I saw the last one, but decided to leave it out because you needed all the other colors. I'm not sure how I missed those first two, especially since I did a search on "Phoenix".
I think it's worth mentioning again that just because MaRo phrased it as an ability that is new to red, it doesn't necessarily have to be an ability that is simply being borrowed or added from another color. With all the hype involved in making Chandra the face of the set, I wouldn't be surprised if it was an ability that we've never seen on any planeswalker before. Whether it ends up being a good ability is another matter entirely, but I feel pretty certain that it'll be something brand new.
AdamM, your suggested Chandra's +1 is too close to the 6-cmc Sorin Markov's +2. I'd honestly expect your Chandra to cost 5 mana with that +1.
The "never seen before" mechanic in my card was "Return target red card from your graveyard to your hand". Red can recur random cards, instants, sorceries, and Phoenix creatures, but never red cards. ...At least, am I doing it right?
I just have a feeling that Chandra 4.0's new mechanic to red will feel like it fits right into Red's slice of the colour pie (as opposed to the stretches that feel like they'd come from Planar Chaos). Heck, I think it'll be derived from stereotypically Red stuff.
Technically, the instant tutor ability is already on a red card in the form of Wild Research. It is a blue ability on a red card and it does have the added stipulation of a random discard after the tutor, but it is there in some form. Besides, red being able to have a straight-forward tutor ability just doesn't seem very red to me.
It had bounce as the Gone half of Dead // Gone, and Kuldotha Pheonix seems to be the only mono red effect that puts a creature from the graveyard into play.
+1: ~ Deals 2 damage to target creature or player. A creature dealt damage this way cannot block this turn.
I really think that Mugging on a +1 ability is incredibly optimistic. It is far more likely on a -1/-2/-3 ability, if at all. Other planeswalkers that deal direct damage to creatures are: Ral Zarek (-2), Ajani Vengeant (-2), Chandra Nalaar -X, Domri Rade -2 fight, Garruk Relentless -X (fighting).
Other planeswalkers with removal: Karn, Liliana, JTMS, Nicol Bolas, Sarkhan (both), Vraska, all have it as their second, minus ability. The only exceptions are: Chandra Ablaze has +1 for conditional 4 damage, but at 6CMC. Sorin Markov +2 = 2 damage/gain 2 life, but also at 6 CMC. I would be surprised to see new Chandra doing more than 1 damage on a +1/+2 ability.
looking at Chandra's phoenix and thinking that "what red never had before" should be an ultimatum if it's so special, here's my guess:
Chandra 2RR
+1: Deals 2 damage to target creature or player. Could also be deals 1 damage and if creature would die this turn it's exiled instead (Hi VoR)
-2: Whenever an instant or sorcery would deal damage this turn, it deals that amount +2
-X: Return all creatures from your graveyard to the battlefield, they gain haste (and maybe +X/+0/trample/first strike). Destroy those creatures at the end of turn.
now coming back from the dead has been a self-ability for red, don't know if one card was bringing others back, correct me if i'm wrong
Still waiting to be blown away by New Chandra. Quite Frankly, the reprinting of this Liliana...well just reading her she seems very bad. I am not even sure I would have her in a casual kitchen table deck. Memory Adept I hope has New art. Ajani...I guess we saw that coming. Garruk is still pretty good making DAT 3/3 beast. Well I can really say m14 looks like a singles set for me...Even the mythics seem underwhelming, in comparison to something like a Thundermaw Hellkite.
Can somebody please tell me what they think the sleeper card of the set is so far?
If Chandra is bad....well Effff.
looking at Chandra's phoenix and thinking that "what red never had before" should be an ultimatum if it's so special, here's my guess:
Chandra 2RR
+1: Deals 2 damage to target creature or player. Could also be deals 1 damage and if creature would die this turn it's exiled instead (Hi VoR)
-2: Whenever an instant or sorcery would deal damage this turn, it deals that amount +2
-X: Return all creatures from your graveyard to the battlefield, they gain haste (and maybe +X/+0/trample/first strike). Destroy those creatures at the end of turn.
now coming back from the dead has been a self-ability for red, don't know if one card was bringing others back, correct me if i'm wrong
That ultimate is very, very, very black, not red. Please try again.
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That ultimate is very, very, very black, not red. Please try again.
