Maybe not, but it should.
Interblock synergy ftw.
Cards having no synergy in their surrounding blocks 3 months after they're printed ftl.
I'd agree that interblock synergy should be a factor, but lateley it hasn't been.
Alara didn't't have any representatives of half the lorwyn tribes (not asking for a lot, but a few in in the same numbers as time spiral block would have made sense.)
Also I've heard some say that having hybrid next to a gold block, with all the mana fixing makes hybid a little too easy...that's a bit harder to back up.
Well, it looks like we're getting at least one vampire in Zendikar.
There was a thread about merfolk coming back where I've said the same thing; They would not waste a slot making a new merfolk lord with such minimal support for the tribe in M10 if they do not plan on printing any new ones before M11. The same can be said for vampires.
M10 was not designed in a vacuum. It's true they divorced themselves from some of the "baggage" of the game's history and tried to just go back to an Alpha/top down feel, but there are people who worked on both sets.
The tribes for each color are being tweaked and redefined. M10 shows a fundamental change to vampires, expanding the tribe with lower cost and rarity. I'd say this is just as long term of a change as when we started seeing Sphinxes show up in Ravnica. In terms of flavor, it seems fish tailed merfolk may be out (I don't really like that. Quick, give Inkwell Leviathan some legs too!).
I would not be quick to say that there aren't some seeds in M10 that relate to Zendikar. Rules changed for M10, but there are flavor and philosophical changes as well. I'm sure we won't get a Thopter Foundry type card in ZEN, so why should tribal support not be influenced?
I'm still a little fuzzy on the time frame and how much overlap there was between M10 and ZEN (don't forget there are 2 more sets), but I do know that creature types/classes are one those little tweaks that they do at the end so adding tribal some support would not be a problem.
There is also M10's Vampires. Why print Vampire Nocturnus (it is even a Promo) with only 2 other Vampires? Why make a Vampire Lord to a tribe that has been mostly been Flying fatties?
I think that is enough ground to speculate.
Except that M10 was designed in a vacuum. No card as obviously top-down as Vampire Nocturnus can have been made with Zendikar in mind. That doesn't mean there won't be vampires in ZEN. It just means Vampire Nocturnus can't be counted as evidence there will be.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I am confident that if anyone actually
penetrates our facades, even the most
perceptive would still be fundamentally
unprepared for the truth of House Dimir."
It really doesn't make much sense to make pointless lords for no reason. The printing of Nocturnus doesn't make Zendikar a tribal block by any means, but its silly to think there won't be any vampires in Zendikar, especially after seeing this fellow.
I'm sure I'm not the only one who read this, but:
"... the Vampire creature type is on the rise as a well-supported tribe, and the game play of this card—killing other creatures and deriving temporary strength from them—is pretty right-on for the flavor of a vampire."
From http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/stf/47
I'm pretty pumped about this... vampires definitely fit their new fantasy theme they are shooting for.
It really doesn't make much sense to make pointless lords for no reason. The printing of Nocturnus doesn't make Zendikar a tribal block by any means, but its silly to think there won't be any vampires in Zendikar, especially after seeing this fellow.
Again, I'm not saying there WON'T be more vampires in the future (or even in Zendikar.) All I'm saying is you can't count Vampire Nocturnus as EVIDENCE there will be. Lords of random creature types do exist, and M10 was allegedly designed in a vacuum. That means regardless of how many vampires are or arn't in Zendikar, they would have made Vampire Nocturnus anyway.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I am confident that if anyone actually
penetrates our facades, even the most
perceptive would still be fundamentally
unprepared for the truth of House Dimir."
Again, I'm not saying there WON'T be more vampires in the future (or even in Zendikar.) All I'm saying is you can't count Vampire Nocturnus as EVIDENCE there will be. Lords of random creature types do exist, and M10 was allegedly designed in a vacuum. That means regardless of how many vampires are or arn't in Zendikar, they would have made Vampire Nocturnus anyway.
All your examples except Chainer, Reaper King, Sachi, and Seshiro are good.
Chainer - He affects the creatures he pulls from the grave.
Reaper King - In a block overrun with scarecrows.
Sachi - In a block overrun with snakes, many of which were shamans.
Seshiro - In a block overrun with snakes.
