Being able to burn hexproof while cool and new seems super narrow... unless we are about to be inundated with more hexproof (I hope not). It does fit the never seen on a red card before hint though.
I'd prefer they'd just print pyroclasm and not have me have to get a walker to have that effect.. It is pretty clear from everyone's attempts at making chandra the #1 thing they want to see is Pryoclasm.... why not just give us the card?
I think I might just be a little selfish and want a walker no one likes again so I can afford to use her. I have great work out of firebrand. If she is good I wont be able to afford her :S.
I guess I am just going to have to be patient and wait and see... she is going to probably be the first spoiled at least.
1RR
+1: return target instant or sorcery from gy to your hand
-2: pyroclasm
-6: you gain an emblem: "instants and sorceries you cast has storm"
Loyalty: 3
Chandra the Renegade- RRR
+0: Put loyalty counters on ~ equal to the amount of red instants/sorceries in your graveyard.
-2: ~ deals 2 damage to target creature and 2 damage to that creature's controller.
-8: You get an emblem with: "Whenever you cast a red instant/sorcery spell, put an X/X phoenix token with flying onto the battlefield where x is that spells converted mana cost."
Chandra the Crazy Redhead- 1RR
+1: Put loyalty counters on ~ equal to twice the number of red instants/sorceries you played this turn.
-3: ~ deals 3 damage to target creature and 2 damage to that creature's controller.
-6: You get an emblem with: "Whenever you cast a red instant/sorcery spell, put an X/X phoenix token onto the battlefield where x is that spells converted mana cost."
3
The ultimate's way too easily achieved through the first effect. I play this and two Lightning Bolts, Burst Lightnings, or whatever, and instantly get to put five loyalty counters on it. Even if I only played one, I'm already able to pay for the ultimate. You'd definitely have to reword the first effect or up the cost of the ultimate for this to be printable.
Not sure what the never before seen in red effect will be, but I'm really hoping it's not something super gimmicky, but still is more interesting than an offspring of a generic red ability like burn or drawing and discarding.
The ultimate's way too easily achieved through the first effect. I play this and two Lightning Bolts, Burst Lightnings, or whatever, and instantly get to put five loyalty counters on it. Even if I only played one, I'm already able to pay for the ultimate. You'd definitely have to reword the first effect or up the cost of the ultimate for this to be printable.
I appreciate the feedback, but i disagree... in a red burn deck, tapping out T3 for a 4 loyalty planeswalker then having her do nothing again on the second turn is actually a huge drawback. The fact that she's just a sub-par removal spell otherwise makes her relatively fair imo.
After those 2 bolts, bursts, or whatever your hand is already down two red instants/sorceries as well, making the ult way weaker. I made her specify "red" spells in order to avoid an overly powerful R/U control deck built around her and cheap cantrips.
Plus most of her phoenix's will be less than 3/3.
EDIT: My greatest hope is to have another red walker that retains it's use during the lategame. I loved Koth because he promoted an unusual form of red that gives us something besides burn and aggro to try (Big Red).
I appreciate the feedback, but i disagree... in a red burn deck, tapping out T3 for a 4 loyalty planeswalker then having her do nothing again on the second turn is actually a huge drawback. The fact that she's just a sub-par removal spell otherwise makes her relatively fair imo.
After those 2 bolts, bursts, or whatever your hand is already down two red instants/sorceries already. So the ult will lose a lot of it's luster. I made her specify "red" spells in order to avoid an overly powerful R/U control deck built around her that just Ponders to victory.
Good points for sure, wasn't really thinking about that.
I still don't think the ultimate should be so easy to pay for, after all, it is an ultimate; it being easy to pay for kind of takes away from it being "ultimate".
Chandra the Crazy Redhead- 1RR
+1: Put loyalty counters on ~ equal to twice the number of red instants/sorceries you played this turn.
-3: ~ deals 3 damage to target creature and 2 damage to that creature's controller.
