What are we expecting out of Ral Zarek in Dragon's Maze?

  • #52
    Quote from Blubberburg
    ultimate: "You gain an emblem which reads: Spells you cast has overload equall to their converted mana cost"
    Maybe an extra line to make it not target your stuff or only target your stuff (as overloads worded weirdly like that)


    Change the each of each spell with a single each.

    No.
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  • #53
    Quote from RobT
    Eating spells could very well be done. It'd just work like this:

    +0: Exile an Instant or Sorcery card from your hand. Put X loyalty counters on Ral Zarek, where X is the converted mana cost of the exiled card.

    Electrolyze would be awesome at a -2, and it would actually make a whole lot of sense

    And, because it'd totally make sense for Izzet to:
    -10 (Or some other relatively high number): You get an emblem with "At the beginning of each main phase on your turn, you may cast any number of instants and/or sorceries exiled by Ral Zarek without paying their mana cost."

    And yes, absolutely would that emblem be stackable and yes on both main phases. =P

    Or at least something along those lines. If Ral Zarek ate spells, I can only imagine that they'd be sure to make it so that they're reusable. That's just the best way I can think of making that happen.


    Having the first and last abilities would get your version of Ral insta-banned in EDH and Modern. Drop it, then exile one of the following 8+ CMC spells:

    Beacon of Tomorrows; Blasphemous Act; Curse of the Cabal; Decree of Annihilation; Decree of Pain; Denying Wind; Insurrection; Obliterate; Plague Wind; Scrambleverse; Time Stretch; Warp World; or Worldfire.

    You can easily pop an emblem the turn after you drop Ral, keep him on the board, and exile another card each turn, making it into an obscenely overpowered Panoptic Mirror. Both main phases? Be serious. Beacon, Annihilation, Oblit and Stretch are soft-locks; Curse and Denying are attrition cards; and Scramble and Warp will cause people to scoop.

    The idea of a Panoptic Mirror emblem is great (I mentioned it myself), but printing it has to be balanced out against a drawback. I'd much rather see a good, balanced card for Ral than have it be a design mistake like JtMS and Snapcaster.
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  • #54
    The main problem with Ral eating spells is that, if he leaves play for any reason, the spells are no longer treated as being exiled with Ral Zarek. An emblem that keys off of spells exiled with Ral Zarek would also be non-functional, since it wouldn't have any way of specifying which Ral Zarek it's talking about.

    To be honest, I'll be a bit disappointed if he eats spells. Aside from the mechanical issues, I like casting instants and sorceries, not throwing them into a pit.
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  • #55
    Hopefully a 4 drop.

    I could see Forked Bolt, but the draw a card part would look awkward and forced imo. I don't think it'd be too strong if it was on there tho, it would have to be a minus ability that isn't able to be used 2 turns in a row imo. Maybe 4 loyalty and it's a -3, or 3 loyalty and it's a -2.

    Perhaps an actual loot type effect....draw, then discard or discard, then draw. probably the most likely scenario imo.
    [FONT=Arial][SIZE=1][COLOR=Black][B][SIZE=2]Standard:[/SIZE][/B][SIZE=1] [/SIZE] [SIZE=1][SIZE=1]Bident Layers B Devotion RG Devotion UW Control [/SIZE][/SIZE][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1] [/SIZE][/FONT][B][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2]Modern:[/SIZE][/FONT][/B][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1] Jund UW [SIZE=1]Control [SIZE=1]Combo Pod [/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/FONT][SIZE=1][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1] [SIZE=1] [/SIZE] [B][SIZE=2]Legacy:[/SIZE][/B][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial][SIZE=1]Dea[SIZE=1]thBlade [SIZE=1]RUG Delver[SIZE=1] [SIZE=1][SIZE=1]BUG Control [/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE] [FONT=Fixedsys][SIZE=1] [/SIZE][/FONT]

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  • #56
    I would think something like this, considering what he does in the book:

    Ral Zarek 2UR

    Planeswalker - Ral

    +1: Draw a card, then discard a card.

    -2: Target player draws two cards, then Ral Zarek deals damage to that player equal to the number of cards he or she has drawn this turn.

    -5: Put X 3/1 blue and red elemental creature tokens with trample and haste onto the battlefield, where X is the number of cards in your hand. Sacrifice those tokens at the end of turn.

