For the people who really want "your creatures have Morph" to be a thing, I think most of the problems would be solves by making it a Conspiracy. Then it stays true during the whole game and there's no question of "when did you cast this exactly?".
subbak
Or an emblem!
...wha? That sounds like it could be an Ugin ability! Giving all your creatures Morph doesn't really sound like an Ultimate to me. I mean, I dunno, I haven't really used Morph all that much, maybe I'm wrong!
Well, since Morph in Tarkir has a "Dragon-y" flavor to it, and since Morph creatures are colorless, I assume Morph magic in Tarkir was from Ugin. So giving him some Morph emblem effect would fit...
I know MaRo has stated that Morph is going to change over the course of the whole block and stuff and become more varied....I'm starting to think Ugin will actually have morph in him. Obviously they can fit four abilities on a walker, so they could have a little "Morph 6, when Ugin unmorphs, put 5 loyalty counters on him" deal like the commander planeswalkers have for saying they can be commanders. IDK. As for abilities....I'll think on that.
Ugin, Spirit Dragon8
Planeswalker - Ugin
+2: Add to your mana pool.
-3: Search your library for a colorless card, reveal it, and put it into your hand. Then shuffle your library.
-X: Exile all other nonland permanents with converted mana cost X.
6
The first ability is designed to play with Morph, though it also works well with any spell or ability that can be paid for with three mana. The second ability is both a compromise - I didn't want to include damage-dealing directly on the card so I made it possible to fetch Ghostfire instead - and a tie-in with other colorless Ugin-related cards like Eye of Ugin, Perilous Vault, and Ghostfire Blade. It just so happens that Ugin can also fetch other artifacts and lands as well as colorless Eldrazi, Karn Liberated, and even another copy of himself, which has a pretty neat flavor when you consider he's trying to save his own life in KTK and FRF. I considered making it cost -X to tutor a card with the same CMC but I realized that would allow free land tutoring every turn which would get annoying real fast thanks to excess shuffling, so I settled for a fixed cost that can find any colorless card in your library, fair enough at 8 mana.
The third ability is of course based on Ugin's ability to seal the Eldrazi, and since the tutor ability wouldn't get an X cost I figured the ultimate could. The ability is worded so Ugin doesn't exile himself if you pay 8 loyalty even though he goes to zero if you fire it off at the earliest possible time. What I really like about this ability is Ugin could potentially defeat Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker this way but Bolas always gets a chance to destroy Ugin first, reflecting how he defeated Ugin in the story.
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
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You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Colorless, time-travel and exiling problematic stuff? Sounds an awful lot like Karn Liberated.
I think it's kinda weird to get two powerful colorless protagonists both obsessed with defeating an ancient overpowering evil.
Ugin will only overlap Karn's power suite if Creative specifically wants colorless exilers as the defeaters of the Eldrazi/Phyrexians. It won't be a coincidence.
That said, from what little we know of Ugin, he has demonstrated:
- Ghostfire (invisible magic)
- Morph/binding magic
- Eternal-essence (not time travel, rather, his spirit lingers right?)
I am certain that Ugin shall have an ability the replicates the effect of ghostfire, since that is practically his signature spell, and I also imagine that he shall have an ability the is reminiscent of oblivion ring, representing his role in the imprisoning of the Eldrazi. I am not certain about his thrid ability, but I would not be surprised if it involved generating colorless mana or somehow considered colorless permanents important.
I also shall say that there shall never be a planeswalker with a +X ability, because such an ability could be used (or abused) to place any number of loyalty counters on the planeswalker, unless there is a clause that limits the number of counters that may be placed on the card, such as a loss of life or payment of mana.
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...wha? That sounds like it could be an Ugin ability! Giving all your creatures Morph doesn't really sound like an Ultimate to me. I mean, I dunno, I haven't really used Morph all that much, maybe I'm wrong!
Well, since Morph in Tarkir has a "Dragon-y" flavor to it, and since Morph creatures are colorless, I assume Morph magic in Tarkir was from Ugin. So giving him some Morph emblem effect would fit...
If the emblem gave all creatures morph with morph cost for 3, that could be pretty epic. While I like the idea of an emblem with a Celestial Dawn for colorless type effect too, a "morph emblem" would essentially let you spend colorless mana for creatures.
I personally think there is absolutely no way he 'turns face-down' creatures: It is way too weird and problematic with rules. He could 'Exile target creature, its controller puts a 2/2 in play.' but I really doubt it.
It's not that problematic rule-wise and besides Ixidron already exists. However turning permanents face down as opposed to creatures might be slightly confusing.
