Show me one successful D&T list with 4 Hymns and 4 Thoughtseizes main and i'll show you four successful lists (Ad Nauseum Tendrils, High Tide, Esper Control, Junk Zoo) with 4 Thoughtseizes and no Hymns main. Hymn > Thoughtseize, I'll grant you. But BB is too untenable and they often only have one card you care about.
I'm not sure which is more implausible: finding Hymn in D&T, a mono-white deck, or finding Thoughtseize in High Tide, a mono-blue deck.
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Modern - RUG Delver RUG - Splinter Twin UR - Jund BRG
Legacy - RUG Delver RUG - Maverick GW - SI BG
Foreigning out SI, currently 33/75. The only thing better than a T1 kill is doing it with cards no one has ever heard of and/or can't read. If anyone has any of the usual pieces, PM me. I'm willing to buy/trade.
Except for people who either A) already own them, or B) don't want Thoughtseize in Standard. That IS a nonzero number of people you know.
I really didn't think M14 and MM were co-ordinated to this extent, especially when I saw Chord of Calling miss the cut and make the whole thing look haphazard, but I could be wrong.
Still haven't seen the real proof on Mutavault either, though that one makes more sense with Slivers being in the set.
I absolutely agree, but Modern Masters showed that they aren't afraid of bumping cards up to mythic for almost-purely price reasons (Bob/Goyf), so I could see it. It'd actually be black's FOURTH Mythic (Shadowborn Demon, Liliana, Rise of the Dark Realms) though, so it seems almost impossible.
If this were uncommon... I think people would be upset. But this makes the third pretty big money rare (along with Mutavault and Scavenging Ooze) reprint spoiled, which does kind of excite me for this core set for once.
Those were bumped because of their mystique. They were the two most desired reprints for Modern and are such a large part of Modern that being Mythic in a set called "Modern Masters" was reasonable. Thoughtseize doesn't have any special relation to "M14" and so it will not be Mythic.
Those were bumped because of their mystique. They were the two most desired reprints for Modern and are such a large part of Modern that being Mythic in a set called "Modern Masters" was reasonable.
The problem with putting 'staple' effects at mythic is that WotC frames the Mythic rarity as a tool that allows them to print cards that would otherwise be too bonkers or too niche in a Limited setting. Big awesome Commanders, Planeswalkers, and unstoppable bombs are the name of the game. Thoughtseize is a very different kind of card. Its just not a P1P1 card unless you're money drafting, especially compared to good removal like Go for the Throat or Path to Exile. From a drafting perspective, Thoughtseize could probably even be uncommon and it would be fine.
Its a darn shame that WotC bumped Bob, Clique, and 'Goyf to mythic, and it would likewise be a shame if they bumped Thoughtseize too. As players, we should be much angrier and much more vocal than we are. Moneygrabs are not acceptable if it makes sets worse to draft - and we should be on WotC's case about it.
So assuming it gets reprinted at the rare slot, just how far does it plummet? I can see it keeping Snapcaster-like value for its lifetime in Standard, unless it gets reprinted in an event deck.
I can only imagine how much more stores would have charged if this was printed along with Mutavault in MM. Very glad they went this direction.
The problem with putting 'staple' effects at mythic is that WotC frames the Mythic rarity as a tool that allows them to print cards that would otherwise be too bonkers or too niche in a Limited setting. Big awesome Commanders, Planeswalkers, and unstoppable bombs are the name of the game. Thoughtseize is a very different kind of card. Its just not a P1P1 card unless you're money drafting, especially compared to good removal like Go for the Throat or Path to Exile. From a drafting perspective, Thoughtseize could probably even be uncommon and it would be fine.
Its a darn shame that WotC bumped Bob, Clique, and 'Goyf to mythic, and it would likewise be a shame if they bumped Thoughtseize too. As players, we should be much angrier and much more vocal than we are. Moneygrabs are not acceptable if it makes sets worse to draft - and we should be on WotC's case about it.
I'm just annoyed because the staples I need (goyf, bob) were printed at mythic in a severely underprinted set, causing the price to not budge at all, while the staples that I already shelled out my hard-earned cash for (mutavault, thoughtseize) are going to have their prices completely tanked if they are printed as a core set rare. In the big picture, I want cards to be more accessible and more people to be able to play because it's better for the game, but I'd rather they just do it across the board. If my Thoughtseizes and Mutavaults dropped to $5, but Bobs dropped to $20 and Goyfs to $30, I'd be totally ok with it.
