If filterlands are too good of fixing for the current standard, and Theros is not a multicolor block, then there is no way tricolor lands, even legendary, would be printed in the next set.
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My guess is it's a new dual land. And restricts deck colors. Dual land is also different than a tri-land, and the article specifically said dual land.
Here's my take, it'd be a cycle, and I am only going to include 1 of. I think you could figure out the rest...
BG Embrace Land
Land
t: Add 1 to your mana pool. Embrace black, green - t: Add B or G to your mana pool. Activate this ability only if all colored nonland permanents you control are black and/or green only.
Not sure if it should have a clause in there that requires a minimum number of colored nonland permanents.
t: Add 1 to your mana pool. Embrace black, green - t: Add B or G to your mana pool. Activate this ability only if all colored nonland permanents you control are black and/or green only.
Not sure if it should have a clause in there that requires a minimum number of colored nonland permanents.
That's just my take, though.
So you only have access to colored mana if you control a permanent of that color? How are you supposed to cast a permanent of that color, then?
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I had just assumed that filter lands were in. Given the (speculated) legendary theme of theros, maybe legendary dual lands aren't as crazy as speculated?
Maybe an untapped style of the vivid lands?
Look forward to finding out about the new duals tho
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I believe we might be seeing the brothers of Nimbus Maze , in Theros, these work well with The Rav Duals and also promote how colors matter or are linked.
This thread is full of idiots... Lightning Bolt is NOT being reprinted.
Many times has a writer in Wizards said so, because of the plain and simple fact that it's too powerful for what it costs. x/3 creatures shouldn't be able to die at instant speed for one mana without a signifigant drawback. (like PTE giving you a land)
I absolutely guarantee that LB will not be printed in M10, and you can quote me on that.
I believe we might be seeing the brothers of Nimbus Maze , in Theros, these work well with The Rav Duals and also promote how colors matter or are linked.
I think the point is that those duals should work poorly with shocks, not the other way around. So nothing like checks (that check basic types), or fetches (that get them).
Again, I believe the lands we have in place for Theros block are wonderful, but they do not offer the same level of ease and power with three-color mana bases as the shockland/M10-dual-land combination.
See? To me this is a clear sign of no synergy or even anti-synergy. To quote myself
they probably have another mechanic that either:
1)punish you for playing too many of them
2)punish you for playing too much non-basics in general
3)work better with more basics in your deck
Point 1) could indicate legendary duals. If they printed Legenduals (as in, old duals with legendary supertypes), you wouldn't play 4 of them, so you could only add 1 or 2 in each deck without making your mana base uncomfortable. Theros is also a legendary block, so if it will ever happen, it could there.
Point 2) could indicate somethings like Fastlands that check on your non-basics. Something like (if you control another non-basic, enter into play tapped), could be possible. This would again be anti-sinergy with other duals, and would promote dual color decks over 3 color ones.
Point 3) could indicate, again, a cipt trigger that untap if you control at least a basic land, ala-checkland but not basic land types, just a basic land. This again would work in promoting more dual and single color decks with splash over fully fledged three color decks.
In today's Latest Development, Sam Stottard said that there would be a cycle of dual lands in Theros.
This gives me the impression that there will be 10 dual lands, not 5.
This seems to point at more interesting dual lands than the usual copy-pasted ones with only the words for the colours are changed:
This seems to point at those lands entering into play tapped, or having some sort of additional cost:
So, what do you expect? Manlands? Utility lands? Something more crazy?
Forgive my redundancy if this is already posted, I don't care to read 3 pages of posts before commenting on the thread starter. I believe the Theros Dual Lands are going to, almost certainly, be Enemy colored manlands(:symwb: :symug:), being that the article goes on about allied colors consistently getting more support in Standard over the years. Imo, something that hasn't been done yet, that will be a big hit, would be Manlands in enemy colors. It would answer every question we've been asking since the M10Buddylands are officially out in October, not to mention make since with Mutavault in M14. I can see. I'm sure we'll get 10, and quite possibly reprinting the Zendikar Manlands.
@Gyuzen64 If they come into play tapped, they won't be as good as the Shock-buddy combo, and if they're manlands, they will get played over the gates.
@Slowlands That is a ridiculously feasible design, while Scars is only 3 blocks back from Theros, an argument could be made on either side of "is it too soon?", but personally I think it's a likely possibility.