Again, I'm not saying there WON'T be more vampires in the future (or even in Zendikar.) All I'm saying is you can't count Vampire Nocturnus as EVIDENCE there will be. Lords of random creature types do exist, and M10 was allegedly designed in a vacuum. That means regardless of how many vampires are or arn't in Zendikar, they would have made Vampire Nocturnus anyway.
All your examples except Chainer, Reaper King, Sachi, and Seshiro are good.
Chainer - He affects the creatures he pulls from the grave.
Reaper King - In a block overrun with scarecrows.
Sachi - In a block overrun with snakes, many of which were shamans.
Seshiro - In a block overrun with snakes.
... And Steamflogger Boss. He's futureshifted, so we're just not there yet. But when he does come out, assembling contraptions is going to be absolutely insane, and he'll jump from $.50 to $20 immediately. You'll see.;)
... And Steamflogger Boss. He's futureshifted, so we're just not there yet. But when he does come out, assembling contraptions is going to be absolutely insane, and he'll jump from $.50 to $20 immediately. You'll see.;)
I'll wait till then to say anything about him having a relevant lord-ness =P
Except that M10 was designed in a vacuum. No card as obviously top-down as Vampire Nocturnus can have been made with Zendikar in mind. That doesn't mean there won't be vampires in ZEN. It just means Vampire Nocturnus can't be counted as evidence there will be.
I sincerely doubt M10 was made in an entire vacuum. The M10 team was composed of people who probably where involved with Zendikar's development, directly or indirectly. They can't really wipe their minds entirely. Plus...
"... the Vampire creature type is on the rise as a well-supported tribe, and the game play of this card—killing other creatures and deriving temporary strength from them—is pretty right-on for the flavor of a vampire." http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/stf/47
All your examples except Chainer, Reaper King, Sachi, and Seshiro are good.
Chainer - He affects the creatures he pulls from the grave.
Reaper King - In a block overrun with scarecrows.
Sachi - In a block overrun with snakes, many of which were shamans.
Seshiro - In a block overrun with snakes.
I never implied any of them were bad. Vampire Nocturnus is pretty good too if you ask me. The point I was trying to make was just because its an under-represented creature type, that doesn't necessarily mean there plan to print a lot more of them in the near future.
... And Steamflogger Boss. He's futureshifted, so we're just not there yet. But when he does come out, assembling contraptions is going to be absolutely insane, and he'll jump from $.50 to $20 immediately. You'll see.;)
Do I really need to explain the futureshifted thing AGAIN? They're not all meant to be direct reprints. They were hints at previously un-explored design space that they MIGHT do eventually. I'm also pretty sure Wizards explicitly stated that Steamflogger Boss was a joke, but I can't back that up with a source. Either way, there's even less reason to believe he's coming back than there is to believe Zendikar is going to be a vampire-heavy block.
I sincerely doubt M10 was made in an entire vacuum. The M10 team was composed of people who probably where involved with Zendikar's development, directly or indirectly. They can't really wipe their minds entirely.
It was designed in a vacuum. WotC has explicitly said so. It was not DEVELOPED in a vacuum, but design was done with no regard to surrounding sets, blocks, metagames, whatever.
now, for the millionth time: I am NOT saying there won't be vampires in Zendikar. I'm not saying there won't be a lot of vampires in Zendikar. I'm not even saying vampires won't be a supported TRIBE in Zendikar. What I am saying is that IF there are vampires in Zendikar (which, once again, I am not suggesting there won't be) Vampire Nocturnus is not evidence towards it.
"... the Vampire creature type is on the rise as a well-supported tribe, and the game play of this card—killing other creatures and deriving temporary strength from them—is pretty right-on for the flavor of a vampire." http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/stf/47
THIS, on the other hand, IS evidence that we may be seeing more vampires and/or vampire tribal support in the near future, quite possibly in Zendikar.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I am confident that if anyone actually
penetrates our facades, even the most
perceptive would still be fundamentally
unprepared for the truth of House Dimir."
The set may not be tribal themed, however I wouldn't be surprised to see Merfolk, Zombies, and Zombie Merfolk. Yeah, I said it.
Perhaps there will also be Vampire Elves and Ninja Pirates. Wait, not the last one.
