nonbasic land hate

  • #1
    Standard and modern is full of greedy manabase now. Given the tradition of printing hate of the previous block in next block, I foresee there'll be serious nonbasic land hate in M14 or the beginning of next block - either reprinting price of progress / Anathemancer / blood moon / fuminator mage, or something new such as a hatebear with "when a player tap a nonbasic land for mana it deals 3 damages to him"?
    I want another Chinese/Korean/Japanese themed block, but no more under-power, filled-with-useless-mechanic "Return to Kawigama" block!
  • #2
    I'm curious (and forgetful,) what were the nonbasic land hate cards in standard during the first Ravnica?
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  • #3
    I think it may have just been Ghost Quarter, though I'm not familiar with Time Spiral enough to know the lands from it. Kamigawa MIGHT have had a Legendary land hate card?
  • #4
    magus of the moon was in future sight.
  • #5
    5480
    Standard and modern is full of greedy manabase now. Given the tradition of printing hate of the previous block in next block, I foresee there'll be serious nonbasic land hate in M14 or the beginning of next block - either reprinting price of progress / Anathemancer / blood moon / fuminator mage, or something new such as a hatebear with "when a player tap a nonbasic land for mana it deals 3 damages to him"?


    So you hate people who have lands that you dont?
    Oh and mana bases arent a mechanic that got to powerful and need an answer so they dont break the format.Mana bases are needed to....listen carefully....PLAY THE GAME.

    None of those will be reprinted and your idea won't be created while RTR block still has a long time in standard.Its counter prouctive to the fact that they specificly put enemy colored checklands in INN and reprinted the allied ones again so they'ed be around for RTR block and the reprinting of the shocklands and the guildgates.
    You don't give someone a brand new car so they can use it to get to work and then crack the engine and rip out the axels so they can't get to work.Because thats ****ing dumb.
    Last edited by Jiyor: 11/26/2012 10:34:54 AM
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  • #6
    Quote from 5480
    Standard and modern is full of greedy manabase now. Given the tradition of printing hate of the previous block in next block, I foresee there'll be serious nonbasic land hate in M14 or the beginning of next block - either reprinting price of progress / Anathemancer / blood moon / fuminator mage, or something new such as a hatebear with "when a player tap a nonbasic land for mana it deals 3 damages to him"?


    I'm pretty sure I've made this exact same response to one of your other similar posts, but here goes-
    Some of these are reasonable, but Price of Progress has no business in this Standard environment.
    WotC already said they felt Blood Moon was too potent a hoser for RtR block,
    so there is pretty much no chance of PoP.

    Why go through all this trouble to create a balanced multicolor block,
    only to throw away all that work by printing PoP and handing the season to RDW?

    Or, let me guess... You favor RDW :p
    Whatever the reason, these ideas are incredibly unhealthy for the meta.
    If you want appropriate hate for this environment, ask for Wasteland.
    That's a hoser that doesn't throw the color balance waaaaay off.

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  • #7
    Like Jiyor said, they want you to play multicoloured cards, they aren't gonna punish you for it. We will go back to modest manabases after RTR rotates, and only if that is what WotC wants. The best you can expect is that they print cards that encourage you to play basic lands, which could force people to reconsider playing all nonbasic.


    Quote from empathogen
    If you want appropriate hate for this environment, ask for Wasteland.
    That's a hoser that doesn't throw the color balance waaaaay off.

    Even though it's highly unlikely they'll reprint it, it would be interesting to see Wasteland in standard.
    Elspeth is dead. Long live Elspeth.
  • #8
    I would love to see a mana hoser in each color in M14.


    Spreading Seas
    Evil Presence
    Magus of the Moon
    Quirion Dryad
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  • #9
    Except evil presence is ****ing terrible. And quirion dryad doesn't trigger off of the opponent playing spells, how is that a color hoser? It only really encourages you to go heavily multicolor outside of green. If the card did trigger off of the opponent casting nongreen spells it would be worth more than goyf with ease.