    Loyalty: 3
    Last edited by Valyon: 2/4/2013 7:59:19 PM

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  • #57
    [FONT=Palatino Linotype][SIZE=3]
    Quote from Valyon
    [FONT=palatino linotype]I would think something like this, considering what he does in the book: Ral Zarek 2UR Planeswalker - Ral +1: Draw a card, then discard a card. -2: Target player draws two cards, then Ral Zarek deals damage to that player equal to the number of cards he or she has drawn this turn. -5: Put X 3/1 blue and red elemental creature tokens with trample and haste onto the battlefield, where X is the number of cards in your hand. Sacrifice those tokens at the end of turn. Loyalty: 3[/FONT]
    [FONT=Palatino Linotype][SIZE=3] [SIZE=3]For as weak as those first two abilites are (Looter, Cerebral Vortex), neither one really supports the "ultimate" you submitted. Using the -2 on yourself is worse than Sign in Blood. I'd much rather see a Winds of Change effect at that cost. I really would be disappointed removing five counters from your Ral just to get one Spark Elemental[/SIZE][/SIZE][/FONT] token. Vraska showed us something a little more innovative with PWs; hopefully Ral gets the same treatment. And before people rant about how "terribad" Vraska's design was, not every card is meant for 4-Turn-or-less formats/decks. While the books are a[/SIZE][/FONT][SIZE=3][SIZE=3][FONT=Palatino Linotype]n interesting read at times, they've also done things they weren't supposed to. Between the Time Spiral[/FONT][SIZE=3][FONT=Palatino Linotype] trilogy and the SoM novel, Venser turned into a suicidal drug-addict.[/FONT][SIZE=3][FONT=Palatino Linotype] Yay for "creative license."[/FONT][SIZE=3][FONT=Palatino Linotype] The webcomics (which are canon) had Chandra use Ghostfire[/FONT][SIZE=3][FONT=Palatino Linotype] du[/FONT][SIZE=3][FONT=Palatino Linotype]ring Zendikar block, [/FONT][SIZE=3][FONT=Palatino Linotype]yet we haven't seen that ability appear on any card bearing her name yet. Maybe we will with Chandra 4.0[/FONT][SIZE=3][FONT=Palatino Linotype] in [/FONT][FONT=Palatino Linotype][SIZE=3]Friends block.[/SIZE][/FONT] [/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE]

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  • #58
    Now stop guessing, we all know Ral is just gonna be Tibor and Lumia all over again
  • #59
    I think his second ability will most assuredly be Electrolyze and it will be a -3. It cannot be a -2 because that will be a little too powerful. I have no clue about his plus 1, but I can definitely see a looting effect. His Ultimate is going to be a powerful summoning of elemental type spell just based off his lore and what he has been KNOWN to do.
  • #60
    Quote from Xover
    I think his second ability will most assuredly be Electrolyze and it will be a -3. It cannot be a -2 because that will be a little too powerful. I have no clue about his plus 1, but I can definitely see a looting effect. His Ultimate is going to be a powerful summoning of elemental type spell just based off his lore and what he has been KNOWN to do.


    That would depend on his CMC and starting loyalty. If he was 4CMC (2RU) and started with 3 loyalty and a +1 as his first ability, a -2 Electrolyze is completely reasonable.

    All I want is for him to be playable. I've waited forever for a RU planeswalker.
  • #61
    I'll chime in that I think Electrolyze will be his neg ability. I hope they don't make looting his first ability... we've had enough blue/red looting lately.

    Although I'd be ok with a supercharged Electrolyze as his ultimate...
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  • #62
    One thing I will add:

    The card's name will most likely simply be "Ral Zarek."

    Every planeswalker that has ever appeared for the first time has had their character name as their first card name.

    This is why I still do not understand all the fake cards like "Ral Zarek, Tonitrumancer" or "Ral Zarek, Izzet Mage."

    All planeswalker appearances have followed the convention:

    First Appearance: (First Name) (Last Name)
    Further appearances: (First Name) (Optional Comma) (Some convoluted description or title)

    For instance, Jace...

    First Appearance: Jace Beleren
    Second Appearance: Jace, The Mindsculptor
    Third Appearance: Jace, Memory Adept
    Fourth Appearance: Jace, Architect of Thought

    Or Chandra...

