As time passes and Modern grows, there will eventually come a time when all Modern bordered cards will be Modern legal. For now, only cards entering Standard are included in Modern. When do you think the floodgates will open and the Commander, Duel Deck, and all other cards will be allowed in Modern? When will we see Baleful Strix, Edric, Spymaster of Trest, and all their friends in Modern?
Is there a reason you think this is an inevitability? WotC has given every reason to believe that they do not want cards printed only in supplementals to be in the Modern cardpool.
Also, "everything with the Modern Border" includes reprints from things like the FTV sets and Judge Promos, which introduces a LOT of cards that they definitely don't want in Modern.
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Some non-modern cards will certainly be brought in, but only through being reprinted in a valid set (see Scavenging Ooze). They can even print a special Modern Masters set that includes new cards to the format. So there's where you'd see Strix and Edric, and a handful of their friends.
But to allow every card from Duel Decks, From the Vault, Commander, Premium Deck Series, even Judge promos? In the format you can't even play Preordain? Not gonna happen.
I have thought about this topic recently because of the release of Dack and conspiracy and think that it just poses a nightmare for them to figure out. They have done this before when they allowed p3k into the legacy pool, but as more and more sets get released in supplemental products, the logistics of this scenario becomes more and more difficult/unlikely. They would need to preannounce bans for some cards like sol ring and cross their fingers that the format doesnt degnerate into a few decks that rely on some more powerful legacy cards. Seeing that modern has had a rough start and is now finding its own stride in terms of participation/diversity, makes me feel like this wont ever be more than a possibility.
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Some items in the Supplemental products will eventually find a home in a Standard set, they aren't at the power level outside of what Modern can handle.
There are, of course, some issues, there are two main ones:
1. Flavor: Edric, Strix, Shardless Agent all need specific homes to show up again. I think they all belong in Alara, unless they are from unseen planes. Which means they can't show up in Expert Editions without the right plane, and all of them are multicolor, so until they start printing more multicolor in Core we won't see them again in great numbers.
2. Power Level: Baleful Strix and some of the other higher end supplemental cards need to be in a meta where they won't be the next format warping card. Powerful, but not out of hand, so they need to pick the right set pairing to have them show up again.
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As time passes and Modern grows, there will eventually come a time when all Modern bordered cards will be Modern legal. For now, only cards entering Standard are included in Modern. When do you think the floodgates will open and the Commander, Duel Deck, and all other cards will be allowed in Modern? When will we see Baleful Strix, Edric, Spymaster of Trest, and all their friends in Modern?
Never. We'd then have cards that are on the Reserved List (Phyrexian Negator, Mox Diamond, and a whole slew of Judge Promos) in Modern, which defeats the entire point of Modern. However, I could see some products like Commander eventually becoming Modern legal (with some bans of course) and Modern Masters sets having new cards or reprints that weren't Modern-legal and making them legal.
i think everyone did not understand the OP question. when will WotC make legal in modern all the new cards introduced in supplemental products like Edric, Spymaster of Trest? only new cards, not reprints like Sol Ring
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no, i got that, the answer is still probably never. look at my post history, I think the banlist should be 2-3 cards total and we should get a bunch of Legacy stuff, including Ring, but making stuff printed new in EDH is a really badidea. Ooze was a great idea, lots of fun, strong but not OP, but if you think it would not break Modern in a million tiny pieces, I have three letters for you. TNN. I rest my case
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i think everyone did not understand the OP question. when will WotC make legal in modern all the new cards introduced in supplemental products like Edric, Spymaster of Trest? only new cards, not reprints like Sol Ring
The OP did say "when allModern bordered cards will be Modern legal" and "the Commander, Duel Deck, and all other cards will be allowed in Modern?"
Duel Decks don't ever have "new" cards (except for preview cards from the next set, that soon become modern-legal anyway), so I disagree with how you are understanding the OP's post.
And even then, the answer is "No. Never." Those cards were created for a multiplayer, casual environment. Not to be balanced or playable in a Modern sanctioned play.
The ones that are playable in Modern without being useless (Command Tower), weird (Derevi, Empyrial Tactician) or broken (True-Name Nemesis) can eventually be reprinted in Standard set (again, like Scavenging Ooze was) or in a specifically Modern set like I suggested before.
Clearly if they added sets to Modern there would be waves of bannings and the ban list would look something like Legacy. In no way was I suggesting they add Sol Ring to Modern. I was asking when cards like Baleful Strix could be played in the main eternal format for newer players?
Sorry for posting such an open ended question. This was meant to ask "When will Modern inherit the mantle of Legacy?" I was thinking 10 years from now. Either Legacy will be too expensive to play for new players, or power creep will phase out all the old cards and Legacy will basically become Modern with a larger card pool. Thoughts?
Modern inherited the mantle of Extended some months ago. This is the slot it was meant to fill.
