Exactly. They don't want every Standard environment to simply be "Modern with a smaller card pool." Occasionally, that's fine. But every year? Power levels have to wax and wane over time in order to keep things dynamic and feeling different.
Of course, but given the thread topic, we aren't talking about Standard always being like that, we are talking about one set being like that, in the new shorter Standard rotation, so about 18 months I think?
Wouldn't quite have the depth of Modern, but might have similar creature valuation conditions.
But I don't think the best way of accommodating Lightning Bolt is to put good removal everywhere. If lightning bolt had been printed in Theros and was in Standard now, Courser of Kruphix, Sylvan Caryatid and Siege Rhino would all dodge it. But if the full arsenal of removal was packed in, then they'd all seem that much weaker.
You may still feel that it could be fun to have a super-removal heavy standard environment for a change, but I think it is unlikely that Wizards would make creatures that unplayable.
Exactly. They don't want every Standard environment to simply be "Modern with a smaller card pool." Occasionally, that's fine. But every year? Power levels have to wax and wane over time in order to keep things dynamic and feeling different.
Of course, but given the thread topic, we aren't talking about Standard always being like that, we are talking about one set being like that, in the new shorter Standard rotation, so about 18 months I think?
and it will happen at some point. Lightning Bolt and/or other premium removal will come back when the time is right. there is no argument there.
I believe what myself and the guy I quoted were saying was in response to "why not reprint lightning bolt? everybody likes it better than [the alternative]." and the point is, wotc doesn't base each constructed environment around what "everybody" prefers, rather what they feel is currently healthy and interesting for the game and it's longevity. if it were as simple as "just print what everyone wants you to print"; we would have fetchlands, abur duals, jtms, and tarmogoyfs in every set. not that I would complain, as i could finally stop spending money on this damned game. X)
It's just as likely to be Lightning Strike. Although, reprinting Lightning Bolt for the send off Core Set would be poignant.
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MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
I am not certain, as I am only a casual player, not a hardcore player, but why would anyone complain about a card that is very similar to lightning bolt being introduced into modern?
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“Those who would trade their freedoms for security will have neither.”-Benjamin Franklin
“When the people fear the government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.”-Thomas Jefferson
“A vote is like a rifle; its usefulness depends upon the character of its user.”-Theodore Roosevelt
“Patriotism means to stand by one's country; it does not mean to stand by one's president.”-Theodore Roosevelt
I am not certain, as I am only a casual player, not a hardcore player, but why would anyone complain about a card that is very similar to lightning bolt being introduced into modern?
Yes, it is. Look at the 3 damage spells that burn (one of the better decks in modern) plays now (set aside that tons of non-burn decks play play bolt and helix, and would probably happily play sorcery speed bolt 5-8, as nothing comes close to bolt for efficiency). Lava spike, rift bolt, shard volley, all of these are so much worse than chain lightning (and bolt) it's not even funny.
How about a reasonably powered sorcery spell? I'd like to see something new and exciting, but Volcanic Hammer is always that card that stands out as always "reasonable."
Hammerfoot 1R
Sorcery
Hammerfoot deals 3 damage to target creature or player. If that creature dies this turn, up to one target creature cannot block this turn.
Volcanic Hammer is clearly worse than Spear and Bolt but it is still a very strong limited card, so if anything is to be tacked on it had better be small.
4 damage for RR i think is too much, if you look at what it normally costs to get 4 damage to creature or player, you are looking at Char, Flame Javelin, Lightning Blast. Or what you get for RR, you are looking at Searing Blood and Searing Blaze.
Thing is, there is really a big step from 3 to 4. It's just 1 damage maybe, but it is also goes a long way to change a spell from reading "destroy target early-drop creature" to read "destroy target creature".
I agree that going from 3 to 4 damage is a quantum leap for a 2-cost spell. It's pretty much uncharted territory, unless you count conditional cards like Fireblast and Shrapnel Blast (both of which are incredibly strong in the right decks).
That said, it's not many years since Shock was the staple 1-cost burn spell, and noone would believe Lightning Bolt was going to be reprinted. The meta shifts, and creatures are becoming ever more powerful. Red needs tools to deal with them. I don't think a RR sorcery "Deal 4" would break the game. Powerful? Yes. Would it even see play in modern, except for in dedicated burn decks? I don't know. Busted in limited? Put it at rare.
Thanks to the higher-than-average toughness among creatures in Standard, I could see Lightning Bolt making a return for the last core set. It's not something I'd want as a staple, but along with Giant Growth it's probably one of the most fondly remembered of the Alpha Boon cycle. But of course it depends on whether the returning mechanic in M16 would accomodate a common burn spell; if Kicker's the returning mechanic then I'd expect to see Burst Lightning while if it's cycling I'd probably expect something closer to the middle ground between Flame Jet and Spark Spray. Can you believe we have not yet seen Shock with cycling added on?