@Nimbus Maze It combos just fine with Shocklands, the article makes it pretty clear that they aren't as well synergized with Shocks as much as Buddies are.
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Don't misunderstand me. I am all for them reprinting all 10 fetches, but I don't think that they will do it until RTR rotates out of standard. After that I am sure that they most certainly will be reprinted. It makes no sense for Wizards not to reprint them. Both from a game play perspective and a financial one. I have almost an entire playset of all the fetches. In case anyone is interested. I just don't treat my hobbies as investments.
come theros rotation, the m10 dual lands are out, leaving the shocks and guildgates. they're going to have to really do something to replace the m10 duals well, as those were nearly perfect.
i suppose it's possible they might just say **** it and reprint the m10 duals in theros instead of the core block, but to me that doesn't make much sense... plus if they reprinted m10 duals, i have a feeling they'd have to also reprint the innistrad duals as well.
There's actually so much design room that's been left unexplored for lands so far. i could easily see a land that functions as an m10 dual, but always comes into play untapped and deals 1 damage to you on entry, but not again.
Don't misunderstand me. I am all for them reprinting all 10 fetches
it would be so bittersweet for me to have a manabase that could easily support phyrexian obliterator, and not have phyrexian obliterator.
but yeah, i agree. fetches/shocks in standard along with guildgates would be too strong. there would be literally no reason to run less than 3 colors.
I really doubt fetches are being reprinted in Theros. I believe they will, because the community is calling for it, just not with shocks in standard. It looks like they're intentionally trying to slow things down.
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They could be the Mirage CIPT fetchlands, extended out to a full 10-card cycle
Wow! I didn't even think of those. Very good call.
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Someone mentioned, that reprinting fast lands is a possibility. Well it is not, they can't do it, because they have Mirrodin names. They would have to reprint them with different names or only half of the cycle and I can't see that coming.
It was a modification, slowlands that come into play tapped unless you have 3 or more lands.
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What about a type of land that would encourage the play of non-basic land such as guildgates.
Theros R/B dual.
I.e. T: Sac (card name), search your library for any land producing red or black mana which is not a plains, island, swamp, forest or mountain.
Worded horribly but it would slow down the standard, retain the value of fetches and there's land destruction in M14 so who knows.
Edit: Keeping in mind that WotC have made it pretty clear that mana fixing is as good as its going to get and they're not looking to give us access like that in the short-term.
The new duals need not be completely in opposition to shocks, just not as easy to throw together with them with no thought whatsoever. I think that the previously suggested Legendary or Nimbus Maze lands.
The Legendary Duals would justify the rules change with interactions that let you tap a land for mana then play the other land, saccing the old one. Or maybe a Grandeur-type ability that would activate a utility effect or add more mana. They wouldn't have to make them the basic land types, which would separate them further from the original duals.
Nimbus Maze style duals would synergize better with the shocks, while not providing that extra power that you get from the M10. Buddy lands would get you access to another color, even if it gets delayed. A shock plus an M10 could get you 3 colors, while a Nimbus Maze wouldn't. This would encourage more 2-color deck strategies or at least more basic lands. Plus it'd be a good way to slip in a Maze in the Greek-inspired block without bringing to mind DGM.
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I'd like to see them get a bit creative and push a few boundaries. Something like
Legendary U/ Land:
T: Add 1 to your mana pool
T: Add UW to your mana pool. This ability can only be used to cast instants or sorceries.
Legendary R/ Land:
T: Add 1 to your mana pool
T: Add RG to your mana pool. This ability can only be used to cast creatures.
Sure it sort of pigeon holes dual colors to specific archetypes, but the colors themselves do a pretty good job of that all ready, plus they could always fix it in the dev process to not be so specific. Legendary Alpha Duals would be pretty terrible to be honest. You would never want to see a second one as it would be essentially one extra mana for that turn only, which means they wouldn't see too much play, and the idea has all ready been done to death.
Filters remain possible. They don't really promote 3 colour decks well. (This is true of both Shadowmoor filters and also the weaker Odyssey ones, or some variant thereof).
That said the article made me suspect these will not be reprints.
Unfortunately these lands would give the least help when you need it the most, so I suspect they wouldn't get designed.
Nice line of thinking though.