Being careful with what goes into the format trumps including all modern-faced cards they can. Being a stable format trumps being "the new Legacy".
So we won't get cards in modern that weren't designed with "this is also going to be played in Modern" in mind. It is that simple.
Being careful with what goes into the format trumps including all modern-faced cards they can. Being a stable format trumps being "the new Legacy".
So we won't get cards in modern that weren't designed with "this is also going to be played in Modern" in mind. It is that simple.
WotC still basically only tests standard and limited, so there isn't a whole lot of thought that can be given to the impact of cards from new standard sets. Each of these easily introduces far more cards and potential for meta-breaking problems than the tiny summer casual product, and even in the worst-case scenario they can ban (or even pre-ban) new cards.
Its more of an availability issue IMO. You don't want people gobbling up casual side products just for modern staples, even inadvertently produced ones. Its a problem happening now occasionally with legacy as is, but commander's own vintage-based legality, and vintage/legacy's billing as "the format where you can play (almost) all your cards", somewhat ties the formats together. There's at least a higher power floor and less people involved than would be for modern, particularly if the latter grows how wizards would eventually like it to, but it's already not an ideal relationship and no reason to pull modern into that mess if it doesn't need to be.
The only rationale for such a change would be if commander switched to modern-based legality. But even in a decade that seems unlikely to me. While ABUR duals and the like are going to get astronomically rare, there's tons of pre-modern cards seeing some EDH play that are in ample supply and will continue to be so in the foreseeable future, that make such a switch hard to justify.
With the complaining about the ban list now in Modern, I dont know how anyone could think cards made for the commandeer decks would be safe for Modern. The ban list would grow quite a bit, rather rapidly.
I don't see a lot of cards like that being let into modern, however, I do see Baleful Strix one day entering the modern card pool to FINALLY make Tezzerator a tier 1 deck.
There are some cards that I just don't see a problem with in Modern or even Standard, Would The Mimeoplasm bust Modern wide open? I don't think so, not with the amount of Graveyard hate that is STILL keeping Dredge out of view.
There are some Commander cards that I just don't think would even be viable in modern. Although, From the Ashes would be a great card to have, DIE TRON DIE!
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THe way you posted your OP, it is as if you hold this as true knowledge from a first hand source; I hope this is just lax-use of english, as many cards printed in modern frames would ruin the distinguishment between Modern and Legacy -- too many cards that could potentially break modern, including cards from special sets.
With the complaining about the ban list now in Modern, I dont know how anyone could think cards made for the commandeer decks would be safe for Modern. The ban list would grow quite a bit, rather rapidly.
Not necessarily. There aren't a huge amount of cards that would have to be banned. I can only think of Sol Ring, Lim-Dul's Vault, Brainstorm, Invigorate, True-Name Nemesis, Brainstorm, and Windfall. It would add many cards that would be playable in Modern like
With the complaining about the ban list now in Modern, I dont know how anyone could think cards made for the commandeer decks would be safe for Modern. The ban list would grow quite a bit, rather rapidly.
Not necessarily. There aren't a huge amount of cards that would have to be banned. I can only think of Sol Ring, Lim-Dul's Vault, Brainstorm, Invigorate, True-Name Nemesis, Brainstorm, and Windfall. It would add many cards that would be playable in Modern like
I really want to be able to play balance in a format with mox diamond in it as well. Plus we could play armegeddon, and wasteland, and stripmine. Mmh vintage lite.
You could also play Dark Ritual, Yawgmoth's Will, Necropotence, Tendrils of Agony, Brainstorm, and Ponder all in the same deck.
I really want to be able to play balance in a format with mox diamond in it as well. Plus we could play armegeddon, and wasteland, and stripmine. Mmh vintage lite.
You could also play Dark Ritual, Yawgmoth's Will, Necropotence, Tendrils of Agony, Brainstorm, and Ponder all in the same deck.
Nah man don't be crazy, ponder is banned.
True, true. Because Ponder is too good, but Brainstorm is perfectly safe!
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
I really want to be able to play balance in a format with mox diamond in it as well. Plus we could play armegeddon, and wasteland, and stripmine. Mmh vintage lite.
You could also play Dark Ritual, Yawgmoth's Will, Necropotence, Tendrils of Agony, Brainstorm, and Ponder all in the same deck.
Nah man don't be crazy, ponder is banned.
True, true. Because Ponder is too good, but Brainstorm is perfectly safe!
Obviously, because with brainstorm you have to put two cards back, so you have to draw them, because most decks in modern have no way of shuffling. Ponder doesn't make you put cards back so ponder is better right, right people?
Yeah I mean why would you draw three and put two of them back. Who would want that kind of card? It's not even card advantage!
Bad card is bad.
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Also, "everything with the Modern Border" includes reprints from things like the FTV sets and Judge Promos, which introduces a LOT of cards that they definitely don't want in Modern.
