Commander to be sanctioned?

  • #51
    Quote from johnny42strom
    My idea was, essentially, you could sanction a "casual" event, naming the players in it, and, if you want, describe the format (Commander, Casual FFA, Cube, Planechase, etc). This would not be for points or DCI rating, all it would do is allow wizards to better understand the players ate your store and what formats are popular.

    This would have mattered more when WPN was around. It would allow the more casual players to still "play" for WPN awards, maybe limit it to counting one "casual" event per day to avoid abuse. Nonetheless, it wold have given casual players an excuse to get out of the den and go to your LGS, since it would go towards WPN and likely some free promos.


    Did I miss something? I thought WPN was around, and this was the entire point of it.
  • #52
    I really doubt this will happen anytime soon they still have yet to really even push 2HG as a serious format.

    Feel free to bid on my cards here!
  • #53
    Quote from Monopoman
    I really doubt this will happen anytime soon they still have yet to really even push 2HG as a serious format.


    Because 2HG isn't a serious format. If anyone even remotely tried to break 2HG it would be horrible. Storm..ugh.
  • #54
    Quote from xCHRISTIANx
    I want this. I want this so bad. And I hope they make a 1v1 format, not only because that's what I primarily play, but because I want to relish in the tears of Sheldon Menery and all the casual players that see him as their god.


    As much as Sheldon will rub me the wrong way at times, it's posts like these that annoy me as well. Even if you're just joking around, you're not being any better by stooping down to Sheldon's level and condescending casual players.

    As for the OP:

    I am just going to say this right now. I don't care if people quote me on it either. The day EDH becomes a sanctioned format just like Standard/Extended/Legacy/Vintage/etc. is the day the format dies.

    I know you and Hunter and the rest of the competitive EDH players are pushing so badly for sanctioned EDH. Unfortunately, it's a lose-lose situation all the way. The first problem that pops up would be "Is this for multiplayer?" If the answer is yes, then you might as well just make it a 2HG game, because you can sure as hell bet on people conspiring with each to split the prizes. If you're going to just collude together for prizes, then there is no point at playing the game in the first place.

    So what if we make it a 1v1 format? That's easily what you guys would want, but we would already have problems begin to surface. The obvious one is that of "What ban list to use?" Using a multiplayer ban list for a 1v1 game is obviously very illogical given that cards such as Kokusho don't even register close to being a threat in 1v1. Conversely, you have stuff like Sol Ring and Mana Crypt becoming broken when there are no politics to help balance out fast mana.

    Use the French and/or MTGS banlist? The DCI could care less about player-made ban lists. They would likely use a ban list of their own if they didn't want to use the multiplayer ban list, because the format would be officially sanctioned by Wizards. And if the DCI ever did make their own banlist for 1v1 EDH, it would be disastrous. Why do I say this? Simply because even with cards like Sol Ring and Mana Crypt banned for 1v1 EDH, it's still a totally broken and imbalanced format. The DCI would see this and ban all the tutors and engines that people have grown to love/hate/get used to in EDH. At that point, EDH is almost identical to traditional Highlander, just with the commander aspect of the game.

    No matter how you go about trying to sanction EDH, tons of people are going to be complaining, and the format will be even worse off than what it once was. Keep in mind, I do play competitive EDH, but I also like playing casually as well. I honestly enjoy both "sides", but many others do not. EDH is best left as it is.

    "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." Evelyn Hall's quote seems really appropriate for this context.
  • #55
    Quote from Surging Chaos
    The DCI would see this and ban all the tutors and engines that people have grown to love/hate/get used to in EDH.


    On the plus side....huge boost for monored!
    Mirri, Cat Warrior counts as a Cat Warrior.
  • #56
    Quote from Sir McHalls
    I don't like it, I don't have time testing a competitive deck and I don't want to shell out that much money on "staples" so I won't play it competitively and I don't understand those who want it to be sanctioned. Commander right now is a pretty cheap format if it becomes a sanctioned format, the staples will skyrocket (some even now cost more than it should).


    EDH Is leagues more expensive than standard, I'm not sure how it's cheap. Maybe if you proxy a lot, but that ruins the collection part of the fun of magic.

