To answer the OP, I believe a reprint of the Mirage fetches plus enemy-colored versions at uncommon would make sense for the core set following RTR block, and since they always include some rare utility land I believe between three and five utility lands are possible if we do see five or ten Mirage fetches at uncommon.
I think they've designed themselves into a corner with the checklands. they're more elegant than Nimbus Maze and don't really have anything too OP or too big of a drawback to them. they're damn near perfect and that's going to be a huge headscratcher for R&D to improve upon.
the only thing I could see is bringing back all ten pains or all ten fetches, and both of those options don't jive with their stated plans.
Take your monoblack deck, then set aside 14 swamps. Add 4 Creeping Tar Pits, 4 Darkslick Shores, 4 Drowned Catacombs, and 2 Jwar isle Refuge and add 4 Jace, the Mindsculptors. Your monoblack deck is instantly better. Better yet, drop those refuges, throw in some islands and some mana leaks, and lo and behold, you're now playing a real deck. Congratulations. Welcome to the world of competitive M:TG.
3. An uncommon cycle of duals (new cycle, or the broke-mans fetchland AKA Mirage fetches) and use the rare slots for better cards instead of the 90th year of the same lands.
4. Original manlands or fastlands.
5. Enemy/Innistrad Checklands
But the most important thing is that they don't reprint the allied checklands.
Sometimes I feel like the word "interactivity" around here is akin to the word "electrolytes" in sports drinks. The public doesn't really know what it means, but they figure it's a good thing to have.
I think the best choice for a new cycle of duals would be a complete Nimbus Maze cycle of lands. They're simple, elegant, work really well with shocklands, and would be a good cycle for people to want to open.
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Tournament Victories:
Indianapolis Regionals 2009 (Standard)
Worldwake Gameday (Limited)
I predict a new cycle. The checks are tired, the Scars don't fit theme wise, Nimbus Maze/River of Tears is awkward, lands that pay life are no-go for core sets. The only reprint I could see is the Odyssey filter lands. But I do like this speculation about mono-color utility lands hinting at Theros's potential mono-color theme.
Popped into my head while writing ^.
Blah-Land
Land
~ is a Forest Plains if you control a white or green permanent.
T: Add 1.
I really hate 'ETBT', prefer other conditionals. Yes it doesn't fix on T1.
Functionally that would print like Nimbus Maze, but could not (by definition) be printed with basic landtypes. Since basic landtypes says "This thing taps for C"
It would have to be
Land T: Add 1 to your mana pool. T: Add W to your mana pool. Activate this ability only if you control a White Permanent. T: Add U to your mana pool. Activate this ability only if you control a Blue Permanent.
The issue with this land, entirely, is that with board wipes being constant it'll be easy neuter this card back to being colorless. It's a win-more, and terrible for mana balancing.
Maybe so Standard Manabases don't cost as much as Legacy and Modern ones? -_-
If they reprinted the Fetches, they could cut their prices down some, but really, everyone would be buying the foils because they KNOW the price will go up later- even more obviously so than with Ravnica Shocks because we've already had this thought experiment with Zendikar kinda, AND because Fetches are VINTAGE playable, Shocks usually are not.- effectively meaning that they're paying the same for Standard Mana as they're paying for Modern or Legacy when they judiciously avoid the Foils of Lands/save Foils for either awesome creatures or spells or Legendary Permanents if possible.
No, they will have one, or the other, of these in Standard at the same time (Fetches or Shocks) but NEVER both. Lemme give you an example of a card that you didn't think could go higher but WILL get a Second Skyrocket if the have Standard w/ Fetches + Shocks:
I am probably every color-combination it is possible to be, though it's really hard to figure out what it would mean to be 4-colored....it doesn't seem logical to be 4-colored without being 5-colored.
I predict a new cycle. The checks are tired, the Scars don't fit theme wise, Nimbus Maze/River of Tears is awkward, lands that pay life are no-go for core sets. The only reprint I could see is the Odyssey filter lands. But I do like this speculation about mono-color utility lands hinting at Theros's potential mono-color theme.
Popped into my head while writing ^.
Blah-Land
Land
~ is a Forest Plains if you control a white or green permanent.
T: Add 1.
I really hate 'ETBT', prefer other conditionals. Yes it doesn't fix on T1.
What stops them from just printing all the good mana fixing lands as uncommons five-at-a-time in two sets of a block?
They don't print good mana fixing at uncommon because they are a company that likes to make money. Lands are a huge seller for them, and people will open boosters to open land.
What about the bounce-lands that were in the original ravnica block, such as Boros Garrison? They're not rares of course, but i havent seen much mention of them in the discussion.