    Magus of the moon isn't happening when shocklands are in standard and when we're in a gold block right now. That's just heavily counterproductive in terms of design. Also, people HATE playing against blood moon. I've never seen someone have fun when they're looking at a blood moon. The card can be compared to armageddon and we all hate playing against armageddon. It does almost the same thing to nonbasic heavy decks that don't use red. And the fact that it makes cards mountains is terrible, I mean who plays red? Wizards hates red for no good reason and never makes good cards for it anymore, which is quite annoying to me.
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  • #10
    Quote from Tranquilo
    I would love to see a mana hoser in each color in M14.


    Spreading Seas
    Evil Presence
    Magus of the Moon
    Quirion Dryad


    I think you need to go read Quirion Dryad. I don't think it does what you think it does.
  • #11
    Quote from Jiyor
    So you hate people who have lands that you dont?
    Oh and mana bases arent a mechanic that got to powerful and need an answer so they dont break the format.Mana bases are needed to....listen carefully....PLAY THE GAME.


    And absurd mana bases make ridiculous thing like the new Jund that splashes white just for souls, really mana bases got a bit out of hand, in the time of pain lands and reflecting pools you wouldn't simply splash another colour, if you played multicolour it was because it was needed for your strategy, not get some extra power.

    I understand that wizards wants good mana fixing but punisher cards that make the choice of just splashing a colour not very a good one makes a game a better one IMHO, at least I would like to see a bit more mono coloured deck making top 8.
  • #12
    I expect to atleast see stuff like Dryad Sophisticate, Helldozer, and Weight of Spires come back. But Blood Moon would be cool too.

    Quote from empathogen
    Why go through all this trouble to create a balanced multicolor block,
    only to throw away all that work by printing PoP and handing the season to RDW?

    Or, let me guess... You favor RDW :p
    Whatever the reason, these ideas are incredibly unhealthy for the meta.
    If you want appropriate hate for this environment, ask for Wasteland.
    That's a hoser that doesn't throw the color balance waaaaay off.


    Was RDW the deck to beat back when Blood Moon and Shocks were legal in standard?
  • #13
    Except evil presence is ****ing terrible. And quirion dryad doesn't trigger off of the opponent playing spells, how is that a color hoser? It only really encourages you to go heavily multicolor outside of green. If the card did trigger off of the opponent casting nongreen spells it would be worth more than goyf with ease.

    Magus of the moon isn't happening when shocklands are in standard and when we're in a gold block right now. That's just heavily counterproductive in terms of design. Also, people HATE playing against blood moon. I've never seen someone have fun when they're looking at a blood moon. The card can be compared to armageddon and we all hate playing against armageddon. It does almost the same thing to nonbasic heavy decks that don't use red. And the fact that it makes cards mountains is terrible, I mean who plays red? Wizards hates red for no good reason and never makes good cards for it anymore, which is quite annoying to me.



    You complain about one of the most fair cards in red, and then say wizards hate them? Sigh. I do admit they hate red, but it's getting better. Slowly.

    Anyhow, I for one love playing with and against Armageddon and blood moon. Let's face it: when there is four colour decks, there needs to be some reason to play mono colour.
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  • #14
    Quote from urweak
    Was RDW the deck to beat back when Blood Moon and Shocks were legal in standard?


    No, magus and blood were both cards that assisted RDW but post Time Spiral you had Dragon Storm and pre you had a couple with BW aggro with Jitte as the primary win decks. RDW was always there, but it wasn't the "Deck to beat" so to say.
  • #15
    Ruination ftw?

    I'm not sure what's counterproductive about making hosers for the main theme of a block. Wizards has been doing it since ever. Even the original Ravnica had a bunch.

    And even if this were so bad, it even makes sense from a flavor point of view to target greedy mana bases because RTR isn't a gold block, it's a 2-color block with all these guilds and stuff. Playing more than 2 colors warrants some hate cards.
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  • #16
    Quote from Rocklobster
    No, magus and blood were both cards that assisted RDW but post Time Spiral you had Dragon Storm and pre you had a couple with BW aggro with Jitte as the primary win decks. RDW was always there, but it wasn't the "Deck to beat" so to say.


