If you're on the play, and didn't draw or ramp, you're deck is 10 cards down, and you're at least 3 lands down. So you're looking at 20-21/50, about 40% to start at the top. And will waffle up or down based on how many lands you hit, and if your hand is landheavy as it is you don't need to hit extra lands.
You're right it's, in essence, an extra draw... but specifically an extra land draw. Compared to Chandra 4 which is an extra any draw, and Domri an extra creature draw. You draw your card for turn, then you see the next card and increase the chances of dropping a land by X/Y (X is the number of lands remaining in your deck, Y is the number of cards left in the deck) percent. The math will change throughout a game so I won't go into specifics. If you've already drawn a land (which happens if you play Courser and reveal a land after your landdrop, or play a land off the top to reveal a land) you increase your chances of hitting a land anyway, as if you see a land on the top of your library you can play that one, and keep the one you drew. Evening out your landdrops and constantly increasing the chances of dropping a land every turn. Even by less than 100% measures (which is a nature of the game, that most repeated events are not 100% certain).
Unless you want something where the landdrop is determined by revealing 3 cards, or 5, or 7 (which for 3 would be 1-(X/Y*X-1/Y-1*X-2/Y-2) X is the number of non-lands in your deck, Y is the remaining cards in your deck, with more reveals and a higher percentage result for more cards revealed per turn), this is a pretty effective landdrop support.
Landfall is in need of zero support. Decks without lands aren't exactly common. I mean they even print landfall without the ability word attached every few sets with no abnormal support. Sure, some cards are extra good with it, but it's mechanic you can just throw in anywhere because decks tend to play lands.
Landfall is in need of zero support. Decks without lands aren't exactly common. I mean they even print landfall without the ability word attached every few sets with no abnormal support. Sure, some cards are extra good with it, but it's mechanic you can just throw in anywhere because decks tend to play lands.
Zendikar had a lot of Landfall support, though (MaRo's currently in the middle of Zendikar card-by-card podcasts on Drive to Work and it comes up a lot). If I may, though, I think turning your argument around works better: "Landfall support" also supports regular decks, and there's therefore no reason to infer an impending return of Landfall.
Landfall has actually been printed in sets outside Zendikar/Worldwake, except without the ability word. Affinity has been printed with the keyword spelled out, too, just like how Jace 2 has scry and fateseal. Landfall is one of those abilities that really needs no support at all. It just rewards you for playing Magic normally. Sure, it's better with cards that dump a bunch of land into the battlefield, but it plays well by itself.
While non-standard releases do nothing for long term prices, they provide short term relief which is more desired anyways. For people currently playing the game, that is their chance to get in, and the players with the cards aren't losing long term value.
I think seeing fetchlands in Commander decks/MM2/Conspiracy/etc... is exactly what is needed.
While non-standard releases do nothing for long term prices, they provide short term relief which is more desired anyways. For people currently playing the game, that is their chance to get in, and the players with the cards aren't losing long term value.
I think seeing fetchlands in Commander decks/MM2/Conspiracy/etc... is exactly what is needed.
But if they do that, the Onslaught fetchlands still won't be Modern legal, since it has to get reprinted in a Standard block.
While non-standard releases do nothing for long term prices, they provide short term relief which is more desired anyways. For people currently playing the game, that is their chance to get in, and the players with the cards aren't losing long term value.
I think seeing fetchlands in Commander decks/MM2/Conspiracy/etc... is exactly what is needed.
But if they do that, the Onslaught fetchlands still won't be Modern legal, since it has to get reprinted in a Standard block.
True it won't make them legal but unlike TNN if they had two in each Commander deck would sell equally well and scalpers wont' be able to turn a profit off of it since they print till demand is met. Even if normal players buy one of each deck they'd know they had a decent amount of time if they wanted to buy more and them buying more would just put more back on the shelf so they wont screw other players over. And once wizards get them into a standard set they can get any they didn't get and now they'll be more in circulation and modern legal. Anyone wanting to play Legacy would also be able to use them as well, since all 10 are legal there.
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I just hope they reprint the fetch lands soon so people shut up about them already.
Aaron Forsythe said that they hadn't expected the spike and hadn't had plans to reprint them until the spike.
What he actually said was:
Quote from from "Gatheringmagic" »
Big question is - Fetchlands. People are complaining about these in Modern and you did such a great job with the shocklands reprints that the availability is everywhere. People can't complain about getting their shocklands; if you don't have your shocklands, you're not prepare for the format. But fetchlands? People didn't quite see that. Is it the same thing for you guys? Did you not see this happening? The demand of Modern? And eventually I'm sure that we are going to get one, if you don't want to say when, is this a concern for you guys?
