Also: who said they have designs 7 years in advance? The farthest in advance I've heard of is the FFL, which is 2 years in advance....
Maro always talks about how he has a seven year plan for development. They don't know exactly what they will do in that 7th year but they have a general idea. So if for instance that 7th year is a return to innistrad, they would be planning on it and save ideas that would work better there than in the block they are currently working on.
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If MTG is a part of your life, the formats are like relationships:
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
Maro always talks about how he has a seven year plan for development. They don't know exactly what they will do in that 7th year but they have a general idea. So if for instance that 7th year is a return to innistrad, they would be planning on it and save ideas that would work better there than in the block they are currently working on.
That still doesn't mean he didn't plan Scars of Zendikar before Zendikar came out. It only means that it will take 7 years after Maro gets fired before Standard doesn't suck anymore.
The past few months has been the best Standard we've seen in a long time.
This might seem like I'm flaming you, but I don't mean it like that.
How long have you been playing magic?
There is literally only three archetypes right now. Combo aggro, quick aggro, and ramp aggro. There's no real control deck, and lasting until a supreme verdict in the half ass control deck currently around is almost impossible.
If you like pokemon, then standard must be awesome for you, but I like Magic, not pokemon, and there's really only one format for players like me, and it's expensive.
Maybe your local meta is horrible but your explanation is in no way even close to the current Standard archetypes.
"ramp aggro" - WTF is that even?
There's 3 types of midrange decks (Jund/Naya/Prime Speaker), there's at least 4 types of control decks (UWR/Esper/Bant/4-color), there's 3 hyper-aggro decks (Blitz, RG, Rakdos), a couple medium-aggro decks, then you have 2-3 types of Reanimator Strategies, 3 types of the 'Aristocrats' deck (if you include RB or WB Zombies), Bant Hexproof, and the list goes on.....
I mean seriously, you gotta be trolling me.
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Old enough to know better, much too young to care.
Since I've used this forum, this thread has popped up every set. It's boring, and downright baseless. Until modern masters it was accompanied by the "goyf goyf?" "Goyf reprint inc" "pliss goyf nao? It only makes sense" threads.
As of what we know now, the Mythos and legendary things a the only speculations that have any base, and the legendary theme is iffy at best. Just wait and see guys, I know it's fun to wish and hope for stuff, but posting it on here is a different story and it clogs sub forums.
And before that it was "Enemy-colored fetch lands for sure in this set." Because a broken clock is right twice a day, they were eventually right, even if that speculation came up for every set since Onslaught.
I have to disagree with the legendary thing being iffy. They're cleaning up the legend rule for the first time since the last legend-heavy block and they're putting out a duel deck called "Heroes vs. Monsters." That, and legendary heroes make a lot of sense for a Greek set. There's no hard evidence, but it's at least based on reading between the lines as opposed to random wishful thinking.
Maybe your local meta is horrible but your explanation is in no way even close to the current Standard archetypes.
"ramp aggro" - WTF is that even?
There's 3 types of midrange decks (Jund/Naya/Prime Speaker), there's at least 4 types of control decks (UWR/Esper/Bant/4-color), there's 3 hyper-aggro decks (Blitz, RG, Rakdos), a couple medium-aggro decks, then you have 2-3 types of Reanimator Strategies, 3 types of the 'Aristocrats' deck (if you include RB or WB Zombies), Bant Hexproof, and the list goes on.....
I mean seriously, you gotta be trolling me.
There are really only two control decks, they rarely win, barely top 8, and they're just ****ing terrible decks as far as control goes. Other than UWR and Esper, every deck you named is an aggro deck. Some of them just use bigger creatures than others.
'ramp' is when you cast spells that get you lands, or you play 'mana dorks' to cast your big creatures faster.
I don't know what your 'local meta' is, but mine is Chicago, as in, all of Chicago. I go to every SCO I can, I'm at most PTQs, I'm at a large tournament every weekend, and the thing is, I look around, I read the TCGPlayer winning decklists, and I pay attention. I'm not always playing, but when I do I usually do well. This game isn't fun to me. Tapping cards and counting to 20? Real fun.
Now, if I could play a real control deck, that would be fun.
That still doesn't mean he didn't plan Scars of Zendikar before Zendikar came out. It only means that it will take 7 years after Maro gets fired before Standard doesn't suck anymore.
I actually meant design, not developement.
I highly doubt they would've planned a return to a block that hadn't even been released yet. It will be awhile before we return to anywhere I bet, if the breaks between original sets and the return to sets are guildlines they follow.
You can't blame Maro for the current standard. That is development's fault (I know I talked about maro being part of dev. but it's been a long day :p).
