The trouble with graveyard interaction in Sultai is that would fight with Delve for resources when Delve already fights with itself. I can see them going in a direction that helps you fill your graveyard, perhaps a new take on Channel, a creature sacrificing effect or cost, or even grinding yourself and getting an effect equal to the number of cards milled.
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Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Today, I found Glittering Wish. I don't know for you, but that ability feel really Sultai to me. Story wise, the Sultai's Khans were making pact with Rakshasa (demon cat) to gain power and influence. In Khans of Tarkir set, this was represented with Delve. In Dragon of Tarkir, Rakshasa could make greater pact with Dragon/Silumgar and retrieve lost power(exiled card). Though, I don't know how this would do once Tarkir and Fate will rotate in 2016....
Color wise, this is possible. Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver kind of summon creature from the exile. Torrent Elemental and Misthollow Griffin cast themselves from the exile.
Second idea for a Sultai mechanic, Soulflayer gain ability. Though Delve is out for Dragon of Tarkir. Maybe something like "Kicker exile x or 2 card from yard : Creature Name gain *** ability or put X counter or Target creature gain -x/-x".
Third idea for a Sultai mechanic, "Avidity (card type and/or card quantity) : If said card you own are in the exile, effect".
Rakshasa, Soul Collector --- BBB
Avidity (X Creature Card): Rakshasa,
Soul Collector gain +X/+X for each
creature card you own in the exile.
0/1
Counter Spell --- 1UB
Counter target spell.
Avidity (Instant, Sorcery): Controller
of the countered spell lose 2 life and
you gain 2 life.
There's always Grind for Silumgar. Almost became Dimir's mechanic in Gatecrash, why not use it for the Dimir-colored dragon brood? Having target player mill to their next land card works both as a wincon in its own right and as fuel for Delve. But, my guess is that the Brood mechanics will work well not only with their Clan counterparts but with their neighboring Broods as well, to create overlaps. My guess for Silumgar's mechanic then is that either it will care about cards of some subgroup being put into a graveyard in some way, perhaps similar to Morbid, or it will reward players for dealing combat damage to a player, also known as saboteur abilities like seen on Stealer of Secrets and Stromkirk Patrol.
Detain with a different flavor would work well for Ojutai as it's easy to put on noncreature spells which would give Ojutai's mechanic a tangental connection to Prowess similar to how +1/+1 counters are the connection between Bolster and Outlast; Ojutai spells work with Prowess because they're noncreature spells, not because the Ojutai mechanic itself cares about noncreature spells. A mechanic that allows you to cast nonland cards from the top of your library for a short duration of time could also work well, both as a means of playing creatures with Prowess (or for that matter, Morph) and noncreature spells that trigger Prowess. The biggest obstacle for such a mechanic is that any instants or cards with flash, generally Jeskai's favorite, that have the mechanic would then enable you to cast other spells at instant speed which could be a developmental problem.
Since Dromoka already has a +1/+1 counter mechanic, Atarka won't likely get one for the sake of avoiding redundancy, though if it did Bloodthirst would be as fitting for it as Detain is for Ojutai and Morbid is for Silumgar. A keyword variant of the Slith mechanic would also be appropriate as it rewards aggression with growth. And a +1/+1 counter-specific variant of Kicker or Multikicker would be a great way to turn extra mana into a bigger creature. My first impression would be a Multikicker variant that puts a +1/+1 counter on the creature for each time the cost is paid, but an alternate cost that checks the creature's default power could also be interesting.
Bulky Bear 1G
Creature - Bear
Enchanced 2G(You may cast this spell for its enchanced cost. If you do, this creature enters the battlefield with a number of +1/+1 counters on it equal to its power.)
2/1
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MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Do we not already know what two of the DTK clan mechanics will be:
Abzan --> Outlast became Bolster (W or WG in DTK)
Mardu --> Raid became Dash (R or BR in DTK)
The question is what the last three will be:
Jeskai --> Prowess will become ??? (U or UW)... this new mechanic will be blue in nature.
Sultai --> Delve will become ??? (B or BU)... this new mechanic will be black in nature.
Temur --> Ferocious will become ??? (G or GR)... this new mechanic will be green in nature.
Do we not already know what two of the DTK clan mechanics will be:
Abzan --> Outlast became Bolster (W or WG in DTK)
Mardu --> Raid became Dash (R or BR in DTK)
The question is what the last three will be:
Jeskai --> Prowess will become ??? (U or UW)... this new mechanic will be blue in nature.
