Judging by the flavor of Markov Patrician and the new Sorin art on the preview of DKA, it seems that Innistrad is the original home plane of everyone's favorite bon-vivant vampire, and he's coming home...
With the notable exception of Nicol Bolas, Sorin is by far the oldest living planeswalker; exploring the multiverse for the sake of entertainment since his spark ignited. What reason could he have for returning after all this time?
As hes my second favorite walker after Chandra, I'm super excited to find out. Any ideas?
With the notable exception of Nicol Bolas, Sorin is by far the oldest living planeswalker; exploring the multiverse for the sake of entertainment since his spark ignited. What reason could he have for returning after all this time?
Innistrad strikes me as a fairly provincial plane. Only populated by humans. Superstition clouds the minds of most. The vampire overlords are just concerned with getting blood, not real power or knowledge. It's a bit of a backwater. I actually like that about it. Not every plane can be Zendikar.
Sorin is likely back because some very dangerous Planeswalker <cough>Liliana<cough> has stumbled onto his home plane and is stirring up trouble. She's drawing the attention of other lunatic planeswalers to this plane <cough>Garuk<cough>, and is likely going to play around with big, dangerous, monumental schemes that could involve anything from eliminating all demons, to eliminating all angels, to accidently knocking the moon from its orbit.
Sorin is coming home to clean house. Can't have demi-gods screwing around in your childhood town, so to speak.
Sorin is coming home to clean house. Can't have demi-gods screwing around in your childhood town, so to speak.
Somehow I doubt this. Sorin may not be as selfish or ambitious as Liliana but he still embodies the pure black philosophy: he does what he wants and goes where he wants, driven almost ENTIRELY to sate his boredom...
If we think of Innistrad as the "back-water" plane you describe, (which I think is a very good point btw) then I can't really see Sorin looking back on his old home with too much affection. The vampires and other monsters of Innistrad only care about power and blood, the humans only care about survival. Boring...
No, I think like Lilliana he's searching for something or someone.
Somehow I doubt this. Sorin may not be as selfish or ambitious as Liliana but he still embodies the pure black philosophy: he does what he wants and goes where he wants, driven almost ENTIRELY to sate his boredom...
If we think of Innistrad as the "back-water" plane you describe, (which I think is a very good point btw) then I can't really see Sorin looking back on his old home with too much affection. The vampires and other monsters of Innistrad only care about power and blood, the humans only care about survival. Boring...
No, I think like Lilliana he's searching for something or someone.
Maybe an old ally?
Sorin may be black aligned, but he is also loyal, else he would have had little reason to return to Zendikar when the seal was weakened. He returned to Zendikar, because it was something he had promised Ugin and the Lithomancer. I assume he is returning to Innistrad for similar reasons, in this case, loyalty to his family. Yes, black is the most self-centered of the five colors in magic, but it has other attributes as well.
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Keep in mind that loyalty to your family can be self-centered. Self-centered people I know seem to think their family is better than everyone else's. Self-centered people seem to think their dumpy hometown is better than the big city.
Yes, black is the most self-centered of the five colors in magic, but it has other attributes as well.
It's probably better to say that Sorin has more attributes than black, or at least could. Only the lorwyn 5 were really built as one-dimensional color exemplars.
It's probably better to say that Sorin has more attributes than black, or at least could. Only the lorwyn 5 were really built as one-dimensional color exemplars.
I see where you're coming from and agree for the most part, but still don't see it that way. Just look at Gideon, the hero avenger trying to save the day...how much more white-aligned can you get?
But I do believe many of the non-lorywn planeswalkers to not be of the typical model. I mean, just look at Nissa. Nissa may have been an elf, but she was certainly not the nicest individual and debatebly worse of a character than Sorin in their finagling. The color characteristics of these walkers are not that of the original five, but Sorin does of course exhibit some black qualities, such as not caring what happens to others as long as it brings him great pleasure and amusement, but there are other qualities as well. He has helped others in the past and the present and obviously has a lot of connections, as the Planeswalker page for Sorin says, "Sorin does feel the pull of more lasting concerns, and over his long life this tendency has resulted in an arcane schedule of engagements and forays to far-flung planes. As a result Sorin is a busy man, planeswalking frequently to pursue concerns known only to him. Sorin always seems to have business elsewhere." So it is clear that Sorin has many obligations and business, but what it is is a mystery.
