Black Lotus as FNM foil?

Poll: Would it be bad or good for Magic if they made a Black Lotus FNM

Would it be bad or good for Magic if they made a Black Lotus FNM - Single Choice

  • Good 20%
  • Bad 80%
  • Neither 0%
  • #1
    This is more of a "Would this be a good idea?" and less of a "I think they are."

    There has been a lot of talk around the forums as of late about Wizards Reprint Policy being outdated. People saying which cards should not be on the list, which cards they should reprint, and how they should not care about collectors because they don't spend much money anyway.

    Well, this is the extreme extension of the reasoning that the reprint politically should not exist. If the reprint politically does not matter, then it does not matter if they do something like this....

    Or does it?
    Read 5ColorControl please.

    Talk to me off topic here
  • #2
    It would be a complete middle finger to any current owner of a Black Lotus. The price would drop by at least 90% within a very short time, and that is an awful lot of money. It's also completely unnecessary. We don't need or want people running around with them in casual decks.
    My sig broke.
  • #3
    WotC doesn't need an official policy to tell them not to reprint Lotus.
  • #4
    Quote from MajoraX
    WotC doesn't need an official policy to tell them not to reprint Lotus.
    Exactly. Good sense is more than enough to know that it shouldn't be reprinted.

    I dislike the reserved list exactly because of this. WotC doesn't need a list telling them what to reprint and what not to. They have brains.
    Quote from parinoid »
    I rolled 5 D6's and got 3 fours. They must have changed the odds of getting a 4!
  • #5
    Quote from MajoraX
    WotC doesn't need an official policy to tell them not to reprint Lotus.


    Lots of people have voiced that the whole Policy should be scrapped. If that is the case, and people should be NO Reprint Policy then why not do something like this? If Magic is just about people playing the game, and not about collecting, than WHY NOT?

    That's what I'm asking, clearly people that don't like the list, also don't like this idea, but why?
    (If you don't care about collectors and only current players, why not reward them? "They have brains" is really not an answer. I'm looking for reasons.)
    Read 5ColorControl please.

    Talk to me off topic here
  • #6
    Interesting question (or perhaps well-disguised troll. If so, good job.).

    There are 2 sides to this argument, and I'm not sure which I agree with more:

    1) The "pro" side: It would get more people involved in eternal formats, since the eternal cards would be accessible. It would also allow Wizards to hold sanctioned Vintage tournaments, since the 5- or 10-proxy policy would be dead. For some cards like Tarmogoyf, this could translate into Extended as well, making a newer player not have to wait 6 years to play anything but that awful, no-skill format we all know and hate known as Standard (honestly I hate Standard; I play it only because of Crypt Combo and FNM, in that order of priority). It might also put a damper on stupidly ridiculous prices inflated by Standard (see Baneslayer Angel, Abyssal Persecutor, Maelstrom Pulse).

    2) The "con" side: Collection prices would plummet. Collectors would stop collecting. People who currently play Eternal formats would get pissed off because the deck they spent $1000 on is now worth $200. Due to this, they would likely quit because they have no faith in the investment they put into the game.

    Personally, I'd like to play more Extended and Legacy, but don't have the card base for it, so I would like to see something like this happen for personal reasons. However, as far as health of the game goes, Wizards would lose a ton of money if they do this due to a large section of their player base losing confidence in them, and as such they might stop making a game that just lost like 30% of its subscribers overnight, so from a health-of-the-game standpoint, I think it's a bad idea.

    Interesting question, though.
    Old terminology reference:
    Play (noun): Battlefield
    Play (verb): Cast/Play
    RFG: Exile
    CIP: Enters the Battlefield
    Land reference:
    Dual land: Taiga
    Fetchland: Arid Mesa
    Shockland: Watery Grave
    M10 Dual: Glacial Fortress
    Don't be rude:
    Quote from shadowboy
    Quote from Ertai87 »
    No Allies or Landfall in RoE, no Clash or Evoke in Shadowmoor...