-6: You get an emblem with: "Whenever you cast a red instant/sorcery spell, put an X/X phoenix token with flying onto the battlefield where x is that spells converted mana cost."
3
How about instead of twice it merely counts the bonus as the amount of red spells in GY?
That would make her synergize with overall Red burning or looting and should provide her with a body to withstand a few hits. Costs on the other abilities may have to be adjusted accordingly.
The suggested design is more focused around a combo-turn where you actually hold back your spells, while I do like a choice-opportunity it seems not really in the spirit of Red flavor.
Wouldn't it make more sense to let her gain counters for damage dealt? That would make her function outside burn-decks. Perhaps have an extreme color-conditional MC RRR - just to make sure she doesn't get into some strange multi-color nightmare? I do realize now that Desperate Ritual and co. could fix her up for this or merely multicolor fixing lands but still.
I guess I'd just rather prefer her to be easier to use early or function in the ways of Sarkhan Maddog -> where everything just eventually goes down.
Wouldn't it make more sense to let her gain counters for damage dealt? That would make her function outside burn-decks.
Pretty much every form of Chandra follows the same pattern: light burn damage with a sub-theme of instants/sorceries. I originally thought of making her gain counters for damage, but i didn't want to make her interact with creatures and stuff like Staff of Nin.
I love your other suggestions however, and have made a new form that costs RRR but can burn for 2 on the turn it enters.
1RR
+1: Deal 2 damage to target creature or player
-2: One sided Pyroclasm
-X: Deal X damage to each creature and each player. This damage can not be prevented.
Loyalty 3
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currently playing:
Standard UW Control UWB Control UB Control MODERN BRGJund X Affinity UWR Control
That alone should say OP. That's basically a Miracled Bonfire of the Damned for 2 that allows Chandra to stay on the board. She'd have to be 5+ mana for that (non-Miracle Bonfire x=2 mana at least).
HOW ABOUT.... 1RR CHANDRA!
+1: ~ deals 2 damage to each player
-2: cast target instant or sorcery with converted mana cost 2 or less from your graveyard without paying its mana cost [this is the new red ability]
-4: ~ deals 4 damage to target creature or player
starting loyalty: 3
That alone should say OP. That's basically a Miracled Bonfire of the Damned for 2 that allows Chandra to stay on the board. She'd have to be 5+ mana for that (non-Miracle Bonfire x=2 mana at least).
HOW ABOUT.... 1RR CHANDRA!
+1: ~ deals 2 damage to each player
-2: cast target instant or sorcery with converted mana cost 2 or less from your graveyard without paying its mana cost [this is the new red ability]
-4: ~ deals 4 damage to target creature or player
starting loyalty: 3
All are abilities which already exist within red. And we know that one of the new Chandra's abilities is entirely new to the color.
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
The guy is supposedly another planeswalker named Ramaz, who had Chandra grab the dragon scroll. But anyways, I would enjoy seeing Chandra as a 3 mana walker. Her first ability would most likely hit all players, following the trend of Jace 1.0 and Lili 2.0. I cant see her first ability not being some form of damage dealt with the reprinting of Chandra's Phoenix. I cant even begin to speculate her other abilities if one is supposed to be a brand new ability. Maybe spawning the 1/1 elementals that are popping up the core set? I dont think Red walkers have had any creature summonings outside of Koth.
EDIT: completely forgot about Sarkhan and his dragons.
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"There is no greater folly than standing against me."
—Nicol Bolas
Good Chandra RRR
+2 Good Chandra does 1 damage to target creature each opponent controls and one to each opponent then does 1 damage to target creature you control and 1 to you
-3 Good Chandra does x damage divided anyway you choose to target player or creature where x is how many loyalty counters Good Chandra has
-8 choose a basic land type destroy all lands of chosen type then do X damage to target player or creature where X is the amount of lands destroyed this turn
The new Chandra, regardless of eventual CC, has been confirmed to have an ability that has never been in red before. It is entirely pointless to speculate about the new Chandra when you only give it abilities that already exist in red.
