LT351 @maro254how hard was it not reprinting Dark Confidant
"Not hard. I like Bob (the card and the Hall of Famer), but Dark Confidant is a little bit too good to repeat. (Take this with a grain of salt as I'm horrible at judging power levels.) "
So I take that as Bob not reappearing in a Standard set any time soon, if ever. Kind of a big dagger for Modern players, especially with a ptq season on the horizon, and no Goyf in sight either.
Thoughts?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I have seen the true path. I will not warm myself by
the fire - I will become the flame." - Lim-Dûl, the Necromancer
I hate collectors inflating prices, but greedily I'm working on my second playset, so good! I just agree he'd be way too strong in zombies, they would gladly turn their life into an extra draw per turn.
LT351 @maro254how hard was it not reprinting Dark Confidant
"Not hard. I like Bob (the card and the Hall of Famer), but Dark Confidant is a little bit too good to repeat. (Take this with a grain of salt as I'm horrible at judging power levels.) "
So I take that as Bob not reappearing in a Standard set any time soon, if ever. Kind of a big dagger for Modern players, especially with a ptq season on the horizon, and no Goyf in sight either.
Thoughts?
I read that as being to good for the current standard. Since it is pretty much a Modern staple, I fully expect it to be printed within the next few years.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
For the bajillionth time, FTV products have not lowered the prices on modern staples.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
YMTC: We need a spikey red enchantment. My creations:
RR
Whenever a player taps a nonbasic land, [Card] deals 2 damage to them.
-or-
R
Whenever a player would gain life, flip a coin. If heads, that player loses that much life instead. If tails sacrifice [card] and that player gains that life as per usual.
People really expect these cards to come in annual sets?
Bob and Goyf would warp Standard. I was pretty surprised to see the Shocks come back, TBH, but the fact that they are so diverse in their usages (ie. they go to all colours) means they're fine. Making a 1-of 'best card in Modern' reprint into Standard makes it a horrible place to be. Everyone would play Bob, and everyone else would lose.
You can't group goyf and bob together, in a vaccum bob is amazing goyf isn't. Without fetches you are unlike to get your goyf bigger than a 4/5 very fast.
People really expect these cards to come in annual sets?
Bob and Goyf would warp Standard.
Bob is OP, I agree. But Goyf isn't warping without fetches. Vanilla 3/4 for 2 is good, but without easy ways to get other kinds of permanents than creatures, instants, and sorceries into the yard Goyf isn't really that awesome.
To think that goyf would warp standard is laughable and a clear show of a lack of understanding of the meta.
For reasons already mentioned above, goyf would be a sub par creature in standard for the simple fact that he does nothing but sort of being kind of big, mid way through the game. Goyf tends to be good in control builds, which don't really exist. If you look at the majority of standard decks, they are mostly aimed at being creature centric. A 4/5 with no abilities isn't a big threat.
Bob on the other hand would actually open up other archetypes (not just zombies). I disagree that he would be over powered for this standard since he pretty much dies to everything *cough* tragic slip *cough*.
Maro has zero understanding of power level. He's not the guy who should make these kinds of decisions.
To think that goyf would warp standard is laughable and a clear show of a lack of understanding of the meta.
For reasons already mentioned above, goyf would be a sub par creature in standard for the simple fact that he does nothing but sort of being kind of big, mid way through the game. Goyf tends to be good in control builds, which don't really exist. If you look at the majority of standard decks, they are mostly aimed at being creature centric. A 4/5 with no abilities isn't a big threat.
Bob on the other hand would actually open up other archetypes (not just zombies). I disagree that he would be over powered for this standard since he pretty much dies to everything *cough* tragic slip *cough*.
Maro has zero understanding of power level. He's not the guy who should make these kinds of decisions.
Keep in mind landrexian arena does basically bob's job without the threat or killing yourself quite as fast (previso I definately think bob is better than underworld connections just that the effect wouldn't even be especially new to standard).
"Not hard. I like Bob (the card and the Hall of Famer), but Dark Confidant is a little bit too good to repeat. (Take this with a grain of salt as I'm horrible at judging power levels.) "
Check out the bolded second sentence there - he discounted his own opinion immediately following his assertion. If that's not hedging a bet, I don't know what else it could be - so I'd still put it at 50/50 to see print in one of Gatecrash, "Sinker," or M14.
I've said it once before, if Dark Confidant is going to make a comeback to Standard, doing so soon would make a whole lot of sense.
