Well, you're right then, and Wizards is completely mad... why releasing stuff in inverted order?
Yes. Alara happened before Ajani became Goldmane. The only reason the planeswalkers where in the Llorwyn set was to introduce them, They wheren't actually on the plane. (Llorwyn happened at the same time as Time Spiral. The end of Shadowmoor/Eventide happened at the same time as the Mending.
About Kiora Atua:
"Kiora venerates the huge monsters of the sea, such as the leviathans, the krakens and other denizens of the inky depths. For her these creatures embody the ability to withstand any persistent force: time, water, predation and darkness. She seems calm and wise, but her dreams are as bizarre and alien as the depths from which her creatures rise."
She seems to like primal creatures, and the new simic leader seems to like them too, because she's called Zegana, prime speaker.
Prime and Primal do not mean the same thing. Primal means being first in time; original; primeval. Prime means first in rank; degree.
That said. Kiora does have something in common with the Simic: Her love of Leviathans.
I fully expect a new sky-swallower in GTC.
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
There's no chance at all that she's responsible for putting them on the plane. They don't share a single physical characteristic (past fins and scales) or ideal.
Besides that, Gideon has been shown as being directly allied with the Boros and they are pushing the idea that the walkers are pairing off with guilds, demonstrated by Gideon.
And, before Tamiyo and Tibalt were spoiled for Avacyn Restored, how much chance was there for them? NOBODY was expecting a Kamigawa Moonfolk to be in Innistrad. They made up a story to explain it.
As to "no chance", they can do anything they damn well please, and then make up a story to justify it. The only things that have been 100 percent ruled out at this point is that Niv-Mizzet and the other guild masters will not be planeswalkers. The only things that are definitely IN are Jace in RtR and Gideon in Gatecrash. It certainly LOOKS like Gideon is Boros allied, with the art that has been spoiled, and, yes, I do believe given Gideon's history it is likely. And, the teaser with Jace standing near Niv has been taken by some that he will be Izzet aligned, but that is something different. It is not card art, it is set banner, which is displaying two prominent and fan-favorite people from that plane. Doesn't mean they are allied, doesn't mean they aren't. Hell, the entire thing about Sinker could be that several of the guilds have to align in order to deal with some threat. Has happened before, could happen again.
Until cards start being spoiled, it is all speculation.
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Currently playing:
Standard: WBRG Aggro-Reanimator Humans GRBW
Modern: UR Twinning RU G Venus Fly Trap G U Artifacts Aggro U
I'm with Barinellos on quashing any "Kiora brought the merfolk to Ravnica" theories. Brady Dommermuth is the Creative Director in charge of the rules and flavor of the multiverse. He has committed to planeswalkers having certain restrictions on how much they can planejump, and transporting other beings with them is not within their ability. Brady has also stated that "Kiora Atua is not Simic" and that they have different motivations. Simply having Kiora in Ravnica takes some nuance, and having her raise merfolk to head the Simic Combine does not give her enough distance.
That being said, it is waaaay too good to pass up on Kiora Atua speculation when she's a green blue merfolk 'walker in a green blue merfolk set
And, before Tamiyo and Tibalt were spoiled for Avacyn Restored, how much chance was there for them? NOBODY was expecting a Kamigawa Moonfolk to be in Innistrad. They made up a story to explain it.
As to "no chance", they can do anything they damn well please, and then make up a story to justify it.
Ah yes, I remember how many moonfolk there were in Avacyn Restored because Tamiyo showed up.
As for the "no chance" as 1 Drop has said, Brady has been very clear on the capabilities of the walkers. He very recently had something to say on the matter.
Aside from that, Brady himself is the one, unprompted, who shot down the Simic/Kiora connection. Nobody asked him about it, he did it on his own, which paints a pretty clear picture on his thoughts on the matter. If you want to make claims otherwise, by all means, go speak with Mr. Dommermuth. I have several times, and he's very open to questions about the flavor of the game.
A. Kiora and Ral were just personas in DotP 2012 to hype Ravnica color combinations for the last set in 2012 and the first set in 2013. DotP2012 came out June 15, 2011. I imagine them taking a year to develop the game, so around June 2010 they would have finished Scars of Mirrodin, most if not all of Innistrad, and Return to Ravnica would be in development at this time. How much did Wizards have designed? Did they actually have the planeswalkers set, or did they just have rough versions of Izzet contraptions and Simic merfolk? They put them with all of the other printed 'walkers, so it's hard to think they went DotP2013 and just had game only art/personas. Other 'walkers like Nissa Revane were originally in a Duels of the Planeswalkers game before being printed, but Nissa was revealed only a few months after the release.
