The printed painlands, which have no basic land type...obviously balancing new standard for the return of Fetchlands!
(Seriously though, dwarves would be cool!)
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Disclaimer: As per the norm, I am aware some people will disagree with my opinion and I acknowledge there is a possibility that my opinion is wrong. The above post is simply my musings on what I view to be the most likely scenario given the information that is available and I am aware of at the time of typing! Peace.
-Walls: Nice flavor with building an army; the army attacking into the walls. Possibly like they did in ROE.
-Artifacts: There hasn't been artifact synergy in a core set since M11, which hinted towards scars block, so I don't think this is just for limited purposes. If there is an artifact theme in KTK, it will be a smaller than what wizards did with scars block.
-Graveyard: The new Jace, dissipate and tormod's crypt all point to a graveyard theme.
All these themes have been done before, so there might be something everyone is glancing over.
If walls were to ever matter, then Doran would most assuredly have to be in the fall set.
I think Convoke and the presence of 25+ artifacts are the 2 big things to take from M15.
Usually we have...10-15 artifacts for a core set? If recent core sets have had more, none have felt as important as they feel now. Convoke also didn't come back in RTR block, so they obviously had a plan for it in KTK block. I am curious...and a little excited to see what it will bring.
-Walls: Nice flavor with building an army; the army attacking into the walls. Possibly like they did in ROE.
-Artifacts: There hasn't been artifact synergy in a core set since M11, which hinted towards scars block, so I don't think this is just for limited purposes. If there is an artifact theme in KTK, it will be a smaller than what wizards did with scars block.
-Graveyard: The new Jace, dissipate and tormod's crypt all point to a graveyard theme.
All these themes have been done before, so there might be something everyone is glancing over.
Am I missing anything here?
The obvious one: Convoke, in all five colors (unlike the two color draft strategies you mention) points to massive armies matter.
Convoke naturally synergizes with the Inspired mechanic from the Theros block. Convoke's presence in M15 actually explains why the Inspired set is costed the way it is. It also would naturally work with a "go wide" strategy, but given that it already aids a preexisting mechanic, it wouldn't be the most shocking news ever if doesn't have a big synergy with KTK. I'd say it is more likely than not it does, but it wouldn't be baffling if it didn't.
Seems like most people aren't discussing the core set plants/seeds but the inter-set synergies. If I were to point to a plant card, I'd say Wall of Mulch is really drawing attention to itself (and could potentially see a lot of play 3 months from now). Also, as has been mentioned, the mechanic on Coral Barrier could be a way to put down walls *and* get armies in play. That would also explain the comment on Hushwing Gryff potentially screwing up Huey.
So yeah, walls that summon tokens is a good guess. Fortifications that summon tokens is also a possibility. Hmm, that sounds kinda familiar.
If walls were to ever matter, then Doran would most assuredly have to be in the fall set.
I think Convoke and the presence of 25+ artifacts are the 2 big things to take from M15.
Usually we have...10-15 artifacts for a core set? If recent core sets have had more, none have felt as important as they feel now. Convoke also didn't come back in RTR block, so they obviously had a plan for it in KTK block. I am curious...and a little excited to see what it will bring.
Ok this may sound really weird, but is it possible to have a card that produces token equipment? Like a card that says you tap it and it puts onto the battle field an equipment artifact token with X equip cost and gives X?
Ok this may sound really weird, but is it possible to have a card that produces token equipment? Like a card that says you tap it and it puts onto the battle field an equipment artifact token with X equip cost and gives X?
It's possible and was brought up multiple times during the GDS2. They just haven't done it yet.
There could very well be synergy between convole and khans-block, but let me remind everyone that the returning mechanic of M2014 was Slivers...
True, but the set also contained several cards that interacted with Theros block.
Most definitely, and I am sure there are likewise cards that are seeded to work with KTK. But perhaps not the whole "returning mechanic".
Although I wouldn't be surprised at all to see a token-themed KTK, in which case convoke fits perfectly.