    WATWATWATWAT?
    You realize this is completely different, right?
    First, Shadowmoor/Eventide are A DIFFERENT BLOCK. DERP.

    There will be DFCs in this set.
  • #7
    The main reason I feel this is bad is that Black Lotus has the mystique surrounding it about being this rare, powerful, amazing card that newer players hear about. Everyone knows Black Lotus, but if everyone has one then it really isn't important, it just becomes another great card, but loses that old mystery about it.
    MTG Rules Advisor
    I currently play only two formats, what I play in them is:
    Legacy: Domain Zoo, RGW Zoo, Merfolk, Solidarity, Mono Black Aggro
    EDH: Kagemaro, First to Suffer
  • #8
    Quote from Taylor
    If Magic is just about people playing the game, and not about collecting, than WHY NOT?
    [/I]

    Because building a collection is part of playing the game.
  • #9
    If that is the case, and people should be NO Reprint Policy then why not do something like this? If Magic is just about people playing the game, and not about collecting, than WHY NOT?
    Who said that Magic is not about collecting? It's a CCG. Collecting is a natural aspect of the game.

    Being against the reserved list doesn't mean that you're against collecting. Being against the reserved list means that you believe that WotC doesn't need a strict list telling them what is fine to reprint and what is not. The pure collecting aspect should not get in the way of set design. For example, if Phyrexian Negator is a perfect fit for, say, New Phyrexia, than it should be able to be printed there.

    Cards like the P9 and many other extremely valuable old cards will never be a perfect fit for any modern set anyway.

    Take Force of Will as an example. It is an Uncommon, yet it quite expensive due to its age and usefulness. It is not in the reserved list. Yet it was never reprinted, and I wouldn't expect to see it reprinted anytime in the next decade.
    Last edited by Ellye: 2/5/2010 2:29:04 PM
    Quote from parinoid »
    I rolled 5 D6's and got 3 fours. They must have changed the odds of getting a 4!
  • #10
    ...and old price-tag.

    I wouldn't mind the newer versions. The rarer older versions will still be worth something (see brids of paradise). But reprints of the power 9 will allow more people to enter sanctioned Vintage, which is an awesome format, as is legacy. I'm all for not having to pay $100s to $1000s of dollars for cards.

    Then again, is it the value of the cards, that keeps the value in the game? I'm not sure...but I still love this game!


    Thanks Zaphod
  • #11
    Quote from Ertai87
    Interesting question, though.

    Yeah, I thought so. I like the reprint policy myself, but it seemed to me many people on the forums did not like it at all. Many people were saying it should not be reworked, but done away with.

    If they feel that way, based on THAT logic, I don't see why this is a bad idea. I, personally, feel it is, but someone that just wants to scrap the list, and feels Wizards should not care about collectors (not saying 'rework' the list, but 'remove') it seems like a good idea.
    It will allow more people to play in more formats.
    Quote from zkornz
    Who said that Magic is not about collecting? It's a CCG. Collecting is a natural aspect of the game.
    I have seen some people on the forums express the opinion that Wizards should not care about collectors, only players.
    Read 5ColorControl please.

    Talk to me off topic here
  • #12
    Quote from Taylor
    Lots of people have voiced that the whole Policy should be scrapped. If that is the case, and people should be NO Reprint Policy then why not do something like this? If Magic is just about people playing the game, and not about collecting, than WHY NOT?

    That's what I'm asking, clearly people that don't like the list, also don't like this idea, but why? (If you don't care about collectors and only current players, why not reword them? "They have brains" is really not an answer. I'm looking for reasons.)


    That's not the point of the "no Reserved List" position. The point is manyfold:

    1) Many cards on the list don't need to be there. How awesome would it have been to be able to have Sliver Queen in Premium Deck Slivers? Personally, I own 1 Sliver Queen (used to own 2; don't know where the second went...). I know it's worth about $25. I picked it up back when Stronghold was in print. Honestly, I couldn't care less if it dropped from $25 to $5. Nobody plays it in tournaments, and it would be super-cool and awesome to get a shiny one. It wouldn't affect any tournament format, and it's an awesome casual card. Many cards on the Reserved List are like this.