Not only have Dark Confidant and Tarmogoyf been in T2 without breaking the format but they've been in T2 AT THE SAME TIME (Ravnica -Time Spiral T2) without breaking the format. I mean if they don't want to reprint Confidant into a T2 environment that's their prerogative but lets not act like it would be the end of the world if it came back.
Not only have Dark Confidant and Tarmogoyf been in T2 without breaking the format but they've been in T2 AT THE SAME TIME (Ravnica -Time Spiral T2) without breaking the format. I mean if they don't want to reprint Confidant into a T2 environment that's their prerogative but lets not act like it would be the end of the world if it came back.
The World of Magic has changed and significantly more attention is paid to mana curves now. There are a lot of decks that don't even run 4 drops, or run very few. They also run a lot more 1 drops than we used to see in Ravnica. Bob is significantly more powerful now than he was the first time around because of this.
...without easy ways to get other kinds of permanents than creatures, instants, and sorceries into the yard Goyf isn't really that awesome.
just to play devil's advocate: don't forget we just came off a block that had a rather significant emphasis/subtheme on dumping cards into your graveyard...
If that's not hedging a bet, I don't know what else it could be - so I'd still put it at 50/50 to see print in one of Gatecrash, "Sinker," or M14.
"It" could simply be him making a simple statement: he's not a developer, he's a designer. it would make zero sense for him to state it's too good to reprint in Standard and then reprint it in the very next set (of which he already knows the entire set list).
Not only have Dark Confidant and Tarmogoyf been in T2 without breaking the format but they've been in T2 AT THE SAME TIME (Ravnica -Time Spiral T2) without breaking the format. I mean if they don't want to reprint Confidant into a T2 environment that's their prerogative but lets not act like it would be the end of the world if it came back.
it's all about context. Bob didn't have a dominant deck archetype to fit into at the time. the tools just weren't there (unlike Snapcaster, Delver, and the cheap disruption/removal that exists currently). the most viable decks for him were Orzhov and Rakdos, neither of which were top-tier decks at the time.
same with 'Goyf. for starters, two of the card types listed in his text box hadn't even been released yet. but from the moment he was available to be played alongside fetch lands, he was ubiquitous in extended, legacy, and now modern. i mean, when monoblue control decks everywhere are splashing Breeding Pools just to play a "vanilla" 2-drop creature, you gotta know something is up...
it's all about context. Bob didn't have a dominant deck archetype to fit into at the time. the tools just weren't there (unlike Snapcaster, Delver, and the cheap disruption/removal that exists currently). the most viable decks for him were Orzhov and Rakdos, neither of which were top-tier decks at the time.
Do you have any idea what you're even talking about? Ghost Husk was not only top-tier in Kami/Rav, but a solid contender for best deck in the format.
If I recall correctly Bob saw less play in Rav/TSP, but he was run in Project X at least.
Do you have any idea what you're even talking about? Ghost Husk was not only top-tier in Kami/Rav, but a solid contender for best deck in the format.
If I recall correctly Bob saw less play in Rav/TSP, but he was run in Project X at least.
the poster i was commenting to was talking about Rav-TSP Standard. Ghost Husk had certainly fallen off by then.
why does everyone on the internet feel the need to knee-jerk jump down people's throats about minor things, especially without reading the context of the point they are arguing? people need to learn you can disagree and debate without being an ass.
also, iirc, Rakdos aggro was horribly outclassed by Gruul and Ghazi-Glare.
tldr: point being- the support for Dark Confidant as at a much higher level now than it was when he was originally released. he synergizes extremely well with two of the top standard strategies at the moment. don't expect to see him in a standard environment as long as cheap threats and answers, not to mention Snapcaster, are at the top of the metagame; if at all.
I hate collectors inflating prices, but greedily I'm working on my second playset, so good! I just agree he'd be way too strong in zombies, they would gladly turn their life into an extra draw per turn.
