xxxxUUU is way too cheap. In the circumstances where Cruise is an AR (which come up reasonably frequently) that would be an instant speed Time Stretch for 3-4 mana. Even worse, it would encourage people to just run a bunch of Hedron Crabs and Glimpses in order to take 5+ extra turns for 3 mana (which is essentially an auto win, especially since you can play one Mystic Retrieval and just chain them).
xxxxxUUU is almost certainly too good as well, because it still lets you get an instant speed Time Stretch too easily. Testing might reveal that xxxxxxUUU was fine though.
Never said anything about instant speed. There are next to no instant speed extra turn effects, so that is a whole new ballgame. I think you are over estimating delve a bit as well. Also things like Savor the Moment already exist and see fringe play at best. Heck even Boomerang is a time walk minus the draw and land drop when you target a land on turn 2. Either way the cost on all of these cards would make the template look like a nightmare
Modern: UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy: UWBMiracles
Edh: UUUThassa Control WWWHokori Stax GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy BBBGriselbrand French List RBGShattergang(Super Villians) RWGHazezon Flicker UBRMarchesa Aggro URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
I was commenting on the card first proposed (humorously) by vorthospike, which was instant speed. I agree it can be cheaper as a sorcery, maybe xxxxxUUU.
Costing x extra turn effects is a ridiculous endeavor, made even more so by the presence of a cost reduction mechanic. The only reason I'm even bothering to think about it is the hilarity of actually needing to put a quintuple x cost on a magic card.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I primarily play limited, so most of my spoiler season comments view cards through that lens.
Modern: UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy: UWBMiracles
Edh: UUUThassa Control WWWHokori Stax GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy BBBGriselbrand French List RBGShattergang(Super Villians) RWGHazezon Flicker UBRMarchesa Aggro URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
Oh boy, think about the EDH possibilities.. Turn 5 Traumatize myself, turn 6 delve away 42 cards and take 6 extra turns for 1 blue mana (and playing a 5 drop in the same turn)
I'm interested to know whether there is even gonna be more delve cards..
They have stated that morph is important to the block, so it is most likely there for all three sets. I highly doubt that they would bring some clan-mechanics forward without bringing all of them (E.g. comments on how they did not want to return any of the mechanics from Ravnica block in RTR-block; because some guild(s) would be "cheated" of a new mechanic".
Presumably, they will want at leasst a couple of new mechanics for FRF, which could make for a very crowded set if all six mechanics from KTK are brought forward.
I guess they could put the main focus on the new mechanics and morph, and then throw in a couple of cards with each clan mechanic, but there is the additional concern that FRF will need to work well with DTK. So will a few odd cards with delve, prowess, raid etc. make sense in FRF-DTK-draft? Are we thinking that the clan-mechanics last all the way through the block, so that all three sets will have the clan-mechanics+morph, and then FRF and DTK will each have a couple of unique mechanics?
If they want a small amount of clan-mechanic cards in FRF while still sort of retiring the mechanics for FRF-DTK, putting 1-2 cards of each mechanic at rare only could be a way.
Do we have any information or hints about the clan-mechanics going forward?
People seem to forget the extra turn can come with a downside. Something like Final Fortune or Savor the Moment could be interesting with Delve.
Time Loop 4UUU
Sorcery - Mythic
Delve
Take an extra turn after this one, then each opponent copies Time Loop. [poorly worded I know]
I know what you're trying to go for here, but this card would actually do nothing.
You cast it on your turn
Your Opp gets a copy on the stack, it resolves
Your copy resolves.
Your opp gets a turn after yours(Extra), then you get a turn after that one(Extra), then it goes back to your opp for the normal turn progression.
On topic: Given the "cheap" versions they've already given us, the Miracles time walk has already been brought up, something like 9UU with Delve, take an extra turn, would totally be plausible. An extra turn in a blue deck is rarely more than Explore.
Delve on a Black Lotus?... that would be useless...
Are you serious? Effectively replace three mana in the cost of any spell (or spells) with exile 5 (or 6, or 7, or whatever) dead cards from the graveyard? It would be far from useless even if you had to sacrifice it immediately, and of course you don't! You can spend excess mana and delve excess cards one turn to ramp into something larger on a following turn if that's going to be better for you.
Black Lotus already costs 0. Delve would be pointless.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"[Lotleth Troll] is stupidly broken and will break Standard more so than Snapcaster Mage did last format." - ArchAvalon
Delve on a Black Lotus?... that would be useless...