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Some non-modern cards will certainly be brought in, but only through being reprinted in a valid set (see Scavenging Ooze). They can even print a special Modern Masters set that includes new cards to the format. So there's where you'd see Strix and Edric, and a handful of their friends.
But to allow every card from Duel Decks, From the Vault, Commander, Premium Deck Series, even Judge promos? In the format you can't even play Preordain? Not gonna happen.
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There are, of course, some issues, there are two main ones:
1. Flavor: Edric, Strix, Shardless Agent all need specific homes to show up again. I think they all belong in Alara, unless they are from unseen planes. Which means they can't show up in Expert Editions without the right plane, and all of them are multicolor, so until they start printing more multicolor in Core we won't see them again in great numbers.
2. Power Level: Baleful Strix and some of the other higher end supplemental cards need to be in a meta where they won't be the next format warping card. Powerful, but not out of hand, so they need to pick the right set pairing to have them show up again.
Shoot, I'm buying up Hermit Druid and Survival of the Fittest right now...
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Never. We'd then have cards that are on the Reserved List (Phyrexian Negator, Mox Diamond, and a whole slew of Judge Promos) in Modern, which defeats the entire point of Modern. However, I could see some products like Commander eventually becoming Modern legal (with some bans of course) and Modern Masters sets having new cards or reprints that weren't Modern-legal and making them legal.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
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The OP did say "when all Modern bordered cards will be Modern legal" and "the Commander, Duel Deck, and all other cards will be allowed in Modern?"
Duel Decks don't ever have "new" cards (except for preview cards from the next set, that soon become modern-legal anyway), so I disagree with how you are understanding the OP's post.
And even then, the answer is "No. Never." Those cards were created for a multiplayer, casual environment. Not to be balanced or playable in a Modern sanctioned play.
The ones that are playable in Modern without being useless (Command Tower), weird (Derevi, Empyrial Tactician) or broken (True-Name Nemesis) can eventually be reprinted in Standard set (again, like Scavenging Ooze was) or in a specifically Modern set like I suggested before.
Sorry for posting such an open ended question. This was meant to ask "When will Modern inherit the mantle of Legacy?" I was thinking 10 years from now. Either Legacy will be too expensive to play for new players, or power creep will phase out all the old cards and Legacy will basically become Modern with a larger card pool. Thoughts?
Being careful with what goes into the format trumps including all modern-faced cards they can. Being a stable format trumps being "the new Legacy".
So we won't get cards in modern that weren't designed with "this is also going to be played in Modern" in mind. It is that simple.
WotC still basically only tests standard and limited, so there isn't a whole lot of thought that can be given to the impact of cards from new standard sets. Each of these easily introduces far more cards and potential for meta-breaking problems than the tiny summer casual product, and even in the worst-case scenario they can ban (or even pre-ban) new cards.
Its more of an availability issue IMO. You don't want people gobbling up casual side products just for modern staples, even inadvertently produced ones. Its a problem happening now occasionally with legacy as is, but commander's own vintage-based legality, and vintage/legacy's billing as "the format where you can play (almost) all your cards", somewhat ties the formats together. There's at least a higher power floor and less people involved than would be for modern, particularly if the latter grows how wizards would eventually like it to, but it's already not an ideal relationship and no reason to pull modern into that mess if it doesn't need to be.
The only rationale for such a change would be if commander switched to modern-based legality. But even in a decade that seems unlikely to me. While ABUR duals and the like are going to get astronomically rare, there's tons of pre-modern cards seeing some EDH play that are in ample supply and will continue to be so in the foreseeable future, that make such a switch hard to justify.
There are some cards that I just don't see a problem with in Modern or even Standard, Would The Mimeoplasm bust Modern wide open? I don't think so, not with the amount of Graveyard hate that is STILL keeping Dredge out of view.
There are some Commander cards that I just don't think would even be viable in modern. Although, From the Ashes would be a great card to have, DIE TRON DIE!
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Not necessarily. There aren't a huge amount of cards that would have to be banned. I can only think of Sol Ring, Lim-Dul's Vault, Brainstorm, Invigorate, True-Name Nemesis, Brainstorm, and Windfall. It would add many cards that would be playable in Modern like
Those cards would help solve a lot of Modern's problems (specifically there not being enough Control).
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Don't forget Toxic Deluge, that card would probably put Mono-B control to the top of Tier 1 strategies though...
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You could also play Dark Ritual, Yawgmoth's Will, Necropotence, Tendrils of Agony, Brainstorm, and Ponder all in the same deck.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
True, true. Because Ponder is too good, but Brainstorm is perfectly safe!
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Anything with a modern border goes. No ban list, but a restricted list.
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Yeah I mean why would you draw three and put two of them back. Who would want that kind of card? It's not even card advantage!
Bad card is bad.