Nacatl is strong but Zoo isn't a problem in Modern. It is the most widely played deck in Modern (if you count all Zoo variants together) but not a problem as far as power level. The format is diverse and several well known decks did better than Zoo at Worlds (judging from average win percent).
We don't have the obvious problems we did before the previous round of bannings. I'm going to bet that there is no change to the Modern banned list. If you think that something format-defining like JTMS or Misstep or Bitterblossom is going to be unbanned, I think you're dreaming. They're not about to throw a wrench in the works while they're still fine tuning the format.
There is nothing in the format that even comes close to matching the efficiency of a 3/3 creature for G. Zoo represented almost 30% of the entire field of professional players. A couple of these players even came out and said that they didn't know how to beat Zoo, so they just built Zoo and tuned for the mirror. How is that not the definition of format-warping?
Beating zoo in and of itself is perfectly achievable, make removal+wraths.dek. Beating zoo and being able to beat any slower or more controlling deck, however.... more challenging.
Brainstorm cannot be banned if Legacy is to survive as a practical popular format. Period.
I think if an entire format rests on the shoulders of a single card being playable shows the very unproductive aspects of the card itself. When you go this card is so format defining that without it then it dies then that should be a wake up call that it is probly too powerful and needs to be removed. I am sorry, but you kind of defined my point with your attempted counter logic.
Black cards?
- Inquisition of Kozilek
- Dismember
- Go for the Throat
- Bloodghast
- Sheoldred, Whispering One
- Geth's Verdict
- Victim of Night
- Liliana of the Veil
- Phyrexian Obliterator
- Praetor's Grasp
- Surgical Extraction
- Ravenous Trap
- Sadistic Scarament
Green?
- Scavenging Ooze
- Beast Within
- Nature's Claim
- Terrastodon
- Thrun, the Last Troll
- Vengevine
Red?
- Past in Flames
- Galvanic Blast
- Gut Shot
- Warren Instigator
- Manic Vandal
- Moltensteel Dragon
- Punishing Fire
- Pyromancer Ascension
- Splinter Twin
White?
- Iona, Shield of Emeria
- Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
- Leonin Arbiter
- Leyline of Sanctity
- Luminarch Ascension
- Mirran Crusader
- Nevermore
- Purify the Grave
- Steppe Lynx
- Stony Silence
Should I go on?
Yeah, the other colors totally got screwed...
Anyways, back on topic, I expect no changes, the formats seem healthy to me. I think Vintage could handle Burning Wish, but I don't trust that they will unban it.
The guy said eternal cards, not every crap you can name out of your head.
I think if an entire format rests on the shoulders of a single card being playable shows the very unproductive aspects of the card itself. When you go this card is so format defining that without it then it dies then that should be a wake up call that it is probly too powerful and needs to be removed. I am sorry, but you kind of defined my point with your attempted counter logic.
Not really. Vintage and Legacy are both 100% dependent on the existence of Force of Will to remain interesting formats, banning that would be insanity. Banning brainstorm is an option, but would require the banning of many, many other cards, making for an ultimately almost unrecognizable format. Given that many, many people like legacy the way it is, that's not a particularly sensible choice.
It's not about thinking that Jace of Bitterblossom will be unbanned. They won't be.
It's about realizing that Jace and Bitterblossom should be unbanned and that even if they were they wouldn't dominate the format like Zoo does.
If they start unbanning cards in Modern, which I dont think they will start doing yet, they will strat on the lower side of the power curve before getting to the top end in power like Jace 2.0, Blossom or SFM. Hopeully they do it slow and a card at a time so we can actually see whats too powerful for the format and whats not. But I dont think they will, they will just unban 5-7 cards and say, 'lets see what happens'.
Not really. Vintage and Legacy are both 100% dependent on the existence of Force of Will to remain interesting formats, banning that would be insanity. Banning brainstorm is an option, but would require the banning of many, many other cards, making for an ultimately almost unrecognizable format. Given that many, many people like legacy the way it is, that's not a particularly sensible choice.
you are completely right. He is one of the handful of blind blue haters on here though and you aren't going to make any progress in arguing about it.