You're right, but then again, something red never had before, sounds like another colour had it and it's hard to take something from white or blue (though vice versa it has happened, cough, cough). Red always came close to resurrecting things but not really had it. At the same time, sac it at the end of turn makes sense, it's not as permanent as black is..
If not graveyard abuse, then how about permanently taking control of opponent's creatures? Maybe sac X red creatures, gain control of X opponents creatures for example
Since she has an ability that is "new," my prediction is that it would be the ultimate. Something akin to Jace, the Mind Sculptor's ultimate. Game winning, not a common effect, and putting it on an ultimate would be safe enough to not give red a new mechanic that would break how it operates within the format.
I am fairly confident if they are introducing something never before seen to red, it will be at the safest level possible, not the riskiest (unless of course it is a silly, clearly not overpowered effect). My 2 cents.
You're right, but then again, something red never had before, sounds like another colour had it and it's hard to take something from white or blue (though vice versa it has happened, cough, cough). Red always came close to resurrecting things but not really had it. At the same time, sac it at the end of turn makes sense, it's not as permanent as black is..
If not graveyard abuse, then how about permanently taking control of opponent's creatures? Maybe sac X red creatures, gain control of X opponents creatures for example
He never said it was from another color.
Remember, it needs to be something that makes sense in red, and animating the dead does not make sense in red.
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
Quite Frankly, the reprinting of this Liliana...well just reading her she seems very bad. I am not even sure I would have her in a casual kitchen table deck.
I've played with dark realms a lot. Believe it or not, she is good -not great by any stretch of the imagination- but good.
- She fetches shock lands and sets up mutilate sweeps.
- She replaces herself when she hits the field and thins your deck nicely.
- She can make any lifelink creature (especially vampire nighthawk) into a massively swingy beater.
- She is removal when you need it.
People mostly seem to hate her because they compare her to the ridiculously overpowered veil lili. Try her out as a two-of in a 4-colour control deck with a bunch of swamp shocks, she will surprise you.
Back on topic, I think it would be kinda cool if Chandra turns out to be the first XCMC planes walker:
Chandra, RenegadeRRX
+1: At the beginning of your next upkeep, each opponent that did not cast a spell last turn takes 4 damage.
-1: Chandra deals damage equal to her loyalty to target creature or player.
-7: You get an emblem with "Spells you control have split second"
X
Can you tell what kind of player I hate? Molten Disaster ftw!
I've played with dark realms a lot. Believe it or not, she is good -not great by any stretch of the imagination- but good.
- She fetches shock lands and sets up mutilate sweeps.
- She replaces herself when she hits the field and thins your deck nicely.
- She can make any lifelink creature (especially vampire nighthawk) into a massively swingy beater.
- She is removal when you need it.
People mostly seem to hate her because they compare her to the ridiculously overpowered veil lili. Try her out as a two-of in a 4-colour control deck with a bunch of swamp shocks, she will surprise you.
Back on topic, I think it would be kinda cool if Chandra turns out to be the first XCMC planes walker:
Chandra, RenegadeRRX
+1: At the beginning of your next upkeep, each opponent that did not cast a spell last turn takes 4 damage.
-1: Chandra deals damage equal to her loyalty to target creature or player.
-7: You get an emblem with "Spells you control have split second"
X
Can you tell what kind of player I hate? Molten Disaster ftw!
Split Second is not going to appear in M14. Not only is it not NWO friendly, if it against all odds had been in the set, we would have seen cards with it by now.
It is implied heavily by saying "An ability red has never had before."
If it's just a new ability in general, he wouldn't single red out, or probably even mention it.
MaRo is very fond of exact words. He did not claim anywhere that it was an ability that exists in other colors (although it is very likely). However, this does not change the fact that Reanimation already exists in red in the form of Phoenixes, thus eliminating it as a possibility.
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Split Second is not going to appear in M14. Not only is it not NWO friendly, if it against all odds had been in the set, we would have seen cards with it by now.
I understand, but pw ultimates have never really coincided with the surrounding set. They just act as swingy, often game ending effects. Maybe a functionally identical effect without the keyword?
"As long as spells you control are on the stack, players can't cast spells or activate abilities that aren't mana abilities."
Other than that, what did you think of the + ability? I like the idea of punishing draw-go players in different ways and I am really hoping the "new red ability" isn't some super gimmicky ultimate.