Quote from from "Aaron Forsythe" »
Yeah. I mean, they did take off kind of out of the blue it felt like. Pretty recently. And obviously our turnaround time on doing anything is not instantaneous. So any plans that we have to put more fetchlands out there will take some time to execute on. But we are definitely aware of, you know, what cards people need to build decks to play Modern and what cards they're after. So we are going to do what we can.
So the "hadn't expected the price spike" is non-debateable, but the "no plans to print them before the spike" is a bit more open for interpretation.
I just hope they reprint the fetch lands soon so people shut up about them already.
Aaron Forsythe said that they hadn't expected the spike and hadn't had plans to reprint them until the spike.
What he actually said was:
Quote from from "Gatheringmagic" »
Big question is - Fetchlands. People are complaining about these in Modern and you did such a great job with the shocklands reprints that the availability is everywhere. People can't complain about getting their shocklands; if you don't have your shocklands, you're not prepare for the format. But fetchlands? People didn't quite see that. Is it the same thing for you guys? Did you not see this happening? The demand of Modern? And eventually I'm sure that we are going to get one, if you don't want to say when, is this a concern for you guys?
Quote from from "Aaron Forsythe" »
Yeah. I mean, they did take off kind of out of the blue it felt like. Pretty recently. And obviously our turnaround time on doing anything is not instantaneous. So any plans that we have to put more fetchlands out there will take some time to execute on. But we are definitely aware of, you know, what cards people need to build decks to play Modern and what cards they're after. So we are going to do what we can.
So the "hadn't expected the price spike" is non-debateable, but the "no plans to print them before the spike" is a bit more open for interpretation.
Would he have been so open if they were going to reprint them?
Would he have been so open if they were going to reprint them?
I don't know. I don't know what he would have said if they were in Huey, and I don't know what he would have said if they were scheduled to show up in Blood, and I don't know what he would have said if they aren't in any of the next few upcoming blocks and they are only now taking emergency action to throw a few of them into Planechase 3 for summer 2016 release.
It could be that they are a bit off on the horizon and that is what he meant to imply, but he (naturally) spoke in a vague enough manner that what he said could be true under any release plan for the fetches. They might be a bit off in the future yet, but my point is that to say 'Aaron Forsythe says "no fetchlands anytime soon"' or that "wizards hadn't had plans to reprint them before the price-spike", with no other explanation or disclaimer, seems to be stretching the truth. Some people may not have read the actual statement from mr. Forsythe, and from your post (and others like it), could believe that the statement made was much less vague than it actually was.
Would he have been so open if they were going to reprint them?
I don't know. I don't know what he would have said if they were in Huey, and I don't know what he would have said if they were scheduled to show up in Blood, and I don't know what he would have said if they aren't in any of the next few upcoming blocks and they are only now taking emergency action to throw a few of them into Planechase 3 for summer 2016 release.
It could be that they are a bit off on the horizon and that is what he meant to imply, but he (naturally) spoke in a vague enough manner that what he said could be true under any release plan for the fetches. They might be a bit off in the future yet, but my point is that to say 'Aaron Forsythe says "no fetchlands anytime soon"' or that "wizards hadn't had plans to reprint them before the price-spike", with no other explanation or disclaimer, seems to be stretching the truth. Some people may not have read the actual statement from mr. Forsythe, and from your post (and others like it), could believe that the statement made was much less vague than it actually was.
He would have said something similar to what was said at PAX. Something like "Wizards cares about supporting Modern and is trying to keep its prices down", or something similarly vague, if they were going to be reprinted in Huey-Dewey-Louie.
He would have said something similar to what was said at PAX. Something like "Wizards cares about supporting Modern and is trying to keep its prices down", or something similarly vague, if they were going to be reprinted in Huey-Dewey-Louie.
This is pure conjecture. We have no way of knowing how Wizards staff would or would not gauge their responses, especially when those responses come from different people. Trying to be vague and avoiding concrete spoilers can yield several kinds of responses from different people.
Besides, the point he is making, is that the thread title states Aaron said something he didn't actually say. He never said "no fetches anytime soon." He simply alluded to the process of how these changes take shape - and we have no way of discerning if that means they come in Huey or a later block/set.
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Sure, but people have been pointing out his tone/reaction when he was asked about the sudden spikes. It was described as "surprise". I don't think a "surprised" tone can be easily disguised.
