That amazing moment when you're playing Burn and the other guy Turn 2 Domri into Turn 3 Polukranos into turn 4 and 5 Stormbreath and there's literally nothing in your deck that comes close to racing it.
Then you switch to MBD and Thougsieze, Abrupt Decay (Domri), Lifebane Zombie their greeny and Downfall/Flesh their Stormbreath. And let them deal with your Demon, Connections/Gary chain.
"Standard Dying Out" is opinion, never fact.
Throughout Magic: The Gathering's history, it has pushed people away. It also pulled people in as well.
The question is, for the individual, where do you draw the line for the format known as Standard/T2.
A fairly simplistic example is the Return To Ravnica*/Magic 2014/Theros*; does it pull or push individuals away from Standard/T2? The answer is purely opinion of a individual and of possibly the individual's friends and/or fellow family members.
*= Full Block
Yes you're right! I totally saw a tarmogoyf today in my garden. Most common thing in my country.
Magic has nothing to do with that. He is just a normal creature that roams the world. It's a different world so you will see different looking beings.
If humanity ever comes in contact with aliens and they look different from everything we know do you would say that is magic? Probably not since it's just biology and evolution that causes them to look different.
Yes you're right! I totally saw a tarmogoyf today in my garden. Most common thing in my country.
Magic has nothing to do with that. He is just a normal creature that roams the world. It's a different world so you will see different looking beings.
If humanity ever comes in contact with aliens and they look different from everything we know do you would say that is magic? Probably not since it's just biology and evolution that causes them to look different.
Actually, as a planeswalker you use mana from the land to summon those creatures to battle.
That's Magic.
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Old enough to know better, much too young to care.
Yes you're right! I totally saw a tarmogoyf today in my garden. Most common thing in my country.
Magic has nothing to do with that. He is just a normal creature that roams the world. It's a different world so you will see different looking beings.
If humanity ever comes in contact with aliens and they look different from everything we know do you would say that is magic? Probably not since it's just biology and evolution that causes them to look different.
Actually, as a planeswalker you use mana from the land to summon those creatures to battle.
That's Magic.
That may be so when battling but it is still a normal beast in its own world and nothing magical.
Yes you're right! I totally saw a tarmogoyf today in my garden. Most common thing in my country.
Magic has nothing to do with that. He is just a normal creature that roams the world. It's a different world so you will see different looking beings.
If humanity ever comes in contact with aliens and they look different from everything we know do you would say that is magic? Probably not since it's just biology and evolution that causes them to look different.
I will contact Richard Garfield and tell him that he commited an error when he created magic, the game should only have sorceries and enchantments, because lands, creatures and artifacts aren't magical.
Yes you're right! I totally saw a tarmogoyf today in my garden. Most common thing in my country.
Magic has nothing to do with that. He is just a normal creature that roams the world. It's a different world so you will see different looking beings.
If humanity ever comes in contact with aliens and they look different from everything we know do you would say that is magic? Probably not since it's just biology and evolution that causes them to look different.
I will contact Richard Garfield and tell him that he commited an error when he created magic, the game should only have sorceries and enchantments, because lands, creatures and artifacts aren't magical.
Lands tap for mana. Mana = magical energy needed to cast spells = magic.
Creatures: Some are magical by their very nature. Some are not.
Artifacts: Some are magical by their very nature. Some are not.
Richard Garfield didn't make any mistake when he created the game. If you still can't see the difference between things that are magical and things that are not then I can't help you and give up.
This thread is about Standard dying out and has been derailed enough. I have voiced my opinion on that matter already a few pages ago.
I will contact Richard Garfield and tell him that he commited an error when he created magic, the game should only have sorceries and enchantments, because lands, creatures and artifacts aren't magical.
Lands tap for mana. Mana = magical energy needed to cast spells = magic.
Creatures: Some are magical by their very nature. Some are not.
Artifacts: Some are magical by their very nature. Some are not.
Richard Garfield didn't make any mistake when he created the game. If you still can't see the difference between things that are magical and things that are not then I can't help you and give up.
Islands are magical because they make mana but magically summoning a Glizzly Bear isn't magical because it isn't?
Everything is magical in the context of this game. That's the point you're refusing to see.
I will contact Richard Garfield and tell him that he commited an error when he created magic, the game should only have sorceries and enchantments, because lands, creatures and artifacts aren't magical.
Lands tap for mana. Mana = magical energy needed to cast spells = magic.
Creatures: Some are magical by their very nature. Some are not.
Artifacts: Some are magical by their very nature. Some are not.
Richard Garfield didn't make any mistake when he created the game. If you still can't see the difference between things that are magical and things that are not then I can't help you and give up.
Islands are magical because they make mana but magically summoning a Glizzly Bear isn't magical because it isn't?
Everything is magical in the context of this game. That's the point you're refusing to see.
