Its obvious Wizards lies a lot, especially Maro, but as long as there are some lands and it's not a cycle of crappy lands ETB tapped that turns the whole format into a midrange monocolor borefest I don't mind.
Uh, in what way is "we thought this, but then we changed our minds" a lie? That's just... changing your mind. Lying is telling someone something that you know is untrue to people that you think might believe it to be true.
Does it really matter? Everyone always tries to use what they say in an article or on Blogatog as "supreme evidence". The point is to take everything they say with a grain of salt, and I point out Maro specifically because he's an unofficial spokesperson and loves to talk in absolutes on his blog.
Actually, it does kinda matter, especially because I don't see anything that's been explicitly contradicted from his blog. Like, for starters, I feel it's worth pointing out he's said multiple times that he thought the painlands were coming back at some point.
As for the fact only the enemy painlands are in M15, here's what I could find him saying on the subject:
"R&D has come around on dual lands and now believes that we have to try and give the audience access to all ten pairs as much as we can." Maybe someone else said something different, but that's all I could find from Rosewater on his blog. I know they've somewhere mentioned the reason they took the painlands out of the core sets was because new players didn't like paying life for mana, but unless they said "we're not doing that again" that's not making a false statement.
Not that they always will, just as much as they can. In fact, if we're going by the "all color combinations get equal fixing at all times" I'd like to point out that was broken when Theros and Return to Ravnica were released, as only half of the applicable lands were available.
was released (only half were available in those sets).
Now, the article introducing the painlands mentions there being a cycle in Khans. It doesn't explicitly say it's a 10- or 5-land cycle, but if it's 5 allied lands then that still sticks with what they've stated before. If it's a 10-land, though, then they are really breaking that. But at the moment, there's no actual contradiction between what they've said in the past regarding these and what they're currently doing.
Unless there's more specific statements from WOTC I'm missing, I think the most you can say from these recent developments is not that WOTC is lying or going against what they've said before, but that players were interpreting what they were saying wrong.
Also, think of the casual players: duals might not be that important to them, so they present valuable trade fodder. A Battlefield Forge is not going to be traded for much, but an Arid Mesa or Sacred Foundry that you don't need can command a nice return. Valuable rares make packs less of a lottery overall and, consequently, make it much easier for players who don't necessarily care about playing competitive standard to get access to what they do want. (This includes people who draft a lot.) They also lower prices on desirable mythics, since those mythics are no longer responsible for most of the set's EV. Whereas those cool creatures and powerful spells are probably much less valuable after the block rotates, good lands will retain value and playability for when the new player is looking to upgrade to Modern, or if they're looking to trade in the future. The $12+ you spend on a playset of Battlefield Forges is almost completely gone once they rotate, but those Sacred Foundries and Arid Mesas will be worth their price forever.
That isn't exactly how it works though. Shocks were the most valuable RTR cards, so the set was overbought, and the value of rares went down and down. While good in some ways, it has many drawbacks as well.
Prices for eternal staples that may also be trade fodder like Deathrite Shaman and Abrupt Decay were likely dragged down with high supply. New players saw huge loss in value on cards that seemed powerful like planeswalkers. It also opens them up for being ripped off early in their time in the game. There is also speculation that Wizards watered down the block for eternal playables as it already had put in enough value to sell large quantities of the set.
If you look not only at this printing, but also at the non-printing of Liliana of the Veil, here's what I'm thinking about Wizards R&D:
They are trying hard to include cards that are relevant for eternal formats, but their number one priority will be the standard format.
From comments on Blogatog lately, we know that Liliana of the Veil was in the set for a long time, meaning that they really tried to make her work. Eventually, though, they decided that it was more important to have a healthy standard format than to have a popular reprint.
From Sam Stoddard's comments in his article, we know that they chose this cycle in order to leave aggro-decks competitive after the shocklands rotate.
You know what has seen print before in core sets? Painlands. Allied Painlands were printed in 5th, 6th, 7th, 9th, and 10th edition coresets. Enemy Painlands have been printed in 9th, 10th, and now Magic 2015 for coresets.
In retrospect it makes perfect sense, it really does. Painlands are the closest thing to Mana Confluence, since they remarking about how the lands they were printing in the future would go nicely with Mana Confluence's theme.
