I totally agree, Baryonyx. We need more variety in body types as well as variety in races and ethnicity. Chandra and Liliana are both the "rail-thin yet well-endowed" types that are utterly unrealistic yet omnipresent in fantasy. Elspeth and Tamiyo are a bit better, being more realistically proportioned, but we need more characters that reflect what people actually look like.
Verseau: Why can't someone be fat and cool?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Xantcha, Phyrexian Reject
Jodah, Archmage Eternal
Tovolar, Howlpack Alpha
Pivlic, Orzhov Informant
Crixizix, Master Engineer
Feather, Boros Peacekeeper
Marisi Coilbreaker
O-Kagachi
Gix, Phyrexian Praetor
Karn, Father of Machines
Yawgmoth, Father of Machines
Serra, Mother of All Angels
Tevesh Szat, Doom of Fools
Leshrac the Nightwalker
Jeska, the Thrice-Touched
Elspeth Returned
Crucius the Mad
Taysir the Infinite
Urza's Head (Unglued!)
"Theoretically an undead being with a spark could have that spark ignite"
There taken from daily mtg, so it's still possible for us to get a lich planeswalker
Uh huh... but you should put the rest of the quote on there to qualify the context because they say it's only THEORETICALLY possible but they aren't likely to do it because death has to mean something.
I totally agree, Baryonyx. We need more variety in body types as well as variety in races and ethnicity. Chandra and Liliana are both the "rail-thin yet well-endowed" types that are utterly unrealistic yet omnipresent in fantasy. Elspeth and Tamiyo are a bit better, being more realistically proportioned, but we need more characters that reflect what people actually look like.
Verseau: Why can't someone be fat and cool?
Magic is FANTASY, meaning things that are viewed as negative by society will not be included. For magic, this means fat/unnatractive/crippled people will not be represented.
Magic is FANTASY, meaning things that are viewed as negative by society will not be included. For magic, this means fat/unnatractive/crippled people will not be represented.
People need to deal with it.
I don't know how I can possibly disagree more with this statement. You're confusing fantasy with idealism; moreover, you're confusing it with YOUR idealism. Every person has a different view of what is "attractive" or "desirable." Fantasy can be used to tell as things about and explore our own reality, and people and things of all types most certainly have a place there.
Want to see other duel decks I made ? Check out my Blog ! Feel free to post advice or give topics for me to make duel decks out of. Check out the Theros Block Planeswalker Theme Duel Decks Elspeth, Xenagos, Ashok, Kiora, Ajani
I don't know how I can possibly disagree more with this statement. You're confusing fantasy with idealism; moreover, you're confusing it with YOUR idealism. Every person has a different view of what is "attractive" or "desirable." Fantasy can be used to tell as things about and explore our own reality, and people and things of all types most certainly have a place there.
Oh come off it. You know damn well that unattractive people are not "fantasy heroes". Yes, they can exist, but they are not the norm at all. There is a reason fantasy characters are almost always attractive....and it's because it IS idealism. Not mine, but the majorities. All people are not created equal, and the fantasy genre is the best example of this.
You can disagree all you want, but that doesn't stop what I said from being true.
I don't know how I can possibly disagree more with this statement. You're confusing fantasy with idealism; moreover, you're confusing it with YOUR idealism. Every person has a different view of what is "attractive" or "desirable." Fantasy can be used to tell as things about and explore our own reality, and people and things of all types most certainly have a place there.
Fantasy tends to incorporate lots of idyllic settings and character designs.
This should be accepted by anyone going into a work of fantasy, especially one including any modern representations of Elves.
Sex sells, and it so happens that certain types of bodies have a wider appeal.
I personally think that the trim bodies of the planeswalkers make them good role models. It shows they're active despite their freedom from responsibilities.
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
I may drool a bit for Lilliana of the Veil, but I think it would be interesting to see a planeswalker that looks like Torneko from Dragon Quest. Actually, instead of some young hot mage, how about a planeswalker whose spark ignited later in life?
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"People underestimate Bob at their peril." - Rayland Givens
I think a cycle of planeswalkers heavily inspired by famous figures from the Sword and Sorcery genre would be cool: Conan, Solomon Kane, Elric, Sonja, and a fifth one. They could be in a set or block that has an underlying theme of High Fantasy vs Sword and Sorcery vs Sci-Fi.
Magic is FANTASY, meaning things that are viewed as negative by society will not be included. For magic, this means fat/unnatractive/crippled people will not be represented.