No, no, I think you're onto something. Maro said Zendikar's theme wouldn't be pirates or robots or dinosaurs... But he didn't say anything about robotic dinosaur pirates!!! Oh, and since there was a vampire lord in the recent core set, they MUST have been lying about it being designed in a vaccum, and that obviously top-down card must have meant there will be vampires too! That's it! Zedikar is the Vampiric robot dinosaur pirate tribal block!
And they said we didn't have enough to base our speculation on yet. HA! let's see them try to disprove THIS flawless logic!
[/sarcasm]
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I am confident that if anyone actually
penetrates our facades, even the most
perceptive would still be fundamentally
unprepared for the truth of House Dimir."
Again, my point is that underrepresented =/= plans to make more soon.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I am confident that if anyone actually
penetrates our facades, even the most
perceptive would still be fundamentally
unprepared for the truth of House Dimir."
Again, I'm not saying there WON'T be more vampires in the future (or even in Zendikar.) All I'm saying is you can't count Vampire Nocturnus as EVIDENCE there will be. Lords of random creature types do exist, and M10 was allegedly designed in a vacuum. That means regardless of how many vampires are or arn't in Zendikar, they would have made Vampire Nocturnus anyway.
Well for one thing, I would like to think that wotc thinks through some of these things a bit better know than they did during the times of Legends, lets say, to where things should be more thought out and done for a reason (aside from Steamflogger perhaps). Nothing necessarily points to certainty, besides tonights article people have quoted, but even that aside - Nocturnus, m10s driven vampire theme, and the new art which is obviously depicting a vampire is extremely large evidence to indicate vampires being included in Zendikar. Despite m10 being created in a vacuum, I don't think this necessarily means that Zendikar was not taken into any consideration when designing it. There is little reason for wotc to strive for anything but perfection and creating something without any knowledge of the next block would be a bit more mystery than they would prefer. m10 and Zendikar are indeed made to not rely on each other; however, this does not mean that considerations were not made for card choice in regards to the future card pool.
Why do I even bother explaining myself if no one is going to listen?
I WAS ONLY SAYING JUST BECAUSE THERE'S A LORD FOR VAMPIRES AND NOT TOO MANY OTHER VAMPIRES IN STANDARD IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN THEY PLAN TO MAKE MORE SOON.
(caps lock rulz!:rolleyes:)
Maybe I should make myself a little more clear. I do think there is plenty of evidence to merit speculation of vampires in Zendikar. I do not think Vampire Nocturnus is among that evidence.
Now watch. In a few posts, someone is going to take something I said out of context AGAIN, and I'm going to get even more frustrated... *sigh*
Reading is tech, guys. Would it kill you to take the time to UNDERSTAND my arguments before you make counter arguments to them? Otherwise we don't really get anywhere. I'm all for debating but pointless bickering is not fun.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I am confident that if anyone actually
penetrates our facades, even the most
perceptive would still be fundamentally
unprepared for the truth of House Dimir."
Gee, I love when people don't listen to everything I say.
[/sarcasm]
I never implied any of them were bad. Vampire Nocturnus is pretty good too if you ask me. The point I was trying to make was just because its an under-represented creature type, that doesn't necessarily mean there plan to print a lot more of them in the near future.
Do I really need to explain the futureshifted thing AGAIN? They're not all meant to be direct reprints. They were hints at previously un-explored design space that they MIGHT do eventually. I'm also pretty sure Wizards explicitly stated that Steamflogger Boss was a joke, but I can't back that up with a source. Either way, there's even less reason to believe he's coming back than there is to believe Zendikar is going to be a vampire-heavy block.
Now watch. In a few posts, someone is going to take something I said out of context AGAIN, and I'm going to get even more frustrated... *sigh*
Reading is tech, guys. Would it kill you to take the time to UNDERSTAND my arguments before you make counter arguments to them? Otherwise we don't really get anywhere. I'm all for debating but pointless bickering is not fun.
I shouldn't have to point out the irony here, but, really... did you at all read the guys you quoted? Good as in good examples, not good cards, is obviously what ol' boy meant. Furthermore, yes, WOTC did explicitly state that SB was a joke card (if I remember correctly). However, can you not see that the other ol' boy was making a joke, himself?
