...and we'll probably see him as a Planeswalker down the road when we revisit a solution to the Eldrazi. Speculation based off Rosewater's tumbler answer about Ghostfire:
wafflesd asked: Why wasn't Ghostfire reprinted in Rise of the Eldrazi?
While this answer could be given for any card they planned on never reprinting, chances are they'll come back around to the Eldrazi menace storyline. What better way than to have the original prison planner to show up?
Well, actually he's not "Kickin'" because he's a spirit dragon.
Nicol Bolas still probably has him somewhere as a utility. Someone like Elspeth will get captured by bolas and some hero will go rescue mission and end up freeing Ugin and Leshrac and Teferi and anyone else you thought was dead in the process...
Cool. I somewhat doubt it, but who knows, I guess?
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IIW for any CCC (pick the highest one in the list):
A high-costed equipment (I want it big, but make sure it isn't nutso-broken with Stoneforge. So a high equip cost or a benefit for casting or something)
A Squirrel Wizard
A G?? (1-3 colors, including green) legendary creature with its main strat based on not attacking
Well, actually he's not "Kickin'" because he's a spirit dragon.
Nicol Bolas still probably has him somewhere as a utility. Someone like Elspeth will get captured by bolas and some hero will go rescue mission and end up freeing Ugin and Leshrac and Teferi and anyone else you thought was dead in the process...
He is a spirit dragon, as in he is from Kamigawa. However, he is also a planeswalker, so no, he is not undead.
Leshrac is gone, he was used to seal the Madean rift. Teferi isn't dead, he is retired and living the good life with his wife Jhoira. Note, when given the choice to save his own homeland (Jamuraa) or her homeland (Shiv), he chose the latter.
Nicol Bolas said he had to paraphrase "dealt with Ugin". Many people thought that meant he had killed the spirit dragon, but that is not actually what the Elder dragon said. And there is two things one has to keep in mind when it comes to Bolas. 1. He lies. And 2. When he doesn't lie, he uses what is known among villains as "exact words". I.e. he says something that can be interpreted differently from what is actually said.
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
He is a spirit dragon, as in he is from Kamigawa. However, he is also a planeswalker, so no, he is not undead.
<snip>
Nicol Bolas said he had to paraphrase "dealt with Ugin". Many people thought that meant he had killed the spirit dragon, but that is not actually what the Elder dragon said. And there is two things one has to keep in mind when it comes to Bolas. 1. He lies. And 2. When he doesn't lie, he uses what is known among villains as "exact words". I.e. he says something that can be interpreted differently from what is actually said.
Where did we get the info that Ugin is indeed from Kamigawa? I don't think I've heard any confirmation about this; for all I know, he's the same type of dragon as Eternal Dragon (which is conveniently a Dragon Spirit).
At any rate, Bolas has probably "dealt with Ugin" hard enough that Sorin, his old comrade from the first Eldrazi sealing, has given up trying to contact him by Rise of the Eldrazi. I'm not so certain Ugin's becoming conscious anytime soon (and I don't think we're hearing from the lithomancer again).
Where did we get the info that Ugin is indeed from Kamigawa? I don't think I've heard any confirmation about this; for all I know, he's the same type of dragon as Eternal Dragon (which is conveniently a Dragon Spirit).
At any rate, Bolas has probably "dealt with Ugin" hard enough that Sorin, his old comrade from the first Eldrazi sealing, has given up trying to contact him by Rise of the Eldrazi. I'm not so certain Ugin's becoming conscious anytime soon (and I don't think we're hearing from the lithomancer again).
We didn't get confirmation, he's just drawing a conclusion (faulty at that) because he's a spirit dragon.
For the record as well, the one appearance we got from the short story "How Many Eyes?" DOES in fact confirm he has more in common with Eternal Dragon that the Kamigawan dragons.
For the record as well, what MaRo probably meant was while they created that mechanic, it did not fit into the Rise model and so it is from a different "future" that future sight saw. Not that we'll still see him.
It's possible, but I don't think likely.
We are FAR more likely to see Chandra printed in a picture of Ghost Fire than to see Ugin come back.
I'd much rather have Ugin come in to lead the fight against Nicol, considering that him and Nicol are PROBABLY in the same age range(you know, been around since the dawn of forever). Especially after having that Mind Spike crap Nicol is famous for being used on him(and for which Nicol is jealous that a subpar human like Jace can also do).