Also, think of the casual players: duals might not be that important to them, so they present valuable trade fodder. A Battlefield Forge is not going to be traded for much, but an Arid Mesa or Sacred Foundry that you don't need can command a nice return. Valuable rares make packs less of a lottery overall and, consequently, make it much easier for players who don't necessarily care about playing competitive standard to get access to what they do want. (This includes people who draft a lot.) They also lower prices on desirable mythics, since those mythics are no longer responsible for most of the set's EV. Whereas those cool creatures and powerful spells are probably much less valuable after the block rotates, good lands will retain value and playability for when the new player is looking to upgrade to Modern, or if they're looking to trade in the future. The $12+ you spend on a playset of Battlefield Forges is almost completely gone once they rotate, but those Sacred Foundries and Arid Mesas will be worth their price forever.
That isn't exactly how it works though. Shocks were the most valuable RTR cards, so the set was overbought, and the value of rares went down and down.
What? The most valuable RTR cards this standard season were Sphinx's Revelation and Jace. Now the most valuable card is Abrupt Decay. The shocks are around $8 apiece. Except for Jace, which doubled in price when Innistrad rotated, these prices have been fairly constant throughout the season, as have prices for most of the rares in the set.
Also: what is "overbought" even supposed to mean? People liked RTR too much?
Prices for eternal staples that may also be trade fodder like Deathrite Shaman and Abrupt Decay were likely dragged down with high supply.
So? That value was spread out over more of the set, making it more likely that you open a card that's worth something. What matters is not whether a card reaches its full potential during the standard season, but how the total set value is distributed. If Deathrite Shaman had instead been a reprint of a $2 card, then its value would have been even lower.
New players saw huge loss in value on cards that seemed powerful like planeswalkers. It also opens them up for being ripped off early in their time in the game.
So? This happens all the time. Go ahead and buy a playset of Llanowar Wastes today and see if that price holds up in two months. Plus, those new players who bought Jace, Domri, Sphinx's Revelation, Nightveil Specter, etc. saw massive gains. Nothing's ever a sure thing. But the absence of valuable rares means that when most prices drop, the prices of the actual good cards skyrocket, since they're the only things propping up the value of the set. This is what happened to Worldwake, for instance.
Also, you know what's great trade fodder that probably won't lose its value and that won't leave you holding the bag in a trade? Valuable lands. If most of the value of the set is concentrated in the cool creatures and expensive spells, you're much more likely as a new player to buy into something that's doomed than if you were to buy up something like shocks or fetches.
There is also speculation that Wizards watered down the block for eternal playables as it already had put in enough value to sell large quantities of the set.
"I am so stupid that I cannot understand philosophy; the antithesis of this is that philosophy is so clever that it cannot comprehend my stupidity. These antitheses are mediated in a higher unity; in our common stupidity."
~ Søren Aabye Kierkegaard
I'm looking forward to Painland Standard + Mana Confluence.
Would be interesting if only allied fetches are reprinted alongside a non-basic ten land dual cycle. Even if speculation about it being a wedge block is true, we don't need tri-lands for it. Would help separate it from Alara, as well.
No matter what the next block is like, I'm hoping it has an interesting, skill intensive mana base. These painlands are a good start.
Just want to weigh in here. The comment about painlands and how they are similar to what we may see in khans, along with the idea of it being a wedge set, makes me think they may do the Murmuring Bosk cycle of wedge 'painlands'
Just want to weigh in here. The comment about painlands and how they are similar to what we may see in khans, along with the idea of it being a wedge set, makes me think they may do the Murmuring Bosk cycle of wedge 'painlands'
I could see but they would use ( probably) the pay 1 life template and remove the tribal type... maybe do they EBT cause they are fetchable...
Unless something is leaked the painlands will stay steady until the new spoiler season comes up. It will be interesting to see how wizards handles the next spoiler season. The magic community is foaming at the mouth for fetches. I have a complete set from trades of other small stuff. I try to get land cycle sets. I have been playing since 1994 but there were stints I didn't play I missed out on fetches both times as well as pains. I would love to see their reprint but they seem like they might be out of place in this block. That being said the speculation in my lgs is allied fetches in takir and enemy in modern masters 2. That would be a homerun in my book.