Sultai --> Delve will become ??? (B or BU)... this new mechanic will be black in nature.
Temur --> Ferocious will become ??? (G or GR)... this new mechanic will be green in nature.
Yeah, we do know what 2 of the 5 new mechanic are. And we are speculating on the remaining 3.
Looking at the Fate Reforged spoilers, I may have found some clues for the Sultai mechanic, namely Rakshasa's Disdain and Grave Strength.
Both of these cards care about how big your graveyard is and keeping it full, making them play poorly with delve; that's why they stand out to me.
As stated by R&D, Fate Reforged will be drafted with both KTK and DTK, and in both drafts, certain cards will be played differently, and maybe those 2 cards are indications of the difference between the sultais from the 2 timelines.
Now, I speculate that the sultai mechanic from DTK will be similar to Threshold, caring about achieving a certain number of cards in your graveyard and providing a bonus.
Looking at the Fate Reforged spoilers, I may have found some clues for the Sultai mechanic, namely Rakshasa's Disdain and Grave Strength.
Both of these cards care about how big your graveyard is and keeping it full, making them play poorly with delve; that's why they stand out to me.
As stated by R&D, Fate Reforged will be drafted with both KTK and DTK, and in both drafts, certain cards will be played differently, and maybe those 2 cards are indications of the difference between the sultais from the 2 timelines.
Now, I speculate that the sultai mechanic from DTK will be similar to Threshold, caring about achieving a certain number of cards in your graveyard and providing a bonus.
While it's true that the new mechanics should play differently than the old ones, they should still play well together in constructed; Bolster and outlast play well together, if mostly because of many of the outlast cards having 'creatures you control with +1/+1 counters get x' clauses in them. Dash and Raid work even better together for obvious reasons. Dash and Bolster both enable the Outlast and Raid cards. Threshold does not play well with or enable Delve, since they're both competing for the same resource. I think it's more likely to be something similar to dredge, that will have you mill yourself for some effect.
Since Silumgar will be just UB as far as we know, a milling mechanic that you can use against either another player or yourself would be better than just strictly self mill. Perhaps it will first mill a player, then do something if a particular card was milled.
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MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Also, seeing how two out of five dragons actually have the new keywords (Bolster and Dash), and the others have abilities that could be keyworded, maybe the new Jeskai ability is the freeze effect, the new Sultai one is "Weaken" (giving -1/-1 to an opposing creature until EOT, as an attack trigger or added effect) and the new Temur one is ability boosts when attacking (double strike on Atarka, but anything useful, even if minor on other stuff).
Okay, how about:
Sultai --> Delve will become 'Banish' (B or BU clan), where 'Banish X' = Exile X cards from target player's graveyard, if a creature card is exiled in this way then put a -1/-1 counter on target creature.
-1/-1 counters are never used alongside +1/+1 counters in the same set because they cause too much confusion together.
I like the idea of Silumgar using a Clashy version of milling like "Target player scours 3. If a creature card is scoured this way, [effect]. (To scour 3, that player puts the top three cards of his or her library into his or her graveyard.)"
The basic components are the scouring effect itself, which defines the number of cards to be scoured, and in most cases a secondary effect that checks to see if a card of a particular subgroup, like a creature card for example, was scoured. Most scour effects can target any player so it can be used either as a weapon against an opponent or as self-mill utility. This enables Scour to function on its own while also playing well with Delve.
Something we have to keep in mind is that DTK's mechanics will exist in Standard without KTK's mechanics following KTK and FRF's rotation, which will happen before DTK's as part of the transition to the Two Block paradigm. This means that DTK's mechanics will need to be able to play well by themselves and not depend on KTK to support them while still playing well with the KTK mechanics.
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Desecrate - As you exile ~ from your graveyard, you may {pay a cost}. If you do, {effect}.
For example:
It would play well with delve and the self-mill theme and get around the problem of milling your key cards.
What do you think?
The problem is, you'll only have one pack worth of Delve cards (in limited, and one set's worth in standard once Khans rotates) to enable this, which seems too inconsistent IMO.
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I'm guessing we're going to lean away from 3 color into 2 color, based on the placement of dash and bolster effects.
Because of that, I'm guessing we'll be moving away from mechanics that match the dropped color well.
For instance, Jeskai likes playing non-creature spells, partly because white likes enchantments being played, and blue and red tend to both like instants and sorceries being played, and all 3 like tempo mechanics.
