Its biggest problem is clearly that you can't cast it off a Heritage Druid activation. It's still very powerful, but I think that might make it not good enough for modern combo elves.
There are a lot more degenerate combos that would work with this than elves.
Remember creatures ETB trigger the draw effect. Even though splinter twin is an auto win combo, I'll mention it now to show you how elves is the least of your worries.
You could probably pull off some resto angel/fiend hunter draw your library shenanigans.
Elves doesnt need this card draw, you actual have other card draw that is even "better" in that regards.
The blue in the cost is a major thing. Sure you can play it, it also works. With Deathrite Shaman and shocklands you can produce the blue and fix that issue, but its still a worse way to combo, and even if you do, its just another combo among so many others in modern and/or legacy.
We'll have to see how strong Combo Elves in Modern is if they have to splash blue and spend 2 mana for their Glimpse. It's too early to already call for its banning.
Elves doesnt need this card draw, you actual have other card draw that is even "better" in that regards.
This is exactly the card draw Combo Elves needs, the deck relied on Glimpse of Nature before that was banned. Glimpse is better but obviously that doesn't matter if it is banned, I'm confused by your post.
There are a lot more degenerate combos that would work with this than elves.
Remember creatures ETB trigger the draw effect. Even though splinter twin is an auto win combo, I'll mention it now to show you how elves is the least of your worries.
You could probably pull off some resto angel/fiend hunter draw your library shenanigans.
Why would Splinter Twin/Kiki Jiki decks want to draw infinite cards when they are already dealing infinite damage in the same turn?
this with intruder alarm makes UG elves a much more viable combination. its still a rough one though. and it might just not be as good as tribal elf swarm.
and twin combo out is not an auto win.
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Standard:
Nothing Modern:
Cruel Control, UR Delver, RUG midrange, Akroma's Elfmorial EDH:
Animar, Chainer, Derevi the Stonehewer Mystic, Nekusar
There are cards that slide past development because it's really hard to notice every combo and interaction and so, some stuff doesn't get tested enough. But this card is screaming ELVES, so I'm pretty sure they've tried it in elves and felt comfortable with it. Down the road it may get too degenerate, but it's way too soon to call for bans.
This exactly. This card is so close to Glimpse, that it would be nigh impossible for it to slip through development without someone raising the issue. It's certainly possible that they didn't test it enough or that they missed some new interaction, but certainly they would have tested it in decks that previously played Glimpse prior to it's banning, and found it to be fine to print.
Second, you completely missed the point. Its not that twin WANTS to draw its entire deck, its that there are more than just combo elves when it comes to Beck.
We'll have to see how strong Combo Elves in Modern is if they have to splash blue and spend 2 mana for their Glimpse. It's too early to already call for its banning.
This is exactly the card draw Combo Elves needs, the deck relied on Glimpse of Nature before that was banned. Glimpse is better but obviously that doesn't matter if it is banned, I'm confused by your post.
Why would Splinter Twin/Kiki Jiki decks want to draw infinite cards when they are already dealing infinite damage in the same turn?
I think Affinity abuses Glimpse much more easily than it can abuse Beck because it can go "Land, Glimpse, Ornithopter, Memnite, Mox Opal, Frogmite", while it can't produce UG on Turn 1 without playing at least one creature first.
I doubt it. Elves might win off the back of Beck // Call with a God hand as early as Turn 3. But absolutely not on turn 2. What, T1 Fetch Deathrite, T2 Beck... 1 more elf? Not even enough to go off via Heritage Druid. It would be a creature based combo that would win on turn 3-4.
Last time I checked Melira Pod could do the same. With arguably less cards.
This card was pretty clearly designed to be a "fixed" version of Glimpse. It was probably designed specifically so that Modern could have the effect, but not the speed. Also, the switch to ETB, making it playable in more decks, decreases the odds it will be banned. Modern needs more cards that can create variants.
Clarke's Third Law:
Any sufficiently advanced combo deck is indistinguishable from magic.
A 1 mana difference is huge. Lightning Bolt is a Modern staple. Searing Spear is only playable in the most desperate of RDWs.
That goes double if the deck has to splash a color that it normally doesn't use.
Elves is definitely going to play Beck//Call, but don't expect it to suddenly become the next Jund.
In this case the 1 mana is less relevant than the casting cost, although of course it still matters. Heritage Druid only makes green mana, which means I'm not scared of this card at all.
Why did you link the Glimpse legality page? Are you trying to show me that it's banned in modern? Yes, I know. That's the whole bloody point of this thread.
Now go search Legacy event decks with Glimpse in them. You'll find Affinity.
Why did you link the Glimpse legality page? Are you trying to show me that it's banned in modern? Yes, I know. That's the whole bloody point of this thread.
Now go search Legacy event decks with Glimpse in them. You'll find Affinity.
I do think affinity in modern will play beck. It will not nearly be as good as glimpse but it will make affinity comparable to new-new-zoo once again.
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Currently playing: GCasual 8-post R Casual Land Destruction UBRWG Legacy Dredge WGB Modern Melira Pod RUG EDH
I do think affinity in modern will play beck. It will not nearly be as good as glimpse but it will make affinity comparable to new-new-zoo once again.