    I like this idea, and the jerk in me can't wait for the outlandish cries of the casual players who always clamor around with the claim that this is their format, like it can't be shared.
    My leg Frown imgur.com/a/Zs7UM#0

    Rules Advisor: 9/5/11

    Old, sparsely updated because of above: Trade with me!

    Weirdly, standard has been BAD since JTMS was banned, it hasn't been fun, nor healthy since.
  • #57
    I'd say a regular EDH deck without the original duals might cost $300. Not foil. Not sure, but that's the tops my Vig deck might be...WITH a Tropical Island.

    Standard decks always NEED the optimum manabases, and any blue deck will probably run Jace....which is $100 apiece.
    Mirri, Cat Warrior counts as a Cat Warrior.
  • #58
    Quote from Schnell
    EDH Is leagues more expensive than standard, I'm not sure how it's cheap. Maybe if you proxy a lot, but that ruins the collection part of the fun of magic.

    I'm not sure why you think this is true. Many EDH decks are under $100 and most are under $300. Additionally, it's not an investment that must be made again and again. Those people that tote around their $2000 dollar decks usually invest a lot into "pimping" it out.
  • #59
    The instant you put prizes on the line, the format is no longer casual.

    This is why limited formats are inherently NOT casual. They are intrinsically competitive. (It's also why Cube Drafting has popped up as a casual format.)
    http://kirblar024.wordpress.com - I has a blog now!

    Current post- Grand Prix KC Modern Postmortem (7/7/13)
  • #60
    A format cannot inherently be casual, only the players the play it and the manner in which they play can be described as casual. Sanctioning EDH through the DCI and creating a way to host EDH tournaments shouldn't change how you play EDH. Yes, some amazing staples will go up in price, boohoo, you can still make your own rules when you get together with your friends, can you not?
    My leg Frown imgur.com/a/Zs7UM#0

    Rules Advisor: 9/5/11

    Old, sparsely updated because of above: Trade with me!

    Weirdly, standard has been BAD since JTMS was banned, it hasn't been fun, nor healthy since.
  • #61
    Quote from Schnell
    Yes, some amazing staples will go up in price, boohoo, you can still make your own rules when you get together with your friends, can you not?


    Those are two different ideas, are they not?
    Mirri, Cat Warrior counts as a Cat Warrior.
  • #62
    Quote from Stardust
    I'm not sure why you think this is true. Many EDH decks are under $100 and most are under $300. Additionally, it's not an investment that must be made again and again. Those people that tote around their $2000 dollar decks usually invest a lot into "pimping" it out.


    I don't think it's fair to say a standard deck costs $700 and then say an EDH one costs $100-300.

    If you want an EDH deck that's as good as a $700 standard deck it costs more than standard. People say stuff like "Well EDH isn't competitive so you don't need a competitive deck". Ok, fine. I'll accept that as a true statement. It's true that it's pretty hard to win or even have fun with a $50 standard deck and in EDH it's definitely possible to at least have fun at that price level. However, it's still completely disingenuous to compare the price of a mediocre EDH deck to a Tier 1 standard deck and then use that data to say EDH is cheaper than standard. That is not comparing apples to apples, period.
  • #63
    Quote from Mugaaz
    I don't think it's fair to say a standard deck costs $700 and then say an EDH one costs $100-300.

    If you want an EDH deck that's as good as a $700 standard deck it costs more than standard. People say stuff like "Well EDH isn't competitive so you don't need a competitive deck". Ok, fine. I'll accept that as a true statement. It's true that it's pretty hard to win or even have fun with a $50 standard deck and in EDH it's definitely possible to at least have fun at that price level. However, it's still completely disingenuous to compare the price of a mediocre EDH deck to a Tier 1 standard deck and then use that data to say EDH is cheaper than standard. That is not comparing apples to apples, period.


    I think you'd have to respectfully disagree with you.
    Even if you wanted and EDH deck that's as good as a $700 Standard Deck- in it's own context- you'd still be likely come out much cheaper with EDH as it is.

    First, there's the factor of only needing 1 of each card. Just that will cut a good deal of the price... you don't need 4 of the most expensive card in the format- just one.

    Manabases can be pricey, but you run into quirks here, as a very highly powered decks can actually be monocolored- taking advantage of cheap cards like Extraplanar Lens, Gauntlet of Power, and other such effects.

