I weep for Modern if the Allied Fetches are introduced.
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The major problem is that there's little competition outside of shocks and fetches and only one printing. I generally prefer there to be more open design on that level to allow for people to build different mana bases. With the new release cycle for lands, hopefully this is the case.
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The allied fetches in M15
The enemy fetches in the first set of the next Fall expansion.
I hope that they front load all the fetches into the first set of the block. I don't need 5 lands spread across 3 sets.
I suspect that Wizards will milk it for all it is worth and spread out any Fetchland release across an entire block. This would ensure maximum sales in order for people to acquire the Fetchlands. It's greedy, yes, but they're a business doing this would ensure successful sales of the set. Hell, the sets will probably suck anyway.
They stated that they will do duals as a full 10 cycle over the spread of a block from here on out.
Due to the fact they want to support modern, they HAVE to reprint fetches, no ifs, ands, or buts. They want a larger player base for modern, and fetchlands are integral to the modern format.
Sorry legacy players, but your onslaught fetches are going to be reprinted.
Some of you may think that you have made great mistakes in your lives, and perhaps you have. But let me ask you this.... did you ever play strip poker with two fat chicks and win?
If fetchlands are reprinted packs would be bought like crazy.
I won't want onslaught fetches in modern, though.
5 different fetchlands are enough to play most shock lands.
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Example: The player who's being controlled still chooses whether he or she leaves to visit the restroom, trades a card to someone else, agrees to an intentional draw, or calls a judge about an error or infraction.
If fetchlands are reprinted packs would be bought like crazy.
I won't want onslaught fetches in modern, though.
5 different fetchlands are enough to play most shock lands.
I dunno. They reprinted Shocks and, while not quite as insane as fetches, they were in high, high demand for Modern and Legacy players. Same for Thoughtseize, etc.
I'd be very happy to see a reprint in a block set. Both Zen and Onslaught. Quite frankly the Onslaught ones should have been in Theros.
I weep for Modern if the Allied Fetches are introduced.
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I weep for modern because they have to use shock lands instead of the original dual lands. Modern would be just fine with all 10 fetches. It would be fine with the ABUR lands too. What makes modern is the cards that use the mana.
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I weep for modern because they have to use shock lands instead of the original dual lands. Modern would be just fine with all 10 fetches. It would be fine with the ABUR lands too. What makes modern is the cards that use the mana.
The OG lands would give control a slightly better edge. On the other hand so would imperfect mana. IE no fetches. But we know that's not going to happen, so I personally am in favor of reprinting ONS fetches.
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His username on here is kirin, and if you want to know how to speculate correctly, ask him. He's been right on pretty much all of his specs, including those on his old channel, newlawstudent.
Is this the guy that sings little mermaid and is a brony?
Because his speculation skills can be gained by following like two people on twitter.
Nothing to write home about, but to the average youtube commenter I guess he is a genius.
Anyway, WoTC doesn't like shuffling in magic.
Many people don't like fetches even existing in modern. 10 fetches in modern would be just gross.
Wizards has also stated they are "scaling back" the power of dual lands, with RTR being a high point, to expect the fixing to be kind of weak for awhile after.
Zendikar fetches are a lock for MM2. 150%.
There is no current type of product to support the Onslaught fetches, but honestly, there is no need to reprint them, because they only 'help' legacy at this point.
I wouldn't be *surprised* if they reprinted fetches, but there are quite a few reasons against it IMO.
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Is this the guy that sings little mermaid and is a brony?
Because his speculation skills can be gained by following like two people on twitter.
Nothing to write home about, but to the average youtube commenter I guess he is a genius.
Anyway, WoTC doesn't like shuffling in magic.
Many people don't like fetches even existing in modern. 10 fetches in modern would be just gross.
Wizards has also stated they are "scaling back" the power of dual lands, with RTR being a high point, to expect the fixing to be kind of weak for awhile after.
Zendikar fetches are a lock for MM2. 150%.
There is no current type of product to support the Onslaught fetches, but honestly, there is no need to reprint them, because they only 'help' legacy at this point.
I wouldn't be *surprised* if they reprinted fetches, but there are quite a few reasons against it IMO.