Dropping red reduces the theme-matching there, pushing away from creatures working off non-creature spells. The dragon lord and the monastery seige hint at controlly lock-down effects, which plays well into both blue and white's color pies (Propaganda being a color-shifted Ghostly Prison). So I suspect we'll see some kind of mechanic that makes it difficult for the opponent to do stuff. I'd be disappointed but not overly surprised to see a return of the Azorius detain mechanic, or perhaps something similar under a new name.
This kind of thing would play well with the tempo themes of the Jeskai, although we could be shifting more towards control elements and a sort of lockdown theme as a potential strategy.
---
Sultai is dropping green. Losing green cuts out a lot of the recursion aspects of graveyard play. The only major shared blue/black themes I can think of are very tough creatures and milling. I could see milling sneaking in as a side-theme, if only as an excuse to reprint Glimpse the Unthinkable, but I can't see it being the main clan mechanic.
Palace Siege and the blue/black dragon however, again give us potential hints. I could easily see a sort of 'pingy' theme steadily weakening an opponent, which both blue and black dabble in with different ways. The trick would be finding a way in which they could match, and the strategy would work well with older sultai delve stuff. Perhaps something that you can activate whenever a card enters your graveyard? Or maybe something that lets you mill yourself to deal a small amount of direct damage to an opponent? Or maybe something that both penalizes the power of opponent creatures and deals direct damage to them in a small amount and is triggered by something related to the graveyard?
Whatever it is, I kinda hope it synergizes better with delve (or at least Sultai in general) than delve does with itself.
---
Temur is dropping blue, interestingly, this appears to mean the loss of the 'giant monsters' theme, as such a strategy isn't usually very red in nature, other than dragons themselves, as Kiora shows that blue has a sort of giant-sea-monsters thing going for it towards higher cmcs, especially when paired with green.
Frontier siege uses the fight mechanic in it's dragon mode, while the dragon gets double strike when attacking. The first of which is somewhat shared, the second of which is primarily red/white, not green at all, so can't be interpreted too directly related to the dstrike. Red and green are also noted for sharing trample.
We also want something that plays well with ferocious and older Temur stuff, so something friendly with big creatures.
I'm not really sure what kind of thing could fit well here. Hmm... maybe a mana related thing, since red has rituals and green has land ramp and mana dorks, and relate that thing to dealing damage? Perhaps a mechanic that causes damage you deal to be saved up as 'energy' counters that can be spent to gain mana?
Guesses on the mechanics with cards that support each theory:
UB: something to do with sacrifice/creatures dying. Maybe something where you can sacrifice a creature for a kicker effect or to make the spell cheaper. Possibly named exploit. Tom LaPille said that sultai emissary "is a nice card. [Louie Mechanic] will love it." Other cards that support this theory-Jeskai Sage, Marang river prowler, quarsi high priest, merciless executioner,noxious dragon.
Uw: auras matter. would play well with theros. Cards that support this theory: Cloudform, lightform, lotus eye mystics, sage's reverie, jeskai infiltrator(good for stacking auras onto), shu yun
Rg: saboteurs. cards that support this theory: Atarka(double strike would double saboteur triggers), break through the line, goblin heelcutter, shaman of the great hunt,temur battle rage, rage form, temur runemark, shockmaw
Guesses on the mechanics with cards that support each theory:
UB: something to do with sacrifice/creatures dying. Maybe something where you can sacrifice a creature for a kicker effect or to make the spell cheaper. Possibly named exploit. Tom LaPille said that sultai emissary "is a nice card. [Louie Mechanic] will love it." Other cards that support this theory-Jeskai Sage, Marang river prowler, quarsi high priest, merciless executioner,noxious dragon.
Uw: auras matter. would play well with theros. Cards that support this theory: Cloudform, lightform, lotus eye mystics, sage's reverie, jeskai infiltrator(good for stacking auras onto), shu yun
Rg: saboteurs. cards that support this theory: Atarka(double strike would double saboteur triggers), break through the line, goblin heelcutter, shaman of the great hunt,temur battle rage, rage form, temur runemark, shockmaw
UB might have something to do with sacrifice or dying to boost a spell, but that really just feels mono-B since U doesn't really do that kind of thing. Perhaps if it was something along the lines of 'sac a creature, target player mills x'. That way it could be used to fuel delve or to mill out an opponent and feels a bit more UB rather than just B. Dredge would be really cool and would work really well here, but I don't think it'll happen. Partially because of the power level, but also because sultai already got an 'old' mechanic in delve, so I think the odds of them getting another mechanic that's already been used before is pretty slim. It also doesn't make as much sense if sultai loses green.