I mean come on, not even Nicol had the balls to stand up to the Eldrazi, and I am going to assume he knew about them(he IS quoted multiple times as the oldest living being in the multiverse) so he definitely has some respect, if not fear, for Ugin.
I mean come on, not even Nicol had the balls to stand up to the Eldrazi, and I am going to assume he knew about them(he IS quoted multiple times as the oldest living being in the multiverse) so he definitely has some respect, if not fear, for Ugin.
In fairness, he probably just didn't care and was confident enough that he could wipe them out if they ever bothered him.
If the Eldrazi are eating planes, as long as he wasn't keeping any of his stuff on that plane, he'd probably pull up a chair and popcorn to watch.
He also has no fear of Ugin. He's already beaten the sangrite out of him and put him in a hole. Ugin lost that fight. Badly.
We didn't get confirmation, he's just drawing a conclusion (faulty at that) because he's a spirit dragon.
For the record as well, the one appearance we got from the short story "How Many Eyes?" DOES in fact confirm he has more in common with Eternal Dragon that the Kamigawan dragons.
For the record as well, what MaRo probably meant was while they created that mechanic, it did not fit into the Rise model and so it is from a different "future" that future sight saw. Not that we'll still see him.
It's possible, but I don't think likely.
We are FAR more likely to see Chandra printed in a picture of Ghost Fire than to see Ugin come back.
To be fair, I have not read that story.
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
I mean come on, not even Nicol had the balls to stand up to the Eldrazi, and I am going to assume he knew about them(he IS quoted multiple times as the oldest living being in the multiverse) so he definitely has some respect, if not fear, for Ugin.
There are many assumptions there:
Key among them...
1) Bolas is not the oldest living being in the multiverse. It seems unlikely given the vast multiverse. He is one of the oldest planeswalkers.
2) There are near infinite planes, one planeswalker cannot know everything that happens to each. Bolas had an interplanar empire to worry about, he might not have known about the Eldrazi.
3) Even if Bolas did know about the Eldrazi... why would he care? The Eldarzi are not rivals, they aren't trying to take over planes, they are eating them. The only conflict is if the Eldrazi are trying to eat a plane he controlled. (But given the near infinte nature of the multiverse that's unlikely to occur).
4) Ugin DO NOT ACT ALONE and DID NOT KILL THE ELDRAZI. I could set a trap and trap a bear, that doesn't mean i'm stronger then a bear. That doesn't mean someone should fear me because i trapped a bear. Ugin and firends trapping the Eldrazi show magical applitude and cunning, but doesn't mean they'd beat Bolas in a straight up fight.
5) The mending. Even if Ugin was stronger than Bolas (which we don't know), the mending stripped alot of power from the planeswalkers. Bolas was able to recharge his batteries with Alara. Bolas is more powerful now then most planeswalkers, he doesn't have much to fear.
1) Bolas is not the oldest living being in the multiverse. It seems unlikely given the vast multiverse. He is one of the oldest planeswalkers.
2) There are near infinite planes, one planeswalker cannot know everything that happens to each. Bolas had an interplanar empire to worry about, he might not have known about the Eldrazi.
3) Even if Bolas did know about the Eldrazi... why would he care? The Eldarzi are not rivals, they aren't trying to take over planes, they are eating them. The only conflict is if the Eldrazi are trying to eat a plane he controlled. (But given the near infinte nature of the multiverse that's unlikely to occur).
4) Ugin DO NOT ACT ALONE and DID NOT KILL THE ELDRAZI. I could set a trap and trap a bear, that doesn't mean i'm stronger then a bear. That doesn't mean someone should fear me because i trapped a bear. Ugin and firends trapping the Eldrazi show magical applitude and cunning, but doesn't mean they'd beat Bolas in a straight up fight.
5) The mending. Even if Ugin was stronger than Bolas (which we don't know), the mending stripped alot of power from the planeswalkers. Bolas was able to recharge his batteries with Alara. Bolas is more powerful now then most planeswalkers, he doesn't have much to fear.
Actually we do, at this current point, do know he is. The elder dragon wars came before the forming as the current (read pre urza) multiverse (and in fact is where wurms lost there wings and there elders). Him and his brothers were the survivors and victors. His brothers all dead now, he remains as the oldest, pre dating urza if urza was still kicking. His planeswalker status just came about more recently, before then being an elder dragon meant being something far more powerful.