Between those two, I'd sooner expect Kicker to make a return as it is frankly the more exciting mechanic. Cycling is neat as a utility mechanic but it doesn't have the essence of "pump mana into this and make it awesome" that Kicker does. And what better way to go out with a bang?
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MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Shock costs R. Shock with split damage ability, aka the "Fire" part of Fire // Ice, costs 1R. Electrolyze is "Fire" plus cantrip for 1UR. Therefore, a Shock plus cantrip for UR is a reasonable cost.
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
I wouldn't count on Volcanic Hammer appearing in the last Core Set; choosing a card that's worse than at least two staples could leave a bad taste in players' mouths, which a send-off most definitely does not want to do.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Of course, but given the thread topic, we aren't talking about Standard always being like that, we are talking about one set being like that, in the new shorter Standard rotation, so about 18 months I think?
Wouldn't quite have the depth of Modern, but might have similar creature valuation conditions.
You may still feel that it could be fun to have a super-removal heavy standard environment for a change, but I think it is unlikely that Wizards would make creatures that unplayable.
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
and it will happen at some point. Lightning Bolt and/or other premium removal will come back when the time is right. there is no argument there.
I believe what myself and the guy I quoted were saying was in response to "why not reprint lightning bolt? everybody likes it better than [the alternative]." and the point is, wotc doesn't base each constructed environment around what "everybody" prefers, rather what they feel is currently healthy and interesting for the game and it's longevity. if it were as simple as "just print what everyone wants you to print"; we would have fetchlands, abur duals, jtms, and tarmogoyfs in every set. not that I would complain, as i could finally stop spending money on this damned game. X)
I doubt they want a second bolt in modern.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
This was what I thought as well, but than again, a format that cant handle a bolt at sorcery speed? That would be laughable.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
Why not?
“When the people fear the government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.”-Thomas Jefferson
“A vote is like a rifle; its usefulness depends upon the character of its user.”-Theodore Roosevelt
“Patriotism means to stand by one's country; it does not mean to stand by one's president.”-Theodore Roosevelt
Isn't bolt like the most played card in modern?
I am not certain, as I am only a casual player, not a hardcore player, but why would anyone complain about a card that is very similar to lightning bolt being introduced into modern?
“When the people fear the government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.”-Thomas Jefferson
“A vote is like a rifle; its usefulness depends upon the character of its user.”-Theodore Roosevelt
“Patriotism means to stand by one's country; it does not mean to stand by one's president.”-Theodore Roosevelt
Because then you can play 8 bolts in your deck..?
Is that a bad thing?
“When the people fear the government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.”-Thomas Jefferson
“A vote is like a rifle; its usefulness depends upon the character of its user.”-Theodore Roosevelt
“Patriotism means to stand by one's country; it does not mean to stand by one's president.”-Theodore Roosevelt
Yes, it is. Look at the 3 damage spells that burn (one of the better decks in modern) plays now (set aside that tons of non-burn decks play play bolt and helix, and would probably happily play sorcery speed bolt 5-8, as nothing comes close to bolt for efficiency). Lava spike, rift bolt, shard volley, all of these are so much worse than chain lightning (and bolt) it's not even funny.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
Hammerfoot 1R
Sorcery
Hammerfoot deals 3 damage to target creature or player. If that creature dies this turn, up to one target creature cannot block this turn.
Volcanic Hammer is clearly worse than Spear and Bolt but it is still a very strong limited card, so if anything is to be tacked on it had better be small.
4 damage for RR i think is too much, if you look at what it normally costs to get 4 damage to creature or player, you are looking at Char, Flame Javelin, Lightning Blast. Or what you get for RR, you are looking at Searing Blood and Searing Blaze.
Thing is, there is really a big step from 3 to 4. It's just 1 damage maybe, but it is also goes a long way to change a spell from reading "destroy target early-drop creature" to read "destroy target creature".
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
That said, it's not many years since Shock was the staple 1-cost burn spell, and noone would believe Lightning Bolt was going to be reprinted. The meta shifts, and creatures are becoming ever more powerful. Red needs tools to deal with them. I don't think a RR sorcery "Deal 4" would break the game. Powerful? Yes. Would it even see play in modern, except for in dedicated burn decks? I don't know. Busted in limited? Put it at rare.
Between those two, I'd sooner expect Kicker to make a return as it is frankly the more exciting mechanic. Cycling is neat as a utility mechanic but it doesn't have the essence of "pump mana into this and make it awesome" that Kicker does. And what better way to go out with a bang?
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
Too strong, but I would like a RR - choose one, 2 damage to target creature or 4 to target player.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
"OH GOD MY BRAIN IS EXPLOADING AT HOW BAD THE ART IS ON MY OWN CARD"
-A friend's first impression of Ancestral Recall
10/10, I tapped.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
HA........................HAHA..........HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
But seriously please don't let it be that