    Sure, you'll gain more power in other ways if you branch off to multi-color, but then you're also much more likely to run yourself into non-basic land hate more frequently.

    Sol Ring is a key card in the format- and it's $10, usually.
    Any of the Swords? Just about $10.
    Solemn Simalcrum? About $5.


    These are HEAVILY played cards that can- and frequently do- see play in any deck.

    Go to this thread: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=239017

    Those list of some of the best, mostly heavily played cards of every color, based on the users opinions- So many of them are rather inexpensive- the one that jumps over $20-$30 is the anomoly, rather than the rule.

    If you go by "Tier 1" standards, I'd not be shocked to see most decks not jump beyond $300, unless they need a full compliment of dual lands, fetch lands and expensive non-basics to function.

    You can do a lot more when on a budget when your decklist doesn't start with 3-4x $80 mythic rare- and when so many of your key cards usually hover around $10, and there's bargains that are amazing in some decks that are bulk rares.
    Last edited by Sweeney: 2/4/2011 3:23:49 PM
  • #64
    Please don't make EDH competative, I mean *cough* Commander
  • #65
    Heya!

    My opinion...
    Firstly, Surging Chaos hit it dead on. It would totally kill the format.
    Think of the essence of EDH. It's fun, is it not? Sure, there are some crazy combo decks and whatnot, but it's fun to get together with 4-10 [whatever number you have] people and just go freaking crazy. [lol,twss]
    Anyway, what would EDH turn into when you turn it into a sanctioned format, full of Decks To Beat and such. It would completely flip the format over.
    One of the things that I love about EDH is that there's so much you can do in it. There are no netdecks. Build a deck around any Legendary Creature and go nuts. There aren't very many limitations. By sanctioning this format, it would ruin the fun and casual-ness that EDH is supposed to be. It's not supposed to be about "what's the best deck" or being cutthroat.
    -Sonic.
  • #66
    I think it would ruin the format.

    I started playing only a few months ago, but it has attracted everyone in my playgroup. It made all of my untradable cards have a home, and building an Commander EDH deck is a nice, slow process that can be done whenever you have extra money on hand. Plus, I like the opening-booster-pack-like feel of playing the deck.

    A sanctioned format with prizes would be stagnant with ideas and strategy, eventually with only the most successful decks being made. Maybe without prizes less so, but Commander EDH has been around a while, and some decks are already more powerful than others.

    What is fun about Commander EDH for everyone is that you are not pressured to make the "best deck". You get to do what you want or feel, and it is just accepted that way.

    Casual Decks:
    W Ethereal Guardians
    U ... ...
    B ... ...
    R Sync and Burn 2.0
    G Garden Wurms
    WU Dreamt of Stars
    WB ... ...
    UB Dirge of the Mind
    UR Weird Reaction
    BR ... ...
    BG ... ...
    RG Reckless Abandon
    RW Sworn to War
    GW ... ...
    GU Counter Intuitive
    WURG Infinite Defenders

    Commander EDH:
    UBVela the Night-Clad
    RWAurelia, the Warleader
    WBRTariel, Reckoner of Souls
    RGWMarath, Will of the Wild
    WUBRGCromat, the God Wurm
  • #67
    I think your all fretting over nothing. First off theres already competitive EDH (i know people who solely go to GP's and sweep through 4 mans all weekend) the format can be as casual or competitive as Legacy/Vintage itself. No matter what they do to the format those players at local shops who want to keep it casual will, this format has always been a player driven format and at the local level it will remain that way. On the other hand if you make it competitive it may raise some of the prices but its unlikely due to the fact that anyone who would play it as a competitive format probably already does and has all the staples. All im saying is theres no need to freak out about this 2HG became a sanctioned format but you still get more casual players playing EDH at the kitchen table or at local shops then you ever do in a GP setting.