Actually we do, at this current point, do know he is. The elder dragon wars came before the forming as the current (read pre urza) multiverse (and in fact is where wurms lost there wings and there elders). Him and his brothers were the survivors and victors. His brothers all dead now, he remains as the oldest, pre dating urza if urza was still kicking. His planeswalker status just came about more recently, before then being an elder dragon meant being something far more powerful.
Actually, the only thing we have to go on regarding the deaths of the other elders (besides the ones that got killed at the Summit of the Null Moon that is), is the word of Nicol Bolas, and he is a lying liar that lies.
I would not be the least bit surprised if Arcades Sabboth, Palladia Mors, or even Vaevectis Asmadi show up eventually.
We do know however that Nicol Bolas is the oldest planeswalker that is still alive as he was one of the first beings that ascended. (This has been mentioned by creative at least twice over the years).
He ascended during the Elder Dragon War, and a couple of thousand years later he fought an equally old planeswalker (who was in the form of a demonic leviathan) in what became the first ever planeswalker duel. In the aftermath of the duel he consumed the corpse of his slain foe adding its power to his own, leaving only blubber and parts of the opponents skeleton. The skeletal parts became the Talon Gates.
He then created an empire in Madara and used its large amounts of natural mana to create his Meditation Plane. He ruled as god emperor four 400 odd years before being brought low by a mere mortal.
He spent the next couple of thousand years in a discorporated form, until he manipulated events during the Time Spiral crisis to be reborn in physical form.
After his rebirth he left for Kamigawa (to take vengeance on the Myojin of Night's Reach who had been the indirect cause of his downfall by the hadns of the Umezawa line. Once he returned he had the spirts mask in his possession. When he returned he was ambushed by Leshrac, whom he promptly defeated and sealed within the mask. He then used Leshrac to seal the Medaran timerift, and left Dominaria at the end of Time Spiral (presumably for Alara)
After the Mending Bolas has become desperate to reach his previous powerlevel, and as such will go to nearly any length to obtain said goal. He has manipulated events on Alara so that he could get full access to the Maelstrom that was caused by the shards rejoining, he had a hand in the freeing of the Eldrazi, and he has agents infiltrating New Phyrexia.
Pre-mending there possibly only two planeswalkers who could measurably be considered more powerful than Bolas. (Urza and Teferi of Rabiah), Post-mending I'd set him at the highest power level, with only a handful of planeswalkers capable of even measuring themselves to him.
I'd argue that the only three known planeswalkers that are of equal power level would be Karn, Sorin, and Post-veil Liliana.
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
He then created an empire in Madara and used its large amounts of natural mana to create his Meditation Plane. He ruled as god emperor four 400 odd years before being brought low by a mere mortal.
He spent the next couple of thousand years in a discorporated form, until he manipulated events during the Time Spiral crisis to be reborn in physical form.
Couple a things.
He came back to Madara thousands of years after he had the duel.
Nicol Bolas is not responsible for creating the Meditation Realm. He used Madara to establish the imperial shrine so he could manifest on the world without cracking the firmaments of reality.
He only spent about 600-700 years in a ghostly form.
1) Bolas is not the oldest living being in the multiverse. It seems unlikely given the vast multiverse. He is one of the oldest planeswalkers.
2) There are near infinite planes, one planeswalker cannot know everything that happens to each. Bolas had an interplanar empire to worry about, he might not have known about the Eldrazi.
3) Even if Bolas did know about the Eldrazi... why would he care? The Eldarzi are not rivals, they aren't trying to take over planes, they are eating them. The only conflict is if the Eldrazi are trying to eat a plane he controlled. (But given the near infinte nature of the multiverse that's unlikely to occur).
4) Ugin DO NOT ACT ALONE and DID NOT KILL THE ELDRAZI. I could set a trap and trap a bear, that doesn't mean i'm stronger then a bear. That doesn't mean someone should fear me because i trapped a bear. Ugin and firends trapping the Eldrazi show magical applitude and cunning, but doesn't mean they'd beat Bolas in a straight up fight.
5) The mending. Even if Ugin was stronger than Bolas (which we don't know), the mending stripped alot of power from the planeswalkers. Bolas was able to recharge his batteries with Alara. Bolas is more powerful now then most planeswalkers, he doesn't have much to fear.