    Not to mention Price of Progress is ridiculously broken compared to Blood Moon.

    Blood Moon is a hindrance; PoP can end the game in one or two castings.

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  • #17
    Non-basic hate has been a thing in Multi-colored environments at least since Ravnica 1. Hell, World Wake even had Goblin Ruinblaster, and the only multicolored lands of note were the creature lands.

    There will either be new fun stuff in Friends, or we'll see something cool come up in Gruul, but I'ts kinda gross how people can run any configuration of cards together, but only in control or midrange strategies.

    Seriously, Aggro should be allowed to turn 1 Deathrite Shaman into Ash Zealot into Geralf's Messenger.
  • #18
    I don't see why Tectonic Edge can't make a reappearance in Standard. I think I read somewhere they thought it was OP still, but was it really? I played during its time and barely remember its existence in my MUs.

    *I do remember people saying they can't run it in their mana base because it was colorless production. I picture nearly the same argument now.
    Last edited by krimsonviper: 11/26/2012 10:35:48 PM
  • #19
    Magus of the Moon would be a perfectly reasonable reprint, its just a creature so its not like decks should have trouble killing it if they really want, just play actual basics even just float mana in response to him and kill him

    I wouldn't mind seeing something else though like a non basic Stone Rain

    Frankly I wouldn't mind if they printed an Armageddon maybe make it a Boros card like 3RW mana cost, Modern could use the effect and I think it would do some really interesting things to Standard although I doubt this would ever happen
  • #20

    Seriously, Aggro should be allowed to turn 1 Deathrite Shaman into Ash Zealot into Geralf's Messenger.


    And therein lies the corrupt heart of greedy players. They want it all. I think the healthiest format would be one where you could reasonably play 2 colors, with a fair amount of basics. Mono decks would be viable, but not the best option. and finally, 3-4 color decks could be played, but with a conciderable risk, either by running next to no basics (stable manabase, easily disrupted) or more basics (shakier manabase, needs spells/creatures to fix it).

    So, give us Molten Rain, Raze, or something that can and will disrupt those 4 coulour controls in their boots. It doesn't seem right that playing 2 colours is "wrong", for you could as easily splash one more.
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  • #21
    Quote from hamberglar
    I think you need to go read Quirion Dryad. I don't think it does what you think it does.

    Lol, I mean Quirion Druid.
    -
    YOU ARE SURPRISED BY A MANTICORE! IT QUICKLY SHREDS YOUR FLESH AND DEVOURS YOU!
  • #22
    Quote from Wraith^
    And therein lies the corrupt heart of greedy players. They want it all. I think the healthiest format would be one where you could reasonably play 2 colors, with a fair amount of basics. Mono decks would be viable, but not the best option. and finally, 3-4 color decks could be played, but with a conciderable risk, either by running next to no basics (stable manabase, easily disrupted) or more basics (shakier manabase, needs spells/creatures to fix it).

    So, give us Molten Rain, Raze, or something that can and will disrupt those 4 coulour controls in their boots. It doesn't seem right that playing 2 colours is "wrong", for you could as easily splash one more.


    For the first time in over 3 years a three color deck has great mana. This isn't exactly something that is common. It was like this in the Rav 1 standards and the Alara Standards, which it should be in multicolor blocks. Some hate is fine, but going over board with something like Blood Moon variants and PoP just makes the game unfun for a lot of players, and unfun = lost profits.
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  • #23
    Everything in magic should be a trade off. You run cheap efficient creatures, you run the risk of losing late game, you run big late game guys, you run the risk of being overrun early by cheap efficient creatures. That is how it should be with lands, the more colors you run you gain more access to powerful options, but the more you should open yourself up to hate.
    Right now there are also really strong utility lands in standard without a good way of dealing with them.
    Personally I think stone rain would be a great reprint, or fulminator mage if you only think it should hit non-basics. But apparently 3 cost LD is "op" even though it is to slow to work in any format except standard.
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