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
Due to the amount of 1/1 red elementals in the spoilers so far, I think it's fair to assume that she might have something there.
RRR
+1 Shock
-2 Put 2 1/1 red elemntal tokens into play
-6 Deal 6 damage to three tagets
3 starting loyalty
The triple red cost keeps decks like Jund from having more removal than they have now, as well as giving a large boon to mostly red players. Although the shock on a stick might be a bit broken. But with the size and amounts of creatures in standard now, we need it.
Due to the amount of 1/1 red elementals in the spoilers so far, I think it's fair to assume that she might have something there.
RRR
+1 Shock
-2 Put 2 1/1 red elemntal tokens into play
-6 Deal 6 damage to three tagets
3 starting loyalty
The triple red cost keeps decks like Jund from having more removal than they have now, as well as giving a large boon to mostly red players. Although the shock on a stick might be a bit broken. But with the size and amounts of creatures in standard now, we need it.
All three abilities are something red can already do, and as I have reiterated several times in this thread already: MaRo has confirmed that the M14 Chandra will have an ability that has never been seen on a red card before.
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
I have a gut feeling that Chandra 4.0's +1 will deal damage, yet be different from all other Chandra +X's. I also have a gut feeling that Chandra 4.0 will be 3 cmc.
Thus, my guess is something like this:
Chandra 4.01RR
Planeswalker - Chandra
+1: Reveal the top card of your library. If it's a red instant or sorcery card, Chandra 4.0 deals 2 damage to target creature or player.
-2: Return target red card from your graveyard to your hand.
-7: Player-targeting Destructive Force, also deals 5 damage to that player
[3]
The +1 could also be "Reveal the top card of your library. If it's a red card, Chandra 4.0 deals 1 damage to target creature or player."
If they're pushing Chandra 4.0 as much as they're hyping her, I feel like she needs a CMC of 3. Anything less will produce something as niche and unwieldy as Tibalt. Anything more is too slow for a lot of red decks.
Regarding her ability that's new to red, I have no idea what it could be. It obviously isn't burn, land destruction, or exile (remember pillar of flame), and I doubt this opportunity would be wasted on lifegain or regular removal.
Just a suggestion for the new ability:
Why not a new form of card draw?
Seriously, it sounds ridiculous and I know many people would hate it... but Red is still the only colour without any real access to pure, card-drawing engines.
Blue, Green and Black all have excellent sources and while White has a few odd ones here and there, it can generally work around the issue with huge token and cantrip production. On the other hand, Red has reached a point (thanks to power creep) where its lack of true CA is no longer defining it as distinct from the other colours. Instead, it just presents both a serious disadvantage for any non-aggro red variant, and a crippling hurdle for card designers. Wheel of Fate and Knollspine Dragon effects are out there, but they are far too uncommon and make you jump through the annoying hoop of lowering your hand size to get the goods.
Im not saying the CA needs to be Divination or anything; there are plenty of ways to make it red. Just as green draws cards with Garruk, Primal Hunter's -3 and white can draw with Mentor of the Meek.
Red needs this and needs it badly. Im sure red EDH players everywhere would agree that playing with the same set of 25 expensive artifacts gets tiring after a while. And standard red mages are sick of being limited to RDW if they are playing mono or light splashes of non-red.
Just a suggestion for the new ability:
Why not card advantage?
Seriously, it sounds ridiculous and I know many people would hate it... but Red is still the only colour without any real access to pure, card-drawing engines.
How about an ability that grants an emblem that says "At the end of each turn, if an opponent has been dealt X or more damage, draw a card"
This sounds like it could easily give Red card advantage while realistically being within Red's color pie. Damage amount could be modified for balance purposes. However, it would probably limit Chandra's mana cost to something with RRR in it to account for Standard's powerful mana fixing.
I'd prefer they'd just print pyroclasm and not have me have to get a walker to have that effect.. It is pretty clear from everyone's attempts at making chandra the #1 thing they want to see is Pryoclasm.... why not just give us the card?