It's totally probable that they will play it. It's not a turn one win, like in legacy, but affinity doesn't need to change its mana base at all and it'll help with explosive wins. Affinity might even go back to a frogmite/lodestone strategy again.
A 1 mana difference is huge. Lightning Bolt is a Modern staple. Searing Spear is only playable in the most desperate of RDWs.
By your logic, Ancestral Recall would be balanced at 1U.
Theres a huge difference between a combo spell and simply efficient removal.
Notice how only one removal spell is banned in modern, but the rest of the list is filled with combo pieces and the most efficient can trips (and a couple of outright unfair cards like JMS and Misstep).
Why did you link the Glimpse legality page? Are you trying to show me that it's banned in modern? Yes, I know. That's the whole bloody point of this thread.
Now go search Legacy event decks with Glimpse in them. You'll find Affinity.
Oh I thought people we talking about banned cards plus you never specified what to look up. You just said would someone look up glimpse and thats what I did. Who **** in your cheerios this morning?
Orochi Leafcaller would certainly help this card see play in modern elfball.
I believe that this will most certainly make elf-ball real in Modern, but I think they'll give it a little bit of time to see how it does before they decide whether or not to ban it.
It's too much like glimpse of nature.
Any sufficiently advanced combo deck is indistinguishable from magic.
A 1 mana difference is huge. Lightning Bolt is a Modern staple. Searing Spear is only playable in the most desperate of RDWs.
That goes double if the deck has to splash a color that it normally doesn't use.
Elves is definitely going to play Beck//Call, but don't expect it to suddenly become the next Jund.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
So what?
Elves isn't even viable right now and they need something. Whats with the fear mongering?
Remember creatures ETB trigger the draw effect. Even though splinter twin is an auto win combo, I'll mention it now to show you how elves is the least of your worries.
You could probably pull off some resto angel/fiend hunter draw your library shenanigans.
Elves doesnt need this card draw, you actual have other card draw that is even "better" in that regards.
The blue in the cost is a major thing. Sure you can play it, it also works. With Deathrite Shaman and shocklands you can produce the blue and fix that issue, but its still a worse way to combo, and even if you do, its just another combo among so many others in modern and/or legacy.
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This is exactly the card draw Combo Elves needs, the deck relied on Glimpse of Nature before that was banned. Glimpse is better but obviously that doesn't matter if it is banned, I'm confused by your post.
Why would Splinter Twin/Kiki Jiki decks want to draw infinite cards when they are already dealing infinite damage in the same turn?
and twin combo out is not an auto win.
Nothing
Modern:
Cruel Control, UR Delver, RUG midrange, Akroma's Elfmorial
EDH:
Animar, Chainer, Derevi the Stonehewer Mystic, Nekusar
This exactly. This card is so close to Glimpse, that it would be nigh impossible for it to slip through development without someone raising the issue. It's certainly possible that they didn't test it enough or that they missed some new interaction, but certainly they would have tested it in decks that previously played Glimpse prior to it's banning, and found it to be fine to print.
Second, you completely missed the point. Its not that twin WANTS to draw its entire deck, its that there are more than just combo elves when it comes to Beck.
What ever happened to abstract reasoning people!
Affinity has been known to play it, too. It's not just Elf combo.
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Printings.aspx?multiverseid=75241
Last time I checked Melira Pod could do the same. With arguably less cards.
In this case the 1 mana is less relevant than the casting cost, although of course it still matters. Heritage Druid only makes green mana, which means I'm not scared of this card at all.
Why did you link the Glimpse legality page? Are you trying to show me that it's banned in modern? Yes, I know. That's the whole bloody point of this thread.
Now go search Legacy event decks with Glimpse in them. You'll find Affinity.
I do think affinity in modern will play beck. It will not nearly be as good as glimpse but it will make affinity comparable to new-new-zoo once again.
Currently playing:
GCasual 8-post
R Casual Land Destruction
UBRWG Legacy Dredge
WGB Modern Melira Pod
RUG EDH
It's totally probable that they will play it. It's not a turn one win, like in legacy, but affinity doesn't need to change its mana base at all and it'll help with explosive wins. Affinity might even go back to a frogmite/lodestone strategy again.
By your logic, Ancestral Recall would be balanced at 1U.
Theres a huge difference between a combo spell and simply efficient removal.
Notice how only one removal spell is banned in modern, but the rest of the list is filled with combo pieces and the most efficient can trips (and a couple of outright unfair cards like JMS and Misstep).
Oh I thought people we talking about banned cards plus you never specified what to look up. You just said would someone look up glimpse and thats what I did. Who **** in your cheerios this morning?
I believe that this will most certainly make elf-ball real in Modern, but I think they'll give it a little bit of time to see how it does before they decide whether or not to ban it.
[[b]B]DCI Level 2 Judge[/B][/b]That's assuming Ancestral Recall was even a balanced spell to begin with.
Glimpse is nowhere near the level of Ancestral Recall. You can't just stuff it into any old deck. You have to build your entire deck around it.
Beck is to Glimpse what Watchwolf is to Wild Nacatl.
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Big Johnny.
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