Things that IMO could point to a token theme:
-Kharasha Foothills + Blogatog comment that hints at Planechase-planes being reworked to new planes + speculation
-Going tall in Theros + pendulum shifting
-The "Become a warlord" from the announcing KTK blurb.
Ok I was not sure if I should start a new thread on this or not but since it is closely related to it I will give the info here.
these are some quotes from Sam Stoddard's article "Link"
SPS 5/6/13: Reality check: does this mess up anything big for Huey?
This was asked during the creation of Hushwing Gryff during M 15's development.
We were a little more confident that Hushwing Gryff wouldn't blow up everything in "Huey" year.
So from this we can guess that ETB will not be a big thing in this next block. Looks like we are starting to get pieces of the puzzle.
I think this is an interesting observation. For Theros, they took it out because it was directly going against Bestow (as it worked at the time). I am wondering if the "reality check" comment means "I have little to no idea what is going on in KTK block, but last time we tried this card there was a problem. Perhaps we should check that everything is OK", or whether it means "Ha humm, this seems to be a problem with new mechanic/theme of KTK, are we sure this is OK?".
There could very well be synergy between convole and khans-block, but let me remind everyone that the returning mechanic of M2014 was Slivers...
True, but the set also contained several cards that interacted with Theros block.
Most definitely, and I am sure there are likewise cards that are seeded to work with KTK. But perhaps not the whole "returning mechanic".
Except, nowhere has it actually been stated that it is a returning mechanic. Just that it is, and I paraphrase "Something Old that people have been requesting the return off for a long time".
Personally, I am gunning for the triumphant return of the Orc tribe. Others are hoping for Dwarves, Banding (would also be cool, but the main thing speaking against it is that it is a very wordy mechanic), or even Storm (yeah, not going to happen), among others.
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Modern: UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy: UWBMiracles
Edh: UUUThassa Control WWWHokori Stax GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy BBBGriselbrand French List RBGShattergang(Super Villians) RWGHazezon Flicker UBRMarchesa Aggro URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
Except, nowhere has it actually been stated that it is a returning mechanic. Just that it is, and I paraphrase "Something Old that people have been requesting the return off for a long time".
Personally, I am gunning for the triumphant return of the Orc tribe. Others are hoping for Dwarves, Banding (would also be cool, but the main thing speaking against it is that it is a very wordy mechanic), or even Storm (yeah, not going to happen), among others.
I did not express myself clearly. I meant the returning mechanic of M2015, which is convoke. So my point was that while I definitely expect seed cards for KTK in M2015, I am doubtful whether the whole returning mechanic-convoke-was put in M2015 as a seed.
Banding is highly, highly unlikely. For example, just the other day, it was "have we seen the last of"-day on Blogatog. People would ask a question, "Have we seen the last of X", and the response would for the most case be "I doubt we've seen the last of X."
For banding, the answer was "I doubt we've seen the last of banding-like mechanics", implying (to me) that banding in its original form is more or less off the table.
Orcs and Dwarves would be cool, but I am wondering if they fit. Also from Blogatog, there was a question whether he would tell us what the "something never done before" and the "not done in a long time" things where once the set was out. He answered that "it should be obvious" but that he would tell us. I'm not sure that, if orcs returned for example, it would be obvious to most players that this is the thing "players have been begging us to do".
Except, nowhere has it actually been stated that it is a returning mechanic. Just that it is, and I paraphrase "Something Old that people have been requesting the return off for a long time".
Personally, I am gunning for the triumphant return of the Orc tribe. Others are hoping for Dwarves, Banding (would also be cool, but the main thing speaking against it is that it is a very wordy mechanic), or even Storm (yeah, not going to happen), among others.
I did not express myself clearly. I meant the returning mechanic of M2015, which is convoke. So my point was that while I definitely expect seed cards for KTK in M2015, I am doubtful whether the whole returning mechanic-convoke-was put in M2015 as a seed.