Actually in that plan Ugin is the one that had to actually combat the Eldrazi, Sorin lured them to the site, the Lithomancer constructed the trap, and Ugin battled them to a stalemate until the trap could be sprung. And as for the reason Nicol won that fight, he was born with the ability to destroy the mind of anyone he touched. That makes MOST fights against him slightly unfair.
Couple a things.
He came back to Madara thousands of years after he had the duel.
Nicol Bolas is not responsible for creating the Meditation Realm. He used Madara to establish the imperial shrine so he could manifest on the world without cracking the firmaments of reality.
He only spent about 600-700 years in a ghostly form.
Thank you for the clarification. However, if Bolas did not create the Meditation Realm, who did?
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
Thank you for the clarification. However, if Bolas did not create the Meditation Realm, who did?
It's not an artificial plane. It's a pocket plane attached to Dominaria that is only accessible from Madara.
The original Empress of Madara probably had access to it and shared it with her champion and assassin.
It's not an artificial plane. It's a pocket plane attached to Dominaria that is only accessible from Madara.
The original Empress of Madara probably had access to it and shared it with her champion and assassin.
Interesting.
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
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http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/30112033075/why-wasnt-ghostfire-reprinted-in-rise-of-the-eldrazi
While this answer could be given for any card they planned on never reprinting, chances are they'll come back around to the Eldrazi menace storyline. What better way than to have the original prison planner to show up?
Nicol Bolas still probably has him somewhere as a utility. Someone like Elspeth will get captured by bolas and some hero will go rescue mission and end up freeing Ugin and Leshrac and Teferi and anyone else you thought was dead in the process...
A Squirrel Wizard
A G?? (1-3 colors, including green) legendary creature with its main strat based on not attacking
He is a spirit dragon, as in he is from Kamigawa. However, he is also a planeswalker, so no, he is not undead.
Leshrac is gone, he was used to seal the Madean rift. Teferi isn't dead, he is retired and living the good life with his wife Jhoira. Note, when given the choice to save his own homeland (Jamuraa) or her homeland (Shiv), he chose the latter.
Nicol Bolas said he had to paraphrase "dealt with Ugin". Many people thought that meant he had killed the spirit dragon, but that is not actually what the Elder dragon said. And there is two things one has to keep in mind when it comes to Bolas. 1. He lies. And 2. When he doesn't lie, he uses what is known among villains as "exact words". I.e. he says something that can be interpreted differently from what is actually said.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
Like Maro himself!
Well, some people would argue that MaRo is a Super Villain.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
Where did we get the info that Ugin is indeed from Kamigawa? I don't think I've heard any confirmation about this; for all I know, he's the same type of dragon as Eternal Dragon (which is conveniently a Dragon Spirit).
At any rate, Bolas has probably "dealt with Ugin" hard enough that Sorin, his old comrade from the first Eldrazi sealing, has given up trying to contact him by Rise of the Eldrazi. I'm not so certain Ugin's becoming conscious anytime soon (and I don't think we're hearing from the lithomancer again).
We didn't get confirmation, he's just drawing a conclusion (faulty at that) because he's a spirit dragon.
For the record as well, the one appearance we got from the short story "How Many Eyes?" DOES in fact confirm he has more in common with Eternal Dragon that the Kamigawan dragons.
For the record as well, what MaRo probably meant was while they created that mechanic, it did not fit into the Rise model and so it is from a different "future" that future sight saw. Not that we'll still see him.
It's possible, but I don't think likely.
We are FAR more likely to see Chandra printed in a picture of Ghost Fire than to see Ugin come back.
I mean come on, not even Nicol had the balls to stand up to the Eldrazi, and I am going to assume he knew about them(he IS quoted multiple times as the oldest living being in the multiverse) so he definitely has some respect, if not fear, for Ugin.
Many thanks to DNC at Heroes of the Plane Studios
In fairness, he probably just didn't care and was confident enough that he could wipe them out if they ever bothered him.
If the Eldrazi are eating planes, as long as he wasn't keeping any of his stuff on that plane, he'd probably pull up a chair and popcorn to watch.
He also has no fear of Ugin. He's already beaten the sangrite out of him and put him in a hole. Ugin lost that fight. Badly.
To be fair, I have not read that story.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
There are many assumptions there:
Key among them...
1) Bolas is not the oldest living being in the multiverse. It seems unlikely given the vast multiverse. He is one of the oldest planeswalkers.
2) There are near infinite planes, one planeswalker cannot know everything that happens to each. Bolas had an interplanar empire to worry about, he might not have known about the Eldrazi.