Ugin
+?:Turn target nontoken creature face down
-?: Ghostfire
Zoetic Cavern shows that more than creatures can be face down.
+X doesn't work on planeswalkers, as the cost is 'paid' before any effects resolve. This means you could +1000 him, then the ability would be countered for an illegal target, but that doesn't really matter then.
No +X effects work fine as long as they don't allow you to pick an arbitrary value for X.
If that was the case we could almost asume Ugin will have Morph, which makes sense, because if I remeber correctly Morph was something like "the Dragon's magical technique to hide..." Colorless creatures, and Ugin is the colorless dragon. It would make sense that he is capable of using his own morph technique. Right?
Morph is flavored vaguely as "draconic magic" that the clans use. I would assume Ugin taught them since they have no other obvious source of knowledge about dragon magic.
Ugin, Spirit Dragon (7)
+1 until next turn you may cast any spell or activate any activated ability using colorless mana instead spells cast this way are considered colorless.
-2 deal 3 damage to target creature or player
-7 you get an emblem with "At the end of each turn if this was not an extra turn take an extra turn after this one"
Loyalty:4
This is exactly what I was thinking. Well, damn close. I think ghostfire mode will be a -3.
After reading the rest of the thread, I can entertain the possibility of him having morph as well.
I am usually posting from my phone. I will usually be brief and there may be typos.
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So Mogis is in the middle of a guitar solo, and then Phenax jumps in with
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Maybe Ugin sealed his spirit in some other vessel (Sarkhan?) using morph magic, and now Sorin can help him "morph" into his true self again. (Kind of like how Fitz survived in Nighteyes in the Fool's trilogy for those who read it).
Could make a good story. And a cool planeswalker card: turns himself face down when at 0 loyalty instead of dying so you unmorph it again for it's casting cost.
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And a cool planeswalker card: turns himself face down when at 0 loyalty instead of dying so you unmorph it again for it's casting cost.
That would be cool, but I think that would take up to much space on the card. It'd be two effects, one to turn down, and another line for morph by itself.
From what we have learned storywise about Ugin, He is an ethereal, colorless magic wielding, dragon planeswalker who developed a mana leyline system to help imprison the Eldrazi and when Bolas murdered him on Tarkir all of the dragons disappeared. Since all dragons dissapeared I believe Ugin has ties to all colors of Magic. The Eye of Ugin also lends itself to a synergy with colorless cards.
This leads me to believe that he will have a ghostfire-like ability along with a dragon creation ability. My thoughts lead me to something like this:
Ugin, The Ethereal - WUBRG Ugin the Ethereal is colorless
+2 Ugin, the Ethereal deals 3 damage to target creature or player.
-4 Search your library for a colorlesss card and palce it into your hand.
-12 Put 4 5/5 colorless dragon creature tokens onto the battlefield
(6)
This encompasses everything we know of him so far and still allows him to be unique. a "five-color, colorless" planeswalker would help him stand out from Karn.
That ultimate is a real letdown. Also, his second +1 is maybe a bit strong? And I don't think Jeskai is his colors. Temur is the good colors for Morph in Khans, and Ugin is colorless period. Maybe costed like Karn?
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Standard: 5-color Eldrazi
Modern: Delver
Legacy: OmniTell
Commander: Too many
Everywhere it works: Storm.
But I can see Ugin being an 8cmc walker like Bolas was. Ghostfire is apt, but not as a - ability. It'd be too similar to Ral Zarak.
Ugin, Spirit Dragon8
Planeswalker - Ugin
+2: ~ deals 3 damage to target creature or player.
-3: Add 6 to your mana pool. Spend this mana only to cast colorless spells.
-12: Search your library for any number of colorless permanent cards and put them onto the battlefield. Shuffle your library.
[7]
Ugin 10 Mana
Delve
+2: Target permanent becomes face-down as a 2/2 creature.
0: Until end of turn you may spend mana as though it were mana of any color.
-1: Return target creature to its owner's hand. Its controller draws a card.
-8: Deal 3 damage to target creature or player. Until end of turn you may pay X mana, if you do add X loyalty counters to Ugin.
Loyalty 5
I know this is the Ugin planeswalker thread but I had a cool one for Bolas that fits his flavor as a manipulator:
Nicol Bolas, Mindslaver 1UBBR
Planeswalker - Bolas
+1:Tap target permanent. It doesn't untap during its controller's next untap step. If its a creature its activated abilities can't be activated. (represents him controlling someone and turning them mindless).