I understand, but pw ultimates have never really coincided with the surrounding set. They just act as swingy, often game ending effects. Maybe a functionally identical effect without the keyword?
"As long as spells you control are on the stack, players can't cast spells or activate abilities that aren't mana abilities."
Other than that, what did you think of the + ability? I like the idea of punishing draw-go players in different ways and I am really hoping the "new red ability" isn't some super gimmicky ultimate.
The plus ability is interesting, but I don't think it fits Chandra's personality. It requires forethought, something that she apparently lacks.
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Split Second is not going to appear in M14. Not only is it not NWO friendly, if it against all odds had been in the set, we would have seen cards with it by now.
NWO only applies to commons. The bigger problem is that the only reference to the stack in any card in a core set ever is ending the turn (and even then the reference was in the reminder text).
MaRo is very fond of exact words. He did not claim anywhere that it was an ability that exists in other colors (although it is very likely). However, this does not change the fact that Reanimation already exists in red in the form of Phoenixes, thus eliminating it as a possibility.
Since he is so precise he would have left out the red qualifier, which is unnecessary unless it is a color pie bleed. (A new ability is just as accurate in your theorized case).
Only other problem I see is the draw-go punishment is a bit hard to phrase correctly, although adding "their" may be enough to make it workable.
You're right, but then again, something red never had before, sounds like another colour had it and it's hard to take something from white or blue (though vice versa it has happened, cough, cough). Red always came close to resurrecting things but not really had it. At the same time, sac it at the end of turn makes sense, it's not as permanent as black is..
If not graveyard abuse, then how about permanently taking control of opponent's creatures? Maybe sac X red creatures, gain control of X opponents creatures for example
The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of red adapting temporary reanimation. It already steals creatures temporarily, why not reanimate them temporarily? Heck, with Phoenixes in red, the flavor can easily make sense. It also gives red a built-in way to deal with graveyards. This Guy makes sense flavor wise, why not make it a common thing?
NWO only applies to commons. The bigger problem is that the only reference to the stack in any card in a core set ever is ending the turn (and even then the reference was in the reminder text).
Since he is so precise he would have left out the red qualifier, which is unnecessary unless it is a color pie bleed. (A new ability is just as accurate in your theorized case).
Only other problem I see is the draw-go punishment is a bit hard to phrase correctly, although adding "their" may be enough to make it workable.
MaRo (and the rest of the people who make the sets) will not put a mechanic in the core set unless it can be put on commons.
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Here's a thought. The rules change affected Indestructible but we haven't seen it on any cards yet. I peeked at Gatherer and Indestrictible in red is always paired with white, or an ability to make artifacts indestructible for a turn or divinity counters, which isn't technically indestructible.
Maybe Chandra's new red ability is to do with Indestructible? Like her -2 ability "creatures you control gain haste and indestructible until your next turn"
Or something like that.
That doesn't seem to fit a *Pyromancer*.
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Just so that we can clear up what might or might not be realistic for our new Chandra, here is my attempt at a full breakdown of all things Chandra.
As a planeswalker her abilities have been as follows (listed chronologically):
First ability (+)
+1: Chandra Nalaar deals 1 damage to target player.
+1: Discard a card. If a red card is discarded this way, Chandra Ablaze deals 4 damage to target creature or player.
+1: Chandra, the Firebrand deals 1 damage to target creature or player.
Second ability (-)
-X: Chandra Nalaar deals X damage to target creature.
-2: Each player discards his or her hand, then draws three cards.
-2: When you cast your next instant or sorcery spell this turn, copy that spell. You may choose new targets for the copy.
Third ability (ultimate)
-8: Chandra Nalaar deals 10 damage to target player and each creature he or she controls.
-7: Cast any number of red instant and/or sorcery cards from your graveyard without paying their mana costs.
-6: Chandra, the Firebrand deals 6 damage to each of up to six target creatures and/or players.
Hopefully my way of listing all of her abilities wasn't too confusing. I chose to list them this was to show the progression she is making from one iteration to the next.
So to summarize, any of the effects which have been printed on Chandra's planeswalker cards should be considered fair game for a similar effect being used in the future. Additionally, any cards which reference her in some way could probably also be considered fair game, though to a lesser extent perhaps. Lastly, any ability on any card I have listed here will not count as the "new" ability, since it has obviously already been on a red card. So the new ability should be something which does not overlap with anything I have listed.