Banding is highly, highly unlikely. For example, just the other day, it was "have we seen the last of"-day on Blogatog. People would ask a question, "Have we seen the last of X", and the response would for the most case be "I doubt we've seen the last of X."
For banding, the answer was "I doubt we've seen the last of banding-like mechanics", implying (to me) that banding in its original form is more or less off the table.
Orcs and Dwarves would be cool, but I am wondering if they fit. Also from Blogatog, there was a question whether he would tell us what the "something never done before" and the "not done in a long time" things where once the set was out. He answered that "it should be obvious" but that he would tell us. I'm not sure that, if orcs returned for example, it would be obvious to most players that this is the thing "players have been begging us to do".
That doesn't mean that Banding itself is off the table, a few months ago MaRo was asked a lot about where various mechanics where on the Storm Scale, and Banding got an 8 (or was it 7?), its primary detriment being that it was wordy. Which is why they've been trying to make similar mechanics these few years that are less wordy, such as Soulbond. Never mind that none of those mechanics are anything like Banding at all. However, if Banding does return, it will most likely be in an auxiliary product and not an expert level set.
People have been asking for the return Orcs and Dwarves for a very, very, very long time. Just like people did with Merfolk way back when. And WotC have stated that they will return one day when it is in a block where it makes sense. And a war torn world seems like a good place for the return of at least one of them, possibly both. And if the KTK teaser art is anything to go by, there is a pretty good chance that at least the Orcs will return in the block. Just look at that gray-skinned humanoid in the front, looks a heck of a lot like an Orc to me.
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
Except, nowhere has it actually been stated that it is a returning mechanic. Just that it is, and I paraphrase "Something Old that people have been requesting the return off for a long time".
Personally, I am gunning for the triumphant return of the Orc tribe. Others are hoping for Dwarves, Banding (would also be cool, but the main thing speaking against it is that it is a very wordy mechanic), or even Storm (yeah, not going to happen), among others.
I did not express myself clearly. I meant the returning mechanic of M2015, which is convoke. So my point was that while I definitely expect seed cards for KTK in M2015, I am doubtful whether the whole returning mechanic-convoke-was put in M2015 as a seed.
Banding is highly, highly unlikely. For example, just the other day, it was "have we seen the last of"-day on Blogatog. People would ask a question, "Have we seen the last of X", and the response would for the most case be "I doubt we've seen the last of X."
For banding, the answer was "I doubt we've seen the last of banding-like mechanics", implying (to me) that banding in its original form is more or less off the table.
Orcs and Dwarves would be cool, but I am wondering if they fit. Also from Blogatog, there was a question whether he would tell us what the "something never done before" and the "not done in a long time" things where once the set was out. He answered that "it should be obvious" but that he would tell us. I'm not sure that, if orcs returned for example, it would be obvious to most players that this is the thing "players have been begging us to do".
That doesn't mean that Banding itself is off the table, a few months ago MaRo was asked a lot about where various mechanics where on the Storm Scale, and Banding got an 8 (or was it 7?), its primary detriment being that it was wordy. Which is why they've been trying to make similar mechanics these few years that are less wordy, such as Soulbond. Never mind that none of those mechanics are anything like Banding at all. However, if Banding does return, it will most likely be in an auxiliary product and not an expert level set.
People have been asking for the return Orcs and Dwarves for a very, very, very long time. Just like people did with Merfolk way back when. And WotC have stated that they will return one day when it is in a block where it makes sense. And a war torn world seems like a good place for the return of at least one of them, possibly both. And if the KTK teaser art is anything to go by, there is a pretty good chance that at least the Orcs will return in the block. Just look at that gray-skinned humanoid in the front, looks a heck of a lot like an Orc to me.
When were people asking for the return of Merfolk? It seems like they have been in Magic pretty consistently (not counting the break with Mirrodin, Kamigawa, and Ravnica of course).