We can guess what would bring Sarkhan to the plane (as he was told to get the veil from Liliana), but we cannot figure out what would bring Sorin there besides the fact that it is his home plane.
I for one agree that his returning home may have something to do with Liliana. But then again, after what happened in Zendikar, perhaps he's just going back to take a rest, as he doesn't want to be involved any further in Zendikar. *sigh* It's hard to guess mysterious people </obvious>
Being selfish doesn't mean you're incapable of caring about other things. You just tend to care about things that matter to you, if that's at all clear. Of course you can also show emotion, curiosity, loyalty and the like without actually being the color associated with it.
Take for example the situation on Zendikar. Sorin returned to try to keep the Eldrazi sealed, right? It may have been because he gave his word, and maintaining a promise is what is important to him. Maybe it's because the Eldrazi are terribly powerful, and it would be wise for him to make sure they don't come looking for vengeance. Both those are selfish motivations, and are easily justified as Black. I'm sure he didn't return because it was the right thing to do, because it upset the plane's natural order, or to learn and observe (White, Green, Blue respectively). It's not so much What a character does as much as their Motivations for doing it.
As for Innistrad? If it is indeed his home plane (or at least his current home), returning to set things straight probably isnt because he seeks Justice, Balance, or other noble motivation. It's likely more along the lines of these kids are making a mess of his lawn, and if there's one thing he hates it's people touching his things. If the plane is rebalanced, and peace and order reign again it's not because Sorin cared at all about the inhabitants, it's because it make his own property look bad if the neighborhood went to hell (literally).
Anyway, I kind of got away from myself. Yeah, I think Sorin has roots of some kind on Innistrad, and wants to keep his stomping grounds nice and not he center of somebody else's multidimensional war.
Really? I see a lot of white in Sorin. I've always interpreted the fact that he returned to Zendikar to help reseal the Eldrazi (the only one of the original three to do so, I might add) when he had nothing particular to gain from it and quite a lot that he could potentially lose (like his life). But he made a promise, and he keeps his promises. That feels like a white trait to me. I'm at least under the impression that even though the Eldrazi have been released, they're still trapped in their physical forms and unable to leave Zendikar. I might be completely wrong about that, though.
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Really? I see a lot of white in Sorin. I've always interpreted the fact that he returned to Zendikar to help reseal the Eldrazi (the only one of the original three to do so, I might add) when he had nothing particular to gain from it and quite a lot that he could potentially lose (like his life). But he made a promise, and he keeps his promises. That feels like a white trait to me. I'm at least under the impression that even though the Eldrazi have been released, they're still trapped in their physical forms and unable to leave Zendikar. I might be completely wrong about that, though.
It isn't. If Sorin were white in Zendikar then his card would be white. Keeping your word isn't a "white" thing. Blue characters, red characters, and even green characters are capable of keeping thier word.
Really? I see a lot of white in Sorin. I've always interpreted the fact that he returned to Zendikar to help reseal the Eldrazi (the only one of the original three to do so, I might add) when he had nothing particular to gain from it and quite a lot that he could potentially lose (like his life). But he made a promise, and he keeps his promises.
You need to ask why he would make a promise at a time that he had no intention of keeping. What did he have to gain back then? Would whatever he gained then possibly be lost now if he went back on his promise?
... returning to set things straight probably isnt because he seeks Justice, Balance, or other noble motivation. It's likely more along the lines of these kids are making a mess of his lawn, and if there's one thing he hates it's people touching his things.
This. I really get the feeling SOrin is going back along these lines.
We can guess what would bring Sarkhan to the plane (as he was told to get the veil from Liliana), but we cannot figure out what would bring Sorin there besides the fact that it is his home plane.
Obligations to family obviously. His family is one of the big Innistradi vampire families, and was apparently the first. We all know Sorin is ancient, even by planeswalker standards (second only to Bolas of the planeswalkers we know of, so far), and his *grandfather* is still around on Innistrad.