Anyway, Sorin looks to be in plate armor, fairly ornate, and wearing a leather duster over it. He doesn't seem to overflow with magical power (like in the art for most of the walkers we have). This doesn't discount his walkertude, persay, but makes me inclined to think we'll see him as a legend.
I shouldn't have to point out the irony here, but, really... did you at all read the guys you quoted? Good as in good examples, not good cards, is obviously what ol' boy meant. Furthermore, yes, WOTC did explicitly state that SB was a joke card (if I remember correctly). However, can you not see that the other ol' boy was making a joke, himself?
See, but at least you were paying close enough attention to notice my mistakes, and for that I thank you. And thank you also for pointing them out to me. I didn't think it was obvious that ol' boy meant good examples, and I'm still not convinced he did, but I'd believe it. And if that was what he meant, I apologize for misunderstanding. As for the steamflogger boss thing... Yeah, I should have realized he was joking.
This is what a discussion should look like. DarkwaterElemental, I have just gained a great deal of respect for you. I was just getting annoyed that I had to repeat myself so much, and I'm sorry to everyone for flying off the handle.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I am confident that if anyone actually
penetrates our facades, even the most
perceptive would still be fundamentally
unprepared for the truth of House Dimir."
THERE'S...TOO MANY...VAMPIRES IN STANDARD...THEY PLAN TO MAKE MORE SOON
What? There are only five of them!!
Maybe I...make...a little more...evidence...of vampires in Zendikar.
Next time you're planning to make fake cards, maybe you shouldn't think out loud in a forum where everyone can see it!! You'll never fool us now!!!
Now watch. In a few posts, someone is going to take something I said out of context AGAIN, and I'm going to get even more frustrated... *sigh*
On an internet forum? Don't be ridiculous. That never happens.
Reading...Would...kill you...I'm all for... pointless bickering.
If you say so.
/lame joke
Seriously, though, I do think that Vampire Nocturnus is a good reason to suspect we'll see more vampires in the next year. M10 is only going to be around in Standard for one year, so if they weren't going to print some support for this card, they probably would have just saved it for M11 or put it into a block with lots of vampires.
And by the way, most of the examples you cited earlier came from blocks in which there were significant numbers of the creature type they supported, although not necessarily an all-out tribal theme.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Horseshoe Hermit »
Karma doesn't exist. You can't depend on it. If you count on it for justice or catharsis, you will find that you have placed your emotions on very unstable ground; and you will either repeat your disappointment in society over and over, or you will engage in a persistent delusion to protect yourself from that feeling.
And by the way, most of the examples you cited earlier came from blocks in which there were significant numbers of the creature type they supported, although not necessarily an all-out tribal theme.
This.
The list of "Lords" that Devil's Advocate posted is mostly based off of creatures that interacted with their "Tribe" at a decent level within the confines of the Block/Set they were printed in. The only one that fails that test is Greatbow Doyen, since there weren't tons of Archers printed in Lorwyn Block, but Morningtide featured a few "Class Lords" at Rare (Scarblade Elite, Gilt-Leaf Archdruid) that work for more unspported tribes, since the advent of the Changeling mechanic made these cards slightly more powerful as well as made them reasonably interesting cards at the casual level. So, the list is not particularly strong evidence that they will discontinue making Vampires, it simply points out that often they will make a Tribal Lord of some form or another that is relevant to a tribe self-contained by a single Set or Block. The argument as to whether or not this applies to Vampire Nocturnus is pertinent, but I would think that having direct confirmation that Vampires will become a more prevalent Black tribe (as stated by Doug Beyer) gives better indication that there may be Vampires in Zendikar than the evidence that many Tribal Lords exist in a vacuum gives indication there will not be any at all.
The revelation of a piece of product that features a creature that certainly looks as a newly concepted Vampire, with the possibility that the creature is also a Planeswalker, lends even more credence to the idea that we will see more Vampires within the next year.
If not just to make homage to one of the most classic Vampiric spells of all time, they could do something like this:
Nightsky Prophet 3BB
When Nightsky Prophet comes into play lose 2 life. Search your library for a card and put that card on top of your library.
4/4
Repeatable tutor effects, especially on a creature, would be strong. But the life loss, as well as the fact that multiples of this card would not work particurlarly well in conjunction with one another, would likely balance it out. Also, this would be pretty awesome with Vampire Nocturnus.