    2) Wizards self-manages the Reserved List. There's nothing to stop them from changing it any time they like. All it is is a public agreement that they can change at any time. If this is true, why don't they just not have it? What's the point?

    3) I believe, but am not 100% sure, that the Reserved List encompasses all reprinting, not only mass-reprinting. This means, for example, we won't see Black Lotus in FTV: Relics, which, even if it happened, likely wouldn't change the value of original Lotuses (look at Berserk if you doubt me). It would, however, allow particularly dedicated Vintage players and collectors to own an awesome-looking Lotus. I believe this also holds true for prizes. Instead of getting a bunch of money for winning a PT, how about a nice, shiny Black Lotus, limited edition foil, legal in tournaments, etc? How much do you think that would be worth? Wizards wouldn't lose any money from it, and it could be worth hundreds of thousands to the person who wins it. It would save Wizards tons of money, but they can't do it because of the Reserved List.

    These are just a few of the reasons the Reserved List is stupid.
    Old terminology reference:
    Play (noun): Battlefield
    Play (verb): Cast/Play
    RFG: Exile
    CIP: Enters the Battlefield
    Land reference:
    Dual land: Taiga
    Fetchland: Arid Mesa
    Shockland: Watery Grave
    M10 Dual: Glacial Fortress
    Don't be rude:
    Quote from shadowboy
    Quote from Ertai87 »
    No Allies or Landfall in RoE, no Clash or Evoke in Shadowmoor...


    WATWATWATWAT?
    You realize this is completely different, right?
    First, Shadowmoor/Eventide are A DIFFERENT BLOCK. DERP.

    There will be DFCs in this set.
  • #13
    Quote from Taylor
    Lots of people have voiced that the whole Policy should be scrapped. If that is the case, and people should be NO Reprint Policy then why not do something like this? If Magic is just about people playing the game, and not about collecting, than WHY NOT?


    The same reason Wizards won't reprint Goyf in a Standard legal set, because its a BAD IDEA.

    For the love of God, I wish people would understand that getting rid of the Reserve List=/= opening a floodgate of superpowered reprints. If you think the P9 or other expensive power cards will be reprinted if the list goes, then you just live in a fantasy land full of magical ponies and chocolate.

    Thanks to ChibiSwan at The Ugly Swan
    Thanks to Numotflame96 for the Avatar
  • #14
    I have seen some people on the forums express the opinion that Wizards should not care about collectors, only players.
    The thing, is they probably meant that WotC shouldn't care about people that only collect (and I can't say that I fully agree with them).
    Magic is a game, but in order to play it, you need to collect it. Basically every player is a collector to some extent.
    Quote from parinoid »
    I rolled 5 D6's and got 3 fours. They must have changed the odds of getting a 4!
  • #15
    Quote from viperesque
    It would be a complete middle finger to any current owner of a Black Lotus. The price would drop by at least 90% within a very short time, and that is an awful lot of money. It's also completely unnecessary. We don't need or want people running around with them in casual decks.


    WotC cares about the secondary market value of current cards because it increases sales for them. For example; BSA costs $46875341324 and because of that, people buy more M10 boxes so that they can get the chance of cracking a BSA. This is important to them.

    However, they don't give a crap about the secondary market value of cards like Black Lotus or Moxes simply because it probably only effects their sales marginally, if at all. That's why the last few GP cards were Chrome Mox and Jitte. Because they're going to be rotating out of Extended soon, the sales per box for those particular boxes have dropped dramatically (playing Extended, if you want a Chrome Mox, you buy the single, that's the way it's been for a year or two at least).


    Thanks to DarkNightCavalier


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  • #16
    Yeah this is not the right way to frame this discussion.
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