Thoughtseize is a pretty powerful card as everybody should now by now.
Sphinx's Revelation is also pretty powerful and Wizards printed several hosers to it. That leads me to believe that they will do the same for Thoughtseize to keep it in check.
My guess is some kind of enchantment with "If a spell or ability an opponent controls causes you to discard this, put it onto the battlefield instead of putting it into your graveyard." like on Loxodon Smiter.
What do you guys think? Do you think they come up with something else or do you think they wont even print some kind of hate for it?
A 1-mana permanent that gives you hexproof
A 1-mana instant that changes the target of a spell that targets you
Specific anti-discard hate like Spiritual Focus or Pure Intentions
A card with a text like "if your opponent would choose a card from your hand or library, they must choose this card"
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As others have said already - Thoughtseize is a 1 for 1 except the caster loses 2 life. It is perfectly balanced already. If your entire hand depended on the resolution of 1 spell and you didn't know what you were up against you should have probably mulliganed anyways.
I don't think they need to print a hoser for thoughtseize or that they will. It's a fine card. But if they would I would speculate some kind of card that has to be playable regardless but with some kind of ability like "if a spell or ability an opponent controls causes you to reveal this card they lose 3 life"
Swan Song is actually pretty decent. It basically counters everything relevant in Mono-B Devotion. I dont know if giving them free creatures is not something you could regret later on though. Has to be tested...
It does not require any kind of hosing; in fact hosing it would hurt monoblack and we know they don't want that since they put Thoughtseize to help monoblack
This may be a stretch but they have done weirder things, but maybe a card that has the "if discard, play instead" clause with an added clause of something like, "If an opponent would make you discard a card, this card must be discarded." So if they thought seize you, they would be forced to choose that card and you get a small creature or spell.
Sphinx's Revelation scales to become a massive swing at pretty much any point late game.
Thoughtseize generally becomes worth less and less as the game goes on.
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This may be a stretch but they have done weirder things, but maybe a card that has the "if discard, play instead" clause with an added clause of something like, "If an opponent would make you discard a card, this card must be discarded." So if they thought seize you, they would be forced to choose that card and you get a small creature or spell.
Pretty much about what Wildfire393 said.
That would make discard useless. Thoughtseize my Delver? Nah, I'll card advantage you to death instead.
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That would make discard useless. Thoughtseize my Delver? Nah, I'll card advantage you to death instead.
They'd print it on something you wouldn't play though. Either something with no mana cost or more likely something overcosted. 2GW for a 2/2 with that ability doesn't seem broken.
They'd print it on something you wouldn't play though. Either something with no mana cost or more likely something overcosted. 2GW for a 2/2 with that ability doesn't seem broken.
Doesn't matter how they balance it, targeted discard would still be a crap shoot.
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"If you don't wear your seatbelt, the police will shoot you in the head."
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
I think that will be something like
3U Wizard 0/3
Flash
Whenever a spell or ability an opp control cause you to discard a card, that card gains "madness 0" ueot.
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I think that will be something like
3U Wizard 0/3
Flash
Whenever a spell or ability an opp control cause you to discard a card, that card gains "madness 0" ueot.
If they do, it will be another Gx creature with «If a spell or ability an opponent controls causes you to discard CARDNAME, put it onto the battlefield instead of putting it into your graveyard.»?
Thoughtseize isn't a win con but it sure is delicious t1 thoughtseizing mono black to see they kept thoughtseize, ultimate price, ultimate price, swamp, swamp, nykthos after a mull when you have an ashiok in hand as your wincon.
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I think Thoughtseize doesn't need any hate. I mean, it would if all competitive decks were playing it, but that's not the case. There are decks such as Mono Blue or Colossal Gruul which don't need to play Thoughtseize to be highly competitive. Moreover, I believe the reason for printing Thoughseize in Theros (aside from selling packs) was black being by far the worst color in standard, so come on, let it have some love.
Anyway, if they were to print some hate, I agree with what genini says. It should be something narrow, a crappy card to play it but a powerful answer to discard effects. Something like:
TS Hate - 2XY
Creature - Whatever
If a spell or ability an opponent controls causes you to discard a card and ~ is in your hand, you may discard it instead.
If you discard ~, put it onto the battlefield instead of putting it into your graveyard.
2/2
(With that rules text, do you think you could discard it to Duress? I do think so but I'm not sure.)
What about something like Regrowth? But it should be better early game, and less good lategame. So something like:
Regrowth Mark2
3G - Sorcery
Return a card from your graveyard to your hand. If you control 2 or less land, Regrowth Mark2 costs 3 less to cast.
The only worry I have is that it makes control really good, because getting back a Sphinx's Rev late game is pretty fine for them, but being a Sorcery it should be balanced I think. Perhaps it needs an extra 'pay 2 life to cast' to mimic Thoughtseize even more and have a more relevant drawback.
if they were to print some hate, I agree with what genini says. It should be something narrow, a crappy card to play it but a powerful answer to discard effects. Something like:
TS Hate - 2XY
Creature - Whatever
If a spell or ability an opponent controls causes you to discard a card and ~ is in your hand, you may discard it instead.
If you discard ~, put it onto the battlefield instead of putting it into your graveyard.
2/2
It should be worst than Loxodon Smiter, but I would guess something more in the line of this:
Hate Bear 2GW
Creature - Bear
If a spell or ability an opponent controls would make you discard a card, you may discard CARDNAME instead.
If a spell or ability an opponent controls causes you to discard CARDNAME, put it onto the battlefield instead of putting it into your graveyard.
Thoughtseize is an answer card in its own. Its what allows mono black to answer threats they normally can't handle on the field. However, its not what makes mono black win the game. Gray Merchant and Desecration Demon do that for you.