B. Kiora is a native Ravnican merfolk. Nevermind Prime Speaker Zegana's pale skin and scaley legs, perhaps that's just her. Or, if you believe the playmat character is Ral Zarek and that both Ral and Kiora will get new art, then we can expect a much more scaley version of Kiora in the future. So Kiora lives with the Simic and whatever goals the Simic have this time around, Kiora isn't a part of. Perhaps Prime Speaker Zegana is trying to raise the merfolk out of what little ocean is left to fight for a place amongst the citysdwellers. Kiora finds this distasteful and dives deeper into the depths to find the true power that can protect the seas from the meddling guildrats. She finds meaning on the bottom of the ocean/ she fights off some people trying to kill the merfolk/ her entire family is assassinated ----- spark ignited.
C. Kiora is born on some other plane. Shandalar is a popular guess. Maybe Zendikar. Maybe New Zealand. She stumbles across these green blue merfolk on this weird plane called Ravnica. These peculiar creatures have lost their way. They've traded the primal wonders of the deep to pervert natural beings into genetically altered monstrosities. Oh well. Maybe they can make a good leviathan or two.
On the topic of Kiora:
Would I love to see her as a planeswalker? Yes.
Will she be part of the Simic? From what I have read about her, I'm not expecting it.
Is Ravnica a good time for her to show up? Absolutely, if WotC decides they want to give her a card. Same for Ral Zarek.
Prime Speaker Zegana:
The art is incredible. I don't care what she does, I'm chasing a foil of her.
This.
While Brady's post pretty much confirms Kiora isn't a member of the Simic,
it doesn't deny any association whatsoever (in fact, he pretty much confirms they have at least *some* common goals).
And given we're seeing (U/G) Merfolk for the first time ever (well, other than Gaea's Skyfolk),
it's not exactly the biggest leap in logic to think Kiora might show up as well.
I'll be very surprised if she has literally *nothing* to do with the re-establishment of the fallen Simic Combine
(which was another idea you were dismissing, Barinellos- they wouldn't *dare* ignore Agents of Artifice, right? )
Keep in mind though, she doesn't *have* to be in GTC-
she could be in Sinker,
or WotC could be huge trolls and not print her at all
wistful selkie, selkie hedge-mage, cold-eyed selkie. There were 3 other blue green merfolk so far in those cards. Strange because they were the "representative tribe" of green blue in shadowmoor block. It's a shame there weren't more of them. It is also a shame that Kiora more than likely has nothing to do with shadowmoor because looks nothing like those merfolks (and actually has legs)
B. Kiora is a native Ravnican merfolk. Nevermind Prime Speaker Zegana's pale skin and scaley legs, perhaps that's just her. Or, if you believe the playmat character is Ral Zarek and that both Ral and Kiora will get new art, then we can expect a much more scaley version of Kiora in the future. So Kiora lives with the Simic and whatever goals the Simic have this time around, Kiora isn't a part of. Perhaps Prime Speaker Zegana is trying to raise the merfolk out of what little ocean is left to fight for a place amongst the citysdwellers. Kiora finds this distasteful and dives deeper into the depths to find the true power that can protect the seas from the meddling guildrats. She finds meaning on the bottom of the ocean/ she fights off some people trying to kill the merfolk/ her entire family is assassinated ----- spark ignited.
Kiora is not Ravnican. She looks nothing like the art for the one Ravnican merfolk we know of. She does however look a lot like a certain legendary merfolk that is native to Shandalar.
Thus. C. is the most likely.
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
Kiora is not Ravnican. She looks nothing like the art for the one Ravnican merfolk we know of. She does however look a lot like a certain legendary merfolk that is native to Shandalar.
Thus. C. is the most likely.
You never know with the Simic. Prime Speaker Zegana seems to be wearing a scaley outfit, Ravnican merfolk need not all have scales themselves. Her pale grey skin could be because of how old and how isolated she is, how unnatural the Simic merfolk could have become. What better contrast than the vibrant Kiora Atua? Ravnica is a diverse plane, where we've seen Vedelken with anywhere between 2 and 4 arms.
