They are surely setting the stage for it to happen on a near future. Impossible to say if it will be right away or maybe in 2016. Note that since the Eldrazi can travel through the Blind Eternities they could appear in a different plane other than Zendikar.
I believe, however, that a Return to <popular plane> is a good way to start the new block strutcture.
And sice it was Lorwyn that started the 2 sets per block thing we'll obviously get a Return to Lorwyn this year
My best guesses for <popular plane> are either Dominaria or Zendikar.
It would make sense. The fetches in Khans block would synergize well if they brought landfall back in RtZ, and it's likely that they will since it was a very popular mechanic that was flavored as having to do with the mana-rich nature of zendikar. Khans block is certainly setting the stage for a return since it's story is all about Ugin coming back, and even the supplemental set introduced Nahiri as a card for the first time and brought the story of the Eldrazi's entrapment to the front and center. It makes even more sense when you think about the change they're making to the standard format. What better way to introduce a big change than by simultaneously giving your audience something familiar to help ease the transition?
So yes, it does seem likely that the fall set will be Return to Zendikar, but it's still far from 100%. We just got new cards and lore for Ugin, Sorin and Nahiri, so having the next block also focus on them could be a bit much, and they may want to put a block in between now and then to keep us from getting a little bored of seeing the same characters again so soon. Especially since the blocks will be shorter which will allow them to speed up the story a bit from what we're used to. We know that Gideon has been looking for allies to fight the eldrazi but got sidetracked in Ravnica trying to stop the guilds from going into all out war, so it's certainly possible we'll have a block where he finds one or two new allies before the return.
While I've been firmly in the Zendikar is the Next Block camp for a while, one point has swayed me. They will want to print Sorin, Ugin and Nahiri (if she gets to be alive) when they do so, so it won't be just after cards of each of them have been released.
While I've been firmly in the Zendikar is the Next Block camp for a while, one point has swayed me. They will want to print Sorin, Ugin and Nahiri (if she gets to be alive) when they do so, so it won't be just after cards of each of them have been released.
Exactly. Whereas the grand story is being built towards another confrontation with the Eldrazi, I do not expect it to happen IMMEDIATELLY after the crucial player (e.g. Ugin) was brought back. That would be just waste of a buildup. I can imagine this line to continue, but not this fall. Next spring, maybe.
When they decided, which plane to show in fall 2015's big set, they must have had in mind, that this was going to be the first set in the new two black paradigm. They surely wan't this to be a safe success. Why not revisit probably THE most popular world - Zendikar?
Zendikar is hardly the most popular world.
Zendikar BLOCK was popular, mainly because JTMS and fetchlands. Limited-wise, it was lightning fast and not one of my favourite.
As you can see from KTK, fetchlands are not tied to return to Zendikar. Landfall will probably also not return. The world itself, while quite nice, does not compare to Ravnica or Innistrad.
Zendikar BLOCK was popular, mainly because JTMS and fetchlands. Limited-wise, it was lightning fast and not one of my favourite.
As you can see from KTK, fetchlands are not tied to return to Zendikar. Landfall will probably also not return. The world itself, while quite nice, does not compare to Ravnica or Innistrad.
People keep saying this an all I hear is "No, you're wrong about what you liked about this set: you only liked the value cards and didn't like the flavour at all." There is never any evidence presented to support this case, it's just people asserting that nobody really liked it, usually because they can't imagine other people liking things they personally didn't. MaRo has consistently described Zendikar as a very popular setting and I utterly reject the assumption that random outsiders understand WotC's market research far better than WotC themselves.
MaRo has consistently described Zendikar as a very popular setting and I utterly reject the assumption that random outsiders understand WotC's market research far better than WotC themselves.
True, but by the same merit, Zendikar is definitely NOT the most popular. Innistrad, Theros, and most importantly Ravnica, all performed far far better than Zendikar.
So far, they've come back to a familiar block 7 years after the first one. ( Mirrodin - 2003 + Scars of Mirrodin - 2010, Ravnica: City of Guilds - 2005 + Return to Ravnica - 2012 ). Zendikar was released in 2009 and 2015 is 7 years after the original Zendikar block.