It'd be a vicious circle if they go print answer cards to answer card. I know its frustrating to get your good hand clipped down to mediocrity by a turn 1 Thoughtseize, but in no way does that mean you've lost the game.
They have printed countless answer cards for answer cards. Dispel is probably the best example, even if it can sometimes counter a near game ender like Sphinx's Revelation. Any combat trick, enchantment or equipment that gives hexproof, regeneration, shroud or indestructibility is also just an answer to an answer. Not that I think Thoughtseize needs to have a specific answer printed. It's "just" a 1 for 1. It's not unfair or degenerate in the slightest, it's simply powerful disruption.
That said, I wouldn't mind if they had a cycle of "can't be discarded" or Loxodon discard-proof cards that become key parts of some archetypes, like the counterproof cycle in RTR. It'd be nice to sometimes be able to keep a hand that is perfectly good to everything except a turn 1 TS.
It's impossible to hate on thoughtseize.
The only thing that came close is white leyline and even then you need to actually draw it in the opening.
Stuff like true believer will not work. Thoughtseize is black and black is removal heavy color.
The best anti-thoughtseize thing to do is print cards to enable some linear strategy with lots of functionally identical cards. Like Burn.
Currently small card pool does not allow that.
Why would you want to hate on thoughtseize, though? It's good to have different colors in spotlight each rotation.
Sphinx's Revelation is also pretty powerful and Wizards printed several hosers to it. That leads me to believe that they will do the same for Thoughtseize to keep it in check.
My guess is some kind of enchantment with "If a spell or ability an opponent controls causes you to discard this, put it onto the battlefield instead of putting it into your graveyard." like on Loxodon Smiter.
What do you guys think? Do you think they come up with something else or do you think they wont even print some kind of hate for it?
Maybe Leyline of Sanctity? But there are no such things as global enchantments on Theros, so maybe not.
Or maybe some card that you can play for free when your opponent discards it or another card in your hand. That's not the most elegant design, though.
A 1-mana permanent that gives you hexproof
A 1-mana instant that changes the target of a spell that targets you
Specific anti-discard hate like Spiritual Focus or Pure Intentions
A card with a text like "if your opponent would choose a card from your hand or library, they must choose this card"
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Something like that?
Swan Song is actually pretty decent. It basically counters everything relevant in Mono-B Devotion. I dont know if giving them free creatures is not something you could regret later on though. Has to be tested...
I could certainly see them printing something like this. Something like that would be good way to fight Thoughseize, Duress and Rakdos's Return.
I certainly would be a really efficient answer. I dont know what's going on in the eternal formats but the fact that this card is banned says enough.
Thoughtseize isn't a wincon like Revelation
It does not require any kind of hosing; in fact hosing it would hurt monoblack and we know they don't want that since they put Thoughtseize to help monoblack
Pretty much about what Wildfire393 said.
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Sphinx's Revelation scales to become a massive swing at pretty much any point late game.
Thoughtseize generally becomes worth less and less as the game goes on.
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That would make discard useless. Thoughtseize my Delver? Nah, I'll card advantage you to death instead.
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
They'd print it on something you wouldn't play though. Either something with no mana cost or more likely something overcosted. 2GW for a 2/2 with that ability doesn't seem broken.
Doesn't matter how they balance it, targeted discard would still be a crap shoot.
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
3U Wizard 0/3
Flash
Whenever a spell or ability an opp control cause you to discard a card, that card gains "madness 0" ueot.
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Anyway, if they were to print some hate, I agree with what genini says. It should be something narrow, a crappy card to play it but a powerful answer to discard effects. Something like:
(With that rules text, do you think you could discard it to Duress? I do think so but I'm not sure.)
Regrowth Mark2
3G - Sorcery
Return a card from your graveyard to your hand. If you control 2 or less land, Regrowth Mark2 costs 3 less to cast.
The only worry I have is that it makes control really good, because getting back a Sphinx's Rev late game is pretty fine for them, but being a Sorcery it should be balanced I think. Perhaps it needs an extra 'pay 2 life to cast' to mimic Thoughtseize even more and have a more relevant drawback.
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It should be worst than Loxodon Smiter, but I would guess something more in the line of this:
Creature - Bear
If a spell or ability an opponent controls would make you discard a card, you may discard CARDNAME instead.
If a spell or ability an opponent controls causes you to discard CARDNAME, put it onto the battlefield instead of putting it into your graveyard.
2/2
They have printed countless answer cards for answer cards. Dispel is probably the best example, even if it can sometimes counter a near game ender like Sphinx's Revelation. Any combat trick, enchantment or equipment that gives hexproof, regeneration, shroud or indestructibility is also just an answer to an answer. Not that I think Thoughtseize needs to have a specific answer printed. It's "just" a 1 for 1. It's not unfair or degenerate in the slightest, it's simply powerful disruption.
That said, I wouldn't mind if they had a cycle of "can't be discarded" or Loxodon discard-proof cards that become key parts of some archetypes, like the counterproof cycle in RTR. It'd be nice to sometimes be able to keep a hand that is perfectly good to everything except a turn 1 TS.
Imperial Sanctifier W
Creature - Human Cleric
You have hexproof.
0/3
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The only thing that came close is white leyline and even then you need to actually draw it in the opening.
Stuff like true believer will not work. Thoughtseize is black and black is removal heavy color.
The best anti-thoughtseize thing to do is print cards to enable some linear strategy with lots of functionally identical cards. Like Burn.
Currently small card pool does not allow that.
Why would you want to hate on thoughtseize, though? It's good to have different colors in spotlight each rotation.