People need to deal with it.
Oh come off it. You know damn well that unattractive people are not "fantasy heroes". Yes, they can exist, but they are not the norm at all. There is a reason fantasy characters are almost always attractive....and it's because it IS idealism. Not mine, but the majorities. All people are not created equal, and the fantasy genre is the best example of this.
You can disagree all you want, but that doesn't stop what I said from being true.
... I just can't possibly disagree more. Fantasy doesn’t include things that are viewed as negative by society? You mean like using magic to raise the dead as zombies, or set people on fire, or turn them into a frog? Why is necromancy more acceptable than depicting a fat person as more than comic relief or a villain, if at all?
Why? Because good guys are pretty. Pretty = good and ugly = bad. Fat = bad. Take a look through the history of Magic’s art, this trope shows up very clearly. The most prominent examples I can think of off the top of my head are the Cabal mages back in Onslaught block and more recently the Orzhov. You can glance at them and know immediately that they must be bad because they're fat and ugly, and no one fat or ugly could possibly be a good guy. This is not a harmless belief. For the conventionally-attractive kids who play Magic, or any other video game, or read comic books, or watch movies, and who always see the same images of pretty white people as the good guys and anyone else as a bad guy, this teaches them that others are less than they are. And for the fat people, or unattractive people, or disabled (NOT “crippled”) people who consume the same media, fantasy isn’t idealist or escapist the way you describe. It can’t be, because they’re not given role models like themselves.
Beyond any moral considerations of social constructs of beauty, unconventional heroes are interesting. Imagine a character who is heavily scarred, burnt, or otherwise disfigured. Such a character would almost always be a bad guy in most media. By presenting him or her sympathetically instead, you’ve created a character with a unique storytelling potential. Think Quasimodo, or Zuko, or Tyrion Lannister. Hell, think Charles Xavier, a disabled man. Sympathetic characters with just as much validity as any of their more conventionally attractive counterparts.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Xantcha, Phyrexian Reject
Jodah, Archmage Eternal
Tovolar, Howlpack Alpha
Pivlic, Orzhov Informant
Crixizix, Master Engineer
Feather, Boros Peacekeeper
Marisi Coilbreaker
O-Kagachi
Gix, Phyrexian Praetor
Karn, Father of Machines
Yawgmoth, Father of Machines
Serra, Mother of All Angels
Tevesh Szat, Doom of Fools
Leshrac the Nightwalker
Jeska, the Thrice-Touched
Elspeth Returned
Crucius the Mad
Taysir the Infinite
Urza's Head (Unglued!)
Anyhow, the best I can come up with myself is a game in the top 8 of a PTQ back during Urza block in which we were starting game 3 with time already expired, so the tiebreaker rule was that whoever had more life after 3 turns would win. And I lost to... healing salve.
Actually, that is EXACTLY what fantasy is. We can't really have this discussion if you're not going to accept the definition of the subject matter.
fan·ta·sy [fan-tuh-see, -zee] Show IPA noun, plural fan·ta·sies, verb, fan·ta·sied, fan·ta·sy·ing.
noun
1.
imagination, especially when extravagant and unrestrained.
2.
the forming of mental images, especially wondrous or strange fancies; imaginative conceptualizing.
3.
a mental image, especially when unreal or fantastic; vision: a nightmare fantasy.
4.
Psychology . an imagined or conjured up sequence fulfilling a psychological need; daydream.
5.
a hallucination.
That's what fantasy is. And frankly, there's no constraint. All it is is whatever the person wants, not what should be expected of.
That's what fantasy is. And frankly, there's no constraint. All it is is whatever the person wants, not what should be expected of.
No, that's where marketing comes in. You have to appeal to the mass demographic, including what is widely accepted as attractive, and not the niche markets.
Most people see obesity as a negative issue, and not something that we should see MORE of unless it is used in the familiar sense. Essentially, regardless of "fantasy", "marketing" has established things that work, and the bumbling tubby sidekick is one of them. The stalwart fat hero isn't.
How about a planeswalker that's a rare instead of mythic rare? Maybe even uncommon with mediocre abilities?
A colorless planeswalker would be cool. An Eldrazi planeswalker, maybe?
A new Tibalt with greater experience and better abilities would be neat.
Or maybe legendary creatures that are planeswalkers before their sparks ignited.
A prismatic planeswalker.
A double-sided legendary creature that flips into a planeswalker.
A planeswalker with hybrid mana symbols.