-3:Until your next turn, creatures your opponents control enter the battlefield tapped. At the beginning of the next upkeep, tap all creatures your opponents control. (represents everyone bowing down to him sort of like a combination of one of the modes on Cryptic command, and blind obedience).
-4:Gain control of target tapped creature. Untap that creature. It gains haste. (represents him gaining a follower like Sarkhan. Its like a combination of Royal assassin or Asphyxiate and control magic it is a somewhat conditional ability which tends to weaken it by quite a bit but his other abilities help him meet those conditions).
-9:Gain control of up to 7 permanents. Untap those permanents. They gain haste. (very simple design to it but still a very powerful effect. Represents his taking over things again, 7 because of the CMC of cruel ultimatum the last 2 abilities have haste to represent the red of bolas a little more.)
Not sure if anyone pointed that out, but I just noticed that on the art of Crux of Fate, there seems to be a smokey morph fireball thing below Ugin, as if he just came out of a morph, or Nicol Bolas pulled him out of it.
Would be cool to have a morphing planeswalker, but it's likely gonna take up too much lines on a card unless they change the templating.
The final is the only one I'm not super sure about in terms of flavor. I would prefer that the -7 did make Ugin turn face-down, but I can't think of anything appropriate. I want it to be something that involves pacifying or disabling powerful creatures and planeswalkers and allowing Ugin to go back into his colorless 2/2 form.
As it stands now, he's a Chain Veil, Teferi, Ghostfire, and mega-Ixidron, and 2/2 for 3 all for the low low price of ... well, 8 or 3 or 5 mana depending which cost you're looking at. Also, if you play him right, he sorta becomes a mean fireball. For example, at 10 mana, if he is face-up, you can use ghostfire, morph him, ghostfire again, morph him, then ghostfire a third time. That's 9 damage and 10 mana. Or, if you just have 5 mana spare and he is face up, you can do 6 damage for 5 mana. I'm torn on whether he is too powerful or not, but the fact that he spends most of his time as a 2/2 (although with the ability to change permanent type to dodge some removal) means that he is fragile and can be killed effectively (which is also consistent with his story, as he was killed).
The final is the only one I'm not super sure about in terms of flavor. I would prefer that the -7 did make Ugin turn face-down, but I can't think of anything appropriate. I want it to be something that involves pacifying or disabling powerful creatures and planeswalkers and allowing Ugin to go back into his colorless 2/2 form.
As it stands now, he's a Chain Veil, Teferi, Ghostfire, and All is Dust, and 2/2 for 3 all for the low low price of ... well, 8 or 3 or 5 mana depending which cost you're looking at. Also, if you play him right, he sorta becomes a mean fireball. For example, at 10 mana, if he is face-up, you can use ghostfire, morph him, ghostfire again, morph him, then ghostfire a third time. That's 9 damage and 10 mana. Or, if you just have 5 mana spare and he is face up, you can do 6 damage for 5 mana. I'm torn on whether he is too powerful or not, but the fact that he spends most of his time as a 2/2 (although with the ability to change permanent type to dodge some removal) means that he is fragile and can be killed effectively (which is also consistent with his story, as he was killed).
I don't know how I feel about a planeswalker being an "answer or lose" type card vs an incremental advantage card. With the ultimate it's a turn too late to beat twin as well which is what I'd really really want that for. But still I think it boils down to Id like something other than bolt as an ability despite Ya know ghost fire. I DO like the idea of him being all - abilities though. It FEELS right and flavorful.
Not sure if anyone pointed that out, but I just noticed that on the art of Crux of Fate, there seems to be a smokey morph fireball thing below Ugin, as if he just came out of a morph, or Nicol Bolas pulled him out of it.
Would be cool to have a morphing planeswalker, but it's likely gonna take up too much lines on a card unless they change the templating.
I can't remember where (probably Rosewater's tumblr) where it was said it would be awfully wordy to do a morph planeswalker. If Ugin actually had morph, I think the response might have been more non-committal or coy. I think it would be cool too, but it sounds like it's not going to happen.
I suppose cool abilities are better than giving him morph for the sake of it.
And it's been pointed out that the only way Ugin could have morph is if his morph cost (or a part of the morph cost) is to put loyalty counters on him. If you put counter after he turns face up he will die before you have a chance to put any on him.
Well, I did more or less give him the ability to use his ghostfire as an instant. Also, using it (or another planeswalkers ability) as an instant is a unique function but also costs 4 colorless mana. I feel like his power level, doubling up other planeswalkers and using loyalty abilities out of turn (he and venser would make really good friends) as well as an instant speed lightning bolt on a stick is pretty heavily offset by him being a creature with 2 toughness most of the time and having a recurring mana cost, which is unprecedented for a planeswalker. His ultimate definitely lets him snip the balls off of anything that might be hard to remove, like artifacts, enchantments, planeswalkers, or nasty indestructible/shroud creatures. He squishes Thrun.