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As for the fact only the enemy painlands are in M15, here's what I could find him saying on the subject:
"R&D has come around on dual lands and now believes that we have to try and give the audience access to all ten pairs as much as we can." Maybe someone else said something different, but that's all I could find from Rosewater on his blog. I know they've somewhere mentioned the reason they took the painlands out of the core sets was because new players didn't like paying life for mana, but unless they said "we're not doing that again" that's not making a false statement.
Not that they always will, just as much as they can. In fact, if we're going by the "all color combinations get equal fixing at all times" I'd like to point out that was broken when Theros and Return to Ravnica were released, as only half of the applicable lands were available.
was released (only half were available in those sets).
Now, the article introducing the painlands mentions there being a cycle in Khans. It doesn't explicitly say it's a 10- or 5-land cycle, but if it's 5 allied lands then that still sticks with what they've stated before. If it's a 10-land, though, then they are really breaking that. But at the moment, there's no actual contradiction between what they've said in the past regarding these and what they're currently doing.
Unless there's more specific statements from WOTC I'm missing, I think the most you can say from these recent developments is not that WOTC is lying or going against what they've said before, but that players were interpreting what they were saying wrong.
That isn't exactly how it works though. Shocks were the most valuable RTR cards, so the set was overbought, and the value of rares went down and down. While good in some ways, it has many drawbacks as well.
Prices for eternal staples that may also be trade fodder like Deathrite Shaman and Abrupt Decay were likely dragged down with high supply. New players saw huge loss in value on cards that seemed powerful like planeswalkers. It also opens them up for being ripped off early in their time in the game. There is also speculation that Wizards watered down the block for eternal playables as it already had put in enough value to sell large quantities of the set.
They are trying hard to include cards that are relevant for eternal formats, but their number one priority will be the standard format.
From comments on Blogatog lately, we know that Liliana of the Veil was in the set for a long time, meaning that they really tried to make her work. Eventually, though, they decided that it was more important to have a healthy standard format than to have a popular reprint.
From Sam Stoddard's comments in his article, we know that they chose this cycle in order to leave aggro-decks competitive after the shocklands rotate.
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In retrospect it makes perfect sense, it really does. Painlands are the closest thing to Mana Confluence, since they remarking about how the lands they were printing in the future would go nicely with Mana Confluence's theme.
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Also: what is "overbought" even supposed to mean? People liked RTR too much?
So? That value was spread out over more of the set, making it more likely that you open a card that's worth something. What matters is not whether a card reaches its full potential during the standard season, but how the total set value is distributed. If Deathrite Shaman had instead been a reprint of a $2 card, then its value would have been even lower.
So? This happens all the time. Go ahead and buy a playset of Llanowar Wastes today and see if that price holds up in two months. Plus, those new players who bought Jace, Domri, Sphinx's Revelation, Nightveil Specter, etc. saw massive gains. Nothing's ever a sure thing. But the absence of valuable rares means that when most prices drop, the prices of the actual good cards skyrocket, since they're the only things propping up the value of the set. This is what happened to Worldwake, for instance.
Also, you know what's great trade fodder that probably won't lose its value and that won't leave you holding the bag in a trade? Valuable lands. If most of the value of the set is concentrated in the cool creatures and expensive spells, you're much more likely as a new player to buy into something that's doomed than if you were to buy up something like shocks or fetches.
Uh, OK.
~ Søren Aabye Kierkegaard
Would be interesting if only allied fetches are reprinted alongside a non-basic ten land dual cycle. Even if speculation about it being a wedge block is true, we don't need tri-lands for it. Would help separate it from Alara, as well.
No matter what the next block is like, I'm hoping it has an interesting, skill intensive mana base. These painlands are a good start.
Marath, Will of the Wild Tokens!! / Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund Dragons! / Muzzio, Visionary Architect / Brago, King Eternal / Daretti, Scrap Savant / Narset, Enlightened Master / Alesha, Who Smiles at Death / Bruna, Light of Alabaster / Marchesa, the Black Rose / Iroas, God of Victory / Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury / Omnath, Locus of rage / Titania, Protector of Argoth / Kozilek, the Great Distortion
Modern
Elves / Titanshift / Merfolk
I could see but they would use ( probably) the pay 1 life template and remove the tribal type... maybe do they EBT cause they are fetchable...