If Tarkir is really a re-worked/re-named Mongseng. Why re-do it? Isn't Kharasha Foothills the only reference we have? It seems "war-torn" enough, so that seems to fit, and then there is a token-theme. If Tarkir also has a token-theme, which many assume, why not use Mongseng?
Isn't Mongseng enough of a blank slate that they could build pretty much whatever world they wanted from it?
Could it be because there isn't a token-theme in Tarkir?
Or could it be something purely creative? There seems to be minotaurs on Mongseng, but perhaps there are no minotaurs on Tarkir (which would kinda be a shame for the Minotaur deck in standard..)
When were people asking for the return of Merfolk? It seems like they have been in Magic pretty consistently (not counting the break with Mirrodin, Kamigawa, and Ravnica of course).
uh, that long break, including the tribal block Onslaught, was the reason people asked for their return. they were also left out of core sets after 7th edition. they tried to replace them with other blue races, but failed.
When were people asking for the return of Merfolk? It seems like they have been in Magic pretty consistently (not counting the break with Mirrodin, Kamigawa, and Ravnica of course).
uh, that long break, including the tribal block Onslaught, was the reason people asked for their return. they were also left out of core sets after 7th edition. they tried to replace them with other blue races, but failed.
They did realize that Merfolk make no flavorful sense on Mirrodin, Kamigawa, or Ravnica right? (though you have a point about the core sets)
Except, nowhere has it actually been stated that it is a returning mechanic. Just that it is, and I paraphrase "Something Old that people have been requesting the return off for a long time".
Personally, I am gunning for the triumphant return of the Orc tribe. Others are hoping for Dwarves, Banding (would also be cool, but the main thing speaking against it is that it is a very wordy mechanic), or even Storm (yeah, not going to happen), among others.
I did not express myself clearly. I meant the returning mechanic of M2015, which is convoke. So my point was that while I definitely expect seed cards for KTK in M2015, I am doubtful whether the whole returning mechanic-convoke-was put in M2015 as a seed.
Banding is highly, highly unlikely. For example, just the other day, it was "have we seen the last of"-day on Blogatog. People would ask a question, "Have we seen the last of X", and the response would for the most case be "I doubt we've seen the last of X."
For banding, the answer was "I doubt we've seen the last of banding-like mechanics", implying (to me) that banding in its original form is more or less off the table.
Orcs and Dwarves would be cool, but I am wondering if they fit. Also from Blogatog, there was a question whether he would tell us what the "something never done before" and the "not done in a long time" things where once the set was out. He answered that "it should be obvious" but that he would tell us. I'm not sure that, if orcs returned for example, it would be obvious to most players that this is the thing "players have been begging us to do".
That doesn't mean that Banding itself is off the table, a few months ago MaRo was asked a lot about where various mechanics where on the Storm Scale, and Banding got an 8 (or was it 7?), its primary detriment being that it was wordy. Which is why they've been trying to make similar mechanics these few years that are less wordy, such as Soulbond. Never mind that none of those mechanics are anything like Banding at all. However, if Banding does return, it will most likely be in an auxiliary product and not an expert level set.
People have been asking for the return Orcs and Dwarves for a very, very, very long time. Just like people did with Merfolk way back when. And WotC have stated that they will return one day when it is in a block where it makes sense. And a war torn world seems like a good place for the return of at least one of them, possibly both. And if the KTK teaser art is anything to go by, there is a pretty good chance that at least the Orcs will return in the block. Just look at that gray-skinned humanoid in the front, looks a heck of a lot like an Orc to me.
When were people asking for the return of Merfolk? It seems like they have been in Magic pretty consistently (not counting the break with Mirrodin, Kamigawa, and Ravnica of course).