    First Appearance: Chandra Nalaar
    Second Appearance: Chandra Ablaze
    Third Appearance: Chandra, The Firebrand

    The only acceptions to this rule are:

    Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
    Tibalt, the Fiend-Blooded
    Vraska The Unseen

    Bolas' card still follows the rule essentially, as he had already been represented once (Nicol Bolas). The other two were never referred to with a second name as were all the other planeswalkers. They were only ever referred to as "Vraska" and "Tibalt." Thus, the format above should still hold true, as these two are exceptions to the rule.

    Quote from Don_Quixote
    The real question: Is his subtype going to be "Ral" or "Zarek"?


    Based on all other planeswalkers besides Nicol Bolas, I would say that it will be his first name, "Ral," as that is what would be carried forward in the card name as well... based on the convention outlined above of course.

    Thoughts?

    Izzet Gelectric Mayhem Izzet
    green mana March of the Ents green mana

    Izzet Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind Izzet
    blue mana green mana red mana Riku of Two Reflections red mana green mana blue mana
    blue mana black mana red mana Nekusar, the Mindrazer red mana black mana blue mana
    white mana black mana Athreos, God of Passage black mana white mana
    green mana white mana Karametra, God of Harvest white mana green mana

    blue mana red mana Grim Delvermancer red mana blue mana
    red mana green mana Gruul Aggro green mana red mana
  • #63
    To Mechanical Volition:
    Another very big exception is Elspeth, Knight-Errant coming before Elspeth Tirel.
    Elspeth is dead. Long live Elspeth.
  • #64
    You forgot Tamiyo, the Moon Sage in your ''exceptions'' list, and Elspeth's ''name'' variant also only came after her first version with a title.

    None of Jace's titles are particularly interesting to me, Jace Beleren sounds by far the best. Vraska the Unseen however is extremely fitting and this should just be how she should be named, period, no last name required. I dont think your rule holds much value.
    Last edited by Trivmvirate: 2/22/2013 5:45:45 PM
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  • #65
    Quote from Tackman
    To Mechanical Volition:
    Another very big exception is Elspeth, Knight-Errant coming before Elspeth Tirel.


    Ah! I forgot about our gal Elspeth. She indeed would be the biggest exception and the one fly in the ointment. Good catch!


    Quote from Profani
    You forgot Tamiyo, the Moon Sage in your ''exceptions'' list, and Elspeth's ''name'' variant also only came after her first version with a title.

    None of Jace's titles are particularly interesting to me, Jace Beleren sounds by far the best. Vraska the Unseen however is extremely fitting and this should just be how she should be named, period, no last name required. I dont think your rule holds much value.


    Tamiyo would fit in the same category as Tibalt and Vraska, same goes for Tezzeret and Koth. They were only ever referred to by their one name.

    Whether the name sounds preferrential really doesn't hold weight as that varies from person to person.


    Also, Karn, Liberated and Venser, the Sojourner follow the Bolas example of referring to previously seen characters.

    As we stand now, we have...

    Those that start with the full name (10 Total)

    Jace Beleren > Jace, the Mindsculptor > Jace, Memory Adept > Jace, Architect of Thought
    Chandra Nalaar > Chandra Ablaze > Chandra, the Firebrand
    Garruk Wildspeaker > Garruk, Primal Hunter > Garruk Relentless
    Ajani Goldmane > Ajani Vengeant > Ajani, Caller of the Pride
    Liliana Vess > Liliana of the Veil > Liliana of the Dark Realms
    Gideon Jura > Gideon, Champion of Justice
    Sarkhan Vol > Sarkhan the Mad
    Sorin Markov > Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
    Nissa Revane
    Domri Rade

    Those that start with a name and title, BUT reference a previouusly introduced character (3 Total)

    Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
    Venser, the Sojourner
    Karn, Liberated

    Those that started with a name and title, BUT are only referenced in the story by that one name (5 Total)

    Tezzeret, The Seeker > Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
    Tamiyo, The Moon Sage
    Tibalt, The Fiend-Blooded
    Vraska The Unseen
    Koth of the Hammer

    And the only one that goes with a title first (1 Total )

    Elspeth, Knight Errant > Elspeth Tirel

    So from this information, we can try to take what we know about Ral Zarek and determine how his card name could be formatted.