Also, operating under the theory Ral Zarek is on the gameday playmat (it isn't Ral Zarek...), Kiora could get an art update. Should this happen I would have to get my KA cards altered to the original
The Planeswalker Guide to Ravnica has already confirmed there are planeswalkers native to Ravnica. It doesn't hurt to speculate who they are.
But yes, Kiora as she is currently depicted bears more resemblance to Talrand.
I don't think any of this new info makes Kiora likely.
It does give us a hint towards the origin of the Ravnican merfolk however. Now it is just a question of what that created said "sinkholes".
I am starting to believe that the third act "twist" for RTR is the re-establishing of true wilderness/nature in Ravnica and the destruction of large areas of the city.
Heh, funny theory: What if the absence of Merfolk from the original Ravnica block was because they where busy preparing for the return of nature, and Experiment Kraj was just one humungous distraction created to keep people out of the loop of Simic's actual goal. Nah....
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
I think Kiora Atua is all but confirmed. Adam Styborski in his latest article http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazin...g/daily/sf/211 has a deck called Kiora Atua, with a Worldspine Vengeance so I think this all but confirms she is the new Planeswalker.
That is still just a hint, not «all but confirmed». Further, the deck was named after the GU Kiora Atua deck in DotP 2012.
Hinting about a PW in Gatecrash or «Sinker» during the Return to Ravnica spoiler season doesn't make much sense, and I'm not seeing Kiora in this block's only non-GU set.
It looks more like BG will get a PW in this set (the rumored gorgon).
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Yes. Alara happened before Ajani became Goldmane. The only reason the planeswalkers where in the Llorwyn set was to introduce them, They wheren't actually on the plane. (Llorwyn happened at the same time as Time Spiral. The end of Shadowmoor/Eventide happened at the same time as the Mending.
Prime and Primal do not mean the same thing. Primal means being first in time; original; primeval. Prime means first in rank; degree.
That said. Kiora does have something in common with the Simic: Her love of Leviathans.
I fully expect a new sky-swallower in GTC.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
And, before Tamiyo and Tibalt were spoiled for Avacyn Restored, how much chance was there for them? NOBODY was expecting a Kamigawa Moonfolk to be in Innistrad. They made up a story to explain it.
As to "no chance", they can do anything they damn well please, and then make up a story to justify it. The only things that have been 100 percent ruled out at this point is that Niv-Mizzet and the other guild masters will not be planeswalkers. The only things that are definitely IN are Jace in RtR and Gideon in Gatecrash. It certainly LOOKS like Gideon is Boros allied, with the art that has been spoiled, and, yes, I do believe given Gideon's history it is likely. And, the teaser with Jace standing near Niv has been taken by some that he will be Izzet aligned, but that is something different. It is not card art, it is set banner, which is displaying two prominent and fan-favorite people from that plane. Doesn't mean they are allied, doesn't mean they aren't. Hell, the entire thing about Sinker could be that several of the guilds have to align in order to deal with some threat. Has happened before, could happen again.
Until cards start being spoiled, it is all speculation.
Standard:
WBRG Aggro-Reanimator Humans GRBW
Modern:
UR Twinning RU
G Venus Fly Trap G
U Artifacts Aggro U
Legacy:
B Reanimator B
WU Stoneblade UW
EDH
WBGGhave, Guru of SporesGBW
URGRiku of the Two ReflectionsGRU
WUBRGScion of the Ur-DragonGRBUW
Casual
Far too many to list
That being said, it is waaaay too good to pass up on Kiora Atua speculation when she's a green blue merfolk 'walker in a green blue merfolk set
Ah yes, I remember how many moonfolk there were in Avacyn Restored because Tamiyo showed up.
As for the "no chance" as 1 Drop has said, Brady has been very clear on the capabilities of the walkers. He very recently had something to say on the matter.
Aside from that, Brady himself is the one, unprompted, who shot down the Simic/Kiora connection. Nobody asked him about it, he did it on his own, which paints a pretty clear picture on his thoughts on the matter. If you want to make claims otherwise, by all means, go speak with Mr. Dommermuth. I have several times, and he's very open to questions about the flavor of the game.