What about an ultimate that is Furnace of Rath on an emblem.
1RR
Starting Loyalty: 3
+1: Deal 3 damage divided as you choose among one, two, or three target creatures
-2: Discard a red card: Deal its converted mana cost in damage to target creature or player
-7: You get an emblem with "Double the damage dealt to your opponents and creatures your opponents control"
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Level 1 Judge
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
The "never seen before" mechanic in my card was "Return target red card from your graveyard to your hand". Red can recur random cards, instants, sorceries, and Phoenix creatures, but never red cards. ...At least, am I doing it right?
I just have a feeling that Chandra 4.0's new mechanic to red will feel like it fits right into Red's slice of the colour pie (as opposed to the stretches that feel like they'd come from Planar Chaos). Heck, I think it'll be derived from stereotypically Red stuff.
Also Stingscourger
I really think that Mugging on a +1 ability is incredibly optimistic. It is far more likely on a -1/-2/-3 ability, if at all. Other planeswalkers that deal direct damage to creatures are: Ral Zarek (-2), Ajani Vengeant (-2), Chandra Nalaar -X, Domri Rade -2 fight, Garruk Relentless -X (fighting).
Other planeswalkers with removal: Karn, Liliana, JTMS, Nicol Bolas, Sarkhan (both), Vraska, all have it as their second, minus ability. The only exceptions are:
Chandra Ablaze has +1 for conditional 4 damage, but at 6CMC.
Sorin Markov +2 = 2 damage/gain 2 life, but also at 6 CMC. I would be surprised to see new Chandra doing more than 1 damage on a +1/+2 ability.
Chandra 2RR
+1: Deals 2 damage to target creature or player. Could also be deals 1 damage and if creature would die this turn it's exiled instead (Hi VoR)
-2: Whenever an instant or sorcery would deal damage this turn, it deals that amount +2
-X: Return all creatures from your graveyard to the battlefield, they gain haste (and maybe +X/+0/trample/first strike). Destroy those creatures at the end of turn.
now coming back from the dead has been a self-ability for red, don't know if one card was bringing others back, correct me if i'm wrong
Can somebody please tell me what they think the sleeper card of the set is so far?
If Chandra is bad....well Effff.
That ultimate is very, very, very black, not red. Please try again.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
You're right, but then again, something red never had before, sounds like another colour had it and it's hard to take something from white or blue (though vice versa it has happened, cough, cough). Red always came close to resurrecting things but not really had it. At the same time, sac it at the end of turn makes sense, it's not as permanent as black is..
If not graveyard abuse, then how about permanently taking control of opponent's creatures? Maybe sac X red creatures, gain control of X opponents creatures for example
I am fairly confident if they are introducing something never before seen to red, it will be at the safest level possible, not the riskiest (unless of course it is a silly, clearly not overpowered effect). My 2 cents.
MTGS egos at their finest.
Thoughts on proxies:
He never said it was from another color.
Remember, it needs to be something that makes sense in red, and animating the dead does not make sense in red.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
Chandra of the Phoenix
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
I've played with dark realms a lot. Believe it or not, she is good -not great by any stretch of the imagination- but good.
- She fetches shock lands and sets up mutilate sweeps.
- She replaces herself when she hits the field and thins your deck nicely.
- She can make any lifelink creature (especially vampire nighthawk) into a massively swingy beater.
- She is removal when you need it.
People mostly seem to hate her because they compare her to the ridiculously overpowered veil lili. Try her out as a two-of in a 4-colour control deck with a bunch of swamp shocks, she will surprise you.
Back on topic, I think it would be kinda cool if Chandra turns out to be the first XCMC planes walker:
Chandra, Renegade RRX
+1: At the beginning of your next upkeep, each opponent that did not cast a spell last turn takes 4 damage.
-1: Chandra deals damage equal to her loyalty to target creature or player.
-7: You get an emblem with "Spells you control have split second"
X
Can you tell what kind of player I hate? Molten Disaster ftw!
Split Second is not going to appear in M14. Not only is it not NWO friendly, if it against all odds had been in the set, we would have seen cards with it by now.
MaRo is very fond of exact words. He did not claim anywhere that it was an ability that exists in other colors (although it is very likely). However, this does not change the fact that Reanimation already exists in red in the form of Phoenixes, thus eliminating it as a possibility.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
I understand, but pw ultimates have never really coincided with the surrounding set. They just act as swingy, often game ending effects. Maybe a functionally identical effect without the keyword?