Yes, because they didn't give zombies enough tools in this set already
for those that say goyf and bob in the same standard wasn't format warping or that bob wasn't even that good in standard. yes, he was. when he was with goyf it was so gravy. if you remember those days you would understand. the meta game would evolve and shift based around it yes, but if standard was tiago and bob, there would be a deck that played both of them, it would probably be powerful, and it would most likely be played. even a goyf reprint could be potentially dangerous in today's metagame. thought scour + goyf? faithless looting + goyf? grisly salvage + goyf? people can and will make it work when they have the tools available to them. will a reprint happen? eventually out of hope for the sake of adding accessibility to modern. how soon? no one really knows. everyone just wants it to be now. i wish people would just drop it. just wait and time will tell.
for those that say goyf and bob in the same standard wasn't format warping or that bob wasn't even that good in standard. yes, he was. when he was with goyf it was so gravy. if you remember those days you would understand. the meta game would evolve and shift based around it yes, but if standard was tiago and bob, there would be a deck that played both of them, it would probably be powerful, and it would most likely be played. even a goyf reprint could be potentially dangerous in today's metagame. thought scour + goyf? faithless looting + goyf? grisly salvage + goyf? people can and will make it work when they have the tools available to them. will a reprint happen? eventually out of hope for the sake of adding accessibility to modern. how soon? no one really knows. everyone just wants it to be now. i wish people would just drop it. just wait and time will tell.
My thoughts during this whole thread have been, "did any of these people play standard then?". This post is one of the first logical claims I've heard. Not only was bob good, he was heavily played. Goyf was good, and played. Here is a good deck they were both played in. Goyf was even played in TSP/LRW (?) when the format first came out the best deck out of the gates was R/G ramp and goyf was a staple in it. He blocked merfolks and goblins all day.
People who think goyf is not good without fetch lands clearly have not played him in formats without them. The reason goyf jumped from a crap rare to a chase rare wasn't because of fetch lands in legacy or extended. It was because of standard. I think the only format he wasn't heavily played in, where he has been legal, was block.
Edit -- in block he was still in Kavu Justice, and some builds of shiftry (? The U/G thalonite hermit pickles lock deck). there was also that mediocre mono white deck splashing green for horizon canopy and goyf and riftwseeper.
It should be noted that I never denied Goyf was good. But creatures are a lot better these days, and Goyf's usual size in standard won't be all that special. He'd be good, but not the best creature.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/mm/216
LT351 @maro254how hard was it not reprinting Dark Confidant
"Not hard. I like Bob (the card and the Hall of Famer), but Dark Confidant is a little bit too good to repeat. (Take this with a grain of salt as I'm horrible at judging power levels.) "
So I take that as Bob not reappearing in a Standard set any time soon, if ever. Kind of a big dagger for Modern players, especially with a ptq season on the horizon, and no Goyf in sight either.
Thoughts?
the fire - I will become the flame." - Lim-Dûl, the Necromancer
goyf, bob, mutavault etc..
Rules Advisor: 9/5/11
Old, sparsely updated because of above: Trade with me!
Weirdly, standard has been BAD since JTMS was banned, it hasn't been fun, nor healthy since.
I read that as being to good for the current standard. Since it is pretty much a Modern staple, I fully expect it to be printed within the next few years.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
Whenever a player taps a nonbasic land, [Card] deals 2 damage to them.
-or-
R
Whenever a player would gain life, flip a coin. If heads, that player loses that much life instead. If tails sacrifice [card] and that player gains that life as per usual.
Fires Rf Salvation
You can't group goyf and bob together, in a vaccum bob is amazing goyf isn't. Without fetches you are unlike to get your goyf bigger than a 4/5 very fast.
Bob is OP, I agree. But Goyf isn't warping without fetches. Vanilla 3/4 for 2 is good, but without easy ways to get other kinds of permanents than creatures, instants, and sorceries into the yard Goyf isn't really that awesome.
For reasons already mentioned above, goyf would be a sub par creature in standard for the simple fact that he does nothing but sort of being kind of big, mid way through the game. Goyf tends to be good in control builds, which don't really exist. If you look at the majority of standard decks, they are mostly aimed at being creature centric. A 4/5 with no abilities isn't a big threat.
Bob on the other hand would actually open up other archetypes (not just zombies). I disagree that he would be over powered for this standard since he pretty much dies to everything *cough* tragic slip *cough*.
Maro has zero understanding of power level. He's not the guy who should make these kinds of decisions.
I like Turtles
Keep in mind landrexian arena does basically bob's job without the threat or killing yourself quite as fast (previso I definately think bob is better than underworld connections just that the effect wouldn't even be especially new to standard).
Check out the bolded second sentence there - he discounted his own opinion immediately following his assertion. If that's not hedging a bet, I don't know what else it could be - so I'd still put it at 50/50 to see print in one of Gatecrash, "Sinker," or M14.