It's one of those feelings/behavior/reaction that are the most telling and obvious. The reaction from the panel at PAX were reportedly similar.
He would have said something similar to what was said at PAX. Something like "Wizards cares about supporting Modern and is trying to keep its prices down", or something similarly vague, if they were going to be reprinted in Huey-Dewey-Louie.
Are you trying to say that he pretty much came out and said they won't be in Huey, therefore we can conclude that they aren't in Huey? Because if so I agree, but taking your statements literally it sounds like you're saying we should second guess everything he said and come to the conclusion that they won't be in Huey because he wasn't sneaky enough. I'm happy to take his comments at face value so I don't think they'll be in Huey, but I don't think you're going to find definitive proof of that in anything he said, certainly not in the way that he said it.
Although what he did say was to basically confirm that fetchlands will be reprinted as soon as feasibly possible, so I don't see why it matters that they won't be in Huey. Have some patience, people.
Sure, but people have been pointing out his tone/reaction when he was asked about the sudden spikes. It was described as "surprise". I don't think a "surprised" tone can be easily disguised.
It's one of those feelings/behavior/reaction that are the most telling and obvious. The reaction from the panel at PAX were reportedly similar.
Basically, the fetch question threw them off.
I sure hope that the "spike" he was talking about was the one that happened during innistrad block when misty rainforest and scalding tarn spiked to $40, or at the gradual increase from $40 to $60 over the course of the RTR block
DH 3/28: A "fixed" city of Brass to improve Block Constructed mana as requested by EVL. Was a cute Besieged City.
ID 3/28: I know we were concerned that the scry lands already point to 3 color decks instead of 2 color decks. I think a strong 5-color land even further exaggerates this.
DH 3/28: Guessing we'll have a lot of flexibility on this with the concept. FFL can figure out hopefully. Think we've wanted to avoid more 5c fixing, maybe by the third set it's okay for 6 months?
SPS 5/6/13: Super happy with what this is doing for block. Multicolor decks get another few months of goodness. I think it's worth it.
ID 5/7/13: It's strange that the 2 color decks need this more than the 3 color decks that can play 12 scry lands.
DH 8/16: Question for the general population: Is this supposed to be "Pay 1 life, T: ..." instead?
KD 8/20: Per Dave and Erik: Now pay life rather than deal damage, to match the land cycles we are most likely to reprint.
ID 8/29/13: Glad we settled on pay life.
Yeah. Of likely land cycles with paying life, basically just shocks and fetches. That said, the comment doesn't give a time frame. We already knew fetches were going to be reprinted. The comment would mean a lot more if it suggested a reprint in the near future.
I hope it isn't this, but I just realized it is possible they were planning Mana Confluence out before finishing Ravnica plans, (while trying to integrate sets) and they may have been referring to the shocklands... hope it is the fetchlands they are referring to though.
Edit: the key here is that they are saying it is the 'most likely' lands they'll re-print. That means we'll probably get the fetchlands before any other dual-land reprints that they don't already have planned as of when they designed Mana Confluence.
I hope it isn't this, but I just realized it is possible they were planning Mana Confluence out before finishing Ravnica plans, (while trying to integrate sets) and they may have been referring to the shocklands...
If "5/7/13" is the timestamp (July, 2013), they had been reprinted shocklands by that time already, so...
If you're on the play, and didn't draw or ramp, you're deck is 10 cards down, and you're at least 3 lands down. So you're looking at 20-21/50, about 40% to start at the top. And will waffle up or down based on how many lands you hit, and if your hand is landheavy as it is you don't need to hit extra lands.
You're right it's, in essence, an extra draw... but specifically an extra land draw. Compared to Chandra 4 which is an extra any draw, and Domri an extra creature draw. You draw your card for turn, then you see the next card and increase the chances of dropping a land by X/Y (X is the number of lands remaining in your deck, Y is the number of cards left in the deck) percent. The math will change throughout a game so I won't go into specifics. If you've already drawn a land (which happens if you play Courser and reveal a land after your landdrop, or play a land off the top to reveal a land) you increase your chances of hitting a land anyway, as if you see a land on the top of your library you can play that one, and keep the one you drew. Evening out your landdrops and constantly increasing the chances of dropping a land every turn. Even by less than 100% measures (which is a nature of the game, that most repeated events are not 100% certain).