Standard- bans once in a blue moon, nothing even worthwhile atm. Call me when we have 32 of the same card in the top 8 and one deck with 40%+ share of the meta.
Extended-pretty sure this is getting axed as a format
Modern- ideally they should unban visions and bitterblossom. There are plenty of cards stronger than that in modern (dark confidant being my hallmark example) but wizards really really against enabling control to be viable in this format.
Legacy- nothing worth banning atm, cards to watch are delver of secrets, brainstorm, and snapcaster however I highly doubt wizards will ban brainstorm knowing how much interest it would kill in the format.
Cards on the watch list to be unbanned- Goblin recruiter, land tax, and earthcraft (if you notice the latter two prices pretty much always rise around ban announcements because the common consensus is its only a matter of time till they come off the list.)
vintage- slasher panther restricted
power nine off the restricted list.
Nah I'm joking I doubt they'd touch this format anymore, they killed it good with the last round of restrictions in it and I think that was the last they'll do anything to this format.
I think if an entire format rests on the shoulders of a single card being playable shows the very unproductive aspects of the card itself. When you go this card is so format defining that without it then it dies then that should be a wake up call that it is probly too powerful and needs to be removed. I am sorry, but you kind of defined my point with your attempted counter logic.
What about the fact that a really big chunk of the playerbase literally only plays legacy because they like Brainstorm and it's the only place left to play it.
That's a pretty decent reason why the format would fall apart without it. Hell, if people really wanted to win at Legacy, we'd see a lot more GW Maverick decks and a lot less brainstorm; that's how it is in Europe. The case elsewhere however, is that people like to play with blue cards a lot, so they're willing to play a deck that isn't the best positioned, but has the cards they like to use.
...Legacy- nothing worth banning atm, cards to watch are delver of secrets, brainstorm, and snapcaster however I highly doubt wizards will ban brainstorm knowing how much interest it would kill in the format.
This is true. Delver and Bstorm are fine. I'm nervous about Snapcaster because he's just amazing and I bought him when he first came out. I'd hate to lose money on the card but I'm not gonna lie the things you can do with him are nuts.
Cards on the watch list to be unbanned- Goblin recruiter, land tax, and earthcraft (if you notice the latter two prices pretty much always rise around ban announcements because the common consensus is its only a matter of time till they come off the list.)
Land Tax leads my unbanned %, but to be honest the format is very healthy. I think recruiter is over-the-top. Unbanning recruiter would come at the expense of banning other key cards such as food chain, matron, or ringleader (all of which are fine as-is). Recruiter turns goblins into auto-win by T4.
@Modern:
I would like to believe this format gets re-adjusted. I ask about what people play and the general consensus is "creatures" because there's no other avenues to deckbuild. I can't see WotC continuing to restrict the format. It's an embarassment. JtmS wouldn't alleviate the problem. I think you'd need Blossom and Visions (perhaps not together at once). Ponder is also crucial towards opening up deckbuilding.
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That which nourishes me, destroys me
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
Land Tax leads my unbanned %, but to be honest the format is very healthy. I think recruiter is over-the-top. Unbanning recruiter would come at the expense of banning other key cards such as food chain, matron, or ringleader (all of which are fine as-is). Recruiter turns goblins into auto-win by T4.
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Point taken on recruiter but since the format is healthy I don't see the harm in earthcraft and/or land tax coming off. Both those were banned from a format very very different that what legacy has become. Between the two I don't even see earthcraft as viable in legacy and I think land tax would be a niche card at best.