Sorin is black aligned because he is a vampire and feeds on blood (a very black thing to do), he is guided by intellect not instinct/emotion, thus preventing him from being red. Black characters can be loyal (after all, even the mono-black faeries in Llorwyn where loyal to Oona). Self-centeredness is common for black characters, yes, but far from all black characters are (Xantcha anyone?), just as many black characters are greedy or lust for power. Again, not all do.
Sorin went to Zendikar because he had an obligation to try and prevent the seal from breaking, once the seal was broken (due to Nissa), he left.
If he had really cared, he would have stayed and fought the Eldrazi, he didn't. In the same vein, he has an obligation to his family, and as such he has returned to Innistrad.
To take an example from literature: The vampire Lestat (not the one from the movie), is a very black character, but he is also incredibly loyal to his family (thus, when his mother was dying from tuberculosis, he turned her into a vampire) and friends (He turned Claudia due to loyalty to Louis, even though he knew that it would lead to problems down the line), And his (misplaced) loyalty to the vampire queen was what caused a chain of events that ended up killing (roughly) two-thirds of the worlds vampires.
Basically, just as black is not always evil, it is not automatically disloyal or greedy. It has other traits as well, and is even capable of being heroic (Toshiro Umezawa), in its own way.
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Sorin will return after making a deal with Avacyn to unite the humans and vampires against all the other less civilized monsters. Sorin has already shown hes a borderline good guy, so reining in his own race for the greater good is not out of character.
He's the 90's anti-hero of planeswalkers. y'know, except less emo.
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To the guy who said Sorin was the only one loyal enough to return to Zendikar, Ugin was killed by Nicol Bolas and the third planeswalker (a female lithomancer) is most likely dead as well.
Of course bad guys can fight the same enemies/causes the good guys fight as long a they benefit from it.
To the guy who said Sorin was the only one loyal enough to return to Zendikar, Ugin was killed by Nicol Bolas and the third planeswalker (a female lithomancer) is most likely dead as well.
Of course bad guys can fight the same enemies/causes the good guys fight as long a they benefit from it.
Actually, Wizards haven't never stated whether Ugin is dead or not. Only that Bolas captured him.
Or I've been lied to. If that's the case, I blame anyone who edits the MTGS Wiki.
To the guy who said Sorin was the only one loyal enough to return to Zendikar, Ugin was killed by Nicol Bolas and the third planeswalker (a female lithomancer) is most likely dead as well.
Of course bad guys can fight the same enemies/causes the good guys fight as long a they benefit from it.
I never said that he was the only one loyal enough, I said he had made a promise to return to Zendikar should the seals weaken, which is why he was there. I am well aware that Bolas has killed Ugin (or rather than Bolas claims he has killed Ugin, the words of evil dragons are not always the truth). As for what happened to the Lithomancer, that is an unknown quantity, but as you said, she is most likely dead (unless she belongs to a very long lived species, it is a given).
Black thinks about the self, but thinking about the self can also mean that one is very loyal to ones family, friends, and allies. And Sorin is very loyal to his family and allies.
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
So what do you think are the odds that we'll get more Sorin-related cards, like the *puts on sunglasses* Markov Blanket? They could even reprint a card depicting Sorin's cousin, who put aside her name and birthright to pursue a blooming career in the glamorous world of lingerie modeling. Y'know, a Hidden Markov Model...
So what do you think are the odds that we'll get more Sorin-related cards, like the *puts on sunglasses* Markov Blanket? They could even reprint a card depicting Sorin's cousin, who put aside her name and birthright to pursue a blooming career in the glamorous world of lingerie modeling. Y'know, a Hidden Markov Model...
With the notable exception of Nicol Bolas, Sorin is by far the oldest living planeswalker; exploring the multiverse for the sake of entertainment since his spark ignited. What reason could he have for returning after all this time?
As hes my second favorite walker after Chandra, I'm super excited to find out. Any ideas?