A. Kiora and Ral were just personas in DotP 2012 to hype Ravnica color combinations for the last set in 2012 and the first set in 2013. DotP2012 came out June 15, 2011. I imagine them taking a year to develop the game, so around June 2010 they would have finished Scars of Mirrodin, most if not all of Innistrad, and Return to Ravnica would be in development at this time. How much did Wizards have designed? Did they actually have the planeswalkers set, or did they just have rough versions of Izzet contraptions and Simic merfolk? They put them with all of the other printed 'walkers, so it's hard to think they went DotP2013 and just had game only art/personas. Other 'walkers like Nissa Revane were originally in a Duels of the Planeswalkers game before being printed, but Nissa was revealed only a few months after the release.
B. Kiora is a native Ravnican merfolk. Nevermind Prime Speaker Zegana's pale skin and scaley legs, perhaps that's just her. Or, if you believe the playmat character is Ral Zarek and that both Ral and Kiora will get new art, then we can expect a much more scaley version of Kiora in the future. So Kiora lives with the Simic and whatever goals the Simic have this time around, Kiora isn't a part of. Perhaps Prime Speaker Zegana is trying to raise the merfolk out of what little ocean is left to fight for a place amongst the citysdwellers. Kiora finds this distasteful and dives deeper into the depths to find the true power that can protect the seas from the meddling guildrats. She finds meaning on the bottom of the ocean/ she fights off some people trying to kill the merfolk/ her entire family is assassinated ----- spark ignited.
C. Kiora is born on some other plane. Shandalar is a popular guess. Maybe Zendikar. Maybe New Zealand. She stumbles across these green blue merfolk on this weird plane called Ravnica. These peculiar creatures have lost their way. They've traded the primal wonders of the deep to pervert natural beings into genetically altered monstrosities. Oh well. Maybe they can make a good leviathan or two.
Thoughts?
Not entirely correct. I think the //gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=+[Selkie">"]Selkies would like to have a word with you.
On the topic of Kiora:
Would I love to see her as a planeswalker? Yes.
Will she be part of the Simic? From what I have read about her, I'm not expecting it.
Is Ravnica a good time for her to show up? Absolutely, if WotC decides they want to give her a card. Same for Ral Zarek.
Prime Speaker Zegana:
The art is incredible. I don't care what she does, I'm chasing a foil of her.
wistful selkie, selkie hedge-mage, cold-eyed selkie. There were 3 other blue green merfolk so far in those cards. Strange because they were the "representative tribe" of green blue in shadowmoor block. It's a shame there weren't more of them. It is also a shame that Kiora more than likely has nothing to do with shadowmoor because looks nothing like those merfolks (and actually has legs)
Kiora is not Ravnican. She looks nothing like the art for the one Ravnican merfolk we know of. She does however look a lot like a certain legendary merfolk that is native to Shandalar.
Thus. C. is the most likely.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
You never know with the Simic. Prime Speaker Zegana seems to be wearing a scaley outfit, Ravnican merfolk need not all have scales themselves. Her pale grey skin could be because of how old and how isolated she is, how unnatural the Simic merfolk could have become. What better contrast than the vibrant Kiora Atua? Ravnica is a diverse plane, where we've seen Vedelken with anywhere between 2 and 4 arms.
Also, operating under the theory Ral Zarek is on the gameday playmat (it isn't Ral Zarek...), Kiora could get an art update. Should this happen I would have to get my KA cards altered to the original
The Planeswalker Guide to Ravnica has already confirmed there are planeswalkers native to Ravnica. It doesn't hurt to speculate who they are.
But yes, Kiora as she is currently depicted bears more resemblance to Talrand.
http://www.wizards.com/magic/tcg/productarticle.aspx?x=mtg/tcg/guilds/simic
I don't think any of this new info makes Kiora likely.
Me neither...
But still we fight on! Kiora Atua or bust!
It does give us a hint towards the origin of the Ravnican merfolk however. Now it is just a question of what that created said "sinkholes".
I am starting to believe that the third act "twist" for RTR is the re-establishing of true wilderness/nature in Ravnica and the destruction of large areas of the city.
Heh, funny theory: What if the absence of Merfolk from the original Ravnica block was because they where busy preparing for the return of nature, and Experiment Kraj was just one humungous distraction created to keep people out of the loop of Simic's actual goal. Nah....
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
That is still just a hint, not «all but confirmed». Further, the deck was named after the GU Kiora Atua deck in DotP 2012.
Hinting about a PW in Gatecrash or «Sinker» during the Return to Ravnica spoiler season doesn't make much sense, and I'm not seeing Kiora in this block's only non-GU set.
It looks more like BG will get a PW in this set (the rumored gorgon).