I think I might just be a little selfish and want a walker no one likes again so I can afford to use her. I have great work out of firebrand. If she is good I wont be able to afford her :S.
I guess I am just going to have to be patient and wait and see... she is going to probably be the first spoiled at least.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
Perfect
Chandra the Renegade- RRR
+0: Put loyalty counters on ~ equal to the amount of red instants/sorceries in your graveyard.
-2: ~ deals 2 damage to target creature and 2 damage to that creature's controller.
-8: You get an emblem with: "Whenever you cast a red instant/sorcery spell, put an X/X phoenix token with flying onto the battlefield where x is that spells converted mana cost."
(Aaaaaaaaw yeaaaaah)
The ultimate's way too easily achieved through the first effect. I play this and two Lightning Bolts, Burst Lightnings, or whatever, and instantly get to put five loyalty counters on it. Even if I only played one, I'm already able to pay for the ultimate. You'd definitely have to reword the first effect or up the cost of the ultimate for this to be printable.
Not sure what the never before seen in red effect will be, but I'm really hoping it's not something super gimmicky, but still is more interesting than an offspring of a generic red ability like burn or drawing and discarding.
I appreciate the feedback, but i disagree... in a red burn deck, tapping out T3 for a 4 loyalty planeswalker then having her do nothing again on the second turn is actually a huge drawback. The fact that she's just a sub-par removal spell otherwise makes her relatively fair imo.
After those 2 bolts, bursts, or whatever your hand is already down two red instants/sorceries as well, making the ult way weaker. I made her specify "red" spells in order to avoid an overly powerful R/U control deck built around her and cheap cantrips.
Plus most of her phoenix's will be less than 3/3.
EDIT: My greatest hope is to have another red walker that retains it's use during the lategame. I loved Koth because he promoted an unusual form of red that gives us something besides burn and aggro to try (Big Red).
Good points for sure, wasn't really thinking about that.
I still don't think the ultimate should be so easy to pay for, after all, it is an ultimate; it being easy to pay for kind of takes away from it being "ultimate".
How about instead of twice it merely counts the bonus as the amount of red spells in GY?
That would make her synergize with overall Red burning or looting and should provide her with a body to withstand a few hits. Costs on the other abilities may have to be adjusted accordingly.
The suggested design is more focused around a combo-turn where you actually hold back your spells, while I do like a choice-opportunity it seems not really in the spirit of Red flavor.
Wouldn't it make more sense to let her gain counters for damage dealt? That would make her function outside burn-decks. Perhaps have an extreme color-conditional MC RRR - just to make sure she doesn't get into some strange multi-color nightmare? I do realize now that Desperate Ritual and co. could fix her up for this or merely multicolor fixing lands but still.
I guess I'd just rather prefer her to be easier to use early or function in the ways of Sarkhan Maddog -> where everything just eventually goes down.
Pretty much every form of Chandra follows the same pattern: light burn damage with a sub-theme of instants/sorceries. I originally thought of making her gain counters for damage, but i didn't want to make her interact with creatures and stuff like Staff of Nin.
I love your other suggestions however, and have made a new form that costs RRR but can burn for 2 on the turn it enters.
Chandra Flamebringer
1RR
+1: Deal 2 damage to target creature or player
-2: One sided Pyroclasm
-X: Deal X damage to each creature and each player. This damage can not be prevented.
Loyalty 3
currently playing:
Standard
UW Control
UWB Control
UB Control
MODERN
BRGJund
X Affinity
UWR Control
LEGACY
Dredge
R Burn
UWx Miracles
EDH
BRW Kaalia
______
Quotes:
My Magic Card nicknames.
That alone should say OP. That's basically a Miracled Bonfire of the Damned for 2 that allows Chandra to stay on the board. She'd have to be 5+ mana for that (non-Miracle Bonfire x=2 mana at least).
HOW ABOUT.... 1RR CHANDRA!