UW being auras matter is... meh. Maybe. Cloudform and lightform also had rageform, so it seemed like that cycle was in there more for prowess than the new mechanic (which probably won't have any red). Not to mention blue doesn't really use auras too much more often than any of the other colors, and when it does they're more often negative things like encrust. Plus, blue and white's biggest similarity is their ability to stall with non-creature spells. I just feel like it only being about auras would be a bit too narrow and focus a little too heavily on creatures. Whether it's about enchantments or not, I feel like it will be a mechanic that's put on more non-creature cards rather than on the creatures themselves so it'll play nice with prowess without competing too much for the same space.
RG saboteurs doesn't actually make sense to me. Blue gets saboteurs a lot so Temur getting saboteurs after dropping blue seems weird, and while it doesn't play badly with ferocious it doesn't really synergize with it at all, either. The only thing that really does synergize with ferocious is big creatures. Red and green both have mana production, (albeit red's is temporary) which would also enable you to play big ferocious enabling creatures early, so something to do with that could work. Both colors also play a lot of creatures and get a lot of temporary growth effects. Something along the lines of 'when a creature enters the battlefield under your control ~ gets +1/+1 until eot' would make sense and play well with ferocious. Sort of an inverse of prowess, which actually kind of makes sense to me. Perhaps making it +1/+0 or even +n/+0 so you could give it a variable number and make it a bit less similar to prowess. Would probably have to change it to 'cast a creature' spell as to not be busted with token generators. Also probably limit it to triggering once per turn if you made the number variable.
Something along the lines of 'when a creature enters the battlefield under your control ~ gets +1/+1 until eot' would make sense and play well with ferocious. Sort of an inverse of prowess, which actually kind of makes sense to me. Perhaps making it +1/+0 or even +n/+0 so you could give it a variable number and make it a bit less similar to prowess. Would probably have to change it to 'cast a creature' spell as to not be busted with token generators.
Yeah, an inverse of prowess would be kind of cool for G/GR.. creature spells instead of non-creature spells, affects the group instead of the individual. Something like: Strengthen - whenever you cast a creatue spell, all other creatures you control get +1/+1 until end of turn. (or perhaps a +1/+0 Enrage effect for all your creatures, if +1/+1 is too strong)
UB might have something to do with sacrifice or dying to boost a spell, but that really just feels mono-B since U doesn't really do that kind of thing. Perhaps if it was something along the lines of 'sac a creature, target player mills x'. That way it could be used to fuel delve or to mill out an opponent and feels a bit more UB rather than just B.
Blue would get it on non-creatures, black would get it on creatures. Not so keen on the mill thing just because ub has been doing that forever and nearly everyone is sick of it. The sac mechanic is more black than blue but that is because sultai is black centered. Same reason dash is more red that black.
UW being auras matter is... meh. Maybe. Cloudform and lightform also had rageform, so it seemed like that cycle was in there more for prowess than the new mechanic (which probably won't have any red). Not to mention blue doesn't really use auras too much more often than any of the other colors, and when it does they're more often negative things like encrust. Plus, blue and white's biggest similarity is their ability to stall with non-creature spells. I just feel like it only being about auras would be a bit too narrow and focus a little too heavily on creatures. Whether it's about enchantments or not, I feel like it will be a mechanic that's put on more non-creature cards rather than on the creatures themselves so it'll play nice with prowess without competing too much for the same space.
I wasn't terribly interested in another aura's matter thing either but that is what lept out at me from the cards i saw. Jeskai has gotten several enchantment/voltron cards in fate reforged that seem to lead away from the instant and sorcery matters theme it had in khans. In a small set I think cards like sage's reverie would not be worth their space if they didn't synergize with a later mechanic. That said an instant/sorcery mechanic would be nice. maybe something like flashcast (you may cast ~ for its flashcast cost, if you do you may cast it anytime you could play an instant). Would go on sorceries and some enchantments.