Exactly this. The Modern mana bases are far too good as is, and adding allied fetches makes them better. You can argue that it doesn't matter that much, but just watch how games play out and how you have to play around certain nonbasic land hate cards, and you will realize that if you increase the flexibility of mana bases you shrink the number of other relevant cards in the format without increasing the power of other cards. You just make decks more tuned, and the metagame becomes more stale as less decks are relevant.
Leave Onslaught fetches where they belong, in Legacy, and reprint the Zendikar fetches in MM2. If you think there won't be a price impact, just look at the price impact on every card that was reprinted as a rare in MM1. They all took pretty serious hits. It was only the Mythics that weren't really effected.
Onslaught fetches can be reprinted in some other supplemental product, although in reality, they're not necessary for any "relevant" format.
Onslaught fetches can be reprinted in some other supplemental product, although in reality, they're not necessary for any "relevant" format.
Why reprint them at all then?
Printing them in some supplimental format won't reduce price or significantly increase supply. It'll just piss everyone off as that supplimental product will be unavailable except at jacked up prices.
Printing them in some supplimental format won't reduce price or significantly increase supply. It'll just piss everyone off as that supplimental product will be unavailable except at jacked up prices.
Reprinting them in a supplemental product does not increase demand at all, or very little, and does increase supply. They aren't reprinting them in a Standard set. If you think that they will, you are delusional after all they have said about loading screens in Magic. That only leaves supplemental products. Obviously Zen fetches will go into MM2, which will increase supply with an increase in demand as well. Prices will drop, although maybe only $20 or so for blue fetches and $10-15 for non-blue.
Any reprinting of Onslaught fetches will have little to no effect on demand because there is little to no possible increase in demand. The people that want them already want them, and the people that don't aren't going to get dragged into Legacy because they were reprinted because they still don't have duals. There may be a small increase amongst Commander players, but even that won't be much, as must of the demand is already from those players.
Unless the desire is to move the Onslaught Fetches to Modern, both fetchland sets make sense printed in supplemental products.
Reprinting the Zen fetches in a Standard Set means they will pretty much need to reprint the Onslaught fetches at the same time (unless Wizards tries being clever and prints a different Ally Color Land set to fill the Ally requirement of supporting all ten two-colors). But if they only desire is to increase supply then non-standard products still work.
Anyway, WoTC doesn't like shuffling in magic.
Many people don't like fetches even existing in modern. 10 fetches in modern would be just gross.
I don't understand how this logic has come about, I need sources for this, and I also want to ensure that it's interpreted as "We don't want Birthing Pod, Ponder, Fetchlands, and Preordain all together"
Because if Wizards has wanted to stop shuffling effects, they have failed on multiple levels in every core set.
Wizards has also stated they are "scaling back" the power of dual lands, with RTR being a high point, to expect the fixing to be kind of weak for awhile after.
I wouldn't be *surprised* if they reprinted fetches, but there are quite a few reasons against it IMO.
I don't see how Onslaught/Zendikar Fetchlands are overpowered in any sense of the word for any standard format. It's a painland where you choose what fixing you need once in a format with only basic lands as targets. Hardly anything overpowered whatsoever. Synergistic with multiple cards? Obviously yes. Overpowered? Only in Legacy and Vintage, even in Modern each Fetchland has an attached Price of Progress for color fixing.
Wizards has said that they are now supporting all ten colour combinations. So if they are going to reprint the Zendikar fetchlands then they're also going to include the Onslaught fetches as well.
Leave Onslaught fetches where they belong, in Legacy, and reprint the Zendikar fetches in MM2. If you think there won't be a price impact, just look at the price impact on every card that was reprinted as a rare in MM1. They all took pretty serious hits. It was only the Mythics that weren't really effected.
I'll take even a step further.
BAN fetchlands in Modern forever. Fetchlands + Shocklands should not be allowed in Modern at the same time.
It is the most obvious solution. I think that would do favors for the format, truth be told.
Yes, then you can sit back and watch people drop the format. Explain to me why having both Shocklands and Fetchlands is so terrible?
Actually, I'd love for you to explain how the loss of five lands would cause people to drop an entire format.
In fact, I'd argue that the ONLY reason to keep fetchlands is inertia. It will make some people angry that paid for them. But that happens all the time with other banned cards.
At the moment Fetchlands + Shocklands is simply too strong, particularly for a format that lacks the type of nonbasic punishment that Legacy does. Having those 2 lands is nearly STRICTLY BETTER than any other nonbasic land in the format. The existence of both of them singlehandedly undermines all other dual lands from having a chance of serious competitive play.