    There are 11 planeswalkers that have come before Ral Zarek that share with him the fact that they have a first AND last name. Of those 11, 10 of them started off with there full name as their card name.

    Based on that information, I would feel more confident in saying Ral Zarek's card will simply be titled "Ral Zarek."

    Of all the Planeswalkers printed only ONE (Bolas) has both their first and last name and a title. Those that have titles only have either their first name or only name used. Thus, if Ral does start off with a title, he is most likely to appear as "Ral, __________."

    Of course, he could completely fly in the face of everything that has been printed before him. That is the nature of speculation. I am simply trying to base my speculation on what has come before.

    The only way we will know for sure is when he is finally printed.
    Last edited by Gelectric Mayhem: 2/23/2013 12:10:52 PM

    Izzet Gelectric Mayhem Izzet
    green mana March of the Ents green mana

    Izzet Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind Izzet
    blue mana green mana red mana Riku of Two Reflections red mana green mana blue mana
    blue mana black mana red mana Nekusar, the Mindrazer red mana black mana blue mana
    white mana black mana Athreos, God of Passage black mana white mana
    green mana white mana Karametra, God of Harvest white mana green mana

    blue mana red mana Grim Delvermancer red mana blue mana
    red mana green mana Gruul Aggro green mana red mana
  • #66
    a Blue/red walker better then Tibalt.

    I have easy to meet expectations

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  • #67
    Ah! I forgot about our gal Elspeth. She indeed would be the biggest exception and the one fly in the ointment. Good catch!




    Tamiyo would fit in the same category as Tibalt and Vraska, same goes for Tezzeret and Koth. They were only ever referred to by their one name.

    Whether the name sounds preferrential really doesn't hold weight as that varies from person to person.


    Also, Karn, Liberated and Venser, the Sojourner follow the Bolas example of referring to previously seen characters.

    As we stand now, we have...

    Those that start with the full name (10 Total)

    Jace Beleren > Jace, the Mindsculptor > Jace, Memory Adept > Jace, Architect of Thought
    Chandra Nalaar > Chandra Ablaze > Chandra, the Firebrand
    Garruk Wildspeaker > Garruk, Primal Hunter > Garruk Relentless
    Ajani Goldmane > Ajani Vengeant > Ajani, Caller of the Pride
    Liliana Vess > Liliana of the Veil > Liliana of the Dark Realms
    Gideon Jura > Gideon, Champion of Justice
    Sarkhan Vol > Sarkhan the Mad
    Sorin Markov > Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
    Nissa Revane
    Domri Rade

    Those that start with a name and title, BUT reference a previouusly introduced character (3 Total)

    Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
    Venser, the Sojourner
    Karn, Liberated

    Those that started with a name and title, BUT are only referenced in the story by that one name (5 Total)

    Tezzeret, The Seeker > Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
    Tamiyo, The Moon Sage
    Tibalt, The Fiend-Blooded
    Vraska The Unseen
    Koth of the Hammer

    And the only one that goes with a title first (1 Total )

    Elspeth, Knight Errant > Elspeth Tirel

    So from this information, we can try to take what we know about Ral Zarek and determine how his card name could be formatted.

    There are 11 planeswalkers that have come before Ral Zarek that share with him the fact that they have a first AND last name. Of those 11, 10 of them started off with there full name as their card name.

    Based on that information, I would feel more confident in saying Ral Zarek's card will simply be titled "Ral Zarek."

    Of all the Planeswalkers printed only ONE (Bolas) has both their first and last name and a title. Those that have titles only have either their first name or only name used. Thus, if Ral does start off with a title, he is most likely to appear as "Ral, __________."

    Of course, he could completely fly in the face of everything that has been printed before him. That is the nature of speculation. I am simply trying to base my speculation on what has come before.

    The only way we will know for sure is when he is finally printed.