Yeah, an inverse of prowess would be kind of cool for G/GR.. creature spells instead of non-creature spells, affects the group instead of the individual. Something like: Strengthen - whenever you cast a creature spell, all other creatures you control get +1/+1 until end of turn. (or perhaps a +1/+0 Enrage effect for all your creatures, if +1/+1 is too strong)
Or a permanent boost. Something like Energize (whenever a creature ETB, you may pay (R/G), if you do put a +1/+1 counter on it). I had not thought of it but it would go much better with the double strike and trample cards that i thought were evidence of sabateurs.
UB might have something to do with sacrifice or dying to boost a spell, but that really just feels mono-B since U doesn't really do that kind of thing. Perhaps if it was something along the lines of 'sac a creature, target player mills x'. That way it could be used to fuel delve or to mill out an opponent and feels a bit more UB rather than just B.
Blue would get it on non-creatures, black would get it on creatures. Not so keen on the mill thing just because ub has been doing that forever and nearly everyone is sick of it. The sac mechanic is more black than blue but that is because sultai is black centered. Same reason dash is more red that black.
UW being auras matter is... meh. Maybe. Cloudform and lightform also had rageform, so it seemed like that cycle was in there more for prowess than the new mechanic (which probably won't have any red). Not to mention blue doesn't really use auras too much more often than any of the other colors, and when it does they're more often negative things like encrust. Plus, blue and white's biggest similarity is their ability to stall with non-creature spells. I just feel like it only being about auras would be a bit too narrow and focus a little too heavily on creatures. Whether it's about enchantments or not, I feel like it will be a mechanic that's put on more non-creature cards rather than on the creatures themselves so it'll play nice with prowess without competing too much for the same space.
I wasn't terribly interested in another aura's matter thing either but that is what lept out at me from the cards i saw. Jeskai has gotten several enchantment/voltron cards in fate reforged that seem to lead away from the instant and sorcery matters theme it had in khans. In a small set I think cards like sage's reverie would not be worth their space if they didn't synergize with a later mechanic. That said an instant/sorcery mechanic would be nice. maybe something like flashcast (you may cast ~ for its flashcast cost, if you do you may cast it anytime you could play an instant). Would go on sorceries and some enchantments.
Yeah, an inverse of prowess would be kind of cool for G/GR.. creature spells instead of non-creature spells, affects the group instead of the individual. Something like: Strengthen - whenever you cast a creature spell, all other creatures you control get +1/+1 until end of turn. (or perhaps a +1/+0 Enrage effect for all your creatures, if +1/+1 is too strong)
Or a permanent boost. Something like Energize (whenever a creature ETB, you may pay (R/G), if you do put a +1/+1 counter on it). I had not thought of it but it would go much better with the double strike and trample cards that i thought were evidence of sabateurs.
Fair enough, dash isn't particularly black, so sultai or UB getting a mechanic that feels much more black than blue wouldn't be too out of place in that context.
I saw sage's reverie as more of a throwback to heroic and bestow from Theros than a forecast of things to come. They do print cards that synergize with future mechanics, but they also print ones that synergize with the previous block's mechanics for the sake of standard.
I had thought of a more permanent boost like that, and while it would fit, I don't think it'll happen. Mostly because having two different +1/+1 counter mechanics on different factions in the same set would be a bit too much, and there's no other easy way to keep track of a permanent boost on a creature.
The prospect of Silumgar getting a sac mechanic reminds me of a mechanic I designed for a quad set recently: Offer, basically a reworked "-name- offering" that strips away the casting at instant speed and uses Convoke and Delve's new "pays for" technology in place of Offering's "pay the difference". Funny thing is, the quad that uses it is BRGW, the nonblue quad. But since black would be Silumgar's lead color, it wouldn't be that much stranger than blue getting Morbid or for that matter Delve.
Something akin to the Slith mechanic would work for Atarka, but as already mentioned a second +1/+1 counter mechanic in the same set might feel redundant.
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Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Wizards print good rares, players complain about cash grab. They print underwhelming rares, players complain that the cards suck. They spoil the best cards first, players complain about the insane prices of preorders. They spoil the meh cards first, players complain that this is the worst set ever.
So. I think I understand now.
As far as these forums are concerned, WotC can never do anything good because:
Card that is new and probably good = "pushed"
Card that is new and probably bad = "EDH/casual fodder"
Card that is a reprint = "lazy"
Card that is a better version of an older card = "power creep"
Card that is a weaker version of an older card = "worthless"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
Color wise, this is possible. Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver kind of summon creature from the exile. Torrent Elemental and Misthollow Griffin cast themselves from the exile.
