The Lands of M14

  • #1
    So according to MaRo (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=509909), we aren't going to be seeing incomplete land cycles for the most part anymore. Given how tired Wizards seems to be of the old friendly checklands and the current rumors of landfall and cycling as core set mechanics, there are a lot of different routes they could go for M14...

    1. Reprint both Innistrad and core set checklands- The biggest benefit to this would be the amount of money saved on manabase stability, as I imagine a lot of players don't particularly want to shell out for new lands after spending the last set hoarding shocklands. However, 10 rare lands takes up a lot of slots, and wasting them on tired designs

    2. Reprint Onslaught and Zendikar fetchlands- It's the kind of thing that's been speculated about for a while, and it certainly would tie in with landfall and work well with shocklands. That said, their value would be absurdly high when concentrated in a single set; Theros and/or a later block seems like a more likely landing point. They're also not very beginner-friendly, and rare slots are again an issue.

    3. Print a new 10 color rare cycle- This has the same problem as 1 and 2, but we haven't had a new dual land design since Scars block and it's high time for a new one.

    4. Print rare monocolored utility lands- Let's face it, a lot of players are going to be tired of multicolor after Dragon's Maze. I wouldn't be shocked if we saw a monocolored cycle instead; it only takes up the usual 5 rare slots.

    5. Print a common/uncommon land cycle- This would be an interesting route, since it offers another budget option for lands (the Guildgates were pretty successful in that regard) and teaches new players that lands are important. It could also work in limited with the core set mechanic, especially if it's landfall or cycling.

    6. Ignore lands- It's altogether possible that they reprint Evolving Wilds and call it a day. If M14 has a very strong monocolored theme, it would make sense, but the presence of slivers (a 5-color tribe) seems to indicate otherwise.

    What do you think? A combination of 4 and 5 seems the most likely to me.
  • #2
    I'm hoping for checks but not holding my breath.
  • #3
    Both Zendikar and Innistrad had 10 of the 53 rare slots going to non-basic land cycles, so all 10 checklands is not that fare fetched.

    4 years in a row of the allied ones is enough, IMO. But, its more likely than Fetchlands (expensive mana bases for Standard in the future), Painlands (dead nearly everywhere now), Filterlands (too complex for core set), and Shocklands (they just reprinted all ten).

    So, either all 10 checklands, OR a new allied cycle, with an enemy cycle to follow in the next block.
  • #4
    I'll never understand why people want to play with awful mana bases and force things like MBC. Diverse mana bases allow diverse metas.
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  • #5
    Zac Hill hinted that there wouldn't be check lands in m14. He said on one of Wizard's streams that the design team didn't want to print check lands again in m13, but they liked the interaction they had with the shock lands. So his reluctance to print them in m13 assumes that they won't print them again in m14.

    I would like to speculate that the shadowmoor filter lands get reprinted to help out with Modern.
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  • #6
    Quote from rickster_
    Zac Hill hinted that there wouldn't be check lands in m14. He said on one of Wizard's streams that the design team didn't want to print check lands again in m13, but they liked the interaction they had with the shock lands. So his reluctance to print them in m13 assumes that they won't print them again in m14.

    I would like to speculate that the shadowmoor filter lands get reprinted to help out with Modern.


    If they bring back the Shadowmoor Filters it won't be in a Core Set. They can do it in Theros block but Hybrid Mana cost isn't very likely in a set they won't print Gold cards in.

    The Pay 1 Fetchlands (Onslaught and Zendikar) seem most likely, as to use the untapped whatever land you wanted would involve losing 3 (if you searched a Shockland since Fetchlands literally will beecome 'get whatever land you want' with Shocks around), which will add up. Mirage Fetches are not happening, but they are definitely not happening with Shocks around.

    They could go completely mad and bring in Lairs or Shardlands. Then go even further off the edge by making a cycle of Wedgelands.
  • #7
    Quote from Thundermare
    Both Zendikar and Innistrad had 10 of the 53 rare slots going to non-basic land cycles, so all 10 checklands is not that fare fetched.

    4 years in a row of the allied ones is enough, IMO. But, its more likely than Fetchlands (expensive mana bases for Standard in the future), Painlands (dead nearly everywhere now), Filterlands (too complex for core set), and Shocklands (they just reprinted all ten).

    So, either all 10 checklands, OR a new allied cycle, with an enemy cycle to follow in the next block.

