As he says in that blog post, he only ever said it was difficult and it is absolutely true that he's not let "difficult" stop him in the past. Every time a new Commander product has come out, his Making Magic about the design has mentioned 4-colour being considered; those who take what we might call a "half-empty" interpretation of this see only the reasons that they ended up deciding not to do it, those who take the "half-full" interpretation note that they keep trying. Honestly, to assume that MaRo or even R&D in general has just given up on this is to completely ignore how MaRo (and R&D in general) approach difficult problems.
BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
At least three of those are mono-colored (Serra is white, Jeska is Red, Guff is Blue), and Urza is dual colored (white/blue, he's also a murderer, but that's a different story, and one that ignores that he committed Genocide in Argoth).
That said, most of them would be awesome to see as planeswalker is a supplementary product such as Commander. I'd add Taysir, Daria, Feroz, and Sandruu to the list as well.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
I am going with what WotC has said: Serra is mono-white (which is why her realm started to collapse when she left, the phyrexian taint simply sped up the process). Urza was always described as blue/white in both personality and behavior (he wanted order, was motivated by vengeance and sought knowledge), he has *one* red card associated with him. And considering the very mono-blue Barrin also cast a red spell, that's not really saying much. Heck Teferi, whom is also mono-blue in his character used white mana regularly. Guff was always described as a very blue character who put knowledge above all else (Heck, he even had a hidden library).
As for the books, don't put to much stock in them, many of them where very badly written, particularly at the tail end of the Weatherlight Saga.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
except for Rhys the redeemed Sapling of Colfenor, Sygg, river cutthroat, Rosheen Meanderer and Wort, the raidmother?
“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.”
—Volrath
Built from Scratch only had 2 alternate commanders. Tuktuk is technically legendary, but he was not an alternate commander.
Wow totally missed those.
Bosh, Iron Golem is the alternate commander.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
What criteria are you using to determine which are the alternate commanders? I was under the impression that there was only one oversized card in each deck (the planeswalker), unlike previous years where all three potential commanders had one. Without this, what indication is there that Tuktuk is not an alternate commander? There's certainly nothing stopping you from putting Tuktuk in the command zone and shuffling Daretti into the other 99, which as far as I'm concerned is exactly what "alternate commander" means.
The fact that Tuktuk doesn't function like a Commander for the deck at all. Bosh and Feldon work with the deck's theme and can substitute for Daretti. Tuktuk is just a creature thrown in for a death trigger. Every single Commander deck has had a featured commander, a new alternate commander, and a reprinted alternate commander. In Built from Scratch these are Daretti, Feldon, and Bosh.
I've been thinking about it, as the change in block format really throws a wrench into things. As it stands, we usually see 5 planeswalkers across a 3 set block, and then 5 (rarely six) mono color planeswalkers in the core.
Because blocks now go down to 2 sets, I don't know if we'll see 5 planeswalkers a block anymore, and it would be a shame if there's no outlet for some of the more "generic" versions of the planeswalkers.
Many of the previous Commander decks had alternate commanders that wanted totally different strategies from the primary commander (where's the Thraximundar support in Mind Seize, for example?). There was never a question that these were not truly "alternate commanders". Eridanis and krishnath are both talking purely about colour identity. This is something we can measure within objective criteria: you can simply take Tuktuk as your commander and have a legal deck. While you raise a good point it's invariably going into fuzzy decisions about how much "theme" is required that I don't think justifies the black-and-white approach you're taking.
Another consideration: In addition to a cycle of quad legends, they include ten tricolor legends and ten dual color legends, one for each trio and pair? Each deck would get 5-6 legends that way, one or two quads plus one each of ally, enemy, shard, and wedge. The WUBR deck for example could have WUBR, UB, RW, WUB, and RWU. The pairs and trios could be reprints or new.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
I generally try to be optimistic with MtG,
but I would not hold my breath for four color Commander decks if I were you.
They'll almost certainly do pairs first,
then they may just go back to a theme they've already done like wedges.
They have also mentioned that four color is difficult to design for,
and I believe they think the actual demand for them is rather low.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
That's pretty much a 180 from things he's said before,
but I guess they eventually recognized the demand after all!
I still wouldn't expect those this year if I were you-
Two-color decks are arguably the most popular in EDH,
so I would definitely expect those first.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
It really isn't. As he says in the first link, he has previously said it would be difficult. As so often happens with official statements by WotC employees, many people took away an impression of what this meant that they then confused with the literal wording. As he says in that blog post, he only ever said it was difficult and it is absolutely true that he's not let "difficult" stop him in the past. Every time a new Commander product has come out, his Making Magic about the design has mentioned 4-colour being considered; those who take what we might call a "half-empty" interpretation of this see only the reasons that they ended up deciding not to do it, those who take the "half-full" interpretation note that they keep trying. Honestly, to assume that MaRo or even R&D in general has just given up on this is to completely ignore how MaRo (and R&D in general) approach difficult problems.
Or it is possible to:
I honestly can't see Wizards making four color decks, only because I think that would give them too much variability.
Dunes of Zairo
SHANDALAR
Innistrad - The Darkest Night
~THE RAVNICAN CONSORTIUM~
A Community Set
Commander: Allies & Adversaries