there's a difference between lands etb and land plays. the rules change was, i believe, explicitly for closing some corner-case loopholes that were confusing and could make play weird
The rules change stops things like blinking azusa from getting you 3 more lannds (for example).
you may want to re-read nimbus maze, as maze+sacred foundry for example gives you access to red, white, and blue. the difference is that you dont have access to all 3 pairs of colors like you would if the maze were instead a glacial fortress
You are correct. Normally I'd be peeved about being wrong, but this just gives me more respect for Nimbus Maze's awesomeness.
The rules change stops things like blinking azusa from getting you 3 more lannds (for example).
yes, i was lumping things like this under 'corner case loophole' because 'may play additional lands each/this turn' is not exactly a common type of ability, as opposed to more traditional ramp spells
What about duals that penalize you for controlling other lands, rather than if you do not? Something like the opposite of the core/innistrad checks?
Remote Church - tap for W or B
Remote Church enters the battlefield tapped if you control an island, forest, or mountain.
On second thought, this is too powerful. They'd be significantly better than any of the current standard duals as early drops. Maybe a check to allow the tap? (Activate this ability only if you control no ....)?
Not to be of topic but I had posed this question in another thread and it got shuffled on top of a lot of other posts and I never got any hits, do you think birds of paradise will be reprinted in Theros, a 'god' themed set, as the irl nickname for BoP is "bird of the gods"?
What about duals that penalize you for controlling other lands, rather than if you do not? Something like the opposite of the core/innistrad checks?
Remote Church - tap for W or B
Remote Church enters the battlefield tapped if you control an island, forest, or mountain.
On second thought, this is too powerful. They'd be significantly better than any of the current standard duals as early drops. Maybe a check to allow the tap? (Activate this ability only if you control no ....)?
Wouldn't you just play ONLY lands like that with no basics...? And as far as modern, A+ for reducing the demand for fetches and shocks, but watch the hybrid lands skyrocket as decks only will consist of those drawbackless new duals and some hybrid lands.
Wouldn't you just play ONLY lands like that with no basics...? And as far as modern, A+ for reducing the demand for fetches and shocks, but watch the hybrid lands skyrocket as decks only will consist of those drawbackless new duals and some hybrid lands.
what if they were to have more restrictions then just that
Remote Church
~ for W or [/mana]b[/mana]
If you do not control a land, or if you control a land that taps for R , U or G, CARDNAME enters the battlefield tapped instead.
Now you are forced to either play a basic land, or if your in three colours, play a land that taps only for the 2 colours on the card in the first place.
EDIT: on second thought this incarnation is worse then the buddy lands. possibly only having the card as below, would be better. now its only really good for 2 colour decks, but isnt as bad a s the buddy lands.
Remote Church
~ for W or [/mana]b[/mana]
If you control a land that taps for R , U or G, CARDNAME enters the battlefield tapped instead.
These would never work, they're basically Alpha dual lands in decks that are running two colors. Way too OP.
fastlands are basically alpha lands, on the first two turns, under your logic.
you cant fetch these. no they're not anywhere as good. they are still good though.
fastlands are basically alpha lands, on the first two turns, under your logic.
plus you cant fetch these. no theyre not anywhere as good. they are still good though.
These essentially have no drawback besides not being able to be fetched. There's no reason to not use these lands if you're only playing two colors. If you need to fetch lands when you're only running two colors, you haven't built your mana base properly. Plus, with shocks and these in your deck, you would never need to splash any basic lands. You essentially have 4 shocklands and 4 dual lands with no drawback.
Any dual land works as an Alpha land if you can get around it's drawback. The issue is how hard it is to get around the drawbacks. In a two color deck, there is no drawback to a land that only cares about you making colors that you don't play anyway.
These essentially have no drawback besides not being able to be fetched. There's no reason to not use these lands if you're only playing two colors. If you need to fetch lands when you're only running two colors, you haven't built your mana base properly. Plus, with shocks and these in your deck, you would never need to splash any basic lands. You essentially have 4 shocklands and 4 dual lands with no drawback.
Any dual land works as an Alpha land if you can get around it's drawback. The issue is how hard it is to get around the drawbacks. In a two color deck, there is no drawback to a land that only cares about you making colors that you don't play anyway.