About since they where removed from M:TG around, what was it again... Odyssey block, until they returned in Time Spiral block, a period of about six years. Both Cephalids and Vedalken where intended as a replacement race for them. However, the former where extremely disliked, while the latter where no where near as popular as merfolk had been. Of course, the guy who made the decision of replacing the merfolk "because they can't walk on land" (never mind they actually solved that problem way back in Masques block), is also who is to blame for the abomination that is the 8th edition Tundra Wolves art, because he felt wolves weren't "fantasy enough" (never mind that common animals are a big part of the Fantasy Genre.
Anyway, the blowback regarding the removal of merfolk as blue's iconic race was massive, which is what lead to their inevitable proper return in Lorwyn block, and why we now get them in every block where they fit in (such as Theros).
Orcs are currently the most requested race to bring back, with Dwarves a close second.
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---
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these are some quotes from Sam Stoddard's article "Link"
This was asked during the creation of Hushwing Gryff during M 15's development.
So from this we can guess that ETB will not be a big thing in this next block. Looks like we are starting to get pieces of the puzzle.
(Seriously though, dwarves would be cool!)
-Walls: Nice flavor with building an army; the army attacking into the walls. Possibly like they did in ROE.
-Artifacts: There hasn't been artifact synergy in a core set since M11, which hinted towards scars block, so I don't think this is just for limited purposes. If there is an artifact theme in KTK, it will be a smaller than what wizards did with scars block.
-Graveyard: The new Jace, dissipate and tormod's crypt all point to a graveyard theme.
All these themes have been done before, so there might be something everyone is glancing over.
Am I missing anything here?
I think Convoke and the presence of 25+ artifacts are the 2 big things to take from M15.
Usually we have...10-15 artifacts for a core set? If recent core sets have had more, none have felt as important as they feel now. Convoke also didn't come back in RTR block, so they obviously had a plan for it in KTK block. I am curious...and a little excited to see what it will bring.
WBG Karador GBW
R Daretti R
RG Omnath GR
WRG Modern Burn GRW
WB Modern Tokens BW
DCI Rules Advisor as of 5/18/2015
The obvious one: Convoke, in all five colors (unlike the two color draft strategies you mention) points to massive armies matter.
- Main Cube
- No Brains, All Feelings Cube
So yeah, walls that summon tokens is a good guess. Fortifications that summon tokens is also a possibility. Hmm, that sounds kinda familiar.
There could very well be synergy between convole and khans-block, but let me remind everyone that the returning mechanic of M2014 was Slivers...
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
True, but the set also contained several cards that interacted with Theros block.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
Agreed. My guess is equipment and tokens.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
It's possible and was brought up multiple times during the GDS2. They just haven't done it yet.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Most definitely, and I am sure there are likewise cards that are seeded to work with KTK. But perhaps not the whole "returning mechanic".
Although I wouldn't be surprised at all to see a token-themed KTK, in which case convoke fits perfectly.
Things that IMO could point to a token theme:
-Kharasha Foothills + Blogatog comment that hints at Planechase-planes being reworked to new planes + speculation
-Going tall in Theros + pendulum shifting
-The "Become a warlord" from the announcing KTK blurb.
I think this is an interesting observation. For Theros, they took it out because it was directly going against Bestow (as it worked at the time). I am wondering if the "reality check" comment means "I have little to no idea what is going on in KTK block, but last time we tried this card there was a problem. Perhaps we should check that everything is OK", or whether it means "Ha humm, this seems to be a problem with new mechanic/theme of KTK, are we sure this is OK?".
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
Except, nowhere has it actually been stated that it is a returning mechanic. Just that it is, and I paraphrase "Something Old that people have been requesting the return off for a long time".
Personally, I am gunning for the triumphant return of the Orc tribe. Others are hoping for Dwarves, Banding (would also be cool, but the main thing speaking against it is that it is a very wordy mechanic), or even Storm (yeah, not going to happen), among others.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
AKA: creatures thats puts tokens on ETB or after triggers or by activating a ability
but spells that puts tokens like Talrand's Invocation i don't see...
Even with the warlords theme of Khans we know that those warlords have generals that commands their troops ( Sarkhan was one)
Draft it Here!
UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy:
UWBMiracles
Edh:
UUUThassa Control
WWWHokori Stax
GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy
BBBGriselbrand French List
RBGShattergang(Super Villians)
RWGHazezon Flicker
UBRMarchesa Aggro
URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
I did not express myself clearly. I meant the returning mechanic of M2015, which is convoke. So my point was that while I definitely expect seed cards for KTK in M2015, I am doubtful whether the whole returning mechanic-convoke-was put in M2015 as a seed.
Banding is highly, highly unlikely. For example, just the other day, it was "have we seen the last of"-day on Blogatog. People would ask a question, "Have we seen the last of X", and the response would for the most case be "I doubt we've seen the last of X."
For banding, the answer was "I doubt we've seen the last of banding-like mechanics", implying (to me) that banding in its original form is more or less off the table.
Orcs and Dwarves would be cool, but I am wondering if they fit. Also from Blogatog, there was a question whether he would tell us what the "something never done before" and the "not done in a long time" things where once the set was out. He answered that "it should be obvious" but that he would tell us. I'm not sure that, if orcs returned for example, it would be obvious to most players that this is the thing "players have been begging us to do".
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
That doesn't mean that Banding itself is off the table, a few months ago MaRo was asked a lot about where various mechanics where on the Storm Scale, and Banding got an 8 (or was it 7?), its primary detriment being that it was wordy. Which is why they've been trying to make similar mechanics these few years that are less wordy, such as Soulbond. Never mind that none of those mechanics are anything like Banding at all. However, if Banding does return, it will most likely be in an auxiliary product and not an expert level set.
People have been asking for the return Orcs and Dwarves for a very, very, very long time. Just like people did with Merfolk way back when. And WotC have stated that they will return one day when it is in a block where it makes sense. And a war torn world seems like a good place for the return of at least one of them, possibly both. And if the KTK teaser art is anything to go by, there is a pretty good chance that at least the Orcs will return in the block. Just look at that gray-skinned humanoid in the front, looks a heck of a lot like an Orc to me.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
When were people asking for the return of Merfolk? It seems like they have been in Magic pretty consistently (not counting the break with Mirrodin, Kamigawa, and Ravnica of course).
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
If Tarkir is really a re-worked/re-named Mongseng. Why re-do it? Isn't Kharasha Foothills the only reference we have? It seems "war-torn" enough, so that seems to fit, and then there is a token-theme. If Tarkir also has a token-theme, which many assume, why not use Mongseng?
Isn't Mongseng enough of a blank slate that they could build pretty much whatever world they wanted from it?
Could it be because there isn't a token-theme in Tarkir?
Or could it be something purely creative? There seems to be minotaurs on Mongseng, but perhaps there are no minotaurs on Tarkir (which would kinda be a shame for the Minotaur deck in standard..)
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
uh, that long break, including the tribal block Onslaught, was the reason people asked for their return. they were also left out of core sets after 7th edition. they tried to replace them with other blue races, but failed.
........................
They did realize that Merfolk make no flavorful sense on Mirrodin, Kamigawa, or Ravnica right? (though you have a point about the core sets)
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
About since they where removed from M:TG around, what was it again... Odyssey block, until they returned in Time Spiral block, a period of about six years. Both Cephalids and Vedalken where intended as a replacement race for them. However, the former where extremely disliked, while the latter where no where near as popular as merfolk had been. Of course, the guy who made the decision of replacing the merfolk "because they can't walk on land" (never mind they actually solved that problem way back in Masques block), is also who is to blame for the abomination that is the 8th edition Tundra Wolves art, because he felt wolves weren't "fantasy enough" (never mind that common animals are a big part of the Fantasy Genre.
Anyway, the blowback regarding the removal of merfolk as blue's iconic race was massive, which is what lead to their inevitable proper return in Lorwyn block, and why we now get them in every block where they fit in (such as Theros).
Orcs are currently the most requested race to bring back, with Dwarves a close second.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.