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Hipsters of the Coast
My articles go up every Thursday at midnight (EST). They're usually about Legacy, but I'll occasionally write about Standard or Modern.
My Twitch
I typically stream 2-3 Legacy dailies per week. These are my most common times: Sun 8:30pm EST, Tue 10:30pm EST, Wed 8:30pm EST
11pm EST on weeknights will be my most common time, for now, but here's hoping that WotC goes back to the staggered schedule!
It would massively increase the supply, but also massively increase the demand because standard is the biggest format
Taking into account the money grubbing nature of the evil overlords who control the fiscal aspects of this game, I could easily see it being a $40 card while it's in standard even with a core set reprint
If it's mythic, I could definitely see it. Even at rare it's possible, since everyone will be hunting for playsets and investors will buy up stock when they think it's the price has bottomed. Should be interesting to follow, regardless. Either way, a reprint in a normal set is great news and a step in the right direction.
I'm just annoyed because the staples I need (goyf, bob) were printed at mythic in a severely underprinted set, causing the price to not budge at all, while the staples that I already shelled out my hard-earned cash for (mutavault, thoughtseize) are going to have their prices completely tanked if they are printed as a core set rare. In the big picture, I want cards to be more accessible and more people to be able to play because it's better for the game, but I'd rather they just do it across the board. If my Thoughtseizes and Mutavaults dropped to $5, but Bobs dropped to $20 and Goyfs to $30, I'd be totally ok with it.
Seen as you bring up snapcaster - isn't it a little frightning to have such a cheap, splashy and powerful card with snappy in standard at the same time? It isnt long though so I dont mind!
It's probably going to have far less impact on price than if it were printed in the fall set.
Right now the desirable cards from M14 are...
Thoughtseize
Scavenging Ooze
Mutavault
...the end.
Hardly something to cause a massive buying spree, there.
With M14 not containing any mana fixing either, instead of the usual 5 rare lands, it may well end up representing a true low point when it comes to selling packs.
Glad someone else pointed this out. The fact that the mythics in M14 are looking pretty mediocre doesn't bode well for any one of these 3 cards selling for a reduced price. I'm with you in that I feel like they are the only cards that people are going to want from this set. (Unless something amazing shows up pretty fast)
After a mega-dissapointing set thus far, Thoughtseize will have to be in to make me even consider playing it, even with Mutavault and Ooze. If it's mythic, I'll be very unhappy.
A decent Garruk and Chandra would also be nice after confirmation we are getting 3 more junk walkers.
I have serious doubts that Thoughtseize will be reprinted in M14. Maybe sometime in the Theros block, but not in a set that will be in Standard with Snapcaster, even if it's only for 2 months. As for the lands question, filters I can see, or maybe the Onslaught fetches (if only to get all ten color pairs into Modern).
I've never understood why Magic doesn't act like almost every other collectible in the world.
Comic books get reprinted all the time. Baseball/basketball cards get reprinted. Books get reprinted. Even guitars, or cars or almost anything people collect get reissued.
When any collectible comes around, the price of the original run - the first printing of a comic book, the first edition of a book - is the one that maintains value.
Action Comics #1 (First printing) just auctioned for $175,000. You can find a reprint of the exact same issue for 20 bucks or less on ebay.
What I'm saying is, for some reason, companies like SCG which basically set the prices of cards is doing it all wrong and are partially to blame for things like the Reserved List. And I'll tell you why: If original printing of cards maintained their value but the reprints were seen as "less valuable," everyone would be happy.
You've got an RTR Shockland? Big deal. Everyone has one of those now. Try finding an original, mint condition Ravnica one.
Collectors will be happy because their original printing would still be worth $35-40. The reprints could be valued at a much more affordable $10.
And while this is the case to an extent - Guildpact Stomping Ground goes for $18 while Gatecrash Stomping Ground goes for $11 - if they simply maintained the values of the original print runs while decreasing the value of the reprints, everyone would be happier.