What about the bounce-lands that were in the original ravnica block, such as Boros Garrison? They're not rares of course, but i havent seen much mention of them in the discussion.
They have plane specific names so they can't reprint them outside of Ravnica or side products.
They can show up in core sets, core sets are free for whatever plain they want. As was shown with all the M13 legendaries being from specific plains. They won't because Wizards is a little afraid of lands that tap for 2. Especially in a color.
I'd be open to the reprinting of lands on par with the original dual lands. They don't have to make them exactly the same. But snow covered duals would be nice.
I'd be open to the reprinting of lands on par with the original dual lands. They don't have to make them exactly the same. But snow covered duals would be nice.
I think that that would be a good idea for the player, but so bad on the MTG economy... so very unlikely to happen.
I would like to see Dual lands be printed with no draw back such as:
T: to add R or W to your mana pool.
But unlike ABR Dual Lands, do NOT make these basic land types... no "Plains/Mountain"...
This will also completely neuter the shock lands... so again, probably unlikely to happen.
All that being said, I see Onslaught/Zendikar Fetches being reprinted in Theros and Journey into Nyx. Almost too good mana fixing, lower the price of Fetches (Desperately needed), and just in time right after Modern Masters, perfect for people to get into Modern.
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Playing Magic Since 1995 -
Best Standard of all time was "Scars/12/Innistrad"
Fav Cards of all time: Geist of Saint Traft; Kaalia of the Vast
Am I the only one who wants there to be less mana fixing, not more? I mean, the more colors you add, the more of a challenge it should be, right?
This. The draw back of playing a 3+ colored deck should be lack of consistency. But what we see in Standard and Modern are a bunch of very successful consistent tri colored decks. Paying a little bit of life isn't a significant drawback (this is clear considering how sucessful 3+ color decks do in the meta compared to mono colored decks).
If a deck has 3+ colors, or even just 2, it will be able to answer more problems, a tri colored deck can have good creatures, card draw, creature removal, enchantment removal, and counters, all while being consistent. Mono colored decks just can't keep up with these "goodstuff decks", and in theory they should be able to.
A start would be to either print mediocre duals. Also reprinting something like Price of Progress or Back to Basics would at least encourage 3+ colored players to have to run several basics so they lose some consistency. More cards that encourage mono colored play would also be helpful (Cabal Coffers, Phyrexian Obliterator, etc.). Perhaps a mechanic that gave your creatures benefits if you control 3 or more permanents that are only one color.
If there are going to be good duals, I really don't see why it's so outrageous for them to be uncommon. I mean, it's really crazy that to build a dual or tri colored deck, players have to spend over $100 on land. What's the worse that could happen if the pain lands were uncommon? Limited multi colored decks would be better? Oh no! You could open up a bunch of rare slots and make it easier for all players to have access to solid mana bases. Regardless though, multicolored decks shouldn't be as consistent, or decks that play less than 3 colors should have some perks aside from not having to pay life to pay lands.
The draw back of playing a 3+ colored deck should be lack of consistency.
I think you hit the nail on the head here. It's really grind my gears to see 3 or 3 and a splash decks running nearly as consistently as a monocolored deck. I think our rare land cycle this go around should be something that encourages monocolor play like Cabal Coffers, and four new lands for each color that make it beneficial to have more basics.
I personally think they should do a cycle of lands at uncommon for allied colors as well based off the Tainted Field cycle. But instead of swamps, have it be either basic land type. So the BR land could tap for a colorless, or a B or R if you controlled a basic swamp or a basic mountain (make it so duals/shocks do not work with them). I think this type of land would allow more casual players an affordable manabase, that at the same point doesn't invalidate other rare lands.
I just want to see a benefit to playing mono, and some nonbasic hate (Price of Progress or Molten Rain or something) would be nice too.
So according to MaRo (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=509909), we aren't going to be seeing incomplete land cycles for the most part anymore. Given how tired Wizards seems to be of the old friendly checklands and the current rumors of landfall and cycling as core set mechanics, there are a lot of different routes they could go for M14...
1. Reprint both Innistrad and core set checklands- The biggest benefit to this would be the amount of money saved on manabase stability, as I imagine a lot of players don't particularly want to shell out for new lands after spending the last set hoarding shocklands. However, 10 rare lands takes up a lot of slots, and wasting them on tired designs
2. Reprint Onslaught and Zendikar fetchlands- It's the kind of thing that's been speculated about for a while, and it certainly would tie in with landfall and work well with shocklands. That said, their value would be absurdly high when concentrated in a single set; Theros and/or a later block seems like a more likely landing point. They're also not very beginner-friendly, and rare slots are again an issue.