Uh... Might want to double check that math.
2016 is 7 years after 2009.
Personally think a return to Dominaria would be the best thing to with the big changes to blocks and would bring us full circle particularly with the end to the Core Sets. I could see going to the plane that "started it all" so to speak to look for possibly the most powerful planeswalker of them all in Urza (or the Legacy Weapon) as a foil for not only the Eldrazi but for Nicola Bolas as well.
Zendikar BLOCK was popular, mainly because JTMS and fetchlands. Limited-wise, it was lightning fast and not one of my favourite.
As you can see from KTK, fetchlands are not tied to return to Zendikar. Landfall will probably also not return. The world itself, while quite nice, does not compare to Ravnica or Innistrad.
People keep saying this an all I hear is "No, you're wrong about what you liked about this set: you only liked the value cards and didn't like the flavour at all." There is never any evidence presented to support this case, it's just people asserting that nobody really liked it, usually because they can't imagine other people liking things they personally didn't. MaRo has consistently described Zendikar as a very popular setting and I utterly reject the assumption that random outsiders understand WotC's market research far better than WotC themselves.
Hey, hold the horses, bro. I said mainly, not ONLY. Don't throw me in one sack with these you describe, oversimplyfing things. Heck, you are one of the very few people who are here as long as me and I remember you almost from every rumor season, and if this was directed at me now, I feel it almost as insult.
You truly said : Zendikar is a very popular SETTING. Treasure hunters, traps, Indiana Jones, etc...but also because of overall higher power level. You cannot deny it. And I am not saying that people liked it ONLY because of that.
MaRo has consistently described Zendikar as a very popular setting and I utterly reject the assumption that random outsiders understand WotC's market research far better than WotC themselves.
True, but by the same merit, Zendikar is definitely NOT the most popular. Innistrad, Theros, and most importantly Ravnica, all performed far far better than Zendikar.
Thanks, 'nellos.
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Nissa appears out of nowhere in a core set. Then Sorin comes looking for Ugin in KTK. Then Nahiri and Ob gets big spot lights in commander. Now we have sweet Ugin back and alive again.
C'mon, this is simply too much build up, I don't believe this is all going nowhere. Maybe not next year but I'm pretty confident the next returning plane is Zendikar.
Imo there's no point in expanding the multiverse frontier with several new planes if they only show up once. I'm 100% in favor of returning sets. The only places I wouldn't like to revisit would be Theros and Lorwyn - not because I don't like then but because they seem somewhat limited in terms of setting.
The only places I wouldn't like to revisit would be Theros and Lorwyn - not because I don't like then but because they seem somewhat limited in terms of setting.
Not excited about it happening any time soon, but I would like to revisit Theros if for no other reason than to see if R&D can do an enchantment block right the second time.
Sure why not, it'll be nice to see spaghetti monster again. Soon Hasbro will demand they should have them transferred to the New Phyrexia plane. Then have the Eldrazi be infected and they can be summoned for Phyrexian mana and completely destroy magic.
Zendikar BLOCK was popular, mainly because JTMS and fetchlands. Limited-wise, it was lightning fast and not one of my favourite.
As you can see from KTK, fetchlands are not tied to return to Zendikar. Landfall will probably also not return. The world itself, while quite nice, does not compare to Ravnica or Innistrad.
People keep saying this an all I hear is "No, you're wrong about what you liked about this set: you only liked the value cards and didn't like the flavour at all." There is never any evidence presented to support this case, it's just people asserting that nobody really liked it, usually because they can't imagine other people liking things they personally didn't. MaRo has consistently described Zendikar as a very popular setting and I utterly reject the assumption that random outsiders understand WotC's market research far better than WotC themselves.
Hey, hold the horses, bro. I said mainly, not ONLY. Don't throw me in one sack with these you describe, oversimplyfing things. Heck, you are one of the very few people who are here as long as me and I remember you almost from every rumor season, and if this was directed at me now, I feel it almost as insult.
You truly said : Zendikar is a very popular SETTING. Treasure hunters, traps, Indiana Jones, etc...but also because of overall higher power level. You cannot deny it. And I am not saying that people liked it ONLY because of that.