Actually, if the speculation about cards like Krontar the Dawnclad are right, these could actually be useful. Both have high colored cost, but are big creatures. If we're seeing a lot of cards with similar costs (IE: WWWW or BBBB), slowlands would actually be kind of useful for once.
@Elias what are you going to search for after October? Gates? If they make that a cycle in Theros, you won't possibly get anything else until M15.
@beardedshuffler Filters would fit for sure, however pain lands were torn up in the same article talking about Theros duals.
@Ume@6 Me three. Blitz it as boring as it is irritating.
@Ramenth slowfetches and (Krosan Verge) superslow fetches seem good. Mirage seem more likely though. Griselbrand, Avacyn, Geralf's Messenger, Omniscience are all rolling, Obliterator is gone. The big and color intensive big guys get cheated out anyway. Obzedat's Aid is going to keep that going after Rites is out. You really think we'll see more cards printed with that much colored cost? I'm not saying I think you're wrong, I'm just interested in seeing more about what's pointing you in that direction.
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Here's my take, it'd be a cycle, and I am only going to include 1 of. I think you could figure out the rest...
BG Embrace Land
Land
t: Add 1 to your mana pool.
Embrace black, green - t: Add B or G to your mana pool. Activate this ability only if all colored nonland permanents you control are black and/or green only.
Not sure if it should have a clause in there that requires a minimum number of colored nonland permanents.
That's just my take, though.
So you only have access to colored mana if you control a permanent of that color? How are you supposed to cast a permanent of that color, then?
I don't know, perhaps you will have to find another source of mana first?
There are other lands that require you to have a specific color before providing you with colored mana as well.
Maybe an untapped style of the vivid lands?
Look forward to finding out about the new duals tho
On one side:
T: Add W to your mana pool. Transform this land.
On the other:
T: add U to your mana pool. Transform this land.
They add two sources of mana but only one at a given time. And since it's a land maybe you can play either face first?
Edit: I wonder if they could have basic types... That might make them too good.
\/\/\/\/: Maybe kamigawa style flip cards would be less annoying?
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I think the point is that those duals should work poorly with shocks, not the other way around. So nothing like checks (that check basic types), or fetches (that get them).
See? To me this is a clear sign of no synergy or even anti-synergy. To quote myself
they probably have another mechanic that either:
1)punish you for playing too many of them
2)punish you for playing too much non-basics in general
3)work better with more basics in your deck
Point 1) could indicate legendary duals. If they printed Legenduals (as in, old duals with legendary supertypes), you wouldn't play 4 of them, so you could only add 1 or 2 in each deck without making your mana base uncomfortable. Theros is also a legendary block, so if it will ever happen, it could there.
Point 2) could indicate somethings like Fastlands that check on your non-basics. Something like (if you control another non-basic, enter into play tapped), could be possible. This would again be anti-sinergy with other duals, and would promote dual color decks over 3 color ones.
Point 3) could indicate, again, a cipt trigger that untap if you control at least a basic land, ala-checkland but not basic land types, just a basic land. This again would work in promoting more dual and single color decks with splash over fully fledged three color decks.
Forgive my redundancy if this is already posted, I don't care to read 3 pages of posts before commenting on the thread starter. I believe the Theros Dual Lands are going to, almost certainly, be Enemy colored manlands(:symwb: :symug:), being that the article goes on about allied colors consistently getting more support in Standard over the years. Imo, something that hasn't been done yet, that will be a big hit, would be Manlands in enemy colors. It would answer every question we've been asking since the M10Buddylands are officially out in October, not to mention make since with Mutavault in M14. I can see. I'm sure we'll get 10, and quite possibly reprinting the Zendikar Manlands.
@Gyuzen64 If they come into play tapped, they won't be as good as the Shock-buddy combo, and if they're manlands, they will get played over the gates.
@Slowlands That is a ridiculously feasible design, while Scars is only 3 blocks back from Theros, an argument could be made on either side of "is it too soon?", but personally I think it's a likely possibility.
@Nimbus Maze It combos just fine with Shocklands, the article makes it pretty clear that they aren't as well synergized with Shocks as much as Buddies are.