In addition, it allows mana bases to be too consistent. And for this reason, 3, 4, or 5 color decks are normal, and there is very little reason to NOT run them. It makes it easy for decks to run silver-bullet style cards without even worrying about the mana base. In effect, this nearly makes fetchlands necessary. Which, if I'm correct, is something that should not happen, particularly in a format that encompasses thousands and thousands of cards.
Add in the fact that 5 of them are missing actually makes this problem even worse, and hurts certain color combinations.
There is already more than enough manafixing in the format to allow for a diverse (and fair) format by disallowing the two lands from coexisting. Either one would be fine for the format. Both? Not so much.
You first. The burden of proof is on you after suggesting to ban 5 lands is good for Modern.
Already done. Look above.
I do have to admit that the suggestion that people would just up and quit an entire format because of 5 lands, actually did cause me to laugh out loud.
The truth is, that people would complain for a few weeks. The metagame would diversify, and entirely new decks would sprout. There would be less redundancy in terms of card selection, and eventually people would accept it as a necessary positive change for the format.
Maaaybe feasible, but I doubt we're going to see even three months of Shock + Fetch in standard.
Also if there's only 5 lands you can expect to see them in the large set of the block.
I'd bet money on deathrite shaman becoming the number 1 card in standard if fetchlands are introduced in M15. Namely the moment they were confirmed in M15 I would go out and buy every copy of deathrite shaman that I could because deathrite shaman + fetchlands? In standard? That would be INSANE for WotC to do.
But as for when onslaught fetches and zendikar fetches are reprinted I've said for a while now that they will be released next fall expansion probably like shocklands were/5 first set, 5 second set as I doubt WotC wants some in the 3rd set of the block as they would still be worth too much money a la dissension shocklands prior to return to ravnica being worth quite a bit more than ravnica/guildpact shocklands namely hallowed fountain. Imagine polluted delta in the 3rd set of a block, that just wouldn't be good at all pricewise.
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Actually, I'd love for you to explain how the loss of five lands would cause people to drop an entire format.
In fact, I'd argue that the ONLY reason to keep fetchlands is inertia. It will make some people angry that paid for them. But that happens all the time with other banned cards.
At the moment Fetchlands + Shocklands is simply too strong, particularly for a format that lacks the type of nonbasic punishment that Legacy does. Having those 2 lands is nearly STRICTLY BETTER than any other nonbasic land in the format. The existence of both of them singlehandedly undermines all other dual lands from having a chance in the format.
In addition, it allows mana bases to be too consistent. And for this reason, 3, 4, or 5 color decks are normal, and there is very little reason to NOT run them. In effect, this nearly makes the cards necessary. Which, if I'm correct, is something that should not happen. The fact that 5 of them are missing actually makes this problem even worse, and hurts certain color combinations.
There is already enough manafixing in the format to allow for a diverse (and fair) format by disallowing the two from coexisting. Either one would be fine for the format. Both? Not so much.
First off, if you think WotC could ban 5 of the most played, most expensive cards in a format thats already under fire for the lengthy bannedlist, without a major portion of players up and leaving, then you're delusional.
Second off, multicolored manabases are far from overpowered or too consistent. Blood Moon alone is enough to keep mana in check, but there's also Tec edge, Spreading seas, ghost quarter, molten rain, etc. And to be quite honest, I (and most players I know) see no problem with Modern having good manabases.
Regarding your complaints about the supposed horde of 4 and 5c decks, there are only 2 tier decks in the format that play 4c (Naya pod and Ajundi) and one rarely-played 5c deck (tribal flames zoo). Everything else is 3 or fewer colors. Hell, theres plenty of 2c anc Cx decks in the format.
Seriously, what's wrong with good mana?
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What makes you say this
The major problem is that there's little competition outside of shocks and fetches and only one printing. I generally prefer there to be more open design on that level to allow for people to build different mana bases. With the new release cycle for lands, hopefully this is the case.
Ambition must be made to counteract ambition.
Individualities may form communities, but it is institutions alone that can create a nation.
Nothing succeeds like the appearance of success.
Here is my principle: Taxes shall be levied according to ability to pay. That is the only American principle.