Urza said he recieved a pm telling him all the lords will be supported in zendikar and i'd believe anything he'd tell me if it was magic the gathering related so....
my vote is for vampires appearing in m10 (if our Sorin PW isn't a PW he'll be a vampire)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Maybe not, but it should.
Interblock synergy ftw.
Cards having no synergy in their surrounding blocks 3 months after they're printed ftl.
I'd agree that interblock synergy should be a factor, but lateley it hasn't been.
Alara didn't't have any representatives of half the lorwyn tribes (not asking for a lot, but a few in in the same numbers as time spiral block would have made sense.)
Also I've heard some say that having hybrid next to a gold block, with all the mana fixing makes hybid a little too easy...that's a bit harder to back up.
There was a thread about merfolk coming back where I've said the same thing; They would not waste a slot making a new merfolk lord with such minimal support for the tribe in M10 if they do not plan on printing any new ones before M11. The same can be said for vampires.
M10 was not designed in a vacuum. It's true they divorced themselves from some of the "baggage" of the game's history and tried to just go back to an Alpha/top down feel, but there are people who worked on both sets.
The tribes for each color are being tweaked and redefined. M10 shows a fundamental change to vampires, expanding the tribe with lower cost and rarity. I'd say this is just as long term of a change as when we started seeing Sphinxes show up in Ravnica. In terms of flavor, it seems fish tailed merfolk may be out (I don't really like that. Quick, give Inkwell Leviathan some legs too!).
I would not be quick to say that there aren't some seeds in M10 that relate to Zendikar. Rules changed for M10, but there are flavor and philosophical changes as well. I'm sure we won't get a Thopter Foundry type card in ZEN, so why should tribal support not be influenced?
I'm still a little fuzzy on the time frame and how much overlap there was between M10 and ZEN (don't forget there are 2 more sets), but I do know that creature types/classes are one those little tweaks that they do at the end so adding tribal some support would not be a problem.
Much better.
Perhaps there will also be Vampire Elves and Ninja Pirates. Wait, not the last one.
My art blog
Claims:
The kicker variant in WWK will be "Kicker without a kicked effect." - proven wrong Jan 2010 : 2 wrongs
Decks:
:symu::symb: Bloodchief Ascension - Modern
:symb::symr: Rakdos, the Defiler - EDH
:symu::symb::symw: Sharuum the Hegemon - EDH
:symw::symu::symb: Zur the Enchanter - EDH
http://quazen.com/games/card-games/how-i-followed-my-guts-and-got-an-invite-to-worlds-bolivian-nationals-report-2nd/
also featured at the Starkinton Post
http://www.thestarkingtonpost.com/articles/-/Bolivia_Nationals_2nd
Except that M10 was designed in a vacuum. No card as obviously top-down as Vampire Nocturnus can have been made with Zendikar in mind. That doesn't mean there won't be vampires in ZEN. It just means Vampire Nocturnus can't be counted as evidence there will be.
"I am confident that if anyone actually
penetrates our facades, even the most
perceptive would still be fundamentally
unprepared for the truth of House Dimir."
Sale/Buy List!!!
Trade Thread---V
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=89415 - Down atm
Sell/Buy List--V
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=7460848#post7460848
Twitter!!
http://twitter.com/AaronRWilburn
"... the Vampire creature type is on the rise as a well-supported tribe, and the game play of this card—killing other creatures and deriving temporary strength from them—is pretty right-on for the flavor of a vampire."
From http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/stf/47
I'm pretty pumped about this... vampires definitely fit their new fantasy theme they are shooting for.
I'd like you to meet my good friends:
and Zuberi, Golden Feather
Again, I'm not saying there WON'T be more vampires in the future (or even in Zendikar.) All I'm saying is you can't count Vampire Nocturnus as EVIDENCE there will be. Lords of random creature types do exist, and M10 was allegedly designed in a vacuum. That means regardless of how many vampires are or arn't in Zendikar, they would have made Vampire Nocturnus anyway.
"I am confident that if anyone actually
penetrates our facades, even the most
perceptive would still be fundamentally
unprepared for the truth of House Dimir."
All your examples except Chainer, Reaper King, Sachi, and Seshiro are good.
Chainer - He affects the creatures he pulls from the grave.