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...wha? That sounds like it could be an Ugin ability! Giving all your creatures Morph doesn't really sound like an Ultimate to me. I mean, I dunno, I haven't really used Morph all that much, maybe I'm wrong!
Well, since Morph in Tarkir has a "Dragon-y" flavor to it, and since Morph creatures are colorless, I assume Morph magic in Tarkir was from Ugin. So giving him some Morph emblem effect would fit...
Planeswalker - Ugin
+2: Add to your mana pool.
-3: Search your library for a colorless card, reveal it, and put it into your hand. Then shuffle your library.
-X: Exile all other nonland permanents with converted mana cost X.
6
The first ability is designed to play with Morph, though it also works well with any spell or ability that can be paid for with three mana. The second ability is both a compromise - I didn't want to include damage-dealing directly on the card so I made it possible to fetch Ghostfire instead - and a tie-in with other colorless Ugin-related cards like Eye of Ugin, Perilous Vault, and Ghostfire Blade. It just so happens that Ugin can also fetch other artifacts and lands as well as colorless Eldrazi, Karn Liberated, and even another copy of himself, which has a pretty neat flavor when you consider he's trying to save his own life in KTK and FRF. I considered making it cost -X to tutor a card with the same CMC but I realized that would allow free land tutoring every turn which would get annoying real fast thanks to excess shuffling, so I settled for a fixed cost that can find any colorless card in your library, fair enough at 8 mana.
The third ability is of course based on Ugin's ability to seal the Eldrazi, and since the tutor ability wouldn't get an X cost I figured the ultimate could. The ability is worded so Ugin doesn't exile himself if you pay 8 loyalty even though he goes to zero if you fire it off at the earliest possible time. What I really like about this ability is Ugin could potentially defeat Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker this way but Bolas always gets a chance to destroy Ugin first, reflecting how he defeated Ugin in the story.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
I think it's kinda weird to get two powerful colorless protagonists both obsessed with defeating an ancient overpowering evil.
Ugin will only overlap Karn's power suite if Creative specifically wants colorless exilers as the defeaters of the Eldrazi/Phyrexians. It won't be a coincidence.
That said, from what little we know of Ugin, he has demonstrated:
- Ghostfire (invisible magic)
- Morph/binding magic
- Eternal-essence (not time travel, rather, his spirit lingers right?)
I also shall say that there shall never be a planeswalker with a +X ability, because such an ability could be used (or abused) to place any number of loyalty counters on the planeswalker, unless there is a clause that limits the number of counters that may be placed on the card, such as a loss of life or payment of mana.
“When the people fear the government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.”-Thomas Jefferson
“A vote is like a rifle; its usefulness depends upon the character of its user.”-Theodore Roosevelt
“Patriotism means to stand by one's country; it does not mean to stand by one's president.”-Theodore Roosevelt
If the emblem gave all creatures morph with morph cost for 3, that could be pretty epic. While I like the idea of an emblem with a Celestial Dawn for colorless type effect too, a "morph emblem" would essentially let you spend colorless mana for creatures.
No +X effects work fine as long as they don't allow you to pick an arbitrary value for X.
Morph is flavored vaguely as "draconic magic" that the clans use. I would assume Ugin taught them since they have no other obvious source of knowledge about dragon magic.
This is exactly what I was thinking. Well, damn close. I think ghostfire mode will be a -3.
After reading the rest of the thread, I can entertain the possibility of him having morph as well.
Decks:
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Nothing yet
Modern
RBWMardu BurnWBR
Legacy
UUUPTSD NoughtUUU
EDH
WUDaxos VoltronUW
UBRJeleva - Oops all your spellsRBU
UBUVela, the Ninja Clad (retired)UBU
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Could make a good story. And a cool planeswalker card: turns himself face down when at 0 loyalty instead of dying so you unmorph it again for it's casting cost.
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
That would be cool, but I think that would take up to much space on the card. It'd be two effects, one to turn down, and another line for morph by itself.
This leads me to believe that he will have a ghostfire-like ability along with a dragon creation ability. My thoughts lead me to something like this:
Ugin, The Ethereal - WUBRG
Ugin the Ethereal is colorless
+2 Ugin, the Ethereal deals 3 damage to target creature or player.
-4 Search your library for a colorlesss card and palce it into your hand.