MaRo has consistently described Zendikar as a very popular setting and I utterly reject the assumption that random outsiders understand WotC's market research far better than WotC themselves.
True, but by the same merit, Zendikar is definitely NOT the most popular. Innistrad, Theros, and most importantly Ravnica, all performed far far better than Zendikar.
Thanks, 'nellos.
My apologies, Barinellos is quite right that Quietschkuchen_Raupenkerl was also guilty of exaggeration and I'm sorry for misinterpreting you. However, Zendikar's power level is not relevant to this discussion; it's entirely possible for something to be popular for both reasons completely independently of one another and it's not necessary to examine the power-related popularity in order to discuss the flavour related popularity. So I'm sorry I assumed you were saying something you weren't, but this is why.
to look for possibly the most powerful planeswalker of them all in Urza (or the Legacy Weapon) as a foil for not only the Eldrazi but for Nicola Bolas as well.
The next block is called STOLEN SUNS, and in it we find Chandra, Nova Corsair captain of a Weatherlight-esque ship, plundering floating motes of dead worlds in a vivid starscape similar to Disney's Treasure Planet. She and her pirate crew collect the smoldering hearts of each plane as a mighty power source, and at the start of our tale, Chandra is exploring the remnants of an annihilated Zendikar.
Her crew spots another skyship, and the nova corsair attacks! On board is Tamiyo, Star-Tracer, who chartered the vessel so she could witness a world being destroyed. Chandra strands most of the crew on a barren rock in space, but she spares Tamiyo and invites her to join the crew to keep exploring.
The moonfolk sage knows Chandra is stranded; some force prevents them from planeswalking out of this gyre, but Tamiyo believes she has a solution. She offers to guide Chandra's ship to the center of the dying planes, which are being drawn into a naked singularity. There they might find not just a world but a star, and by stealing its power they can escape.
The pair fly between remnants of strange worlds, pillaging, exploring, from time to time accidentally helping the desperate survivors (and inspiring tons of fan-shippers). As they near the gyre, the ship's lookout spots a massive form blotting out the stars - Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre. No, not just blotting out the stars. Devouring them.
Tamiyo realizes the horrifying truth. They weren't just witnesses to Zendikar's destruction. They were pulled with it to the edge of the Blind Eternities, the home of the eldrazi. They flee back into the debris field, hoping to find some survivor in this whirlpool of shattered planes with the power to save them.
And that takes us to our second set, THE BLIND ETERNITIES, in which Ashiok, Cosmic Horror searches the gyre for a seemingly-lifeless plane of machines and nightmares: the original Phyrexia.
I will say that at least the "Zendikar is the next set!!!!" is more interesting then the "next set will include the 6th color purple!!" that seemed to proceed every set for a long time
When you think about it, Khans block is largely a continuation of the storyline started in Zendikar block.
- The backstory with Ugin, Sorin, and Nahiri sealing away the Eldrazi is first introduced
- Sorin appears
- Eye of Ugin names Ugin for the first time
- Sarkhan appears in the service of Bolas for the first time
- This experience disillusions Sarkhan about Bolas, setting up the turn against him we see in KTK block
The fact we've just revisited these story elements after a long break to me indicates that it'll be another delay of a few sets before we return to them again. I mean, are we really going to see Sorin and Ugin again so soon? More likely we'll jump to another setting and plot.
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When you think about it, Khans block is largely a continuation of the storyline started in Zendikar block.
- The backstory with Ugin, Sorin, and Nahiri sealing away the Eldrazi is first introduced
- Sorin appears
- Eye of Ugin names Ugin for the first time
- Sarkhan appears in the service of Bolas for the first time
- This experience disillusions Sarkhan about Bolas, setting up the turn against him we see in KTK block
The fact we've just revisited these story elements after a long break to me indicates that it'll be another delay of a few sets before we return to them again. I mean, are we really going to see Sorin and Ugin again so soon? More likely we'll jump to another setting and plot.
I agree but with the new structure a few blocks could be as early as next spring (2016) or fall 16.