I suspect that Wizards will milk it for all it is worth and spread out any Fetchland release across an entire block. This would ensure maximum sales in order for people to acquire the Fetchlands. It's greedy, yes, but they're a business doing this would ensure successful sales of the set. Hell, the sets will probably suck anyway.
They stated that they will do duals as a full 10 cycle over the spread of a block from here on out.
Due to the fact they want to support modern, they HAVE to reprint fetches, no ifs, ands, or buts. They want a larger player base for modern, and fetchlands are integral to the modern format.
Sorry legacy players, but your onslaught fetches are going to be reprinted.
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The Onslaught fetches need to be reprinted, mostly to make them available in Modern.
The fact MaRo said, "One is clearly in the right and the other is plain wrong." mean absolutely nothing whatsoever.
They Zen ones will likely get reprinted at some point. The point is likely more distant than close.
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I won't want onslaught fetches in modern, though.
5 different fetchlands are enough to play most shock lands.
Example: The player who's being controlled still chooses whether he or she leaves to visit the restroom, trades a card to someone else, agrees to an intentional draw, or calls a judge about an error or infraction.
How about this?
I dunno. They reprinted Shocks and, while not quite as insane as fetches, they were in high, high demand for Modern and Legacy players. Same for Thoughtseize, etc.
I'd be very happy to see a reprint in a block set. Both Zen and Onslaught. Quite frankly the Onslaught ones should have been in Theros.
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I weep for modern because they have to use shock lands instead of the original dual lands. Modern would be just fine with all 10 fetches. It would be fine with the ABUR lands too. What makes modern is the cards that use the mana.
RIP Batman guy. I hope somebody picks up the slack now that you are gone. Sick children need their Batman.
The OG lands would give control a slightly better edge. On the other hand so would imperfect mana. IE no fetches. But we know that's not going to happen, so I personally am in favor of reprinting ONS fetches.
Is this the guy that sings little mermaid and is a brony?
Because his speculation skills can be gained by following like two people on twitter.
Nothing to write home about, but to the average youtube commenter I guess he is a genius.
Anyway, WoTC doesn't like shuffling in magic.
Many people don't like fetches even existing in modern. 10 fetches in modern would be just gross.
Wizards has also stated they are "scaling back" the power of dual lands, with RTR being a high point, to expect the fixing to be kind of weak for awhile after.
Zendikar fetches are a lock for MM2. 150%.
There is no current type of product to support the Onslaught fetches, but honestly, there is no need to reprint them, because they only 'help' legacy at this point.
I wouldn't be *surprised* if they reprinted fetches, but there are quite a few reasons against it IMO.
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Exactly this. The Modern mana bases are far too good as is, and adding allied fetches makes them better. You can argue that it doesn't matter that much, but just watch how games play out and how you have to play around certain nonbasic land hate cards, and you will realize that if you increase the flexibility of mana bases you shrink the number of other relevant cards in the format without increasing the power of other cards. You just make decks more tuned, and the metagame becomes more stale as less decks are relevant.
Leave Onslaught fetches where they belong, in Legacy, and reprint the Zendikar fetches in MM2. If you think there won't be a price impact, just look at the price impact on every card that was reprinted as a rare in MM1. They all took pretty serious hits. It was only the Mythics that weren't really effected.
Onslaught fetches can be reprinted in some other supplemental product, although in reality, they're not necessary for any "relevant" format.
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
Why reprint them at all then?
Printing them in some supplimental format won't reduce price or significantly increase supply. It'll just piss everyone off as that supplimental product will be unavailable except at jacked up prices.
How To Keep Your FOIL Cards From Curling: http://youtu.be/QTmubrS8VnI
The Best Deck Boxes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEwgLph_Pjk
The Best Binders: http://youtu.be/H5IauASYWjk
Reprinting them in a supplemental product does not increase demand at all, or very little, and does increase supply. They aren't reprinting them in a Standard set. If you think that they will, you are delusional after all they have said about loading screens in Magic. That only leaves supplemental products. Obviously Zen fetches will go into MM2, which will increase supply with an increase in demand as well. Prices will drop, although maybe only $20 or so for blue fetches and $10-15 for non-blue.
Any reprinting of Onslaught fetches will have little to no effect on demand because there is little to no possible increase in demand. The people that want them already want them, and the people that don't aren't going to get dragged into Legacy because they were reprinted because they still don't have duals. There may be a small increase amongst Commander players, but even that won't be much, as must of the demand is already from those players.