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Don't misunderstand me. I am all for them reprinting all 10 fetches, but I don't think that they will do it until RTR rotates out of standard. After that I am sure that they most certainly will be reprinted. It makes no sense for Wizards not to reprint them. Both from a game play perspective and a financial one. I have almost an entire playset of all the fetches. In case anyone is interested. I just don't treat my hobbies as investments.
i suppose it's possible they might just say **** it and reprint the m10 duals in theros instead of the core block, but to me that doesn't make much sense... plus if they reprinted m10 duals, i have a feeling they'd have to also reprint the innistrad duals as well.
There's actually so much design room that's been left unexplored for lands so far. i could easily see a land that functions as an m10 dual, but always comes into play untapped and deals 1 damage to you on entry, but not again.
it would be so bittersweet for me to have a manabase that could easily support phyrexian obliterator, and not have phyrexian obliterator.
but yeah, i agree. fetches/shocks in standard along with guildgates would be too strong. there would be literally no reason to run less than 3 colors.
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They could be the Mirage CIPT fetchlands, extended out to a full 10-card cycle
Wow! I didn't even think of those. Very good call.
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It was a modification, slowlands that come into play tapped unless you have 3 or more lands.
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For example:
Single color fetch
Land
tap, sac, get a montain
Huh.... They would actually work pretty well with shocks :).
Nice idea!
but they were useless in the moment shocks rotate....
Theros R/B dual.
I.e. T: Sac (card name), search your library for any land producing red or black mana which is not a plains, island, swamp, forest or mountain.
Worded horribly but it would slow down the standard, retain the value of fetches and there's land destruction in M14 so who knows.
Edit: Keeping in mind that WotC have made it pretty clear that mana fixing is as good as its going to get and they're not looking to give us access like that in the short-term.
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The Legendary Duals would justify the rules change with interactions that let you tap a land for mana then play the other land, saccing the old one. Or maybe a Grandeur-type ability that would activate a utility effect or add more mana. They wouldn't have to make them the basic land types, which would separate them further from the original duals.
Nimbus Maze style duals would synergize better with the shocks, while not providing that extra power that you get from the M10. Buddy lands would get you access to another color, even if it gets delayed. A shock plus an M10 could get you 3 colors, while a Nimbus Maze wouldn't. This would encourage more 2-color deck strategies or at least more basic lands. Plus it'd be a good way to slip in a Maze in the Greek-inspired block without bringing to mind DGM.
Legendary U/ Land:
T: Add 1 to your mana pool
T: Add UW to your mana pool. This ability can only be used to cast instants or sorceries.
Legendary R/ Land:
T: Add 1 to your mana pool
T: Add RG to your mana pool. This ability can only be used to cast creatures.
Sure it sort of pigeon holes dual colors to specific archetypes, but the colors themselves do a pretty good job of that all ready, plus they could always fix it in the dev process to not be so specific. Legendary Alpha Duals would be pretty terrible to be honest. You would never want to see a second one as it would be essentially one extra mana for that turn only, which means they wouldn't see too much play, and the idea has all ready been done to death.
That said the article made me suspect these will not be reprints.
Or Krosan Verge-type fetches.
Actually, if the speculation about cards like Krontar the Dawnclad are right, these could actually be useful. Both have high colored cost, but are big creatures. If we're seeing a lot of cards with similar costs (IE: WWWW or BBBB), slowlands would actually be kind of useful for once.
Except they still thin your deck out..... I've seen Legacy monored goblin decks with a playset of Scalding Tarn to do just that.
@ DR. Flamingo If I have a Watery Grave and Godless Shrine out, or simply a Hallowed Fountain, the Maze is effectively a Glacial Fortress. Like stated above, we aren't getting a mana fixer of that caliber with shocks.
@Elias what are you going to search for after October? Gates? If they make that a cycle in Theros, you won't possibly get anything else until M15.
@beardedshuffler Filters would fit for sure, however pain lands were torn up in the same article talking about Theros duals.
@Ume@6 Me three. Blitz it as boring as it is irritating.
@Ramenth slowfetches and (Krosan Verge) superslow fetches seem good. Mirage seem more likely though. Griselbrand, Avacyn, Geralf's Messenger, Omniscience are all rolling, Obliterator is gone. The big and color intensive big guys get cheated out anyway. Obzedat's Aid is going to keep that going after Rites is out. You really think we'll see more cards printed with that much colored cost? I'm not saying I think you're wrong, I'm just interested in seeing more about what's pointing you in that direction.
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