The next block could be a return to Zendikar. The focus on the Eldrazi recently, ob-nixilis return in m15 and commander along with nahiri and sorin and Ugin showing up in ktk definitely are pointing to a return to zendikar soon but I think it's also likely the next plane we visit will revolve around finding nahiri or at least clues to where she went. She was crucial to stopping the Eldrazi the first time and if she's not dead she'll prolly be important again.
With the new structure starting this fall they could spend another block searching for/locating nahiri (blood/sweat fall 15) and then return to zendikar (tears/fears Spring 16) and that would be next spring. They could even wait till September 16 (lock/stock) block. That would be 3 blocks away in which time they could find nahiri and even do a return to the phyrexia plane/other old plane or go to a plane completely unrelated to the Eldrazi. Basically because the new structure allows faster story progression I think we'll see the Eldrazi within the next 18 months but that could still be a few sets away and in that time Nahiri will be the focus of at least one set.
When you think about it, Khans block is largely a continuation of the storyline started in Zendikar block.
- Sarkhan appears in the service of Bolas for the first time
- This experience disillusions Sarkhan about Bolas, setting up the turn against him we see in KTK block
The fact we've just revisited these story elements after a long break to me indicates that it'll be another delay of a few sets before we return to them again. I mean, are we really going to see Sorin and Ugin again so soon? More likely we'll jump to another setting and plot.
Sarkhan entered Bolas's service during Alara events. He was explicitly disillusioned with him even then. He was commenting on how Bolas "does not behave as Sarkhan would expect from a dragon". Among others, Bolas gave him four brainwashed Jund hellkites including Karrthus to wreak as much havoc as possible, and Sarkhan loathed the fact that the proud dragons (despite having not much of a mind to talk about) were enslaved and mind controlled like that.
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Re: the whereabouts of Nahiri. Post-Mending, wouldn't she no longer be immortal? I'm no expert on Kor physiology, but I don't think that she'd live this long past the Mending without some kind of help. If she is still alive, could she have transferred her spark and consciousness into some kind of stone construct? Or even a hedron? Or will she be outright replaced with another planeswalker, potentially introduced in the return to Zendikar or in the block immediately preceding it?
Fetchlands can appear anywhere. Whoa you mean misty rainforests occur on many planes? What is this?! And there's polluted delta's on many planes? Incredible. Absolutely incredible. Same with shocklands. Temple garden's can be anywhere surprisingly. Godless shrine is probably the most obvious one though with isolated chapel in the block preceding RTR (Innistrad.) Proof that these things can occur pretty much anywhere.
Yet, curiously, they have not appeared anywhere else BUT their respective native planes. Facts-at-hand.
I don't disagree it's probably what they intend to do, and overwhelmingly so. Just pointing out that the need to actually DO this at some point or else that line of argument is..well..speculative.
===
Me? I'm in the believer camp too but I'd do so on different basis.
1) M16 is last core set of all time...what a ABSOLUTELY FRIGGIN' HUGE OPPORTUNITY. (And remember how little, frankly, they did w/M15...it was very strange. I now think they planned to save it all up for M16 b/c they knew (we didn't yet) it would be the last one..)
2) Zendikar was the single biggest influx of new players in the game's history. I think these two factors coupled together...we are gonna see HUGE SPLASHY DRAMATIC marketing push next year...likely biggest thing any of us have ever seen. If ZEN's success first time is any indicator, and if the guys in the corner offices at Wizards have even the most basic inkling of 'hedging bets' I would strongly predict RTZ block is coming very soon. It is basically THE perfect 'elegant' choice.
Return to Zendikar may happen soon, but it won't be the end of the Eldrazi story. According to Nissa's story Ulamog is the only Eldrazi that anyone can confirm is still on Zendikar. I predict Sorin and Ugin will Return to Zendikar, work together with other planewalkers and trap Ulamog (I can see a big team up in M16 to do this, which would give them a reason to bring Jace and everyone else into the story), then say something to the effect of "We have to go get the other two," and the story will then continue on another plane. Or they may not even know where the other two are, so they just keep hopping planes.
The fact that Emrakul is being reprinted in MM15 supports something like this as well.