He thinks Dark Confidant is magical, sorry, but he's just a dude. Playing him feels like Insider trading on the stock market.
As far as Standard dying out, it isn't. Only an idiot, or a troll would suggest that a game is decided on one strategy being viable over another. I've won many games in legacy and modern with dudes that could only attack or block. Why, because it's a strategy and part of magic. If the options weren't viable then he'd have a leg to stand upon but he doesn't. Until that person in question contributes something other than trollish behavior I'd ignore his comments.
As for standard dying out, I think it's doing just fine. On FNM, there's 40+ people that play standard, 40+ for drafts, and 10-15 for modern (a few have some really good decks so I switch up decks every time I play to keep people on their toes). EDH gets about 19 people on Tuesday nights, Weds is Modern/Legacy and might get 8 people to show up, Thursday free standard, Saturday, Sunday, and Monday anything goes. I play modern for crazy games, legacy for insanely crazy games with a blowout according to whom goes off first, EDH for crazy plays you'd never see play in a legacy or modern game, and standard for balanced and fair games.
I've played many decks that feel like a random assortment of powerful cards and planeswalkers that are just too hard to overcome, even with the guy behind it making obvious mistakes, the power of the cards was such that it won games once they were on the table (another reason why Black is prefered over say, Red).
It's mostly due to the fact that there is essentially no tier 1 agro decks. Sylvan Caryatid and Courser can stop the already weak agro decks. Because of this standard comes down to raw late game power, a place where good stuff planeswalker decks shine
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I will contact Richard Garfield and tell him that he commited an error when he created magic, the game should only have sorceries and enchantments, because lands, creatures and artifacts aren't magical.
Lands tap for mana. Mana = magical energy needed to cast spells = magic.
Creatures: Some are magical by their very nature. Some are not.
Artifacts: Some are magical by their very nature. Some are not.
Richard Garfield didn't make any mistake when he created the game. If you still can't see the difference between things that are magical and things that are not then I can't help you and give up.
Islands are magical because they make mana but magically summoning a Glizzly Bear isn't magical because it isn't?
Everything is magical in the context of this game. That's the point you're refusing to see.
I already acknowledged how it works in the context of the game when two planeswalkers battle each other. But Magic is not just a game, it's also an entire universe with many different planes of existence. In that context not everything is magical. If you wander the forests of a random plane and meet a bear he is not magical. There is no planeswalker summoning him, he is normal being that lives in the forest.
There is a difference between how the game works and how things are in the universe. Those humans on Innistrad are normal humans without any magic at all that is why the worship Avacyn because she is an actual magical being that can protect them from werewolves and vampires and demons. In planeswalker battles animals/beasts may be magical but if you meet them in nature of their respective plane there are not.
That is the point that you seem to be missing.
I get that point. But within the context of planeswalker battles (essentially what MTG is all about - you the Planeswalker battling with another PW), the summoning of creatures is indeed very magical, therefore when you are engaged in a battle (ie a game of Magic) the creatures are just as much an element of Magic as the other spells you cast.
*Edit*
I just realized how far into the pit of 'nerddom' we have fallen in this thread. LOL!
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Old enough to know better, much too young to care.
I just realized how far into the pit of 'nerddom' we have fallen in this thread. LOL!
Indeed. Let's go back to bashing standard before this gets out of control.
On topic, Standard is not going to die. We tend to forget this, but the average Magic player only plays the game for two or three years, meaning that Standard and limited is the only format they would play.
I kind of agree with the spirit of this thread. The last two Fridays now have been my first experience in FNM since this time last year. I got 3rd place the first time, and got 1st last night. In my experience Standard matters very little on strategy and more on who goes first. Also, the Sylvan Caryatid/Courser of Kruphinx/Polukranos thing is reminding me of Affinity in how frequently it's played in my meta. I got a first round bye last night, and spent more of the round standing between tables and watching games. At one point, I was literally watching 2 matches, all 4 players were playing Sylvan Caryatid, Courser, and Polukranos. It's really irritating. I played 6 of my 7 matches last night not playing any of these cards, and literally playing against these cards 5 of the 6 matches I played. I'm playing Mono Red Devotion splashing black for Thoughtseize.
Now, the problem as I've been chiming on for years now is that Wizards have actively attempted to make it so spells are way less powerful than creatures. The problem we're running into now is that green creatures are so far and away better than every other color that the other colors that do aggro (white/red/black) can't even really keep up. Nice Rakdos Cackler bro, here's my Caryatid. Nice Fleecemane Lion bro, here's my Courser of Kruphix.
As unpopular of an opinion as this is going to be, I think the solution to current Standard is probably banning Sylvan Caryatid. That's the card that props up the green decks. You can at least Mizzium Mortars the Coursers. You literally as a person playing 2/1s and 2/2s can do nothing at all against Sylvan Caryatid. Truly one of the most boring and format warping uninteractive cards I've seen in awhile. Derp derp, any mana, 3 toughness and hexproof. Lets completely crush fast decks with a card that can't even be killed, derp derp.