-12 Put 4 5/5 colorless dragon creature tokens onto the battlefield
(6)
This encompasses everything we know of him so far and still allows him to be unique. a "five-color, colorless" planeswalker would help him stand out from Karn.
Modern: Delver
Legacy: OmniTell
Commander: Too many
Everywhere it works: Storm.
He'd either die on flip up or only have 2 abilities. And 2 abilities is not particularly appropriate for the spirit dragon who rivals Bolas in power.
Generals meant to be drafted first in a single pack of 6 cards.
And here is the actual cube, meant to be drafted in 4 regular sized packs. (60 card decks)
But I can see Ugin being an 8cmc walker like Bolas was. Ghostfire is apt, but not as a - ability. It'd be too similar to Ral Zarak.
Ugin, Spirit Dragon 8
Planeswalker - Ugin
+2: ~ deals 3 damage to target creature or player.
-3: Add 6 to your mana pool. Spend this mana only to cast colorless spells.
-12: Search your library for any number of colorless permanent cards and put them onto the battlefield. Shuffle your library.
[7]
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
+1 Ghostfire
-3 All Is Dust
-7 Search for any number of Dragons and put them into play
4
Delve
+2: Target permanent becomes face-down as a 2/2 creature.
0: Until end of turn you may spend mana as though it were mana of any color.
-1: Return target creature to its owner's hand. Its controller draws a card.
-8: Deal 3 damage to target creature or player. Until end of turn you may pay X mana, if you do add X loyalty counters to Ugin.
Loyalty 5
Nicol Bolas, Mindslaver 1UBBR
Planeswalker - Bolas
+1: Tap target permanent. It doesn't untap during its controller's next untap step. If its a creature its activated abilities can't be activated. (represents him controlling someone and turning them mindless).
-3: Until your next turn, creatures your opponents control enter the battlefield tapped. At the beginning of the next upkeep, tap all creatures your opponents control. (represents everyone bowing down to him sort of like a combination of one of the modes on Cryptic command, and blind obedience).
-4: Gain control of target tapped creature. Untap that creature. It gains haste. (represents him gaining a follower like Sarkhan. Its like a combination of Royal assassin or Asphyxiate and control magic it is a somewhat conditional ability which tends to weaken it by quite a bit but his other abilities help him meet those conditions).
-9: Gain control of up to 7 permanents. Untap those permanents. They gain haste. (very simple design to it but still a very powerful effect. Represents his taking over things again, 7 because of the CMC of cruel ultimatum the last 2 abilities have haste to represent the red of bolas a little more.)
Loyalty: {5}
Would be cool to have a morphing planeswalker, but it's likely gonna take up too much lines on a card unless they change the templating.
This is how I hope he'll work.
The final is the only one I'm not super sure about in terms of flavor. I would prefer that the -7 did make Ugin turn face-down, but I can't think of anything appropriate. I want it to be something that involves pacifying or disabling powerful creatures and planeswalkers and allowing Ugin to go back into his colorless 2/2 form.
As it stands now, he's a Chain Veil, Teferi, Ghostfire, and mega-Ixidron, and 2/2 for 3 all for the low low price of ... well, 8 or 3 or 5 mana depending which cost you're looking at. Also, if you play him right, he sorta becomes a mean fireball. For example, at 10 mana, if he is face-up, you can use ghostfire, morph him, ghostfire again, morph him, then ghostfire a third time. That's 9 damage and 10 mana. Or, if you just have 5 mana spare and he is face up, you can do 6 damage for 5 mana. I'm torn on whether he is too powerful or not, but the fact that he spends most of his time as a 2/2 (although with the ability to change permanent type to dodge some removal) means that he is fragile and can be killed effectively (which is also consistent with his story, as he was killed).
I don't know how I feel about a planeswalker being an "answer or lose" type card vs an incremental advantage card. With the ultimate it's a turn too late to beat twin as well which is what I'd really really want that for. But still I think it boils down to Id like something other than bolt as an ability despite Ya know ghost fire. I DO like the idea of him being all - abilities though. It FEELS right and flavorful.
I can't remember where (probably Rosewater's tumblr) where it was said it would be awfully wordy to do a morph planeswalker. If Ugin actually had morph, I think the response might have been more non-committal or coy. I think it would be cool too, but it sounds like it's not going to happen.
I suppose cool abilities are better than giving him morph for the sake of it.
And it's been pointed out that the only way Ugin could have morph is if his morph cost (or a part of the morph cost) is to put loyalty counters on him. If you put counter after he turns face up he will die before you have a chance to put any on him.