And for the record standard is not full of aggro, Jund midrange won the last scg open. There was only one aggro deck in the top 8, mono red. Control isn't super strong right now, and it doesn't have alot of options (has to be UWX), but I'm sure it will be in the next block or so.
I think right now they are trying to figure out the best power level for creatures, and they made some of them slightly more powerful than they should have. Or much more powerful than they should have (looking at you voice of resurgence).
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If MTG is a part of your life, the formats are like relationships:
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
Other than UWR and Esper, every deck you named is an aggro deck. Some of them just use bigger creatures than others.
'ramp' is when you cast spells that get you lands, or you play 'mana dorks' to cast your big creatures faster.
I don't think you know what aggro means.
Aggro decks are trying to win as fast as possible, usually throwing caution to the wind and going "all in". Midrange decks win with creatures like aggro (and control) but they aren't playing super fast, and a few of them are quite grindy like junk reanimator, or jund. They use a series of back breaking plays to win the game, whereas aggro has an "either you have it or you don't" philosophy.
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If MTG is a part of your life, the formats are like relationships:
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
I actually meant design, not developement.
I highly doubt they would've planned a return to a block that hadn't even been released yet. It will be awhile before we return to anywhere I bet, if the breaks between original sets and the return to sets are guildlines they follow.
You can't blame Maro for the current standard. That is development's fault (I know I talked about maro being part of dev. but it's been a long day :p).
And for the record standard is not full of aggro, Jund midrange won the last scg open. There was only one aggro deck in the top 8, mono red. Control isn't super strong right now, and it doesn't have alot of options (has to be UWX), but I'm sure it will be in the next block or so.
I think right now they are trying to figure out the best power level for creatures, and they made some of them slightly more powerful than they should have. Or much more powerful than they should have (looking at you voice of resurgence).
I just pulled up SCG Columbus, and if you count all of the aggro decks in the top 16, you will count 16 aggro decks. If you take out Jund, Frites, and Primespeaker Bant, there are still 4 aggro decks in top 8. Frites could easily ramp into it's finishers without using unburiel rights, jund is mostly ramp into big/quality creatures, and primespeaker bant is no where near control.
Anyway, Zendikar's plot line was left open ended, the eldrazi need to be sealed away, and it would flavorfully make sense that we return to the scars of zendikar sooner than 7 years, to finish the plot line.
I don't think you know what aggro means.
Aggro decks are trying to win as fast as possible, usually throwing caution to the wind and going "all in". Midrange decks win with creatures like aggro (and control) but they aren't playing super fast, and a few of them are quite grindy like junk reanimator, or jund. They use a series of back breaking plays to win the game, whereas aggro has an "either you have it or you don't" philosophy.
Aggro means aggressive, it's short forthe word aggressive. 'throwing caution to the wind' is the sligh archetype, which is a type of aggro. Funny thing, even sligh ran removal spells, though. Most of what you call aggro is what used to be called 'weenies' a type of aggro deck.
If you play as much as you say you do, you would know that Jund Mindrange is not just "another aggro deck with bigger creatures."
This has gone off topic enough I think...
Playing removal spells doesn't make it a control deck.
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@DarkTemplarESP: You apparently do not know much about legacy, just because you see the same decks winning doesn't mean they are dominating the format, they have a slight edge to other decks, if you go to a legacy tournament you will probably play a different deck every round. There are 40-50 different legacy decks tier 2 or higher.
@Tybalt you can make 187561284756 if you want and call them tier 27, but as you said, you always see same decks winning... go and check if that happens in T2, cause in this T2, you can call some decks tier 1, but there are many many decks that can win easy thoose decks, that's variety, not 40-50 different decks that you may play but win nothing.
High Tide isn't tier 1, but it can win. Esper Stoneblade is really good, very reliable, and is winning a lot. It wasn't winning as much 3 months ago, RUG Delver was. Two years ago, Team America was putting up good numbers, not so much anymore. A month ago people were talking about how absolutely broken a Show and Tell variant was, but it hasn't won anything in a while. It's top 8'd, though. If you look at Columbus, there are control, combo, and aggro decks all in the top 8. If you look at St. Louis you'll see that Tezzeret Control won, Tezzeret Control is not super tier one. It beat Death and Taxes in the final. D&T is not super tier one. In the top 16 there was also ANT, ANT is a storm combo deck, they usually don't do as well as non storm combo decks, it's ANT's best finish in a while.
The thing about legacy, is that popularity is as much a driving force as anything. Sometimes a deck is just popular.
In a month, will esper deathblade be as popular as it is, or as good as it is? Who knows? But the thing is it probably won't. It will still be tier one, though, but it's popularity may subside. If there were truly a dominate deck in legacy, you would see it be like 6/top 8, not 3/top 16. Just look back a couple years ago when they banned Survival of the Fittest.