Second idea for a Sultai mechanic, Soulflayer gain ability. Though Delve is out for Dragon of Tarkir. Maybe something like "Kicker exile x or 2 card from yard : Creature Name gain *** ability or put X counter or Target creature gain -x/-x".
Third idea for a Sultai mechanic, "Avidity (card type and/or card quantity) : If said card you own are in the exile, effect".
Avidity (X Creature Card): Rakshasa,
Soul Collector gain +X/+X for each
creature card you own in the exile.
0/1
Counter target spell.
Avidity (Instant, Sorcery): Controller
of the countered spell lose 2 life and
you gain 2 life.
Detain with a different flavor would work well for Ojutai as it's easy to put on noncreature spells which would give Ojutai's mechanic a tangental connection to Prowess similar to how +1/+1 counters are the connection between Bolster and Outlast; Ojutai spells work with Prowess because they're noncreature spells, not because the Ojutai mechanic itself cares about noncreature spells. A mechanic that allows you to cast nonland cards from the top of your library for a short duration of time could also work well, both as a means of playing creatures with Prowess (or for that matter, Morph) and noncreature spells that trigger Prowess. The biggest obstacle for such a mechanic is that any instants or cards with flash, generally Jeskai's favorite, that have the mechanic would then enable you to cast other spells at instant speed which could be a developmental problem.
Since Dromoka already has a +1/+1 counter mechanic, Atarka won't likely get one for the sake of avoiding redundancy, though if it did Bloodthirst would be as fitting for it as Detain is for Ojutai and Morbid is for Silumgar. A keyword variant of the Slith mechanic would also be appropriate as it rewards aggression with growth. And a +1/+1 counter-specific variant of Kicker or Multikicker would be a great way to turn extra mana into a bigger creature. My first impression would be a Multikicker variant that puts a +1/+1 counter on the creature for each time the cost is paid, but an alternate cost that checks the creature's default power could also be interesting.
Bulky Bear 1G
Creature - Bear
Enchanced 2G (You may cast this spell for its enchanced cost. If you do, this creature enters the battlefield with a number of +1/+1 counters on it equal to its power.)
2/1
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
Abzan --> Outlast became Bolster (W or WG in DTK)
Mardu --> Raid became Dash (R or BR in DTK)
The question is what the last three will be:
Jeskai --> Prowess will become ??? (U or UW)... this new mechanic will be blue in nature.
Sultai --> Delve will become ??? (B or BU)... this new mechanic will be black in nature.
Temur --> Ferocious will become ??? (G or GR)... this new mechanic will be green in nature.
Yeah, we do know what 2 of the 5 new mechanic are. And we are speculating on the remaining 3.
Both of these cards care about how big your graveyard is and keeping it full, making them play poorly with delve; that's why they stand out to me.
As stated by R&D, Fate Reforged will be drafted with both KTK and DTK, and in both drafts, certain cards will be played differently, and maybe those 2 cards are indications of the difference between the sultais from the 2 timelines.
Now, I speculate that the sultai mechanic from DTK will be similar to Threshold, caring about achieving a certain number of cards in your graveyard and providing a bonus.
While it's true that the new mechanics should play differently than the old ones, they should still play well together in constructed; Bolster and outlast play well together, if mostly because of many of the outlast cards having 'creatures you control with +1/+1 counters get x' clauses in them. Dash and Raid work even better together for obvious reasons. Dash and Bolster both enable the Outlast and Raid cards. Threshold does not play well with or enable Delve, since they're both competing for the same resource. I think it's more likely to be something similar to dredge, that will have you mill yourself for some effect.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
Also, seeing how two out of five dragons actually have the new keywords (Bolster and Dash), and the others have abilities that could be keyworded, maybe the new Jeskai ability is the freeze effect, the new Sultai one is "Weaken" (giving -1/-1 to an opposing creature until EOT, as an attack trigger or added effect) and the new Temur one is ability boosts when attacking (double strike on Atarka, but anything useful, even if minor on other stuff).
Sultai --> Delve will become 'Banish' (B or BU clan), where 'Banish X' = Exile X cards from target player's graveyard, if a creature card is exiled in this way then put a -1/-1 counter on target creature.
I like the idea of Silumgar using a Clashy version of milling like "Target player scours 3. If a creature card is scoured this way, [effect]. (To scour 3, that player puts the top three cards of his or her library into his or her graveyard.)"