"As long as spells you control are on the stack, players can't cast spells or activate abilities that aren't mana abilities."
Other than that, what did you think of the + ability? I like the idea of punishing draw-go players in different ways and I am really hoping the "new red ability" isn't some super gimmicky ultimate.
The plus ability is interesting, but I don't think it fits Chandra's personality. It requires forethought, something that she apparently lacks.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
NWO only applies to commons. The bigger problem is that the only reference to the stack in any card in a core set ever is ending the turn (and even then the reference was in the reminder text).
Since he is so precise he would have left out the red qualifier, which is unnecessary unless it is a color pie bleed. (A new ability is just as accurate in your theorized case).
Only other problem I see is the draw-go punishment is a bit hard to phrase correctly, although adding "their" may be enough to make it workable.
The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of red adapting temporary reanimation. It already steals creatures temporarily, why not reanimate them temporarily? Heck, with Phoenixes in red, the flavor can easily make sense. It also gives red a built-in way to deal with graveyards. This Guy makes sense flavor wise, why not make it a common thing?
I could see cards like Postmortem Lunge and Gruesome Encore being red.
I already have a name for the card. "Rekindle" or "Spark the Heart"
This doesn't have to be on Chandra, just an idea for the future of red as a color.
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MaRo (and the rest of the people who make the sets) will not put a mechanic in the core set unless it can be put on commons.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
That doesn't seem to fit a *Pyromancer*.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
Just so that we can clear up what might or might not be realistic for our new Chandra, here is my attempt at a full breakdown of all things Chandra.
As a planeswalker her abilities have been as follows (listed chronologically):
First ability (+)
+1: Chandra Nalaar deals 1 damage to target player.
+1: Discard a card. If a red card is discarded this way, Chandra Ablaze deals 4 damage to target creature or player.
+1: Chandra, the Firebrand deals 1 damage to target creature or player.
Second ability (-)
-X: Chandra Nalaar deals X damage to target creature.
-2: Each player discards his or her hand, then draws three cards.
-2: When you cast your next instant or sorcery spell this turn, copy that spell. You may choose new targets for the copy.
Third ability (ultimate)
-8: Chandra Nalaar deals 10 damage to target player and each creature he or she controls.
-7: Cast any number of red instant and/or sorcery cards from your graveyard without paying their mana costs.
-6: Chandra, the Firebrand deals 6 damage to each of up to six target creatures and/or players.
Hopefully my way of listing all of her abilities wasn't too confusing. I chose to list them this was to show the progression she is making from one iteration to the next.
Additionally, as far as I can tell she has been featured or referenced in 14 other cards:
Inferno Elemental (flavor text)
Magma Rift (flavor text)
Rumbling Aftershocks (flavor text)
Seismic Shudder (flavor text)
Chandra's Spitfire (name, art, presumably flavor text)
Pyroclasm (flavor text)
Chandra's Outrage (name, art, flavor text)
Chandra's Phoenix (name, art)
Circle of Flame (flavor text)
Chandra's Fury (name, art, flavor text)
Craterize (flavor text)
Flames of the Firebrand (name, art, flavor text)
Incinerate (flavor text, and was included in Chandra's duel deck)
Seal of Fire (flavor text, and was included in Chandra's duel deck)
So to summarize, any of the effects which have been printed on Chandra's planeswalker cards should be considered fair game for a similar effect being used in the future. Additionally, any cards which reference her in some way could probably also be considered fair game, though to a lesser extent perhaps. Lastly, any ability on any card I have listed here will not count as the "new" ability, since it has obviously already been on a red card. So the new ability should be something which does not overlap with anything I have listed.
TL;DR
1RR
Starting Loyalty: 3
+1: Deal 3 damage divided as you choose among one, two, or three target creatures
-2: Discard a red card: Deal its converted mana cost in damage to target creature or player
-7: You get an emblem with "Double the damage dealt to your opponents and creatures your opponents control"
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
+1 Tap up to two target lands. Those lands don't untap during their controllers next untap step.
Tiamat, Chromatic Dragon RWUBG
Planeswalker - Tiamat
[+1] Sit on Nicol Bolas
[+0] Wait for him to beg for mercy, rule the multiverse.
[-7] Not necessary, she is the ultimate.