Green seriously is the most popular and powerful color in Magic, at least in my meta.
Green seriously is the most popular and powerful color in Magic, at least in my meta.
Considering that in the tournament scene (Opens/Gps), Mono-Black is by far the most popular deck, and its best matchup are the Green decks. Maybe no one at your store plays Black Devotion because it's arguably the best color in Standard right now.
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Old enough to know better, much too young to care.
I will agree that Mono Black with or without Green is probably the best deck in Standard, or one of them, but I really think if you look at Standard as a whole, Courser/Caryatid/Polukranos or any combination of those are played more overall, and it's pretty unfun. Jund Monsters is a thing(playing green and black), Mono Green is a thing, Mono Green splashing Black, Black/Green Constellation, I've even seen a guy at my shop doing Red/Green with Courser/Caryatid/Polukranos splashing blue for Cyclonic Rift blowouts. It's just annoying. And again, it's bad enough that we have a 5/5 for 4 with 0 drawbacks and upside these days...that can be dealt with the small amount of removal we're given to deal with it, but the problem is Caryatid. You literally have 0 viable ways to deal with Caryatid. It's uninteractive and defines the entire format.
I will agree that Mono Black with or without Green is probably the best deck in Standard, or one of them, but I really think if you look at Standard as a whole, Courser/Caryatid/Polukranos or any combination of those are played more overall, and it's pretty unfun. Jund Monsters is a thing(playing green and black), Mono Green is a thing, Mono Green splashing Black, Black/Green Constellation, I've even seen a guy at my shop doing Red/Green with Courser/Caryatid/Polukranos splashing blue for Cyclonic Rift blowouts. It's just annoying. And again, it's bad enough that we have a 5/5 for 4 with 0 drawbacks and upside these days...that can be dealt with the small amount of removal we're given to deal with it, but the problem is Caryatid. You literally have 0 viable ways to deal with Caryatid. It's uninteractive and defines the entire format.
Ban Sylvan Caryatid.
Why dont play decks then that don't care about Caryatid like UW/x Control? I mean you will cast Supreme Verdict anyway.
So the 'answer' to Sylvan Caryatid is a card that forces you to play two colors. That seems fair, considering the card you're hating out is a mono colored card, that has no restrictive casting cost(1 green), and is in like 90% of tournament decks right now. Seems legit.
But no no no, Serum Visions and Mana Leak are 'too powerful' according to Wizards R&D.
So the 'answer' to Sylvan Caryatid is a card that forces you to play two colors. That seems fair, considering the card you're hating out is a mono colored card, that has no restrictive casting cost(1 green), and is in like 90% of tournament decks right now. Seems legit.
But no no no, Serum Visions and Mana Leak are 'too powerful' according to Wizards R&D.
There is also Devour Flesh and Far // Away. Black midrange/control decks dont care that much either about Caryatid.
So the 'answer' to Sylvan Caryatid is a card that forces you to play two colors. That seems fair, considering the card you're hating out is a mono colored card, that has no restrictive casting cost(1 green), and is in like 90% of tournament decks right now. Seems legit.
But no no no, Serum Visions and Mana Leak are 'too powerful' according to Wizards R&D.
There is also Devour Flesh and Far // Away. Black midrange/control decks dont care that much either about Caryatid.
Exactly. Caryatid can be annoying, but any flyier can simply act as if it didn't exist. Also, it has 0 power, so while it can block your weenies, it can't destroy them. I'm not saying it's a bad card, but is very, very far from ban-worthy.
Then you switch to MBD and Thougsieze, Abrupt Decay (Domri), Lifebane Zombie their greeny and Downfall/Flesh their Stormbreath. And let them deal with your Demon, Connections/Gary chain.
It's all relative and cyclical.
Yes you're right! I totally saw a tarmogoyf today in my garden. Most common thing in my country.
Throughout Magic: The Gathering's history, it has pushed people away. It also pulled people in as well.
The question is, for the individual, where do you draw the line for the format known as Standard/T2.
A fairly simplistic example is the Return To Ravnica*/Magic 2014/Theros*; does it pull or push individuals away from Standard/T2? The answer is purely opinion of a individual and of possibly the individual's friends and/or fellow family members.
*= Full Block
Magic has nothing to do with that. He is just a normal creature that roams the world. It's a different world so you will see different looking beings.
If humanity ever comes in contact with aliens and they look different from everything we know do you would say that is magic? Probably not since it's just biology and evolution that causes them to look different.
Actually, as a planeswalker you use mana from the land to summon those creatures to battle.
That's Magic.
That may be so when battling but it is still a normal beast in its own world and nothing magical.