Im going to be honest, i really dont see the issue. it limits your power level, to only 2 colours, which in standard, means alot, since we just had a gold black. Yes it was RtR but, with current manabases, every deck is 3-4 colour monstrosities, outside of R/G aggro, which even then, splashes white, to be more consistent.
In modern, due to versatility, most decks are 3-4 colours again. Not every colour has all the tools, and as such, with fetches, and shocks available, 3 colours is no issue.
These lands are not original duals. They are not legacy/vintage playable.
If powring up 2 colour decks is all these landsa are going to do, with every format that may use them, being 3-4 colour decks all over, i don't have any kind of problem.
I don't think these lands will limit players. Sure, they're useful if you're playing two colors, but the increased range of good cards that are available by playing more colors seems superior to being able to run four good dual lands.
The problem is that players CAN get greedy with their mana bases in this environment, run more colors just to run better cards, and not suffer due to a lack of consistency. Seeing a card like this doesn't make me want to start playing two color. Two color decks are consistent enough as they are. You can't fight the greed, you just have to provide reasons to move away from what currently works the best.
It seems I was a little off when I was saying they were OP. I still think that a dual land shouldn't have such a lax drawback, but I feel even that laxness won't convince people to stop playing 3+ colors if they can handle it.
i choose thew wrong word with limit. more enhances you for using only 2 colours. When I saw the original idea, and i brainstormed my version, i wanted to give the player a leg up for not using as many colours as other decks. With buddy lands rotating, Standard becomes less consistent, which in turn, means that we may go back t having decks hat only want 2 colours.
By giving decks a consistency boost, and tempo boost, over decks that take more then 2 colours, i assumed the lands were good enough for use, if not in all decks. I dont want to see another standard, where i can play 24 lands, and none of them are basics, AND because im doing so, my deck is more consistent, then the one that is only 2 colours.
If we did have man lands, i think they would be clever in the sense that they would be "Titan" lands. Meaning, we would have a land to represent each titan.
Cronus
Oceanus
Hyperion
etc etc etc. I think that would be awesome. They could also do the same for the Giants in greek mythology.
Either in Theos or in the next commander precon. They would be nearly perfectly balanced with the new legendary rules and wouldn't mess with non-rotating formats because you would never run more than 1x of them. It would also allow Wizards to print another strong 10 land cycle without having another 2 years of all multicolored decks. The only real question left is whether or not they will have the basic land types.
Speaking of which, I always wished they'd experiment more with the basic land types. I would love (though never expect it to be done) to see this printed:
Hilly Forest
land - forest
tap, pay 1 life: add R to your mana pool
My other (completely wild) guess would be an EtB tapped "spell-land" cycle due to Wizards Man-crush on EtB right now (it would even fit in well with stoic resonator). Something like this:
Clever name for RG Land
land
EtB tapped
When ~ EtB, creatures you control gain haste until end of turn.
tap: add R or G to your mana pool
I'm actually fairly surprised that a cycle like this hasn't been printed yet. In Zendikar Block they showed us that they liked the general idea with the refuge cycle and the Piranha Marsh / bojuka bog cycles from Zendikar / Worldwake.
Finally, the fact that we're told that they don't work as well with shocks as the checklands do makes me think we will NOT be seeing a nimbus maze cycle though (or filters). Would enjoy seeing Grove Of Burnwillows cycle completed, but the UB one would be really pushed (as it care little for the opponents life total).
Either in Theos or in the next commander precon. They would be nearly perfectly balanced with the new legendary rules and wouldn't mess with non-rotating formats because you would never run more than 1x of them. It would also allow Wizards to print another strong 10 land cycle without having another 2 years of all multicolored decks. The only real question left is whether or not they will have the basic land types.
Speaking of which, I always wished they'd experiment more with the basic land types. I would love (though never expect it to be done) to see this printed:
My other (completely wild) guess would be an EtB tapped "spell-land" cycle due to Wizards Man-crush on EtB right now (it would even fit in well with stoic resonator). Something like this:
I'm actually fairly surprised that a cycle like this hasn't been printed yet. In Zendikar Block they showed us that they liked the general idea with the refuge cycle and the Piranha Marsh / bojuka bog cycles from Zendikar / Worldwake.