A new Nicol Bolas
A Goblin planeswalker
A past legendary creature that has turned into a planeswalker
A ghost planeswalker?
Irrelevant opinion: I want to see a sequal to Scars of Mirrodin with a good ending.
We desperately need more variety. Almost all of the planeswalkers we have now are some combination of 1) white 2) male 3) humans 4) in their mid-twenties. We have one black 'walker and one Asian 'walker, kind of - Sarkhan's ethnicity seems to change depending on the artist. We have a teenage 'walker now, which is an interesting idea I'd like to see explored a bit more.
Don't get me wrong, I like like a lot of our current characters. But considering the diversity of life we've seen throughout the game, there's so much more that WotC could be doing! Show us what the multiverse has to offer! Tamiyo was a nice touch, what about members of rare races that we're unlikely to see again, like cephalids? Even better, what about creating entirely new creatures from truly bizarre planes that they know they could never set a block on? But before any of that, I want to see a black woman!
I'd also love to eventually get to meet Ugin. We know he had a run-in with Bolas, but it was never stated that he was killed. And even if he was, well ... he is a *spirit* dragon, after all.
While I agree we need more variety, for god's SAKE, no more teenager walkers.
Jace already look very anime-ish in some of his versions, all Magic does NOT need is teenage, pointy-haired walkers, specially if they are good and I need to put them on my decks despite depising the art and concept.
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Alea iacta est
I'm a Spike Vorthos - I love lore and flavor, but only if the cards are competition worthy.
Verseau: Why can't someone be fat and cool?
Xantcha, Phyrexian Reject
Jodah, Archmage Eternal
Tovolar, Howlpack Alpha
Pivlic, Orzhov Informant
Crixizix, Master Engineer
Feather, Boros Peacekeeper
Marisi Coilbreaker
O-Kagachi
Gix, Phyrexian Praetor
Karn, Father of Machines
Yawgmoth, Father of Machines
Serra, Mother of All Angels
Tevesh Szat, Doom of Fools
Leshrac the Nightwalker
Jeska, the Thrice-Touched
Elspeth Returned
Crucius the Mad
Taysir the Infinite
Urza's Head (Unglued!)
Uh huh... but you should put the rest of the quote on there to qualify the context because they say it's only THEORETICALLY possible but they aren't likely to do it because death has to mean something.
It's the "brat" part that people don't like, not the "scrawny" part.
Magic is FANTASY, meaning things that are viewed as negative by society will not be included. For magic, this means fat/unnatractive/crippled people will not be represented.
People need to deal with it.
I don't know how I can possibly disagree more with this statement. You're confusing fantasy with idealism; moreover, you're confusing it with YOUR idealism. Every person has a different view of what is "attractive" or "desirable." Fantasy can be used to tell as things about and explore our own reality, and people and things of all types most certainly have a place there.
WUR Geist Midrange WUR
Commander
W Nahiri's Celestial Foundry W
WB Orzhov Inquisition (Cleric Tribal) WB
WUBRG Progenitus's Prismatic Domain WUBRG
WURG Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis Love You WURG
WUG Rafiq of the Many Auracrafting WUG
WRG Hazezon Tamar Overrun WRG
G Seton's Druid Ramp G
OR a Mad hermit walker!! who makes squirrel tokens.
PLEASE!!!
Decks used- GGarruk vs LilianaB, WElsepth vs TezzeretU, WGKnights vs DragonsR
WGRAjani vs BolasRUB, WUVenser vs KothR, RUIzzet vs GolgariGB.
WBSorin vs TibaltBR, WRHeros vs Monsters RG
Want to see other duel decks I made ? Check out my Blog ! Feel free to post advice or give topics for me to make duel decks out of. Check out the Theros Block Planeswalker Theme Duel Decks Elspeth, Xenagos, Ashok, Kiora, Ajani
Oh come off it. You know damn well that unattractive people are not "fantasy heroes". Yes, they can exist, but they are not the norm at all. There is a reason fantasy characters are almost always attractive....and it's because it IS idealism. Not mine, but the majorities. All people are not created equal, and the fantasy genre is the best example of this.
You can disagree all you want, but that doesn't stop what I said from being true.
Fantasy tends to incorporate lots of idyllic settings and character designs.
This should be accepted by anyone going into a work of fantasy, especially one including any modern representations of Elves.
Sex sells, and it so happens that certain types of bodies have a wider appeal.
I personally think that the trim bodies of the planeswalkers make them good role models. It shows they're active despite their freedom from responsibilities.