The basic components are the scouring effect itself, which defines the number of cards to be scoured, and in most cases a secondary effect that checks to see if a card of a particular subgroup, like a creature card for example, was scoured. Most scour effects can target any player so it can be used either as a weapon against an opponent or as self-mill utility. This enables Scour to function on its own while also playing well with Delve.
Something we have to keep in mind is that DTK's mechanics will exist in Standard without KTK's mechanics following KTK and FRF's rotation, which will happen before DTK's as part of the transition to the Two Block paradigm. This means that DTK's mechanics will need to be able to play well by themselves and not depend on KTK to support them while still playing well with the KTK mechanics.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
Desecrate - As you exile ~ from your graveyard, you may {pay a cost}. If you do, {effect}.
For example:
It would play well with delve and the self-mill theme and get around the problem of milling your key cards.
What do you think?
My Modern Decks:
BGWAbzan MidrangeWGB
UWRJeskai NahiriRWU
BRUGrixis ControlURB
The problem is, you'll only have one pack worth of Delve cards (in limited, and one set's worth in standard once Khans rotates) to enable this, which seems too inconsistent IMO.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
Because of that, I'm guessing we'll be moving away from mechanics that match the dropped color well.
For instance, Jeskai likes playing non-creature spells, partly because white likes enchantments being played, and blue and red tend to both like instants and sorceries being played, and all 3 like tempo mechanics.
Dropping red reduces the theme-matching there, pushing away from creatures working off non-creature spells. The dragon lord and the monastery seige hint at controlly lock-down effects, which plays well into both blue and white's color pies (Propaganda being a color-shifted Ghostly Prison). So I suspect we'll see some kind of mechanic that makes it difficult for the opponent to do stuff. I'd be disappointed but not overly surprised to see a return of the Azorius detain mechanic, or perhaps something similar under a new name.
This kind of thing would play well with the tempo themes of the Jeskai, although we could be shifting more towards control elements and a sort of lockdown theme as a potential strategy.
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Sultai is dropping green. Losing green cuts out a lot of the recursion aspects of graveyard play. The only major shared blue/black themes I can think of are very tough creatures and milling. I could see milling sneaking in as a side-theme, if only as an excuse to reprint Glimpse the Unthinkable, but I can't see it being the main clan mechanic.
Palace Siege and the blue/black dragon however, again give us potential hints. I could easily see a sort of 'pingy' theme steadily weakening an opponent, which both blue and black dabble in with different ways. The trick would be finding a way in which they could match, and the strategy would work well with older sultai delve stuff. Perhaps something that you can activate whenever a card enters your graveyard? Or maybe something that lets you mill yourself to deal a small amount of direct damage to an opponent? Or maybe something that both penalizes the power of opponent creatures and deals direct damage to them in a small amount and is triggered by something related to the graveyard?
Whatever it is, I kinda hope it synergizes better with delve (or at least Sultai in general) than delve does with itself.
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Temur is dropping blue, interestingly, this appears to mean the loss of the 'giant monsters' theme, as such a strategy isn't usually very red in nature, other than dragons themselves, as Kiora shows that blue has a sort of giant-sea-monsters thing going for it towards higher cmcs, especially when paired with green.
Frontier siege uses the fight mechanic in it's dragon mode, while the dragon gets double strike when attacking. The first of which is somewhat shared, the second of which is primarily red/white, not green at all, so can't be interpreted too directly related to the dstrike. Red and green are also noted for sharing trample.
We also want something that plays well with ferocious and older Temur stuff, so something friendly with big creatures.
I'm not really sure what kind of thing could fit well here. Hmm... maybe a mana related thing, since red has rituals and green has land ramp and mana dorks, and relate that thing to dealing damage? Perhaps a mechanic that causes damage you deal to be saved up as 'energy' counters that can be spent to gain mana?
UB: something to do with sacrifice/creatures dying. Maybe something where you can sacrifice a creature for a kicker effect or to make the spell cheaper. Possibly named exploit. Tom LaPille said that sultai emissary "is a nice card. [Louie Mechanic] will love it." Other cards that support this theory-Jeskai Sage, Marang river prowler, quarsi high priest, merciless executioner,noxious dragon.