So, what's magical about Lightning Ball and Incinerate then? Or Island, for that matter?
I will contact Richard Garfield and tell him that he commited an error when he created magic, the game should only have sorceries and enchantments, because lands, creatures and artifacts aren't magical.
I 100% agree with the OP
Her Shop on Etsy
THS-KTK: Rabble Red
RTR-THS: Dega Midrange
INN-RTR: Boros Humans
SOM-INN: B/u Control
Modern: Mono-Black Infect
Lands tap for mana. Mana = magical energy needed to cast spells = magic.
Creatures: Some are magical by their very nature. Some are not.
Artifacts: Some are magical by their very nature. Some are not.
Richard Garfield didn't make any mistake when he created the game. If you still can't see the difference between things that are magical and things that are not then I can't help you and give up.
This thread is about Standard dying out and has been derailed enough. I have voiced my opinion on that matter already a few pages ago.
Islands are magical because they make mana but magically summoning a Glizzly Bear isn't magical because it isn't?
Everything is magical in the context of this game. That's the point you're refusing to see.
He thinks Dark Confidant is magical, sorry, but he's just a dude. Playing him feels like Insider trading on the stock market.
As far as Standard dying out, it isn't. Only an idiot, or a troll would suggest that a game is decided on one strategy being viable over another. I've won many games in legacy and modern with dudes that could only attack or block. Why, because it's a strategy and part of magic. If the options weren't viable then he'd have a leg to stand upon but he doesn't. Until that person in question contributes something other than trollish behavior I'd ignore his comments.
As for standard dying out, I think it's doing just fine. On FNM, there's 40+ people that play standard, 40+ for drafts, and 10-15 for modern (a few have some really good decks so I switch up decks every time I play to keep people on their toes). EDH gets about 19 people on Tuesday nights, Weds is Modern/Legacy and might get 8 people to show up, Thursday free standard, Saturday, Sunday, and Monday anything goes. I play modern for crazy games, legacy for insanely crazy games with a blowout according to whom goes off first, EDH for crazy plays you'd never see play in a legacy or modern game, and standard for balanced and fair games.
It's mostly due to the fact that there is essentially no tier 1 agro decks. Sylvan Caryatid and Courser can stop the already weak agro decks. Because of this standard comes down to raw late game power, a place where good stuff planeswalker decks shine
WBB/W TokensWB
WUBAd NauseamWUB
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WG Captain Sisay's LegendsWG
I already acknowledged how it works in the context of the game when two planeswalkers battle each other. But Magic is not just a game, it's also an entire universe with many different planes of existence. In that context not everything is magical. If you wander the forests of a random plane and meet a bear he is not magical. There is no planeswalker summoning him, he is normal being that lives in the forest.
There is a difference between how the game works and how things are in the universe. Those humans on Innistrad are normal humans without any magic at all that is why the worship Avacyn because she is an actual magical being that can protect them from werewolves and vampires and demons. In planeswalker battles animals/beasts may be magical but if you meet them in nature of their respective plane there are not.
That is the point that you seem to be missing.
*Edit*
I just realized how far into the pit of 'nerddom' we have fallen in this thread. LOL!
Indeed. Let's go back to bashing standard before this gets out of control.
On topic, Standard is not going to die. We tend to forget this, but the average Magic player only plays the game for two or three years, meaning that Standard and limited is the only format they would play.
Now, the problem as I've been chiming on for years now is that Wizards have actively attempted to make it so spells are way less powerful than creatures. The problem we're running into now is that green creatures are so far and away better than every other color that the other colors that do aggro (white/red/black) can't even really keep up. Nice Rakdos Cackler bro, here's my Caryatid. Nice Fleecemane Lion bro, here's my Courser of Kruphix.
As unpopular of an opinion as this is going to be, I think the solution to current Standard is probably banning Sylvan Caryatid. That's the card that props up the green decks. You can at least Mizzium Mortars the Coursers. You literally as a person playing 2/1s and 2/2s can do nothing at all against Sylvan Caryatid. Truly one of the most boring and format warping uninteractive cards I've seen in awhile. Derp derp, any mana, 3 toughness and hexproof. Lets completely crush fast decks with a card that can't even be killed, derp derp.
Green seriously is the most popular and powerful color in Magic, at least in my meta.
Ban Sylvan Caryatid.
Why dont play decks then that don't care about Caryatid like UW/x Control? I mean you will cast Supreme Verdict anyway.
But no no no, Serum Visions and Mana Leak are 'too powerful' according to Wizards R&D.
There is also Devour Flesh and Far // Away. Black midrange/control decks dont care that much either about Caryatid.
Exactly. Caryatid can be annoying, but any flyier can simply act as if it didn't exist. Also, it has 0 power, so while it can block your weenies, it can't destroy them. I'm not saying it's a bad card, but is very, very far from ban-worthy.