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
Reprinting the Zen fetches in a Standard Set means they will pretty much need to reprint the Onslaught fetches at the same time (unless Wizards tries being clever and prints a different Ally Color Land set to fill the Ally requirement of supporting all ten two-colors). But if they only desire is to increase supply then non-standard products still work.
I don't understand how this logic has come about, I need sources for this, and I also want to ensure that it's interpreted as "We don't want Birthing Pod, Ponder, Fetchlands, and Preordain all together"
Because if Wizards has wanted to stop shuffling effects, they have failed on multiple levels in every core set.
I don't see how Onslaught/Zendikar Fetchlands are overpowered in any sense of the word for any standard format. It's a painland where you choose what fixing you need once in a format with only basic lands as targets. Hardly anything overpowered whatsoever. Synergistic with multiple cards? Obviously yes. Overpowered? Only in Legacy and Vintage, even in Modern each Fetchland has an attached Price of Progress for color fixing.
I'll take even a step further.
BAN fetchlands in Modern forever. Fetchlands + Shocklands should not be allowed in Modern at the same time.
It is the most obvious solution. I think that would do favors for the format, truth be told.
Yes, then you can sit back and watch people drop the format. Explain to me why having both Shocklands and Fetchlands is so terrible?
Actually, I'd love for you to explain how the loss of five lands would cause people to drop an entire format.
In fact, I'd argue that the ONLY reason to keep fetchlands is inertia. It will make some people angry that paid for them. But that happens all the time with other banned cards.
At the moment Fetchlands + Shocklands is simply too strong, particularly for a format that lacks the type of nonbasic punishment that Legacy does. Having those 2 lands is nearly STRICTLY BETTER than any other nonbasic land in the format. The existence of both of them singlehandedly undermines all other dual lands from having a chance of serious competitive play.
In addition, it allows mana bases to be too consistent. And for this reason, 3, 4, or 5 color decks are normal, and there is very little reason to NOT run them. It makes it easy for decks to run silver-bullet style cards without even worrying about the mana base. In effect, this nearly makes fetchlands necessary. Which, if I'm correct, is something that should not happen, particularly in a format that encompasses thousands and thousands of cards.
Add in the fact that 5 of them are missing actually makes this problem even worse, and hurts certain color combinations.
There is already more than enough manafixing in the format to allow for a diverse (and fair) format by disallowing the two lands from coexisting. Either one would be fine for the format. Both? Not so much.
You first. The burden of proof is on you after suggesting to ban 5 lands is good for Modern.
Already done. Look above.
I do have to admit that the suggestion that people would just up and quit an entire format because of 5 lands, actually did cause me to laugh out loud.
The truth is, that people would complain for a few weeks. The metagame would diversify, and entirely new decks would sprout. There would be less redundancy in terms of card selection, and eventually people would accept it as a necessary positive change for the format.
I'd bet money on deathrite shaman becoming the number 1 card in standard if fetchlands are introduced in M15. Namely the moment they were confirmed in M15 I would go out and buy every copy of deathrite shaman that I could because deathrite shaman + fetchlands? In standard? That would be INSANE for WotC to do.
But as for when onslaught fetches and zendikar fetches are reprinted I've said for a while now that they will be released next fall expansion probably like shocklands were/5 first set, 5 second set as I doubt WotC wants some in the 3rd set of the block as they would still be worth too much money a la dissension shocklands prior to return to ravnica being worth quite a bit more than ravnica/guildpact shocklands namely hallowed fountain. Imagine polluted delta in the 3rd set of a block, that just wouldn't be good at all pricewise.
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First off, if you think WotC could ban 5 of the most played, most expensive cards in a format thats already under fire for the lengthy bannedlist, without a major portion of players up and leaving, then you're delusional.
Second off, multicolored manabases are far from overpowered or too consistent. Blood Moon alone is enough to keep mana in check, but there's also Tec edge, Spreading seas, ghost quarter, molten rain, etc. And to be quite honest, I (and most players I know) see no problem with Modern having good manabases.
Regarding your complaints about the supposed horde of 4 and 5c decks, there are only 2 tier decks in the format that play 4c (Naya pod and Ajundi) and one rarely-played 5c deck (tribal flames zoo). Everything else is 3 or fewer colors. Hell, theres plenty of 2c anc Cx decks in the format.
Seriously, what's wrong with good mana?
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