    I agree with you. I also think there is potential for a full cycle of Scars fast lands, too. Flavor-wise, they don't fit except in Mirrodin and core sets, but they are very good designs and pretty popular.
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  • #8
    I hope they do the River of Tears cycle. Its day has come...^_^

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  • #9
    Fetchlands are very unlikely, since Wizards have stated before that newer players dislike paying life and Core sets are mostly for newer players to get into the game.

    I personally wouldn't mind all ten checklands or something similar.
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  • #10
    i think nimbus maze set of 10 seems more likely plays well with shocks and is easy to understand.
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  • #11
    It's not going to be fetches until at least after Shocks are gone. I'm all for good mana, but mana should not be that good in Standard. We can pretty easily play 4 colors right now, you replace checks with fetches and there would be little to stop everyone from playing 5 color if they wanted to, and 3 color decks would have 0 downside. There needs to be at least some cost to playing more colors.
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  • #12
    Quote from jturphy
    It's not going to be fetches until at least after Shocks are gone. I'm all for good mana, but mana should not be that good in Standard. We can pretty easily play 4 colors right now, you replace checks with fetches and there would be little to stop everyone from playing 5 color if they wanted to, and 3 color decks would have 0 downside. There needs to be at least some cost to playing more colors.


    Why should there be?
    Quote from Acardus
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  • #13
    Quote from Go.dec
    Why should there be?


    Because opening up the format to more possible deck archetypes is a bad thing? I'm puzzled too.
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  • #14
    Quote from FlossedBeaver
    Because opening up the format to more possible deck archetypes is a bad thing? I'm puzzled too.

    If you can play 3-color decks without any downside and even 5-color without stretching your imagination, you don't diversify the metagame. When every deck is able to play every best card, you take away the reasons to build out-of-the-box decks because you don't actually gain any advantage by playing powerful cards other decks can't, because well, they can.

    There is a limit to how good duals can be to offer diversity. I think it is a great step that all 10 2-color pairs are supposed to be supported equally, at least mana wise. Ally- and Enemycolor should be defined by the colors playing together mechanically or synergistically (I don't mind something obvious like the Flinthoof Boar Cycle), not for logistical reasons like mana. Every color combination should have the same mana support. That does allow for a lot of diversity. At the moment, the mana is really, really good with check- and shocklands, easily enough to support 3- or even 4-color decks just with lands. But don't think this is always true just by having 2 10-card cycles of duals. The current duals are ridiculously good. You can put quite a bit of restriction on decks (i.e., mostly limiting them to 2 colors) by making the lands a bit worse, but keeping the amount the same to support those 2-color pairs.

    Don't get me wrong, I don't mind the colorfulness of todays metagame, but it is not something I like every day of the week, because as said, too good mana actually limits diversity again. In my opinion, 2-color pairs should have good mana, and everything above that shouldn't (or at least not as good) -- as the norm at least. Going for 10-card cycles in the future will greatly help that goal, but I don't think reprinting the fetchlands now would -- that would allow 4-color decks easily, which, really, is NOT helping diversity.
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  • #15
    Because opening up the format to more possible deck archetypes is a bad thing? I'm puzzled too.


    I think he means playing several colors should be a high risk/high reward, which i think i agree with. If you can play all colors with no consequences, you might see decks with like 30 mythics in it, and it'll widen the gap between competitive players and casual players. I already hear too much complaining about "whoever spends the most money wins" in my area.

    I'm hoping for filter lands, don't have any of them and they'd be great in some of my edh decks.
    Last edited by jmm483: 5/11/2013 4:29:25 AM
  • #16
    I'm hoping for Worldwake manlands (eg Celestial Colonnade) as well as an enemy coloured cycle, probably not a core set thing though.
  • #17
    I would just love it if they made dual lands that were uncommon that didn't suck. Reprint (or functional reprint) of the painlands or the fastlands at uncommon. Then players don't have to pay a bunch of money if want to play multiple colors and you can have more rare slots.
  • #18
    Quote from Honor Basquiat
    I would just love it if they made dual lands that were uncommon that didn't suck. Reprint (or functional reprint) of the painlands or the fastlands at uncommon. Then players don't have to pay a bunch of money if want to play multiple colors and you can have more rare slots.

    Both the painlands and the fast lands are to good for uncommon, you know that right?

    The best we can hope for when it comes to uncommon dual colored lands would be something like the Refuge cycle. If we are *really* lucky we will get Crumbling Necropolis and friends, to support the multicolor theme in RTR.

    What I'd really like to see however, is the Mirage Fetches (Bad River, Grasslands, et. al.).
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  • #19
    The question on the fetches basically comes down to "Is paying 3 for every type of immediate mana fix enough of a cost?" I think yes. It'll make fixing and shocking yourself a choice you have to think about on some turns. If the game slows down, you'll get the time to think maybe I don't need to shock myself.