    As far as the financial aspect of EDH goes... sweeney your half correct. Yes you can build a semi competitive EDH deck for less than 700 but frankly mine cost over a grand and frankly in order to be legit tier 1 it has too. I also have a 200~$ deck for fun games with my friends but if I go to a GP or am playing for some sort of prize I bust out the turn 2-3 win deck...and in order to have that win pattern you have to drop a significantly larger amount than on standard. Though you only need 1 or each card most of them cost 10+ as opposed to a few at 50-80 and the rest at .10-5.00. But most people dont drop that kind of cash on EDH so unless your looking to build legit tier 1 EDH (theres honetly about 3 decks that all run about the same 60 card shell and change a little on the storm engine otherwise) yes EDH is cheaper and so few people have the cards or the care to build tier 1...cause well frankly its no where near fun and isnt that what most people want from EDH?
    Quote from mastab3690 »
    yes turning of the tide that was a nice, props on breaking the deck
  • #68
    I think your all fretting over nothing. First off theres already competitive EDH (i know people who solely go to GP's and sweep through 4 mans all weekend) the format can be as casual or competitive as Legacy/Vintage itself. No matter what they do to the format those players at local shops who want to keep it casual will, this format has always been a player driven format and at the local level it will remain that way. On the other hand if you make it competitive it may raise some of the prices but its unlikely due to the fact that anyone who would play it as a competitive format probably already does and has all the staples. All im saying is theres no need to freak out about this 2HG became a sanctioned format but you still get more casual players playing EDH at the kitchen table or at local shops then you ever do in a GP setting.


    Competitive EDH does exist, but the problem is that it is horrendously broken because the ban list is not at all designed for competitive play. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that EDH is a completely broken format when you can play all the broken tutors, all the broken fast mana, and all the broken engines. I personally don't mind broken games too much considering I'm used to them (I played Marvel vs. Capcom 2 a lot), but not everybody enjoys games that are essentially over by turn 4-5.
  • #69
    I'd rather see OverExtended be sanctioned rather than EDH *ahem* 'Commander'. EDH will die when it's sanctioned with all this competitive nonsense. People play EDH to have fun and socialize, that's it. It's not about winning all the time.
  • #70
    Quote from MRdown2urth
    Expect prices to skyrocket.
    Get your Sol Rings, shock lands, and High Markets now!

    Like we need more netdecking or competitive formats.


    That's pretty much what I was thinking. As if some EDH staples aren't expensive enough already... Slant

    WU Near-Death Experience (Casual multiplayer)
    B Vintage Illegal Discard (When I want to be a jerk)
    GW Allies (Casual)
    URG Defenders (Crappy Standard)
    RWU Affinity (Modern)
  • #72
    Quote from Spawnman62
    Just imagine what could happen if FNM's could be EDH? That would be AMAZING. Seriously, after you take away all the cut-throat shenanigans that is the current standard FNMs what is left? Mostly people who show up to have a good time. What is EDH? Most players agree that it is a good time. Peas and carrots? Maybe.


    Actually, my lgs does this. It is not rated, be we still get prizes if we win and stuff.

    Quote from viperesque
    I know this was discussed a lot when the shake-up happened. I know it seems to run contrary to Sheldon's wishes. However, I have just heard from a reliable source that there is a good chance of Commander being sanctioned in the nearish future.

    So what does everyone think about that outcome? What implications does it have for the format?

    N.B. I am NOT saying this is confirmed. Hence the choice of subforum.


    I highly doubt this format will be sanctioned. And just who is your "reliable" source, hmm?
    Quote from badjuju
    I would never hate on someone for the deck they chose; that's what sideboards are for.
  • #73
    I don't get why people here are crying because it's going to ''kill multiplayer''. If you don't want to play competitively and want to stick with your bad uril deck, please do so. Noone here is forcing either you or your friends to buy new cards and start netdecking. If your play group likes the way things are right now, why would you change? Adding the option for tournaments and points is a good thing in my opinion. It is going to not only interest people that wasn't interested in the format earlier, but it's going to give the opportunity to stores to run sanctionned tournaments with a balanced banlist.

    Quote from Surging Chaos
    As much as Sheldon will rub me the wrong way at times, it's posts like these that annoy me as well. Even if you're just joking around, you're not being any better by stooping down to Sheldon's level and condescending casual players.

    As for the OP:

    I am just going to say this right now. I don't care if people quote me on it either. The day EDH becomes a sanctioned format just like Standard/Extended/Legacy/Vintage/etc. is the day the format dies.