Uw: auras matter. would play well with theros. Cards that support this theory: Cloudform, lightform, lotus eye mystics, sage's reverie, jeskai infiltrator(good for stacking auras onto), shu yun
Rg: saboteurs. cards that support this theory: Atarka(double strike would double saboteur triggers), break through the line, goblin heelcutter, shaman of the great hunt,temur battle rage, rage form, temur runemark, shockmaw
UB might have something to do with sacrifice or dying to boost a spell, but that really just feels mono-B since U doesn't really do that kind of thing. Perhaps if it was something along the lines of 'sac a creature, target player mills x'. That way it could be used to fuel delve or to mill out an opponent and feels a bit more UB rather than just B. Dredge would be really cool and would work really well here, but I don't think it'll happen. Partially because of the power level, but also because sultai already got an 'old' mechanic in delve, so I think the odds of them getting another mechanic that's already been used before is pretty slim. It also doesn't make as much sense if sultai loses green.
UW being auras matter is... meh. Maybe. Cloudform and lightform also had rageform, so it seemed like that cycle was in there more for prowess than the new mechanic (which probably won't have any red). Not to mention blue doesn't really use auras too much more often than any of the other colors, and when it does they're more often negative things like encrust. Plus, blue and white's biggest similarity is their ability to stall with non-creature spells. I just feel like it only being about auras would be a bit too narrow and focus a little too heavily on creatures. Whether it's about enchantments or not, I feel like it will be a mechanic that's put on more non-creature cards rather than on the creatures themselves so it'll play nice with prowess without competing too much for the same space.
RG saboteurs doesn't actually make sense to me. Blue gets saboteurs a lot so Temur getting saboteurs after dropping blue seems weird, and while it doesn't play badly with ferocious it doesn't really synergize with it at all, either. The only thing that really does synergize with ferocious is big creatures. Red and green both have mana production, (albeit red's is temporary) which would also enable you to play big ferocious enabling creatures early, so something to do with that could work. Both colors also play a lot of creatures and get a lot of temporary growth effects. Something along the lines of 'when a creature enters the battlefield under your control ~ gets +1/+1 until eot' would make sense and play well with ferocious. Sort of an inverse of prowess, which actually kind of makes sense to me. Perhaps making it +1/+0 or even +n/+0 so you could give it a variable number and make it a bit less similar to prowess. Would probably have to change it to 'cast a creature' spell as to not be busted with token generators. Also probably limit it to triggering once per turn if you made the number variable.
Yeah, an inverse of prowess would be kind of cool for G/GR.. creature spells instead of non-creature spells, affects the group instead of the individual. Something like: Strengthen - whenever you cast a creatue spell, all other creatures you control get +1/+1 until end of turn. (or perhaps a +1/+0 Enrage effect for all your creatures, if +1/+1 is too strong)
Blue would get it on non-creatures, black would get it on creatures. Not so keen on the mill thing just because ub has been doing that forever and nearly everyone is sick of it. The sac mechanic is more black than blue but that is because sultai is black centered. Same reason dash is more red that black.
I wasn't terribly interested in another aura's matter thing either but that is what lept out at me from the cards i saw. Jeskai has gotten several enchantment/voltron cards in fate reforged that seem to lead away from the instant and sorcery matters theme it had in khans. In a small set I think cards like sage's reverie would not be worth their space if they didn't synergize with a later mechanic. That said an instant/sorcery mechanic would be nice. maybe something like flashcast (you may cast ~ for its flashcast cost, if you do you may cast it anytime you could play an instant). Would go on sorceries and some enchantments.
Or a permanent boost. Something like Energize (whenever a creature ETB, you may pay (R/G), if you do put a +1/+1 counter on it). I had not thought of it but it would go much better with the double strike and trample cards that i thought were evidence of sabateurs.
Fair enough, dash isn't particularly black, so sultai or UB getting a mechanic that feels much more black than blue wouldn't be too out of place in that context.
I saw sage's reverie as more of a throwback to heroic and bestow from Theros than a forecast of things to come. They do print cards that synergize with future mechanics, but they also print ones that synergize with the previous block's mechanics for the sake of standard.
I had thought of a more permanent boost like that, and while it would fit, I don't think it'll happen. Mostly because having two different +1/+1 counter mechanics on different factions in the same set would be a bit too much, and there's no other easy way to keep track of a permanent boost on a creature.
Something akin to the Slith mechanic would work for Atarka, but as already mentioned a second +1/+1 counter mechanic in the same set might feel redundant.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
so we only will get 3 more (jeskai, temur, and sultai) for the clan
and 1 new mechanic for morph related
Yeah, this post started before Dash was reveled