Unless you want something where the landdrop is determined by revealing 3 cards, or 5, or 7 (which for 3 would be 1-(X/Y*X-1/Y-1*X-2/Y-2) X is the number of non-lands in your deck, Y is the remaining cards in your deck, with more reveals and a higher percentage result for more cards revealed per turn), this is a pretty effective landdrop support.
Zendikar had a lot of Landfall support, though (MaRo's currently in the middle of Zendikar card-by-card podcasts on Drive to Work and it comes up a lot). If I may, though, I think turning your argument around works better: "Landfall support" also supports regular decks, and there's therefore no reason to infer an impending return of Landfall.
I think seeing fetchlands in Commander decks/MM2/Conspiracy/etc... is exactly what is needed.
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Aaron Forsythe said that they hadn't expected the spike and hadn't had plans to reprint them until the spike.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
But if they do that, the Onslaught fetchlands still won't be Modern legal, since it has to get reprinted in a Standard block.
True it won't make them legal but unlike TNN if they had two in each Commander deck would sell equally well and scalpers wont' be able to turn a profit off of it since they print till demand is met. Even if normal players buy one of each deck they'd know they had a decent amount of time if they wanted to buy more and them buying more would just put more back on the shelf so they wont screw other players over. And once wizards get them into a standard set they can get any they didn't get and now they'll be more in circulation and modern legal. Anyone wanting to play Legacy would also be able to use them as well, since all 10 are legal there.
BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
What he actually said was:
So the "hadn't expected the price spike" is non-debateable, but the "no plans to print them before the spike" is a bit more open for interpretation.
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Would he have been so open if they were going to reprint them?
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
I don't know. I don't know what he would have said if they were in Huey, and I don't know what he would have said if they were scheduled to show up in Blood, and I don't know what he would have said if they aren't in any of the next few upcoming blocks and they are only now taking emergency action to throw a few of them into Planechase 3 for summer 2016 release.
It could be that they are a bit off on the horizon and that is what he meant to imply, but he (naturally) spoke in a vague enough manner that what he said could be true under any release plan for the fetches. They might be a bit off in the future yet, but my point is that to say 'Aaron Forsythe says "no fetchlands anytime soon"' or that "wizards hadn't had plans to reprint them before the price-spike", with no other explanation or disclaimer, seems to be stretching the truth. Some people may not have read the actual statement from mr. Forsythe, and from your post (and others like it), could believe that the statement made was much less vague than it actually was.
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
He would have said something similar to what was said at PAX. Something like "Wizards cares about supporting Modern and is trying to keep its prices down", or something similarly vague, if they were going to be reprinted in Huey-Dewey-Louie.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
This is pure conjecture. We have no way of knowing how Wizards staff would or would not gauge their responses, especially when those responses come from different people. Trying to be vague and avoiding concrete spoilers can yield several kinds of responses from different people.
Besides, the point he is making, is that the thread title states Aaron said something he didn't actually say. He never said "no fetches anytime soon." He simply alluded to the process of how these changes take shape - and we have no way of discerning if that means they come in Huey or a later block/set.
It's one of those feelings/behavior/reaction that are the most telling and obvious. The reaction from the panel at PAX were reportedly similar.
Basically, the fetch question threw them off.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
Are you trying to say that he pretty much came out and said they won't be in Huey, therefore we can conclude that they aren't in Huey? Because if so I agree, but taking your statements literally it sounds like you're saying we should second guess everything he said and come to the conclusion that they won't be in Huey because he wasn't sneaky enough. I'm happy to take his comments at face value so I don't think they'll be in Huey, but I don't think you're going to find definitive proof of that in anything he said, certainly not in the way that he said it.
Although what he did say was to basically confirm that fetchlands will be reprinted as soon as feasibly possible, so I don't see why it matters that they won't be in Huey. Have some patience, people.
I sure hope that the "spike" he was talking about was the one that happened during innistrad block when misty rainforest and scalding tarn spiked to $40, or at the gradual increase from $40 to $60 over the course of the RTR block
Quite frankly, if you print it, they will come- I would buy massive amounts of whatever set they come in.
I am already sitting on like 50 shocklands, got one rtr set sealed on the way and another that will be complete next week.
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Edit: the key here is that they are saying it is the 'most likely' lands they'll re-print. That means we'll probably get the fetchlands before any other dual-land reprints that they don't already have planned as of when they designed Mana Confluence.
If "5/7/13" is the timestamp (July, 2013), they had been reprinted shocklands by that time already, so...
Enemy colored Manlands.
We need both of these in modern.
...And Enemy Colored Fastlands.
I want all of these. Right now. Inside me.