"OH GOD MY BRAIN IS EXPLOADING AT HOW BAD THE ART IS ON MY OWN CARD"
-A friend's first impression of Ancestral Recall
10/10, I tapped.
... I just can't possibly disagree more. Fantasy doesn’t include things that are viewed as negative by society? You mean like using magic to raise the dead as zombies, or set people on fire, or turn them into a frog? Why is necromancy more acceptable than depicting a fat person as more than comic relief or a villain, if at all?
Why? Because good guys are pretty. Pretty = good and ugly = bad. Fat = bad. Take a look through the history of Magic’s art, this trope shows up very clearly. The most prominent examples I can think of off the top of my head are the Cabal mages back in Onslaught block and more recently the Orzhov. You can glance at them and know immediately that they must be bad because they're fat and ugly, and no one fat or ugly could possibly be a good guy. This is not a harmless belief. For the conventionally-attractive kids who play Magic, or any other video game, or read comic books, or watch movies, and who always see the same images of pretty white people as the good guys and anyone else as a bad guy, this teaches them that others are less than they are. And for the fat people, or unattractive people, or disabled (NOT “crippled”) people who consume the same media, fantasy isn’t idealist or escapist the way you describe. It can’t be, because they’re not given role models like themselves.
Beyond any moral considerations of social constructs of beauty, unconventional heroes are interesting. Imagine a character who is heavily scarred, burnt, or otherwise disfigured. Such a character would almost always be a bad guy in most media. By presenting him or her sympathetically instead, you’ve created a character with a unique storytelling potential. Think Quasimodo, or Zuko, or Tyrion Lannister. Hell, think Charles Xavier, a disabled man. Sympathetic characters with just as much validity as any of their more conventionally attractive counterparts.
Xantcha, Phyrexian Reject
Jodah, Archmage Eternal
Tovolar, Howlpack Alpha
Pivlic, Orzhov Informant
Crixizix, Master Engineer
Feather, Boros Peacekeeper
Marisi Coilbreaker
O-Kagachi
Gix, Phyrexian Praetor
Karn, Father of Machines
Yawgmoth, Father of Machines
Serra, Mother of All Angels
Tevesh Szat, Doom of Fools
Leshrac the Nightwalker
Jeska, the Thrice-Touched
Elspeth Returned
Crucius the Mad
Taysir the Infinite
Urza's Head (Unglued!)
It has been said, and it has been refuted.
Actually, that is EXACTLY what fantasy is. We can't really have this discussion if you're not going to accept the definition of the subject matter.
Also, another 2-mana Tibalt, preferably R/B.
In fact, why not a (B/R)(B/R) Tibalt?
A (U/G) snake walker and (G/W) rhox walker would be cool too.
That's what fantasy is. And frankly, there's no constraint. All it is is whatever the person wants, not what should be expected of.
No, that's where marketing comes in. You have to appeal to the mass demographic, including what is widely accepted as attractive, and not the niche markets.
Most people see obesity as a negative issue, and not something that we should see MORE of unless it is used in the familiar sense. Essentially, regardless of "fantasy", "marketing" has established things that work, and the bumbling tubby sidekick is one of them. The stalwart fat hero isn't.
How about a planeswalker that's a rare instead of mythic rare? Maybe even uncommon with mediocre abilities?
A colorless planeswalker would be cool. An Eldrazi planeswalker, maybe?
A new Tibalt with greater experience and better abilities would be neat.
Or maybe legendary creatures that are planeswalkers before their sparks ignited.
A prismatic planeswalker.
A double-sided legendary creature that flips into a planeswalker.
A planeswalker with hybrid mana symbols.
A new Nicol Bolas
A Goblin planeswalker
A past legendary creature that has turned into a planeswalker
A ghost planeswalker?
Irrelevant opinion: I want to see a sequal to Scars of Mirrodin with a good ending.
While I agree we need more variety, for god's SAKE, no more teenager walkers.
Jace already look very anime-ish in some of his versions, all Magic does NOT need is teenage, pointy-haired walkers, specially if they are good and I need to put them on my decks despite depising the art and concept.
I'm a Spike Vorthos - I love lore and flavor, but only if the cards are competition worthy.
Deeeefinitely not gonna happen.
Won't get into the Eldrazi issue, but Karn Liberated says hi.
I'm not against it, but there are rules issues involved with this given the nature of loyalty counters.
Venser says hi.
Death wipes out the spark.