From Release notes- If enough -1/-1 counters are put on Chasm Skulker at the same time to make its toughness 0 or less, the number of +1/+1 counters on it before it got any -1/-1 counters will be used to determine how many Squid tokens you get. For example, if there are two +1/+1 counters on Chasm Skulker and it gets three -1/-1 counters, you'll get two Squid tokens
More like they wanted to clarify the workings of an outside designed card. In the past when the plus counters and minus counters were placed on the same creature the counters would just be considered to negate each other and would be forgotten.
This ruling most likely targets modern and this individual card.
Doubtful. R&D do not like including both types of counters in the same standard to avoid the confusion that can happen with them. Tabak bringing up that rule is more than likely for the fact that this will see play outside of standard constructed.
I'm pretty sure they only don't do both +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters in the same block, not in standard. Otherwise they'd have to go an entire block and core set without any counters to switch from +1/+1 to -1/-1, and then another block and core set to switch back. Plus New Phyrexia had -1/-1 counters and Innistrad had +1/+1 counters.
But anyway, take this for what you will, in a blogatog post from January, Maro said "I’ll say this, right now (and things can change) there is at least one block in the seven year plan with -1/-1 counters."
The "and things can change" part makes it sound like he's not referring to a block that will be released within the next year, but that could also be him just being vague and mysterious.
In the past when the plus counters and minus counters were placed on the same creature the counters would just be considered to negate each other and would be forgotten.
That's still the case, it's just clarifying the timing. Chasm Skulker dies for having 0 toughness before the counters negate. If you put the counters on one at a time (say, with Gnarled Effigy) then you can kill it and no squids will pop off.
I don't think we can infer anything about Tarkir from this. It's clarifying a particular interaction that is quite possible in any format that includes -1/-1 counters. This does not imply that the next Standard is going to be one of those formats. Wither, Infect, Black Sun's Zenith and plenty of other ways to put multiple -1/-1 counters on at once already exist, so they explain how those interact with this card.
In the past when the plus counters and minus counters were placed on the same creature the counters would just be considered to negate each other and would be forgotten.
That's still the case, it's just clarifying the timing. Chasm Skulker dies for having 0 toughness before the counters negate. If you put the counters on one at a time (say, with Gnarled Effigy) then you can kill it and no squids will pop off.
I do not think this is right.
When something has 2 +1/+1 counters and then gains 2 -1/-1 counters, then we'll mentally shortcut it and think we're back to zero, and 99.9% of the time thats fine, but if counters actually matter than that creature still has all 4 counters on it, 2 plus and 2 minus. If you get a squid for every plus counter when it dies, then there will be 2 squids even though there were 2 minus counters on it.
Also, I do agree that this potentially points to -1/-1 counters. Maro has been vague before saying "someday" about many things that he knew would be revealed imminently in the very next set.
If we are going wide rather than going tall like we've been speculating, I think that also points to -1/-1 counters. Having a couple creatures get them doesn't hurt as much if you have an army of 5 or 6 small tokens.
First things first, please remember that MaRo has long since mastered the art of being vague, honestly I think is a major factor in terms of who wizards hires for the RnD section. And the vagueness of the Word "Someday" in terms of chronology, it can mean anywhere from tomorrow to twenty years from now. What you could argue from how MaRo acted is that minus counters were being discussed for a future set and they have locked it in.
Now the logic of the second part does have something, if we are building wide and not tall then we could argue that +1/+1 counters would be less likely unless they are mass affect ones that target all your creatures.
In the past when the plus counters and minus counters were placed on the same creature the counters would just be considered to negate each other and would be forgotten.
That's still the case, it's just clarifying the timing. Chasm Skulker dies for having 0 toughness before the counters negate. If you put the counters on one at a time (say, with Gnarled Effigy) then you can kill it and no squids will pop off.
I do not think this is right.
When something has 2 +1/+1 counters and then gains 2 -1/-1 counters, then we'll mentally shortcut it and think we're back to zero, and 99.9% of the time thats fine, but if counters actually matter than that creature still has all 4 counters on it, 2 plus and 2 minus. If you get a squid for every plus counter when it dies, then there will be 2 squids even though there were 2 minus counters on it.
No, this is an actual rule. Rule 704.5r to be exact:
Quote from CompRules »
704.5r If a permanent has both a +1/+1 counter and a -1/-1 counter on it, N +1/+1 and N -1/-1 counters are removed from it, where N is the smaller of the number of +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters on it.
This rule is why the release notes specify that the -1/-1 counters must be added at the same time. As I said, if you add them one at a time with players receiving priority (and therefore state-based actions being checked) in between, the counters will be removed.
Doubtful. R&D do not like including both types of counters in the same standard to avoid the confusion that can happen with them. Tabak bringing up that rule is more than likely for the fact that this will see play outside of standard constructed.
Unless if they remove counters completely from a set, it is physically impossible to avoid having both together if -1/-1 counters are brought back. They can't bring back -1/-1 counters without them being in the same Standard as +1/+1 counters. And since it happened before with Shadowmoor and Scars of Mirrodin, I think that it will happen again at some point.
I think this points to -1/-1 counters in Khans.
This ruling most likely targets modern and this individual card.
Probably.
But anyway, take this for what you will, in a blogatog post from January, Maro said "I’ll say this, right now (and things can change) there is at least one block in the seven year plan with -1/-1 counters."
The "and things can change" part makes it sound like he's not referring to a block that will be released within the next year, but that could also be him just being vague and mysterious.
That's still the case, it's just clarifying the timing. Chasm Skulker dies for having 0 toughness before the counters negate. If you put the counters on one at a time (say, with Gnarled Effigy) then you can kill it and no squids will pop off.
I don't think we can infer anything about Tarkir from this. It's clarifying a particular interaction that is quite possible in any format that includes -1/-1 counters. This does not imply that the next Standard is going to be one of those formats. Wither, Infect, Black Sun's Zenith and plenty of other ways to put multiple -1/-1 counters on at once already exist, so they explain how those interact with this card.
I do not think this is right.
When something has 2 +1/+1 counters and then gains 2 -1/-1 counters, then we'll mentally shortcut it and think we're back to zero, and 99.9% of the time thats fine, but if counters actually matter than that creature still has all 4 counters on it, 2 plus and 2 minus. If you get a squid for every plus counter when it dies, then there will be 2 squids even though there were 2 minus counters on it.
If we are going wide rather than going tall like we've been speculating, I think that also points to -1/-1 counters. Having a couple creatures get them doesn't hurt as much if you have an army of 5 or 6 small tokens.
Now the logic of the second part does have something, if we are building wide and not tall then we could argue that +1/+1 counters would be less likely unless they are mass affect ones that target all your creatures.
No, this is an actual rule. Rule 704.5r to be exact:
This rule is why the release notes specify that the -1/-1 counters must be added at the same time. As I said, if you add them one at a time with players receiving priority (and therefore state-based actions being checked) in between, the counters will be removed.
Unless if they remove counters completely from a set, it is physically impossible to avoid having both together if -1/-1 counters are brought back. They can't bring back -1/-1 counters without them being in the same Standard as +1/+1 counters. And since it happened before with Shadowmoor and Scars of Mirrodin, I think that it will happen again at some point.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.