Finally, the fact that we're told that they don't work as well with shocks as the checklands do makes me think we will NOT be seeing a nimbus maze cycle though (or filters). Would enjoy seeing Grove Of Burnwillows cycle completed, but the UB one would be really pushed (as it care little for the opponents life total).
I really like this post. Also, guys, this fall will be the 20th year anniversary for magic, perfect time to print legendary duals as throwbacks. MAN IMMA EXCITED
If they don't reprint fetch lands (which they obviously won't), I hope they do something new. I don't want the future sight land cycle reprinted, or filter lands, etc. I'd be okay with enemy color fast lands, but that's about it.
But since they said it will make 3 color decks less viable, then I'd expect it to be kind of bad, whatever it is.
Mana will be more limiting and restrictive? Both of those words sound like fun!
Keep in mind that this only affects standard and limited. I mean, we have the shocklands in the format right now. Unless they decide to reprint fetchlands, filter lands, or god forbid, the ABUR duals, it's inevitable that the mana fixing only gets more restrictive from this point forward for standard and limited.
So basically, it can't get any better than it already is with shocklands without reprinting something that's proven to be just as good. It's unlikely they will reprint anything better than shocklands for a while.
The rules change stops things like blinking azusa from getting you 3 more lannds (for example).
You are correct. Normally I'd be peeved about being wrong, but this just gives me more respect for Nimbus Maze's awesomeness.
Yes but you'd have to have BOTH. Certainly not as powerful as the buddylands.
yes, i was lumping things like this under 'corner case loophole' because 'may play additional lands each/this turn' is not exactly a common type of ability, as opposed to more traditional ramp spells
Remote Church - tap for W or B
Remote Church enters the battlefield tapped if you control an island, forest, or mountain.
On second thought, this is too powerful. They'd be significantly better than any of the current standard duals as early drops. Maybe a check to allow the tap? (Activate this ability only if you control no ....)?
Rancored Elf will cancel your order if prices go up. Read about him and other shady vendors here.
My Trade Thread!
Wouldn't you just play ONLY lands like that with no basics...? And as far as modern, A+ for reducing the demand for fetches and shocks, but watch the hybrid lands skyrocket as decks only will consist of those drawbackless new duals and some hybrid lands.
what if they were to have more restrictions then just that
Remote Church
~ for W or [/mana]b[/mana]
If you do not control a land, or if you control a land that taps for R , U or G, CARDNAME enters the battlefield tapped instead.
Now you are forced to either play a basic land, or if your in three colours, play a land that taps only for the 2 colours on the card in the first place.
EDIT: on second thought this incarnation is worse then the buddy lands. possibly only having the card as below, would be better. now its only really good for 2 colour decks, but isnt as bad a s the buddy lands.
Remote Church
~ for W or [/mana]b[/mana]
If you control a land that taps for R , U or G, CARDNAME enters the battlefield tapped instead.
fastlands are basically alpha lands, on the first two turns, under your logic.
you cant fetch these. no they're not anywhere as good. they are still good though.
edited for coherence.
These essentially have no drawback besides not being able to be fetched. There's no reason to not use these lands if you're only playing two colors. If you need to fetch lands when you're only running two colors, you haven't built your mana base properly. Plus, with shocks and these in your deck, you would never need to splash any basic lands. You essentially have 4 shocklands and 4 dual lands with no drawback.
Any dual land works as an Alpha land if you can get around it's drawback. The issue is how hard it is to get around the drawbacks. In a two color deck, there is no drawback to a land that only cares about you making colors that you don't play anyway.
Im going to be honest, i really dont see the issue. it limits your power level, to only 2 colours, which in standard, means alot, since we just had a gold black. Yes it was RtR but, with current manabases, every deck is 3-4 colour monstrosities, outside of R/G aggro, which even then, splashes white, to be more consistent.
In modern, due to versatility, most decks are 3-4 colours again. Not every colour has all the tools, and as such, with fetches, and shocks available, 3 colours is no issue.
These lands are not original duals. They are not legacy/vintage playable.
If powring up 2 colour decks is all these landsa are going to do, with every format that may use them, being 3-4 colour decks all over, i don't have any kind of problem.