Innistrad strikes me as a fairly provincial plane. Only populated by humans. Superstition clouds the minds of most. The vampire overlords are just concerned with getting blood, not real power or knowledge. It's a bit of a backwater. I actually like that about it. Not every plane can be Zendikar.
Sorin is likely back because some very dangerous Planeswalker <cough>Liliana<cough> has stumbled onto his home plane and is stirring up trouble. She's drawing the attention of other lunatic planeswalers to this plane <cough>Garuk<cough>, and is likely going to play around with big, dangerous, monumental schemes that could involve anything from eliminating all demons, to eliminating all angels, to accidently knocking the moon from its orbit.
Sorin is coming home to clean house. Can't have demi-gods screwing around in your childhood town, so to speak.
How To Keep Your FOIL Cards From Curling: http://youtu.be/QTmubrS8VnI
The Best Deck Boxes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEwgLph_Pjk
The Best Binders: http://youtu.be/H5IauASYWjk
Somehow I doubt this. Sorin may not be as selfish or ambitious as Liliana but he still embodies the pure black philosophy: he does what he wants and goes where he wants, driven almost ENTIRELY to sate his boredom...
If we think of Innistrad as the "back-water" plane you describe, (which I think is a very good point btw) then I can't really see Sorin looking back on his old home with too much affection. The vampires and other monsters of Innistrad only care about power and blood, the humans only care about survival. Boring...
No, I think like Lilliana he's searching for something or someone.
Maybe an old ally?
Sorin may be black aligned, but he is also loyal, else he would have had little reason to return to Zendikar when the seal was weakened. He returned to Zendikar, because it was something he had promised Ugin and the Lithomancer. I assume he is returning to Innistrad for similar reasons, in this case, loyalty to his family. Yes, black is the most self-centered of the five colors in magic, but it has other attributes as well.
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Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
How To Keep Your FOIL Cards From Curling: http://youtu.be/QTmubrS8VnI
The Best Deck Boxes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEwgLph_Pjk
The Best Binders: http://youtu.be/H5IauASYWjk
It's probably better to say that Sorin has more attributes than black, or at least could. Only the lorwyn 5 were really built as one-dimensional color exemplars.
I see where you're coming from and agree for the most part, but still don't see it that way. Just look at Gideon, the hero avenger trying to save the day...how much more white-aligned can you get?
But I do believe many of the non-lorywn planeswalkers to not be of the typical model. I mean, just look at Nissa. Nissa may have been an elf, but she was certainly not the nicest individual and debatebly worse of a character than Sorin in their finagling. The color characteristics of these walkers are not that of the original five, but Sorin does of course exhibit some black qualities, such as not caring what happens to others as long as it brings him great pleasure and amusement, but there are other qualities as well. He has helped others in the past and the present and obviously has a lot of connections, as the Planeswalker page for Sorin says, "Sorin does feel the pull of more lasting concerns, and over his long life this tendency has resulted in an arcane schedule of engagements and forays to far-flung planes. As a result Sorin is a busy man, planeswalking frequently to pursue concerns known only to him. Sorin always seems to have business elsewhere." So it is clear that Sorin has many obligations and business, but what it is is a mystery.
We can guess what would bring Sarkhan to the plane (as he was told to get the veil from Liliana), but we cannot figure out what would bring Sorin there besides the fact that it is his home plane.
Take for example the situation on Zendikar. Sorin returned to try to keep the Eldrazi sealed, right? It may have been because he gave his word, and maintaining a promise is what is important to him. Maybe it's because the Eldrazi are terribly powerful, and it would be wise for him to make sure they don't come looking for vengeance. Both those are selfish motivations, and are easily justified as Black. I'm sure he didn't return because it was the right thing to do, because it upset the plane's natural order, or to learn and observe (White, Green, Blue respectively). It's not so much What a character does as much as their Motivations for doing it.
As for Innistrad? If it is indeed his home plane (or at least his current home), returning to set things straight probably isnt because he seeks Justice, Balance, or other noble motivation. It's likely more along the lines of these kids are making a mess of his lawn, and if there's one thing he hates it's people touching his things. If the plane is rebalanced, and peace and order reign again it's not because Sorin cared at all about the inhabitants, it's because it make his own property look bad if the neighborhood went to hell (literally).