    However, "Is paying 2 for every type of immediate mana fix enough of a cost?" my answer is heck no. So Mirage Fetches are so far away from a good idea. Splashing out of color will happen at about the same rate as when we had Phyrexian mana. Which was a BAD idea when we had that around.

    Want to splash some red spells in your GW? Make sure a few of your lands are Sacred Foundries and Stomping Grounds. They still tap usefully after you search with your Grasslands. Rather run some black kill spells? Well then just use Godless Shrines and Overgrown Tombs, you don't need a lot of them as you can fetch them out of your deck whenever you want. Want both? Run all four as one ofs, you'll never worry about not hitting them when you need them.

    At least the Onslaught/Zendikar fetches lead to some level of choice if you practically lightning bolt yourself for mana.
  • #20
    I really don't care what lands they print as long as they're not fetchlands.

    The constant shuffling just to get mana online is pretty annoying. It wouldn't be so bad if everyone shuffled quickly but there are plenty of people out there that will just sit there and shuffle and shuffle like they're in a trance until you look at them like they're crazy, then they shuffle once more and present the deck. Of course, once you crack your own fetchland they'll repeat the whole process with your deck. Sheer madness.
    Last edited by Indol: 5/11/2013 8:56:51 AM
  • #21
    Quote from Rakath
    The question on the fetches basically comes down to "Is paying 3 for every type of immediate mana fix enough of a cost?" I think yes. It'll make fixing and shocking yourself a choice you have to think about on some turns. If the game slows down, you'll get the time to think maybe I don't need to shock myself.

    However, "Is paying 2 for every type of immediate mana fix enough of a cost?" my answer is heck no. So Mirage Fetches are so far away from a good idea. Splashing out of color will happen at about the same rate as when we had Phyrexian mana. Which was a BAD idea when we had that around.

    Want to splash some red spells in your GW? Make sure a few of your lands are Sacred Foundries and Stomping Grounds. They still tap usefully after you search with your Grasslands. Rather run some black kill spells? Well then just use Godless Shrines and Overgrown Tombs, you don't need a lot of them as you can fetch them out of your deck whenever you want. Want both? Run all four as one ofs, you'll never worry about not hitting them when you need them.

    At least the Onslaught/Zendikar fetches lead to some level of choice if you practically lightning bolt yourself for mana.

    You realize you can basically "downgrade" the good fetchlands to Mirage Fetchlands for low cost of a single life, right? The fetchlands would be waay better than the Mirage ones.
    Fetchlands in Standard now would actually massively reduce the damage you take from your lands, even with the same amount of colors or more, because you can just run so much less of the shocklands.
    Mirage Lands wouldn't be as bad, because, well, they enter tapped and are therefore inherently "not great", but I do agree that once you settle on playing them, you can basically go 4-5 colors with ease. Still, it would be a solution that doesn't involve another ten rare lands. It also would push the Blitz decks out of the format (although the rotation of Cavern of Souls would probably do that anyway), making it quite a bit slower. But I guess basically any land that isn't as good as the checklands (with shocks) would slow the format down on its own.
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  • #22
    I'm hoping for 10 checklands. I'd rather not shell out more money to buy all new lands if they rotate, that would be very disappointing.
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  • #23
    Quote from Go.dec
    I'll never understand why people want to play with awful mana bases and force things like MBC. Diverse mana bases allow diverse metas.


    Probably because more mana fixing leads to more "goodstuff" decks.
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  • #24
    Honestly, right now, printing a completed cycle of Nimbus Maze seems the 'best' in terms of mana fix for the next Standard.

    It does interact, positively, with the Shocklands. However it doesn't interact in such a way to make 5C completely bonkers. If you're running in solidly two color, this isn't any different than Shocks+Checks as your mana base. As a Shock>Check and Shock>Nimbus is the same thing.

    But in 3-5C they cease to be reliable, which is the risk-reward thing 5C should be trading on. Where 5C could run without any issue on Shocks+Fetches, and 3-4C is pretty comfortable on Shocks+Checks, this card (as a full cycle) would not be reliable until after you get a comfortable starting mana. Which means any Green based 3C is fine, but they would be fine anyway with whatever ramp they are given.
  • #25
    Nimbus Maze cycle wouldn't be a bad idea, but I'd love a 10-card cycle of the worldwake man-lands.

    But as far as the core set goes, I wouldn't mind an uncommon cycle, such as the refuges.
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