3) Even if Bolas did know about the Eldrazi... why would he care? The Eldarzi are not rivals, they aren't trying to take over planes, they are eating them. The only conflict is if the Eldrazi are trying to eat a plane he controlled. (But given the near infinte nature of the multiverse that's unlikely to occur).
4) Ugin DO NOT ACT ALONE and DID NOT KILL THE ELDRAZI. I could set a trap and trap a bear, that doesn't mean i'm stronger then a bear. That doesn't mean someone should fear me because i trapped a bear. Ugin and firends trapping the Eldrazi show magical applitude and cunning, but doesn't mean they'd beat Bolas in a straight up fight.
5) The mending. Even if Ugin was stronger than Bolas (which we don't know), the mending stripped alot of power from the planeswalkers. Bolas was able to recharge his batteries with Alara. Bolas is more powerful now then most planeswalkers, he doesn't have much to fear.
Actually we do, at this current point, do know he is. The elder dragon wars came before the forming as the current (read pre urza) multiverse (and in fact is where wurms lost there wings and there elders). Him and his brothers were the survivors and victors. His brothers all dead now, he remains as the oldest, pre dating urza if urza was still kicking. His planeswalker status just came about more recently, before then being an elder dragon meant being something far more powerful.
Actually, the only thing we have to go on regarding the deaths of the other elders (besides the ones that got killed at the Summit of the Null Moon that is), is the word of Nicol Bolas, and he is a lying liar that lies.
I would not be the least bit surprised if Arcades Sabboth, Palladia Mors, or even Vaevectis Asmadi show up eventually.
We do know however that Nicol Bolas is the oldest planeswalker that is still alive as he was one of the first beings that ascended. (This has been mentioned by creative at least twice over the years).
He ascended during the Elder Dragon War, and a couple of thousand years later he fought an equally old planeswalker (who was in the form of a demonic leviathan) in what became the first ever planeswalker duel. In the aftermath of the duel he consumed the corpse of his slain foe adding its power to his own, leaving only blubber and parts of the opponents skeleton. The skeletal parts became the Talon Gates.
He then created an empire in Madara and used its large amounts of natural mana to create his Meditation Plane. He ruled as god emperor four 400 odd years before being brought low by a mere mortal.
He spent the next couple of thousand years in a discorporated form, until he manipulated events during the Time Spiral crisis to be reborn in physical form.
After his rebirth he left for Kamigawa (to take vengeance on the Myojin of Night's Reach who had been the indirect cause of his downfall by the hadns of the Umezawa line. Once he returned he had the spirts mask in his possession. When he returned he was ambushed by Leshrac, whom he promptly defeated and sealed within the mask. He then used Leshrac to seal the Medaran timerift, and left Dominaria at the end of Time Spiral (presumably for Alara)
After the Mending Bolas has become desperate to reach his previous powerlevel, and as such will go to nearly any length to obtain said goal. He has manipulated events on Alara so that he could get full access to the Maelstrom that was caused by the shards rejoining, he had a hand in the freeing of the Eldrazi, and he has agents infiltrating New Phyrexia.
Pre-mending there possibly only two planeswalkers who could measurably be considered more powerful than Bolas. (Urza and Teferi of Rabiah), Post-mending I'd set him at the highest power level, with only a handful of planeswalkers capable of even measuring themselves to him.
I'd argue that the only three known planeswalkers that are of equal power level would be Karn, Sorin, and Post-veil Liliana.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
Couple a things.
He came back to Madara thousands of years after he had the duel.
Nicol Bolas is not responsible for creating the Meditation Realm. He used Madara to establish the imperial shrine so he could manifest on the world without cracking the firmaments of reality.
He only spent about 600-700 years in a ghostly form.
Actually in that plan Ugin is the one that had to actually combat the Eldrazi, Sorin lured them to the site, the Lithomancer constructed the trap, and Ugin battled them to a stalemate until the trap could be sprung. And as for the reason Nicol won that fight, he was born with the ability to destroy the mind of anyone he touched. That makes MOST fights against him slightly unfair.
Many thanks to DNC at Heroes of the Plane Studios
Thank you for the clarification. However, if Bolas did not create the Meditation Realm, who did?
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
It's not an artificial plane. It's a pocket plane attached to Dominaria that is only accessible from Madara.
The original Empress of Madara probably had access to it and shared it with her champion and assassin.
Interesting.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.