Anyway, I kind of got away from myself. Yeah, I think Sorin has roots of some kind on Innistrad, and wants to keep his stomping grounds nice and not he center of somebody else's multidimensional war.
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Jodah, Archmage Eternal
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Marisi Coilbreaker
O-Kagachi
Gix, Phyrexian Praetor
Karn, Father of Machines
Yawgmoth, Father of Machines
Serra, Mother of All Angels
Tevesh Szat, Doom of Fools
Leshrac the Nightwalker
Jeska, the Thrice-Touched
Elspeth Returned
Crucius the Mad
Taysir the Infinite
Urza's Head (Unglued!)
It isn't. If Sorin were white in Zendikar then his card would be white. Keeping your word isn't a "white" thing. Blue characters, red characters, and even green characters are capable of keeping thier word.
You need to ask why he would make a promise at a time that he had no intention of keeping. What did he have to gain back then? Would whatever he gained then possibly be lost now if he went back on his promise?
This. I really get the feeling SOrin is going back along these lines.
"Liliana! Garuk! Dang it! Get off MY lawn!"
How To Keep Your FOIL Cards From Curling: http://youtu.be/QTmubrS8VnI
The Best Deck Boxes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEwgLph_Pjk
The Best Binders: http://youtu.be/H5IauASYWjk
Obligations to family obviously. His family is one of the big Innistradi vampire families, and was apparently the first. We all know Sorin is ancient, even by planeswalker standards (second only to Bolas of the planeswalkers we know of, so far), and his *grandfather* is still around on Innistrad.
Sorin is black aligned because he is a vampire and feeds on blood (a very black thing to do), he is guided by intellect not instinct/emotion, thus preventing him from being red. Black characters can be loyal (after all, even the mono-black faeries in Llorwyn where loyal to Oona). Self-centeredness is common for black characters, yes, but far from all black characters are (Xantcha anyone?), just as many black characters are greedy or lust for power. Again, not all do.
Sorin went to Zendikar because he had an obligation to try and prevent the seal from breaking, once the seal was broken (due to Nissa), he left.
If he had really cared, he would have stayed and fought the Eldrazi, he didn't. In the same vein, he has an obligation to his family, and as such he has returned to Innistrad.
To take an example from literature: The vampire Lestat (not the one from the movie), is a very black character, but he is also incredibly loyal to his family (thus, when his mother was dying from tuberculosis, he turned her into a vampire) and friends (He turned Claudia due to loyalty to Louis, even though he knew that it would lead to problems down the line), And his (misplaced) loyalty to the vampire queen was what caused a chain of events that ended up killing (roughly) two-thirds of the worlds vampires.
Basically, just as black is not always evil, it is not automatically disloyal or greedy. It has other traits as well, and is even capable of being heroic (Toshiro Umezawa), in its own way.
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Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
He's the 90's anti-hero of planeswalkers. y'know, except less emo.
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Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
He just needs a black T-shirt with a white skull logo.
GGG [Primer] Omnath, Big Green Beatstick Machine GGG
Lmao, I love this
Of course bad guys can fight the same enemies/causes the good guys fight as long a they benefit from it.
Actually, Wizards haven't never stated whether Ugin is dead or not. Only that Bolas captured him.
Or I've been lied to. If that's the case, I blame anyone who edits the MTGS Wiki.
Correct. Ugin is probably still in Bolas' clutches.
I never said that he was the only one loyal enough, I said he had made a promise to return to Zendikar should the seals weaken, which is why he was there. I am well aware that Bolas has killed Ugin (or rather than Bolas claims he has killed Ugin, the words of evil dragons are not always the truth). As for what happened to the Lithomancer, that is an unknown quantity, but as you said, she is most likely dead (unless she belongs to a very long lived species, it is a given).
Black thinks about the self, but thinking about the self can also mean that one is very loyal to ones family, friends, and allies. And Sorin is very loyal to his family and allies.
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Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
With magic puns like these, I bet this man has explored all sorts of realms uncharted with his rod of ruin!
/very mean sarcasm