Why is the Reserved List still around? Because WotC made a promise to the collectors that they wouldn't decrease the value of their collectable. But a reprint in a later edition should have zero baring on whether you have the version from the original print run.
"Here's my M15 Tundra."
"Cool beans. Mine's from Beta."
As a player, I'm happy to play with the card. But as a collector, reprinting it in M15 should have NO BARRING on the price of my original Beta version. My Beta Tundra should maintain it's $1000 price tag 'cause it's still just as bloody hard to find a Beta version of the card regardless of reprint.
That's what the whole idea of "collecting" should be: To collect something because (A) you like collecting that particular thing and (B) because you're hoping it is one day worth something.
The problem is that stores like SCG just want to make money. When a reprint comes out, they just lower the price of the original versions to sell off more copies. That shouldn't be happening. If this were truly a "collectible," the prices wouldn't decrease. It's not the original printing. It's basically the stores that are warping the idea of this being a "collectable" game by determining what the value of cards should be on a day by day basis.
I'm not impressed when people break out RTR shocks. I am impressed when people break out Ravnica Shocks. Those are harder to get. They SHOULD be worth more. If Magic actually acted like every other collectable out there, the idea of reprints really wouldn't be a problem.
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I am suspicious. There's no way a person could know something was coming in "one of the next two blocks" unless they're really inside.
No because Exalted.
Have all of them.
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You mean Mind Twist isn't the best discard spell? It's ban for a reason.
My cube
My cube on Cube tutor
I'm OP_Forever. I'll be putting this in my signature for a while so everyone know I change my nickname.
Cardfight Capital Name-Code Jordan
Duleing Network Name- Planeswalker-JC
CGC Name- Jordan, Lich Lord
1-Trying to Simic Charm Daes Geist of Saint Traft...while playing Bant Hexproof [6/13/13]
Best is also pretty subjective. Because in cube, Mind Twist would like a word with all of you.
I'm not sure which is more implausible: finding Hymn in D&T, a mono-white deck, or finding Thoughtseize in High Tide, a mono-blue deck.
Legacy - RUG Delver RUG - Maverick GW - SI BG
Foreigning out SI, currently 33/75. The only thing better than a T1 kill is doing it with cards no one has ever heard of and/or can't read. If anyone has any of the usual pieces, PM me. I'm willing to buy/trade.
It's more common than the average common because it had 4 pieces of artwork each at common.
RGoblinsR
RWerewolf StompyR
URU/R DelverRU
RGBelcherGR
BThe GateB
GBLoam PoxBG
WGBNic FitBGW
UHigh TideU
UMerfolkU
UFaerieNinjaStillU
WBUAffinityUBW
GSquirrelsG
UWGSliversGWU
I also question if there is a successful Zoo list at all, let alone one including 4 Thoughtseize mainboard (the hell?).
RGoblinsR
RWerewolf StompyR
URU/R DelverRU
RGBelcherGR
BThe GateB
GBLoam PoxBG
WGBNic FitBGW
UHigh TideU
UMerfolkU
UFaerieNinjaStillU
WBUAffinityUBW
GSquirrelsG
UWGSliversGWU
Is that a definite not returning mechanic? Just wondering since I was surprised it was in m13.
My WTB - EDH stuff
Except for people who either A) already own them, or B) don't want Thoughtseize in Standard. That IS a nonzero number of people you know.
I really didn't think M14 and MM were co-ordinated to this extent, especially when I saw Chord of Calling miss the cut and make the whole thing look haphazard, but I could be wrong.
Still haven't seen the real proof on Mutavault either, though that one makes more sense with Slivers being in the set.
Hear-say really. Unless we get real confirmation or something, i woulden't get excited just yet.
Big thanks to Rivenor for the sig!!
Those were bumped because of their mystique. They were the two most desired reprints for Modern and are such a large part of Modern that being Mythic in a set called "Modern Masters" was reasonable. Thoughtseize doesn't have any special relation to "M14" and so it will not be Mythic.
Also noteworthy here... hymn to tourach
Maybe a 1 mana clause would have been good to include in the original statement
Just because I can ...
Mind Twist's CMC is 1...