You guys have to realize that we are approaching an anniversary for MTG...full art lands arnt all that crazy. it could be like a gift ya know? Possibly not, but its still there considering
Zendikar had full art lands because it was a LANDS SET kind of like how Mirrodin was the artifact set. It is far to soon for another lands set.
Not even remotely too soon, considering how well zendikar sold and how many people LOVED landfall as a mechanic (I love the landfall mechanic, it makes limited more interesting at least so you're almost always drawing live with a landfall card on board or in hand or something like that. Mana flood never feels good...unless you have a rampaging baloths or something like that on board lol.)
Maybe. Maybe not. If they do full art lands again, I hope they change the frame to the unhinged frame style as that frame was by far the best for full art lands.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
There are really only two control decks, they rarely win, barely top 8, and they're just ****ing terrible decks as far as control goes. Other than UWR and Esper, every deck you named is an aggro deck. Some of them just use bigger creatures than others.
'ramp' is when you cast spells that get you lands, or you play 'mana dorks' to cast your big creatures faster.
I don't know what your 'local meta' is, but mine is Chicago, as in, all of Chicago. I go to every SCO I can, I'm at most PTQs, I'm at a large tournament every weekend, and the thing is, I look around, I read the TCGPlayer winning decklists, and I pay attention. I'm not always playing, but when I do I usually do well. This game isn't fun to me. Tapping cards and counting to 20? Real fun.
Now, if I could play a real control deck, that would be fun.
Countering spells? Bouncing creatures? Hinging your gameplan on one of 2 outlets? Real fun.
Now, if I could play a real combo deck, that would be fun.
Seriously, get off your damn high horse. There are control decks, engine decks, reanimator strategies, midrange strategies, sligh and weenie blitz strategies. The fact that you called Jund an "aggro deck" shows me you don't know what you are talking about.
In the archetype triangle it's Control>Aggro>Midrange>Control. This of course is not including Combo, because that skews things up quite a bit. You seriously seem like one of those mages that whenever Blue isn't the dominating color in standard you throw a fit. You probably complained back when Jund was popular back in Alara/Zendikar standard.
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Kynaios and Tiro, Couple of the Year 2016
Many thanks to DNC at Heroes of the Plane Studios
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I couldn't disagree more.
We've had 2 blocks where we returned to old planes and now everyone thinks there's some sort of recursion going on.
Maro always talks about how he has a seven year plan for development. They don't know exactly what they will do in that 7th year but they have a general idea. So if for instance that 7th year is a return to innistrad, they would be planning on it and save ideas that would work better there than in the block they are currently working on.
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
That still doesn't mean he didn't plan Scars of Zendikar before Zendikar came out. It only means that it will take 7 years after Maro gets fired before Standard doesn't suck anymore.
What world do you live in, seriously?
The past few months has been the best Standard we've seen in a long time.
This might seem like I'm flaming you, but I don't mean it like that.
How long have you been playing magic?
There is literally only three archetypes right now. Combo aggro, quick aggro, and ramp aggro. There's no real control deck, and lasting until a supreme verdict in the half ass control deck currently around is almost impossible.
If you like pokemon, then standard must be awesome for you, but I like Magic, not pokemon, and there's really only one format for players like me, and it's expensive.
"ramp aggro" - WTF is that even?
There's 3 types of midrange decks (Jund/Naya/Prime Speaker), there's at least 4 types of control decks (UWR/Esper/Bant/4-color), there's 3 hyper-aggro decks (Blitz, RG, Rakdos), a couple medium-aggro decks, then you have 2-3 types of Reanimator Strategies, 3 types of the 'Aristocrats' deck (if you include RB or WB Zombies), Bant Hexproof, and the list goes on.....
I mean seriously, you gotta be trolling me.
And before that it was "Enemy-colored fetch lands for sure in this set." Because a broken clock is right twice a day, they were eventually right, even if that speculation came up for every set since Onslaught.
I have to disagree with the legendary thing being iffy. They're cleaning up the legend rule for the first time since the last legend-heavy block and they're putting out a duel deck called "Heroes vs. Monsters." That, and legendary heroes make a lot of sense for a Greek set. There's no hard evidence, but it's at least based on reading between the lines as opposed to random wishful thinking.
There are really only two control decks, they rarely win, barely top 8, and they're just ****ing terrible decks as far as control goes. Other than UWR and Esper, every deck you named is an aggro deck. Some of them just use bigger creatures than others.
'ramp' is when you cast spells that get you lands, or you play 'mana dorks' to cast your big creatures faster.
I don't know what your 'local meta' is, but mine is Chicago, as in, all of Chicago. I go to every SCO I can, I'm at most PTQs, I'm at a large tournament every weekend, and the thing is, I look around, I read the TCGPlayer winning decklists, and I pay attention. I'm not always playing, but when I do I usually do well. This game isn't fun to me. Tapping cards and counting to 20? Real fun.