Are you serious? Effectively replace three mana in the cost of any spell (or spells) with exile 5 (or 6, or 7, or whatever) dead cards from the graveyard? It would be far from useless even if you had to sacrifice it immediately, and of course you don't! You can spend excess mana and delve excess cards one turn to ramp into something larger on a following turn if that's going to be better for you.
Black Lotus already costs 0. Delve would be pointless.
And ancestrall already costs U, delve would be useless. But the post the lotus-comment was most probably referring to was the one about how it would be cool to have delve on all of P9 since we already have an ancestrall version. Which in turn implies that the delving lotus wouldn't cost 0 but rather a bit more... Which in turn would make delve a pretty awesome addition to said card.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote me for replies.
Did I write something useful? Leave a like.
Any new cool Daretti cards printed in the latest set? Tell me about it!
Rules Advisor
And ancestrall already costs U, delve would be useless. But the post the lotus-comment was most probably referring to was the one about how it would be cool to have delve on all of P9 since we already have an ancestrall version. Which in turn implies that the delving lotus wouldn't cost 0 but rather a bit more... Which in turn would make delve a pretty awesome addition to said card.
Hmm, if we look at Gilded Lotus, then I could see a card like:
Delve Lotus
Delve
, Sacrifice Delve Lotus: Add 3 mana of any one color to your mana pool.
It would be a really cool Johnny card, and like all the best of those it's actually fairly hard to really break. It ramps you pretty hard on or around turn 4, but its actually pretty hard to abuse in the current Standard environment. Just delving the five cards is going to be more valuable than 3 colored mana in the current format, especially due to the massive number of wedge costs in KTK making the "of any one color" clause extremely limiting.
Modern, on the other hand, could get a real shake up from something like that, though probably not immediately. It doesn't really powerup any deck already in that format, baring maybe of of those Tier 2 ramp decks running around (big maybe since it doesn't solve any of those deck's inherent problems), but it would always be there, waiting for some interaction to get printed that breaks it in half.
Delve on a Black Lotus?... that would be useless...
Are you serious? Effectively replace three mana in the cost of any spell (or spells) with exile 5 (or 6, or 7, or whatever) dead cards from the graveyard? It would be far from useless even if you had to sacrifice it immediately, and of course you don't! You can spend excess mana and delve excess cards one turn to ramp into something larger on a following turn if that's going to be better for you.
Black Lotus already costs 0. Delve would be pointless.
This is a strange interpretation to take when you also talked about an "aggressively costed" Delve Time Walk. Time Walk is already aggressively costed, so by your logic this thread must be referring to a spell that costs 1U and has delve, which is almost pointless but assuredly broken. By delve Lotus we mean what you are clearly capable of understanding in the context of any other card, a card with a converted mana cost higher than 0 but which can be sacrificed for mana just like a Black Lotus.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
And ancestrall already costs U, delve would be useless. But the post the lotus-comment was most probably referring to was the one about how it would be cool to have delve on all of P9 since we already have an ancestrall version. Which in turn implies that the delving lotus wouldn't cost 0 but rather a bit more... Which in turn would make delve a pretty awesome addition to said card.
Hmm, if we look at Gilded Lotus, then I could see a card like:
Delve Lotus
Delve
, Sacrifice Delve Lotus: Add 3 mana of any one color to your mana pool.
It would be a really cool Johnny card, and like all the best of those it's actually fairly hard to really break. It ramps you pretty hard on or around turn 4, but its actually pretty hard to abuse in the current Standard environment. Just delving the five cards is going to be more valuable than 3 colored mana in the current format, especially due to the massive number of wedge costs in KTK making the "of any one color" clause extremely limiting.
Modern, on the other hand, could get a real shake up from something like that, though probably not immediately. It doesn't really powerup any deck already in that format, baring maybe of of those Tier 2 ramp decks running around (big maybe since it doesn't solve any of those deck's inherent problems), but it would always be there, waiting for some interaction to get printed that breaks it in half.
Would go in some combo build. No thanks. I thought it was established that fast mana is just broken.
Well, if you think Treasure Cruise is broken but acceptable power level for legacy, then a time walk with delve wouldn't be too oppressive for similar mana. Ancestral recall is usually better than time walk. Simply because sometimes, extra turns are lackluster, whereas drawing 3 cards is almost always consistently good.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Never said anything about instant speed. There are next to no instant speed extra turn effects, so that is a whole new ballgame. I think you are over estimating delve a bit as well. Also things like Savor the Moment already exist and see fringe play at best. Heck even Boomerang is a time walk minus the draw and land drop when you target a land on turn 2. Either way the cost on all of these cards would make the template look like a nightmare
Draft it Here!
UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy:
UWBMiracles
Edh:
UUUThassa Control
WWWHokori Stax
GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy
BBBGriselbrand French List
RBGShattergang(Super Villians)
RWGHazezon Flicker
UBRMarchesa Aggro
URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
Costing x extra turn effects is a ridiculous endeavor, made even more so by the presence of a cost reduction mechanic. The only reason I'm even bothering to think about it is the hilarity of actually needing to put a quintuple x cost on a magic card.
Interested in Custom Card Creation.
My Cube:Cardinal Custom Cube
A custom version of a third modern masters: MM2019
(filter->rarity to see in set rarity).
Edit: Give or take an X
Draft it Here!
UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy:
UWBMiracles
Edh:
UUUThassa Control
WWWHokori Stax
GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy
BBBGriselbrand French List
RBGShattergang(Super Villians)
RWGHazezon Flicker
UBRMarchesa Aggro
URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
Like:
Take an extra turn after this one. Skip your next turn after that extra turn.
And cost it something like 6UU
They have stated that morph is important to the block, so it is most likely there for all three sets. I highly doubt that they would bring some clan-mechanics forward without bringing all of them (E.g. comments on how they did not want to return any of the mechanics from Ravnica block in RTR-block; because some guild(s) would be "cheated" of a new mechanic".
Presumably, they will want at leasst a couple of new mechanics for FRF, which could make for a very crowded set if all six mechanics from KTK are brought forward.
I guess they could put the main focus on the new mechanics and morph, and then throw in a couple of cards with each clan mechanic, but there is the additional concern that FRF will need to work well with DTK. So will a few odd cards with delve, prowess, raid etc. make sense in FRF-DTK-draft? Are we thinking that the clan-mechanics last all the way through the block, so that all three sets will have the clan-mechanics+morph, and then FRF and DTK will each have a couple of unique mechanics?
If they want a small amount of clan-mechanic cards in FRF while still sort of retiring the mechanics for FRF-DTK, putting 1-2 cards of each mechanic at rare only could be a way.
Do we have any information or hints about the clan-mechanics going forward?
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
U Tron
GW Bogles
RG Loam
UR Blue Breach
RBU Grixis Goryo
BRU Grixis Delver
GBR Jund
GBW Junk
Active Legacy Decks
BR Reanimator
Time Loop 4UUU
Sorcery - Mythic
Delve
Take an extra turn after this one, then each opponent copies Time Loop. [poorly worded I know]
I know what you're trying to go for here, but this card would actually do nothing.
You cast it on your turn
Your Opp gets a copy on the stack, it resolves
Your copy resolves.
Your opp gets a turn after yours(Extra), then you get a turn after that one(Extra), then it goes back to your opp for the normal turn progression.
On topic: Given the "cheap" versions they've already given us, the Miracles time walk has already been brought up, something like 9UU with Delve, take an extra turn, would totally be plausible. An extra turn in a blue deck is rarely more than Explore.
Black Lotus already costs 0. Delve would be pointless.
And ancestrall already costs U, delve would be useless. But the post the lotus-comment was most probably referring to was the one about how it would be cool to have delve on all of P9 since we already have an ancestrall version. Which in turn implies that the delving lotus wouldn't cost 0 but rather a bit more... Which in turn would make delve a pretty awesome addition to said card.
Did I write something useful? Leave a like.
Any new cool Daretti cards printed in the latest set? Tell me about it!
Rules Advisor
Hmm, if we look at Gilded Lotus, then I could see a card like:
Delve Lotus
Delve
, Sacrifice Delve Lotus: Add 3 mana of any one color to your mana pool.
It would be a really cool Johnny card, and like all the best of those it's actually fairly hard to really break. It ramps you pretty hard on or around turn 4, but its actually pretty hard to abuse in the current Standard environment. Just delving the five cards is going to be more valuable than 3 colored mana in the current format, especially due to the massive number of wedge costs in KTK making the "of any one color" clause extremely limiting.
Modern, on the other hand, could get a real shake up from something like that, though probably not immediately. It doesn't really powerup any deck already in that format, baring maybe of of those Tier 2 ramp decks running around (big maybe since it doesn't solve any of those deck's inherent problems), but it would always be there, waiting for some interaction to get printed that breaks it in half.
This is a strange interpretation to take when you also talked about an "aggressively costed" Delve Time Walk. Time Walk is already aggressively costed, so by your logic this thread must be referring to a spell that costs 1U and has delve, which is almost pointless but assuredly broken. By delve Lotus we mean what you are clearly capable of understanding in the context of any other card, a card with a converted mana cost higher than 0 but which can be sacrificed for mana just like a Black Lotus.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Would go in some combo build. No thanks. I thought it was established that fast mana is just broken.