+1: ~ deals 2 damage to each player
-2: cast target instant or sorcery with converted mana cost 2 or less from your graveyard without paying its mana cost [this is the new red ability]
-4: ~ deals 4 damage to target creature or player
starting loyalty: 3
All are abilities which already exist within red. And we know that one of the new Chandra's abilities is entirely new to the color.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
http://youtu.be/7CXxkkaab6g?t=8m
EDIT: completely forgot about Sarkhan and his dragons.
—Nicol Bolas
+2 Good Chandra does 1 damage to target creature each opponent controls and one to each opponent then does 1 damage to target creature you control and 1 to you
-3 Good Chandra does x damage divided anyway you choose to target player or creature where x is how many loyalty counters Good Chandra has
-8 choose a basic land type destroy all lands of chosen type then do X damage to target player or creature where X is the amount of lands destroyed this turn
Starting loyalty 2
My take...
The new Chandra, regardless of eventual CC, has been confirmed to have an ability that has never been in red before. It is entirely pointless to speculate about the new Chandra when you only give it abilities that already exist in red.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
RRR
+1 Shock
-2 Put 2 1/1 red elemntal tokens into play
-6 Deal 6 damage to three tagets
3 starting loyalty
The triple red cost keeps decks like Jund from having more removal than they have now, as well as giving a large boon to mostly red players. Although the shock on a stick might be a bit broken. But with the size and amounts of creatures in standard now, we need it.
Current Standard Decks:
BRVampiresRB
All three abilities are something red can already do, and as I have reiterated several times in this thread already: MaRo has confirmed that the M14 Chandra will have an ability that has never been seen on a red card before.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
Thus, my guess is something like this:
The +1 could also be "Reveal the top card of your library. If it's a red card, Chandra 4.0 deals 1 damage to target creature or player."
Regarding her ability that's new to red, I have no idea what it could be. It obviously isn't burn, land destruction, or exile (remember pillar of flame), and I doubt this opportunity would be wasted on lifegain or regular removal.
Why not a new form of card draw?
Seriously, it sounds ridiculous and I know many people would hate it... but Red is still the only colour without any real access to pure, card-drawing engines.
Blue, Green and Black all have excellent sources and while White has a few odd ones here and there, it can generally work around the issue with huge token and cantrip production. On the other hand, Red has reached a point (thanks to power creep) where its lack of true CA is no longer defining it as distinct from the other colours. Instead, it just presents both a serious disadvantage for any non-aggro red variant, and a crippling hurdle for card designers. Wheel of Fate and Knollspine Dragon effects are out there, but they are far too uncommon and make you jump through the annoying hoop of lowering your hand size to get the goods.
Im not saying the CA needs to be Divination or anything; there are plenty of ways to make it red. Just as green draws cards with Garruk, Primal Hunter's -3 and white can draw with Mentor of the Meek.
Red needs this and needs it badly. Im sure red EDH players everywhere would agree that playing with the same set of 25 expensive artifacts gets tiring after a while. And standard red mages are sick of being limited to RDW if they are playing mono or light splashes of non-red.
How about an ability that grants an emblem that says "At the end of each turn, if an opponent has been dealt X or more damage, draw a card"
This sounds like it could easily give Red card advantage while realistically being within Red's color pie. Damage amount could be modified for balance purposes. However, it would probably limit Chandra's mana cost to something with RRR in it to account for Standard's powerful mana fixing.
Currently Playing:
I don't even know right now.
I just don't know how they can do it without breaking the colour pie and keeping it in theme with Chandra.
I thought they would be boring and make it another tap down effect.. but then Mugging exists so already on a red card.
Grrr I am thinking it will have to be something completely new... or very obscue.
Even damage to planeswalkers has been done on red magmaquake
aether flash seems like a nice emblem to make for chandra.. maybe ulti may be neg ability. but still red.
I maintain that I think if it is stealing from any colours colour pie it has to be blacks.
how about
"Search your library for a red instant or sorcery with cmc 2 or less"
oh wait gamble :S
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own