    I know you and Hunter and the rest of the competitive EDH players are pushing so badly for sanctioned EDH. Unfortunately, it's a lose-lose situation all the way. The first problem that pops up would be "Is this for multiplayer?" If the answer is yes, then you might as well just make it a 2HG game, because you can sure as hell bet on people conspiring with each to split the prizes. If you're going to just collude together for prizes, then there is no point at playing the game in the first place.

    So what if we make it a 1v1 format? That's easily what you guys would want, but we would already have problems begin to surface. The obvious one is that of "What ban list to use?" Using a multiplayer ban list for a 1v1 game is obviously very illogical given that cards such as Kokusho don't even register close to being a threat in 1v1. Conversely, you have stuff like Sol Ring and Mana Crypt becoming broken when there are no politics to help balance out fast mana.

    Use the French and/or MTGS banlist? The DCI could care less about player-made ban lists. They would likely use a ban list of their own if they didn't want to use the multiplayer ban list, because the format would be officially sanctioned by Wizards. And if the DCI ever did make their own banlist for 1v1 EDH, it would be disastrous. Why do I say this? Simply because even with cards like Sol Ring and Mana Crypt banned for 1v1 EDH, it's still a totally broken and imbalanced format. The DCI would see this and ban all the tutors and engines that people have grown to love/hate/get used to in EDH. At that point, EDH is almost identical to traditional Highlander, just with the commander aspect of the game.

    No matter how you go about trying to sanction EDH, tons of people are going to be complaining, and the format will be even worse off than what it once was. Keep in mind, I do play competitive EDH, but I also like playing casually as well. I honestly enjoy both "sides", but many others do not. EDH is best left as it is.

    "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." Evelyn Hall's quote seems really appropriate for this context.


    who said it has to be a bad banlist? the mtgs / french banlist are still terrible as they are right now. they might even give us the opportunity to have a word with their choices as theyre taking over a format that doesnt belong to them.
    Last edited by What is a This: 2/6/2011 11:42:05 AM
    Once I made a misplay. I lost the game.

    Xian says:
    but now i dont have double vision,and stuff
    i looks just like a normal person

  • #74
    Quote from What is a This
    It is going to not only interest people that wasn't interested in the format earlier


    No one likes those people.
    Mirri, Cat Warrior counts as a Cat Warrior.
  • #75
    Quote from What is a This
    who said it has to be a bad banlist?


    Because of the past history with other Eternal formats. You think the DCI is going to tolerate a massive density of broken tutors and fast mana in the format? Those two elements are the reason for why turn 4-5 wins in EDH are easy to pull off.

    No one likes large ban lists. 5 color died because its ban list was several miles long. EDH will also die if the ban list becomes the traditional Highlander ban list.

    People like playing EDH not only because you can play cards that have been constructed rejects, but also because you can play with your Sol Rings and Mana Crypts and Demonic Tutors in a format that isn't Vintage. I know many people would be pissed beyond belief if not only Sol Ring/Mana Crypt were banned, but all of the other powerful cards they enjoy playing with get banned as well. Those people don't necessarily use tutors and fast mana to foster degeneracy, but rather to make their own pet decks run smoothly instead.
  • #76
    Quote from Surging Chaos
    Because of the past history with other Eternal formats. You think the DCI is going to tolerate a massive density of broken tutors and fast mana in the format? Those two elements are the reason for why turn 4-5 wins in EDH are easy to pull off.

    No one likes large ban lists. 5 color died because its ban list was several miles long. EDH will also die if the ban list becomes the traditional Highlander ban list.

    People like playing EDH not only because you can play cards that have been constructed rejects, but also because you can play with your Sol Rings and Mana Crypts and Demonic Tutors in a format that isn't Vintage. I know many people would be pissed beyond belief if not only Sol Ring/Mana Crypt were banned, but all of the other powerful cards they enjoy playing with get banned as well. Those people don't necessarily use tutors and fast mana to foster degeneracy, but rather to make their own pet decks run smoothly instead.


    While I fully agree with you, sometimes you have to sacrifice for the greater good. I mean as much as I love casting mana drain or demonic tutor, these cards are way too game changing to be allowed in a healthy format.
    Once I made a misplay. I lost the game.

    Xian says:
    but now i dont have double vision,and stuff
    i looks just like a normal person

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