I believe, however, that a Return to <popular plane> is a good way to start the new block strutcture.
And sice it was Lorwyn that started the 2 sets per block thing we'll obviously get a Return to Lorwyn this yearMy best guesses for <popular plane> are either Dominaria or Zendikar.
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So yes, it does seem likely that the fall set will be Return to Zendikar, but it's still far from 100%. We just got new cards and lore for Ugin, Sorin and Nahiri, so having the next block also focus on them could be a bit much, and they may want to put a block in between now and then to keep us from getting a little bored of seeing the same characters again so soon. Especially since the blocks will be shorter which will allow them to speed up the story a bit from what we're used to. We know that Gideon has been looking for allies to fight the eldrazi but got sidetracked in Ravnica trying to stop the guilds from going into all out war, so it's certainly possible we'll have a block where he finds one or two new allies before the return.
Exactly. Whereas the grand story is being built towards another confrontation with the Eldrazi, I do not expect it to happen IMMEDIATELLY after the crucial player (e.g. Ugin) was brought back. That would be just waste of a buildup. I can imagine this line to continue, but not this fall. Next spring, maybe.
Zendikar is hardly the most popular world.
Zendikar BLOCK was popular, mainly because JTMS and fetchlands. Limited-wise, it was lightning fast and not one of my favourite.
As you can see from KTK, fetchlands are not tied to return to Zendikar. Landfall will probably also not return. The world itself, while quite nice, does not compare to Ravnica or Innistrad.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
People keep saying this an all I hear is "No, you're wrong about what you liked about this set: you only liked the value cards and didn't like the flavour at all." There is never any evidence presented to support this case, it's just people asserting that nobody really liked it, usually because they can't imagine other people liking things they personally didn't. MaRo has consistently described Zendikar as a very popular setting and I utterly reject the assumption that random outsiders understand WotC's market research far better than WotC themselves.
Uh... Might want to double check that math.
2016 is 7 years after 2009.
Hey, hold the horses, bro. I said mainly, not ONLY. Don't throw me in one sack with these you describe, oversimplyfing things. Heck, you are one of the very few people who are here as long as me and I remember you almost from every rumor season, and if this was directed at me now, I feel it almost as insult.
You truly said : Zendikar is a very popular SETTING. Treasure hunters, traps, Indiana Jones, etc...but also because of overall higher power level. You cannot deny it. And I am not saying that people liked it ONLY because of that.
Thanks, 'nellos.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
C'mon, this is simply too much build up, I don't believe this is all going nowhere. Maybe not next year but I'm pretty confident the next returning plane is Zendikar.
Imo there's no point in expanding the multiverse frontier with several new planes if they only show up once. I'm 100% in favor of returning sets. The only places I wouldn't like to revisit would be Theros and Lorwyn - not because I don't like then but because they seem somewhat limited in terms of setting.
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Not excited about it happening any time soon, but I would like to revisit Theros if for no other reason than to see if R&D can do an enchantment block right the second time.
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My apologies, Barinellos is quite right that Quietschkuchen_Raupenkerl was also guilty of exaggeration and I'm sorry for misinterpreting you. However, Zendikar's power level is not relevant to this discussion; it's entirely possible for something to be popular for both reasons completely independently of one another and it's not necessary to examine the power-related popularity in order to discuss the flavour related popularity. So I'm sorry I assumed you were saying something you weren't, but this is why.
Uh.... Both of the remains of those things are all in one place and he hasn't been doing too hot lately
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The next block is called STOLEN SUNS, and in it we find Chandra, Nova Corsair captain of a Weatherlight-esque ship, plundering floating motes of dead worlds in a vivid starscape similar to Disney's Treasure Planet. She and her pirate crew collect the smoldering hearts of each plane as a mighty power source, and at the start of our tale, Chandra is exploring the remnants of an annihilated Zendikar.
Her crew spots another skyship, and the nova corsair attacks! On board is Tamiyo, Star-Tracer, who chartered the vessel so she could witness a world being destroyed. Chandra strands most of the crew on a barren rock in space, but she spares Tamiyo and invites her to join the crew to keep exploring.