just so were clear, modern is not ONLY about creature decks atm. Im not sure why people keep saying this. I've run many a control or midrange list and i do just fine against zoo. Its because zoo was the only deck that showed up at worlds that people think its the only viable deck. I will agree that is definitely the most POWERFUL deck atm, but many decks can easily beat it. Zoo is just brainless turning cards sideways and modern IS a lot of that right now, but there is hope if people simply STOP believing that there is no way out of Wild Nacatl (banned please)
Jace won;t be unbanned. T2 Wall of omens T3 Jace off a dork? SCREW THAT, i stopped playing standard for a reason last year
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EDH RADAMARO, FIRST TO DESIRER UKEFNET THE MINDFULU GSASAYA, OROCHI ASCENDANTG MODERN RMONO-RED ELDRAZIR
just so were clear, modern is not ONLY about creature decks atm. Im not sure why people keep saying this. I've run many a control or midrange list and i do just fine against zoo. Its because zoo was the only deck that showed up at worlds that people think its the only viable deck. I will agree that is definitely the most POWERFUL deck atm, but many decks can easily beat it. Zoo is just brainless turning cards sideways and modern IS a lot of that right now, but there is hope if people simply STOP believing that there is no way out of Wild Nacatl (banned please)
Jace won;t be unbanned. T2 Wall of omens T3 Jace off a dork? SCREW THAT, i stopped playing standard for a reason last year
You can beat any deck if you really want to build a deck to beat only that. You could probably even build a deck that beats both Zoo and Splinter Twin. But you'd be in trouble against the other control decks that happen to show up, probably a coin flip, and I'm guessing storm would be an issue. The problem is that you have to build your deck with Zoo mostly in mind, and it limits how good the deck is against the rest of the field.
I'm not saying anything should or needs to be done, but to say that Zoo doesn't warp the format to some extent would be wrong. It's just a matter of how much WOTC cares about that warping.
Well, you have to understand, it was his unofficial format, and he really had to convince people to play, so by auto-killing a deck that maybe 1% of Magic players enjoy, he was making people more inclineded to play his format. If Overextended ever became "real", the support from WoTC would make people play, and Dredge could be a deck
Combos will rise and hopefully all the players will leave.
We have a very long way to go for that.
There is nothing in the format that even comes close to matching the efficiency of a 3/3 creature for G. Zoo represented almost 30% of the entire field of professional players. A couple of these players even came out and said that they didn't know how to beat Zoo, so they just built Zoo and tuned for the mirror. How is that not the definition of format-warping?
Legacy: UB(R/G) Storm UB(R/G)
Vintage: UBG Gush Storm UBG
It's about realizing that Jace and Bitterblossom should be unbanned and that even if they were they wouldn't dominate the format like Zoo does.
I think if an entire format rests on the shoulders of a single card being playable shows the very unproductive aspects of the card itself. When you go this card is so format defining that without it then it dies then that should be a wake up call that it is probly too powerful and needs to be removed. I am sorry, but you kind of defined my point with your attempted counter logic.
The guy said eternal cards, not every crap you can name out of your head.
Not really. Vintage and Legacy are both 100% dependent on the existence of Force of Will to remain interesting formats, banning that would be insanity. Banning brainstorm is an option, but would require the banning of many, many other cards, making for an ultimately almost unrecognizable format. Given that many, many people like legacy the way it is, that's not a particularly sensible choice.
If they start unbanning cards in Modern, which I dont think they will start doing yet, they will strat on the lower side of the power curve before getting to the top end in power like Jace 2.0, Blossom or SFM. Hopeully they do it slow and a card at a time so we can actually see whats too powerful for the format and whats not. But I dont think they will, they will just unban 5-7 cards and say, 'lets see what happens'.
you are completely right. He is one of the handful of blind blue haters on here though and you aren't going to make any progress in arguing about it.
Then they'll ban Nacatl.
Just give me Punishing Fire off the board, that's all I want. *runs away*
Some people just love Jace a little too much
Extended-pretty sure this is getting axed as a format
Modern- ideally they should unban visions and bitterblossom. There are plenty of cards stronger than that in modern (dark confidant being my hallmark example) but wizards really really against enabling control to be viable in this format.
Legacy- nothing worth banning atm, cards to watch are delver of secrets, brainstorm, and snapcaster however I highly doubt wizards will ban brainstorm knowing how much interest it would kill in the format.
Cards on the watch list to be unbanned- Goblin recruiter, land tax, and earthcraft (if you notice the latter two prices pretty much always rise around ban announcements because the common consensus is its only a matter of time till they come off the list.)
vintage- slasher panther restricted
power nine off the restricted list.