Now, if I could play a real control deck, that would be fun.
I actually meant design, not developement.
I highly doubt they would've planned a return to a block that hadn't even been released yet. It will be awhile before we return to anywhere I bet, if the breaks between original sets and the return to sets are guildlines they follow.
You can't blame Maro for the current standard. That is development's fault (I know I talked about maro being part of dev. but it's been a long day :p).
And for the record standard is not full of aggro, Jund midrange won the last scg open. There was only one aggro deck in the top 8, mono red. Control isn't super strong right now, and it doesn't have alot of options (has to be UWX), but I'm sure it will be in the next block or so.
I think right now they are trying to figure out the best power level for creatures, and they made some of them slightly more powerful than they should have. Or much more powerful than they should have (looking at you voice of resurgence).
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
This has gone off topic enough I think...
I don't think you know what aggro means.
Aggro decks are trying to win as fast as possible, usually throwing caution to the wind and going "all in". Midrange decks win with creatures like aggro (and control) but they aren't playing super fast, and a few of them are quite grindy like junk reanimator, or jund. They use a series of back breaking plays to win the game, whereas aggro has an "either you have it or you don't" philosophy.
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
I just pulled up SCG Columbus, and if you count all of the aggro decks in the top 16, you will count 16 aggro decks. If you take out Jund, Frites, and Primespeaker Bant, there are still 4 aggro decks in top 8. Frites could easily ramp into it's finishers without using unburiel rights, jund is mostly ramp into big/quality creatures, and primespeaker bant is no where near control.
Anyway, Zendikar's plot line was left open ended, the eldrazi need to be sealed away, and it would flavorfully make sense that we return to the scars of zendikar sooner than 7 years, to finish the plot line.
Aggro means aggressive, it's short forthe word aggressive. 'throwing caution to the wind' is the sligh archetype, which is a type of aggro. Funny thing, even sligh ran removal spells, though. Most of what you call aggro is what used to be called 'weenies' a type of aggro deck.
Playing removal spells doesn't make it a control deck.
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@DarkTemplarESP: You apparently do not know much about legacy, just because you see the same decks winning doesn't mean they are dominating the format, they have a slight edge to other decks, if you go to a legacy tournament you will probably play a different deck every round. There are 40-50 different legacy decks tier 2 or higher.
High Tide isn't tier 1, but it can win. Esper Stoneblade is really good, very reliable, and is winning a lot. It wasn't winning as much 3 months ago, RUG Delver was. Two years ago, Team America was putting up good numbers, not so much anymore. A month ago people were talking about how absolutely broken a Show and Tell variant was, but it hasn't won anything in a while. It's top 8'd, though. If you look at Columbus, there are control, combo, and aggro decks all in the top 8. If you look at St. Louis you'll see that Tezzeret Control won, Tezzeret Control is not super tier one. It beat Death and Taxes in the final. D&T is not super tier one. In the top 16 there was also ANT, ANT is a storm combo deck, they usually don't do as well as non storm combo decks, it's ANT's best finish in a while.
The thing about legacy, is that popularity is as much a driving force as anything. Sometimes a deck is just popular.
In a month, will esper deathblade be as popular as it is, or as good as it is? Who knows? But the thing is it probably won't. It will still be tier one, though, but it's popularity may subside. If there were truly a dominate deck in legacy, you would see it be like 6/top 8, not 3/top 16. Just look back a couple years ago when they banned Survival of the Fittest.
Not even remotely too soon, considering how well zendikar sold and how many people LOVED landfall as a mechanic (I love the landfall mechanic, it makes limited more interesting at least so you're almost always drawing live with a landfall card on board or in hand or something like that. Mana flood never feels good...unless you have a rampaging baloths or something like that on board lol.)
Maybe. Maybe not. If they do full art lands again, I hope they change the frame to the unhinged frame style as that frame was by far the best for full art lands.
Currently Playing:
Retired
Countering spells? Bouncing creatures? Hinging your gameplan on one of 2 outlets? Real fun.
Now, if I could play a real combo deck, that would be fun.
Seriously, get off your damn high horse. There are control decks, engine decks, reanimator strategies, midrange strategies, sligh and weenie blitz strategies. The fact that you called Jund an "aggro deck" shows me you don't know what you are talking about.
In the archetype triangle it's Control>Aggro>Midrange>Control. This of course is not including Combo, because that skews things up quite a bit. You seriously seem like one of those mages that whenever Blue isn't the dominating color in standard you throw a fit. You probably complained back when Jund was popular back in Alara/Zendikar standard.
Many thanks to DNC at Heroes of the Plane Studios