The moonfolk sage knows Chandra is stranded; some force prevents them from planeswalking out of this gyre, but Tamiyo believes she has a solution. She offers to guide Chandra's ship to the center of the dying planes, which are being drawn into a naked singularity. There they might find not just a world but a star, and by stealing its power they can escape.
The pair fly between remnants of strange worlds, pillaging, exploring, from time to time accidentally helping the desperate survivors (and inspiring tons of fan-shippers). As they near the gyre, the ship's lookout spots a massive form blotting out the stars - Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre. No, not just blotting out the stars. Devouring them.
Tamiyo realizes the horrifying truth. They weren't just witnesses to Zendikar's destruction. They were pulled with it to the edge of the Blind Eternities, the home of the eldrazi. They flee back into the debris field, hoping to find some survivor in this whirlpool of shattered planes with the power to save them.
And that takes us to our second set, THE BLIND ETERNITIES, in which Ashiok, Cosmic Horror searches the gyre for a seemingly-lifeless plane of machines and nightmares: the original Phyrexia.
- The backstory with Ugin, Sorin, and Nahiri sealing away the Eldrazi is first introduced
- Sorin appears
- Eye of Ugin names Ugin for the first time
- Sarkhan appears in the service of Bolas for the first time
- This experience disillusions Sarkhan about Bolas, setting up the turn against him we see in KTK block
The fact we've just revisited these story elements after a long break to me indicates that it'll be another delay of a few sets before we return to them again. I mean, are we really going to see Sorin and Ugin again so soon? More likely we'll jump to another setting and plot.
On 7/14/10, broke 1900 mark! <3 ROE.
I agree but with the new structure a few blocks could be as early as next spring (2016) or fall 16.
The next block could be a return to Zendikar. The focus on the Eldrazi recently, ob-nixilis return in m15 and commander along with nahiri and sorin and Ugin showing up in ktk definitely are pointing to a return to zendikar soon but I think it's also likely the next plane we visit will revolve around finding nahiri or at least clues to where she went. She was crucial to stopping the Eldrazi the first time and if she's not dead she'll prolly be important again.
With the new structure starting this fall they could spend another block searching for/locating nahiri (blood/sweat fall 15) and then return to zendikar (tears/fears Spring 16) and that would be next spring. They could even wait till September 16 (lock/stock) block. That would be 3 blocks away in which time they could find nahiri and even do a return to the phyrexia plane/other old plane or go to a plane completely unrelated to the Eldrazi. Basically because the new structure allows faster story progression I think we'll see the Eldrazi within the next 18 months but that could still be a few sets away and in that time Nahiri will be the focus of at least one set.
Sarkhan entered Bolas's service during Alara events. He was explicitly disillusioned with him even then. He was commenting on how Bolas "does not behave as Sarkhan would expect from a dragon". Among others, Bolas gave him four brainwashed Jund hellkites including Karrthus to wreak as much havoc as possible, and Sarkhan loathed the fact that the proud dragons (despite having not much of a mind to talk about) were enslaved and mind controlled like that.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
Yet, curiously, they have not appeared anywhere else BUT their respective native planes. Facts-at-hand.
I don't disagree it's probably what they intend to do, and overwhelmingly so. Just pointing out that the need to actually DO this at some point or else that line of argument is..well..speculative.
===
Me? I'm in the believer camp too but I'd do so on different basis.
1) M16 is last core set of all time...what a ABSOLUTELY FRIGGIN' HUGE OPPORTUNITY. (And remember how little, frankly, they did w/M15...it was very strange. I now think they planned to save it all up for M16 b/c they knew (we didn't yet) it would be the last one..)
2) Zendikar was the single biggest influx of new players in the game's history. I think these two factors coupled together...we are gonna see HUGE SPLASHY DRAMATIC marketing push next year...likely biggest thing any of us have ever seen. If ZEN's success first time is any indicator, and if the guys in the corner offices at Wizards have even the most basic inkling of 'hedging bets' I would strongly predict RTZ block is coming very soon. It is basically THE perfect 'elegant' choice.
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The fact that Emrakul is being reprinted in MM15 supports something like this as well.
Such Eldrazi.
Very Hedron.