3. Print a new 10 color rare cycle- This has the same problem as 1 and 2, but we haven't had a new dual land design since Scars block and it's high time for a new one.
4. Print rare monocolored utility lands- Let's face it, a lot of players are going to be tired of multicolor after Dragon's Maze. I wouldn't be shocked if we saw a monocolored cycle instead; it only takes up the usual 5 rare slots.
5. Print a common/uncommon land cycle- This would be an interesting route, since it offers another budget option for lands (the Guildgates were pretty successful in that regard) and teaches new players that lands are important. It could also work in limited with the core set mechanic, especially if it's landfall or cycling.
6. Ignore lands- It's altogether possible that they reprint Evolving Wilds and call it a day. If M14 has a very strong monocolored theme, it would make sense, but the presence of slivers (a 5-color tribe) seems to indicate otherwise.
What do you think? A combination of 4 and 5 seems the most likely to me.
Another possibility is that they bring back an old unfinished cycle and finish it (ex. Seachrome Coast and the other Scars lands don't have any enemy color counterparts).
I think fastlands (Scars of Mirrodin) are likely as a 10-card cycle.
They are good (legitimately Modern playable), don't have busted interactions with shocklands (sorry fetches, your turn will come in M2015 or 2016 when you won't break Standard for 15 months), and popular.
As for the whole 'beginners don't like rare lands' - experienced players don't like rare Timmy chaff and there's still 5-10 of those each set. Not every card is for everyone.
They could just print the rare land cycle as an exception in the basic land slot, like they did in Dragon's Maze for Gates and Shocklands.
They wouldn't fill the rare slot with 10 dual lands, useless for Limited and for new players, who would still get their Timmy rare in every pack.
I don't think they'd do that. It's rare enough to pull a shockland in DGM as is, and it was only viable because they had just been printed in the two sets before. Even if you're just going to reprint the checklands, such a limited run can't be a good idea.
Rarity is always an issue with printing dual-lands. Why don't they start printing them at uncommon, so players don't have to spend and trade so much to obtain them.
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"If you don't wear your seatbelt, the police will shoot you in the head."
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
In light of the recent spoilers, with Staff of the Mind Magus at #221, and at least 2 artifacts after(Staff of the Wild Magus and Vial of Poison), we will not be seeing a cycle of 10 lands in M14, since basics start at #230.
To answer the OP, I believe a reprint of the Mirage fetches plus enemy-colored versions at uncommon would make sense for the core set following RTR block, and since they always include some rare utility land I believe between three and five utility lands are possible if we do see five or ten Mirage fetches at uncommon.
the only thing I could see is bringing back all ten pains or all ten fetches, and both of those options don't jive with their stated plans.
How To Keep Your FOIL Cards From Curling: http://youtu.be/QTmubrS8VnI
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The Best Binders: http://youtu.be/H5IauASYWjk
1. Enemy Manlands or Fastlands (in that order)
2. Finish out the murmuring bosk cycle.
3. An uncommon cycle of duals (new cycle, or the broke-mans fetchland AKA Mirage fetches) and use the rare slots for better cards instead of the 90th year of the same lands.
4. Original manlands or fastlands.
5. Enemy/Innistrad Checklands
But the most important thing is that they don't reprint the allied checklands.
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Indianapolis Regionals 2009 (Standard)
Worldwake Gameday (Limited)
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Older Magic as a Board Game: Panglacial Wurm , Mill
Popped into my head while writing ^.
Blah-Land
Land
~ is a Forest Plains if you control a white or green permanent.
T: Add 1.
I really hate 'ETBT', prefer other conditionals. Yes it doesn't fix on T1.
It would have to be
Land
T: Add 1 to your mana pool.
T: Add W to your mana pool. Activate this ability only if you control a White Permanent.
T: Add U to your mana pool. Activate this ability only if you control a Blue Permanent.
The issue with this land, entirely, is that with board wipes being constant it'll be easy neuter this card back to being colorless. It's a win-more, and terrible for mana balancing.
If they reprinted the Fetches, they could cut their prices down some, but really, everyone would be buying the foils because they KNOW the price will go up later- even more obviously so than with Ravnica Shocks because we've already had this thought experiment with Zendikar kinda, AND because Fetches are VINTAGE playable, Shocks usually are not.- effectively meaning that they're paying the same for Standard Mana as they're paying for Modern or Legacy when they judiciously avoid the Foils of Lands/save Foils for either awesome creatures or spells or Legendary Permanents if possible.