    Elspeth sets a precedent that could unravel all of your speculation. There's absolutely no reason why Koth, Tamiyo, Tibalt, and Vraska couldn't have a second incarnation further down the road with just their first and last name.
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  • #68
    Since he's Izzet, let's up the crazy/design space a bit:

    Ral Zarek 1UR
    Ral Zarek's abilities may be activated any time you could play an instant (but only once per turn).
    +1: You may cast sorcery cards as though they had flash this turn.
    -1: Put a 3/1 Elemental creature token with haste into play.
    -3: Ral Zarek does X damage among any number of target creatures and/or players, where X is the converted mana cost of target spell. Then +4.
    2

    His 'ultimate' ramps up lightning-charge style, while also being 'ultimate' with any huge spell XD Risky (since he'd go down to 1 before the +4 happens)

    That might be too wild, but he seems like a good opportunity to turn things on their head a little bit. Plus, Garruk Relentless was pretty unusual, so its not like they've never done one with other qualifications. What are some wackier/more Izzet-genius ideas that might happen?
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  • #69
    Quote from SarumanTheChef
    Since he's Izzet, let's up the crazy/design space a bit:

    Ral Zarek 1UR
    Ral Zarek's abilities may be activated any time you could play an instant (but only once per turn).
    +1: You may cast sorcery cards as though they had flash this turn.
    -1: Put a 3/1 Elemental creature token with haste into play.
    -3: Ral Zarek does X damage among any number of target creatures and/or players, where X is the converted mana cost of target spell. Then +4.
    2

    His 'ultimate' ramps up lightning-charge style, while also being 'ultimate' with any huge spell XD Risky (since he'd go down to 1 before the +4 happens)

    That might be too wild, but he seems like a good opportunity to turn things on their head a little bit. Plus, Garruk Relentless was pretty unusual, so its not like they've never done one with other qualifications. What are some wackier/more Izzet-genius ideas that might happen?


    Pretty sure using abilities at instant-speed would also mean being able to use one on your turn and one more on your opponent's turn.

    What you proposed is also way too powerful.
    Elspeth is dead. Long live Elspeth.
  • #70
    Quote from RobT
    Eating spells could very well be done. It'd just work like this:

    +0: Exile an Instant or Sorcery card from your hand. Put X loyalty counters on Ral Zarek, where X is the converted mana cost of the exiled card.

    Electrolyze would be awesome at a -2, and it would actually make a whole lot of sense

    And, because it'd totally make sense for Izzet to:
    -10 (Or some other relatively high number): You get an emblem with "At the beginning of each main phase on your turn, you may cast any number of instants and/or sorceries exiled by Ral Zarek without paying their mana cost."

    And yes, absolutely would that emblem be stackable and yes on both main phases. =P

    Or at least something along those lines. If Ral Zarek ate spells, I can only imagine that they'd be sure to make it so that they're reusable. That's just the best way I can think of making that happen.


    I really like this idea. It's strictly better than Godzilla in every way.

    Ral Zarek should hopefully be on the more shenanigans side of PWs.
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  • #71
    Quote from Icarus599
    I really like this idea. It's strictly better than Godzilla in every way.

    Ral Zarek should hopefully be on the more shenanigans side of PWs.


    Sounds eerily like Chandra Ablaze, which was terribad.
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  • #72
    i would like to see something like this..

    + exile an instant or sorcery card from your hand, ral does damage equal that cards converted mana cost to target creature

    - a spell with "target" gets "overloaded"

    ulti = you may cast an number of instants and sorcery cards exiled with ral, without paying their mana cost

    starting loyalty ??
  • #73
    Quote from RobT
    Eating spells could very well be done. It'd just work like this:

    +0: Exile an Instant or Sorcery card from your hand. Put X loyalty counters on Ral Zarek, where X is the converted mana cost of the exiled card.

    Electrolyze would be awesome at a -2, and it would actually make a whole lot of sense

    And, because it'd totally make sense for Izzet to:
    -10 (Or some other relatively high number): You get an emblem with "At the beginning of each main phase on your turn, you may cast any number of instants and/or sorceries exiled by Ral Zarek without paying their mana cost."

    And yes, absolutely would that emblem be stackable and yes on both main phases. =P

    Or at least something along those lines. If Ral Zarek ate spells, I can only imagine that they'd be sure to make it so that they're reusable. That's just the best way I can think of making that happen.


    I don't know if this has been addressed, but surely no one would abuse the 0 ability with Enter the Infinite.
  • #74
    Copy the next spell you play is too Chandraish to appear again? Otherwise, I could see that coming.

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  • #75
    I was thinking zany and fun and how could anything be more so than an ultimate based on Warp World. Perhaps a one sided WW.
  • #76
    the -ability could be prophetic bolt, since he was on an art of the dual deck version.
    Then again, he could be the guild champion of izzet, since he keeps being a planeswalker a secret.
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