Nah I'm joking I doubt they'd touch this format anymore, they killed it good with the last round of restrictions in it and I think that was the last they'll do anything to this format.
What about the fact that a really big chunk of the playerbase literally only plays legacy because they like Brainstorm and it's the only place left to play it.
That's a pretty decent reason why the format would fall apart without it. Hell, if people really wanted to win at Legacy, we'd see a lot more GW Maverick decks and a lot less brainstorm; that's how it is in Europe. The case elsewhere however, is that people like to play with blue cards a lot, so they're willing to play a deck that isn't the best positioned, but has the cards they like to use.
This is true. Delver and Bstorm are fine. I'm nervous about Snapcaster because he's just amazing and I bought him when he first came out. I'd hate to lose money on the card but I'm not gonna lie the things you can do with him are nuts.
Land Tax leads my unbanned %, but to be honest the format is very healthy. I think recruiter is over-the-top. Unbanning recruiter would come at the expense of banning other key cards such as food chain, matron, or ringleader (all of which are fine as-is). Recruiter turns goblins into auto-win by T4.
@Modern:
I would like to believe this format gets re-adjusted. I ask about what people play and the general consensus is "creatures" because there's no other avenues to deckbuild. I can't see WotC continuing to restrict the format. It's an embarassment. JtmS wouldn't alleviate the problem. I think you'd need Blossom and Visions (perhaps not together at once). Ponder is also crucial towards opening up deckbuilding.
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
Point taken on recruiter but since the format is healthy I don't see the harm in earthcraft and/or land tax coming off. Both those were banned from a format very very different that what legacy has become. Between the two I don't even see earthcraft as viable in legacy and I think land tax would be a niche card at best.
Jace won;t be unbanned. T2 Wall of omens T3 Jace off a dork? SCREW THAT, i stopped playing standard for a reason last year
RADAMARO, FIRST TO DESIRER
UKEFNET THE MINDFULU
GSASAYA, OROCHI ASCENDANTG
MODERN
RMONO-RED ELDRAZIR
You can beat any deck if you really want to build a deck to beat only that. You could probably even build a deck that beats both Zoo and Splinter Twin. But you'd be in trouble against the other control decks that happen to show up, probably a coin flip, and I'm guessing storm would be an issue. The problem is that you have to build your deck with Zoo mostly in mind, and it limits how good the deck is against the rest of the field.
I'm not saying anything should or needs to be done, but to say that Zoo doesn't warp the format to some extent would be wrong. It's just a matter of how much WOTC cares about that warping.
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
Legacy: Something relatively exciting
Standard: Nothing
Extended: LOL
Modern: Legalize Onslaught/Odyssey Block banning Patriarch's Bidding & Upheaval
Literally, I can't take modern as a serious format when half the fetches "aren't modern."
Nonetheless, they better do something drastic to modern.
If we legalize onslaught and odyssey the format will be nothing but vial goblins and second sunrise decks.
Count me In.
Modern
:rakdos::selesnya: goblins
:symr::symb::symg: Glass Cannon Griselbrand
sig made by Hakai Studios (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=6100225)
And Psychatog. Oh lawds the Psychatog.
Legacy: UB(R/G) Storm UB(R/G)
Vintage: UBG Gush Storm UBG
I could get behind gro-a-tog. But at this point we might as well scrap modern and go to overextended.
Modern
:rakdos::selesnya: goblins
:symr::symb::symg: Glass Cannon Griselbrand
sig made by Hakai Studios (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=6100225)
I would like nothing more. Plus, Gavin would likely be in charge, and that means no more banning cards because they "might be dominant"
Except for the fact that he banned Dread Return, Bridge from Below, and Narcomoeba before the games even began..
Well, you have to understand, it was his unofficial format, and he really had to convince people to play, so by auto-killing a deck that maybe 1% of Magic players enjoy, he was making people more inclineded to play his format. If Overextended ever became "real", the support from WoTC would make people play, and Dredge could be a deck
Ambition must be made to counteract ambition.
Individualities may form communities, but it is institutions alone that can create a nation.
Nothing succeeds like the appearance of success.
Here is my principle: Taxes shall be levied according to ability to pay. That is the only American principle.