The problem is that players CAN get greedy with their mana bases in this environment, run more colors just to run better cards, and not suffer due to a lack of consistency. Seeing a card like this doesn't make me want to start playing two color. Two color decks are consistent enough as they are. You can't fight the greed, you just have to provide reasons to move away from what currently works the best.
It seems I was a little off when I was saying they were OP. I still think that a dual land shouldn't have such a lax drawback, but I feel even that laxness won't convince people to stop playing 3+ colors if they can handle it.
By giving decks a consistency boost, and tempo boost, over decks that take more then 2 colours, i assumed the lands were good enough for use, if not in all decks. I dont want to see another standard, where i can play 24 lands, and none of them are basics, AND because im doing so, my deck is more consistent, then the one that is only 2 colours.
Cronus
Oceanus
Hyperion
etc etc etc. I think that would be awesome. They could also do the same for the Giants in greek mythology.
Either in Theos or in the next commander precon. They would be nearly perfectly balanced with the new legendary rules and wouldn't mess with non-rotating formats because you would never run more than 1x of them. It would also allow Wizards to print another strong 10 land cycle without having another 2 years of all multicolored decks. The only real question left is whether or not they will have the basic land types.
Speaking of which, I always wished they'd experiment more with the basic land types. I would love (though never expect it to be done) to see this printed:
Hilly Forest
land - forest
tap, pay 1 life: add R to your mana pool
My other (completely wild) guess would be an EtB tapped "spell-land" cycle due to Wizards Man-crush on EtB right now (it would even fit in well with stoic resonator). Something like this:
Clever name for RG Land
land
EtB tapped
When ~ EtB, creatures you control gain haste until end of turn.
tap: add R or G to your mana pool
I'm actually fairly surprised that a cycle like this hasn't been printed yet. In Zendikar Block they showed us that they liked the general idea with the refuge cycle and the Piranha Marsh / bojuka bog cycles from Zendikar / Worldwake.
Finally, the fact that we're told that they don't work as well with shocks as the checklands do makes me think we will NOT be seeing a nimbus maze cycle though (or filters). Would enjoy seeing Grove Of Burnwillows cycle completed, but the UB one would be really pushed (as it care little for the opponents life total).
Edric | Skithiryx | Merieke | Talrand
--------------------------
Well except for pauper EDH
Garruk's Packleader | Inkfathom Witch | Gelectrode | Sigil Captain | Glider Barin | Sludge Strider | Paragon of the Ameshsa
I really like this post. Also, guys, this fall will be the 20th year anniversary for magic, perfect time to print legendary duals as throwbacks. MAN IMMA EXCITED
Rancored Elf will cancel your order if prices go up. Read about him and other shady vendors here.
My Trade Thread!
And that will be sweet...
WU Land
Plains Island
When ~ enters the battlefield, sac a land.
T: add W and 1 colorless
T: add U and 1 colorless
WWUGeist of Saint TraftUWW
UUBBLazav, Dimir MastermindBBUU
BRMalfegorRB
RGThromok the InsatiableGR
GGWWTrostani, Selesnya's VoiceWWGG
WBTeysa, Orzhov ScionBW
BGGGlissa, the TraitorGGB
GGUUPrime Speaker ZeganaUUGG
URJhoira of the GhituRU
RRWWAurelia, the WarleaderWWRR
UBRJeleva, Nephalias ScourgeRBU
so
{T}: Add {B} to your mana pool.
{1}, {T}: Add {U} or {R} to your mana pool.
But since they said it will make 3 color decks less viable, then I'd expect it to be kind of bad, whatever it is.
Modern Junk Primer
Legacy ANT Primer
L1 Judge
Though I'll put it in a small font.
Please stop hijacking my reply box.
Keep in mind that this only affects standard and limited. I mean, we have the shocklands in the format right now. Unless they decide to reprint fetchlands, filter lands, or god forbid, the ABUR duals, it's inevitable that the mana fixing only gets more restrictive from this point forward for standard and limited.
So basically, it can't get any better than it already is with shocklands without reprinting something that's proven to be just as good. It's unlikely they will reprint anything better than shocklands for a while.
Modern Junk Primer
Legacy ANT Primer
L1 Judge