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
The problem with putting 'staple' effects at mythic is that WotC frames the Mythic rarity as a tool that allows them to print cards that would otherwise be too bonkers or too niche in a Limited setting. Big awesome Commanders, Planeswalkers, and unstoppable bombs are the name of the game. Thoughtseize is a very different kind of card. Its just not a P1P1 card unless you're money drafting, especially compared to good removal like Go for the Throat or Path to Exile. From a drafting perspective, Thoughtseize could probably even be uncommon and it would be fine.
Its a darn shame that WotC bumped Bob, Clique, and 'Goyf to mythic, and it would likewise be a shame if they bumped Thoughtseize too. As players, we should be much angrier and much more vocal than we are. Moneygrabs are not acceptable if it makes sets worse to draft - and we should be on WotC's case about it.
Speculate less. Test more.
I can only imagine how much more stores would have charged if this was printed along with Mutavault in MM. Very glad they went this direction.
meat's Trade Corner
How does this relate to my post?
My articles go up every Thursday at midnight (EST). They're usually about Legacy, but I'll occasionally write about Standard or Modern.
My Twitch
I typically stream 2-3 Legacy dailies per week. These are my most common times:
Sun 8:30pm EST, Tue 10:30pm EST, Wed 8:30pm EST11pm EST on weeknights will be my most common time, for now, but here's hoping that WotC goes back to the staggered schedule!
If it's mythic, I could definitely see it. Even at rare it's possible, since everyone will be hunting for playsets and investors will buy up stock when they think it's the price has bottomed. Should be interesting to follow, regardless. Either way, a reprint in a normal set is great news and a step in the right direction.
Win some, lose some.
It is absolutely titillating.
meat's Trade Corner
Glad someone else pointed this out. The fact that the mythics in M14 are looking pretty mediocre doesn't bode well for any one of these 3 cards selling for a reduced price. I'm with you in that I feel like they are the only cards that people are going to want from this set. (Unless something amazing shows up pretty fast)
A decent Garruk and Chandra would also be nice after confirmation we are getting 3 more junk walkers.
Comic books get reprinted all the time. Baseball/basketball cards get reprinted. Books get reprinted. Even guitars, or cars or almost anything people collect get reissued.
When any collectible comes around, the price of the original run - the first printing of a comic book, the first edition of a book - is the one that maintains value.
Action Comics #1 (First printing) just auctioned for $175,000. You can find a reprint of the exact same issue for 20 bucks or less on ebay.
What I'm saying is, for some reason, companies like SCG which basically set the prices of cards is doing it all wrong and are partially to blame for things like the Reserved List. And I'll tell you why: If original printing of cards maintained their value but the reprints were seen as "less valuable," everyone would be happy.
You've got an RTR Shockland? Big deal. Everyone has one of those now. Try finding an original, mint condition Ravnica one.
Collectors will be happy because their original printing would still be worth $35-40. The reprints could be valued at a much more affordable $10.
And while this is the case to an extent - Guildpact Stomping Ground goes for $18 while Gatecrash Stomping Ground goes for $11 - if they simply maintained the values of the original print runs while decreasing the value of the reprints, everyone would be happier.
Why is the Reserved List still around? Because WotC made a promise to the collectors that they wouldn't decrease the value of their collectable. But a reprint in a later edition should have zero baring on whether you have the version from the original print run.
"Here's my M15 Tundra."
"Cool beans. Mine's from Beta."
As a player, I'm happy to play with the card. But as a collector, reprinting it in M15 should have NO BARRING on the price of my original Beta version. My Beta Tundra should maintain it's $1000 price tag 'cause it's still just as bloody hard to find a Beta version of the card regardless of reprint.
That's what the whole idea of "collecting" should be: To collect something because (A) you like collecting that particular thing and (B) because you're hoping it is one day worth something.
The problem is that stores like SCG just want to make money. When a reprint comes out, they just lower the price of the original versions to sell off more copies. That shouldn't be happening. If this were truly a "collectible," the prices wouldn't decrease. It's not the original printing. It's basically the stores that are warping the idea of this being a "collectable" game by determining what the value of cards should be on a day by day basis.
I'm not impressed when people break out RTR shocks. I am impressed when people break out Ravnica Shocks. Those are harder to get. They SHOULD be worth more. If Magic actually acted like every other collectable out there, the idea of reprints really wouldn't be a problem.