I've said it once before, if Dark Confidant is going to make a comeback to Standard, doing so soon would make a whole lot of sense.
Speculate less. Test more.
The World of Magic has changed and significantly more attention is paid to mana curves now. There are a lot of decks that don't even run 4 drops, or run very few. They also run a lot more 1 drops than we used to see in Ravnica. Bob is significantly more powerful now than he was the first time around because of this.
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
just to play devil's advocate: don't forget we just came off a block that had a rather significant emphasis/subtheme on dumping cards into your graveyard...
and he isn't. yes, he has a vote, but so do the rest of the design team, as well as (and most importantly) the development team.
"It" could simply be him making a simple statement: he's not a developer, he's a designer. it would make zero sense for him to state it's too good to reprint in Standard and then reprint it in the very next set (of which he already knows the entire set list).
it's all about context. Bob didn't have a dominant deck archetype to fit into at the time. the tools just weren't there (unlike Snapcaster, Delver, and the cheap disruption/removal that exists currently). the most viable decks for him were Orzhov and Rakdos, neither of which were top-tier decks at the time.
same with 'Goyf. for starters, two of the card types listed in his text box hadn't even been released yet. but from the moment he was available to be played alongside fetch lands, he was ubiquitous in extended, legacy, and now modern. i mean, when monoblue control decks everywhere are splashing Breeding Pools just to play a "vanilla" 2-drop creature, you gotta know something is up...
It is what ~$250 for a playset of Goyfs?
Want to see me in action? Check out my stream! Currently broadcasting Boros Burn in Standard. Full archive available.
Want to play better magic? Come join us at diestoremoval.com
If I recall correctly Bob saw less play in Rav/TSP, but he was run in Project X at least.
Want to see me in action? Check out my stream! Currently broadcasting Boros Burn in Standard. Full archive available.
Want to play better magic? Come join us at diestoremoval.com
the poster i was commenting to was talking about Rav-TSP Standard. Ghost Husk had certainly fallen off by then.
why does everyone on the internet feel the need to knee-jerk jump down people's throats about minor things, especially without reading the context of the point they are arguing? people need to learn you can disagree and debate without being an ass.
also, iirc, Rakdos aggro was horribly outclassed by Gruul and Ghazi-Glare.
tldr: point being- the support for Dark Confidant as at a much higher level now than it was when he was originally released. he synergizes extremely well with two of the top standard strategies at the moment. don't expect to see him in a standard environment as long as cheap threats and answers, not to mention Snapcaster, are at the top of the metagame; if at all.
It would at least be exciting if they reprinted him.
Turn 2 Two Goblin Guide
...almost.
Yes, because they didn't give zombies enough tools in this set already
*DCI Rules Advisor*
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=159384
http://www.deckcheck.de/deck.php?id=5524
http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/print.php?Article=14699
for those that say goyf and bob in the same standard wasn't format warping or that bob wasn't even that good in standard. yes, he was. when he was with goyf it was so gravy. if you remember those days you would understand. the meta game would evolve and shift based around it yes, but if standard was tiago and bob, there would be a deck that played both of them, it would probably be powerful, and it would most likely be played. even a goyf reprint could be potentially dangerous in today's metagame. thought scour + goyf? faithless looting + goyf? grisly salvage + goyf? people can and will make it work when they have the tools available to them. will a reprint happen? eventually out of hope for the sake of adding accessibility to modern. how soon? no one really knows. everyone just wants it to be now. i wish people would just drop it. just wait and time will tell.
My thoughts during this whole thread have been, "did any of these people play standard then?". This post is one of the first logical claims I've heard. Not only was bob good, he was heavily played. Goyf was good, and played. Here is a good deck they were both played in. Goyf was even played in TSP/LRW (?) when the format first came out the best deck out of the gates was R/G ramp and goyf was a staple in it. He blocked merfolks and goblins all day.
People who think goyf is not good without fetch lands clearly have not played him in formats without them. The reason goyf jumped from a crap rare to a chase rare wasn't because of fetch lands in legacy or extended. It was because of standard. I think the only format he wasn't heavily played in, where he has been legal, was block.
Edit -- in block he was still in Kavu Justice, and some builds of shiftry (? The U/G thalonite hermit pickles lock deck). there was also that mediocre mono white deck splashing green for horizon canopy and goyf and riftwseeper.