No, they will have one, or the other, of these in Standard at the same time (Fetches or Shocks) but NEVER both. Lemme give you an example of a card that you didn't think could go higher but WILL get a Second Skyrocket if the have Standard w/ Fetches + Shocks:
Deathrite Shaman
People need to read this fanfiction, though:
www.hpmor.com
I am probably every color-combination it is possible to be, though it's really hard to figure out what it would mean to be 4-colored....it doesn't seem logical to be 4-colored without being 5-colored.
great idea, but i would rather they complete other cycles first
Thanks Argentleman;)
WB Teysa token aggroBW (retired)
MAKING (Onmath, Numot, maybe something in Esper)
They don't print good mana fixing at uncommon because they are a company that likes to make money. Lands are a huge seller for them, and people will open boosters to open land.
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
They have plane specific names so they can't reprint them outside of Ravnica or side products.
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
I think that that would be a good idea for the player, but so bad on the MTG economy... so very unlikely to happen.
I would like to see Dual lands be printed with no draw back such as:
T: to add R or W to your mana pool.
But unlike ABR Dual Lands, do NOT make these basic land types... no "Plains/Mountain"...
This will also completely neuter the shock lands... so again, probably unlikely to happen.
All that being said, I see Onslaught/Zendikar Fetches being reprinted in Theros and Journey into Nyx. Almost too good mana fixing, lower the price of Fetches (Desperately needed), and just in time right after Modern Masters, perfect for people to get into Modern.
Best Standard of all time was "Scars/12/Innistrad"
Fav Cards of all time: Geist of Saint Traft; Kaalia of the Vast
This. The draw back of playing a 3+ colored deck should be lack of consistency. But what we see in Standard and Modern are a bunch of very successful consistent tri colored decks. Paying a little bit of life isn't a significant drawback (this is clear considering how sucessful 3+ color decks do in the meta compared to mono colored decks).
If a deck has 3+ colors, or even just 2, it will be able to answer more problems, a tri colored deck can have good creatures, card draw, creature removal, enchantment removal, and counters, all while being consistent. Mono colored decks just can't keep up with these "goodstuff decks", and in theory they should be able to.
A start would be to either print mediocre duals. Also reprinting something like Price of Progress or Back to Basics would at least encourage 3+ colored players to have to run several basics so they lose some consistency. More cards that encourage mono colored play would also be helpful (Cabal Coffers, Phyrexian Obliterator, etc.). Perhaps a mechanic that gave your creatures benefits if you control 3 or more permanents that are only one color.
If there are going to be good duals, I really don't see why it's so outrageous for them to be uncommon. I mean, it's really crazy that to build a dual or tri colored deck, players have to spend over $100 on land. What's the worse that could happen if the pain lands were uncommon? Limited multi colored decks would be better? Oh no! You could open up a bunch of rare slots and make it easier for all players to have access to solid mana bases. Regardless though, multicolored decks shouldn't be as consistent, or decks that play less than 3 colors should have some perks aside from not having to pay life to pay lands.
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
I think you hit the nail on the head here. It's really grind my gears to see 3 or 3 and a splash decks running nearly as consistently as a monocolored deck. I think our rare land cycle this go around should be something that encourages monocolor play like Cabal Coffers, and four new lands for each color that make it beneficial to have more basics.
I personally think they should do a cycle of lands at uncommon for allied colors as well based off the Tainted Field cycle. But instead of swamps, have it be either basic land type. So the BR land could tap for a colorless, or a B or R if you controlled a basic swamp or a basic mountain (make it so duals/shocks do not work with them). I think this type of land would allow more casual players an affordable manabase, that at the same point doesn't invalidate other rare lands.
I just want to see a benefit to playing mono, and some nonbasic hate (Price of Progress or Molten Rain or something) would be nice too.
Another possibility is that they bring back an old unfinished cycle and finish it (ex. Seachrome Coast and the other Scars lands don't have any enemy color counterparts).
They are good (legitimately Modern playable), don't have busted interactions with shocklands (sorry fetches, your turn will come in M2015 or 2016 when you won't break Standard for 15 months), and popular.
As for the whole 'beginners don't like rare lands' - experienced players don't like rare Timmy chaff and there's still 5-10 of those each set. Not every card is for everyone.
I don't think they'd do that. It's rare enough to pull a shockland in DGM as is, and it was only viable because they had just been printed in the two sets before. Even if you're just going to reprint the checklands, such a limited run can't be a good idea.
Cubetutor Link
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
221+2=223, 6 integers from 223 to 230.
Guess what else players don't like? Too much multicolor.
Alara block says hello.