Reaper King - In a block overrun with scarecrows.
Sachi - In a block overrun with snakes, many of which were shamans.
Seshiro - In a block overrun with snakes.
... And Steamflogger Boss. He's futureshifted, so we're just not there yet. But when he does come out, assembling contraptions is going to be absolutely insane, and he'll jump from $.50 to $20 immediately. You'll see.;)
GX Tron XG
UR Phoenix RU
GG Freyalise High Tide GG
UR Parun Counterspells RU
BB Yawgmoth Token Storm BB
WB Pestilence BW
I'll wait till then to say anything about him having a relevant lord-ness =P
I sincerely doubt M10 was made in an entire vacuum. The M10 team was composed of people who probably where involved with Zendikar's development, directly or indirectly. They can't really wipe their minds entirely. Plus...
"... the Vampire creature type is on the rise as a well-supported tribe, and the game play of this card—killing other creatures and deriving temporary strength from them—is pretty right-on for the flavor of a vampire."
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/stf/47
~RW Soldiers / RW Aggro (with a side of Giants) [T2]~
[/sarcasm]
I never implied any of them were bad. Vampire Nocturnus is pretty good too if you ask me. The point I was trying to make was just because its an under-represented creature type, that doesn't necessarily mean there plan to print a lot more of them in the near future.
Do I really need to explain the futureshifted thing AGAIN? They're not all meant to be direct reprints. They were hints at previously un-explored design space that they MIGHT do eventually. I'm also pretty sure Wizards explicitly stated that Steamflogger Boss was a joke, but I can't back that up with a source. Either way, there's even less reason to believe he's coming back than there is to believe Zendikar is going to be a vampire-heavy block.
Back on topic...
It was designed in a vacuum. WotC has explicitly said so. It was not DEVELOPED in a vacuum, but design was done with no regard to surrounding sets, blocks, metagames, whatever.
now, for the millionth time: I am NOT saying there won't be vampires in Zendikar. I'm not saying there won't be a lot of vampires in Zendikar. I'm not even saying vampires won't be a supported TRIBE in Zendikar. What I am saying is that IF there are vampires in Zendikar (which, once again, I am not suggesting there won't be) Vampire Nocturnus is not evidence towards it.
Plus...
THIS, on the other hand, IS evidence that we may be seeing more vampires and/or vampire tribal support in the near future, quite possibly in Zendikar.
"I am confident that if anyone actually
penetrates our facades, even the most
perceptive would still be fundamentally
unprepared for the truth of House Dimir."
No, no, I think you're onto something. Maro said Zendikar's theme wouldn't be pirates or robots or dinosaurs... But he didn't say anything about robotic dinosaur pirates!!! Oh, and since there was a vampire lord in the recent core set, they MUST have been lying about it being designed in a vaccum, and that obviously top-down card must have meant there will be vampires too! That's it! Zedikar is the Vampiric robot dinosaur pirate tribal block!
And they said we didn't have enough to base our speculation on yet. HA! let's see them try to disprove THIS flawless logic!
[/sarcasm]
"I am confident that if anyone actually
penetrates our facades, even the most
perceptive would still be fundamentally
unprepared for the truth of House Dimir."
"I am confident that if anyone actually
penetrates our facades, even the most
perceptive would still be fundamentally
unprepared for the truth of House Dimir."
Well for one thing, I would like to think that wotc thinks through some of these things a bit better know than they did during the times of Legends, lets say, to where things should be more thought out and done for a reason (aside from Steamflogger perhaps). Nothing necessarily points to certainty, besides tonights article people have quoted, but even that aside - Nocturnus, m10s driven vampire theme, and the new art which is obviously depicting a vampire is extremely large evidence to indicate vampires being included in Zendikar. Despite m10 being created in a vacuum, I don't think this necessarily means that Zendikar was not taken into any consideration when designing it. There is little reason for wotc to strive for anything but perfection and creating something without any knowledge of the next block would be a bit more mystery than they would prefer. m10 and Zendikar are indeed made to not rely on each other; however, this does not mean that considerations were not made for card choice in regards to the future card pool.
Sale/Buy List!!!
Trade Thread---V
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=89415 - Down atm
Sell/Buy List--V
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=7460848#post7460848
Twitter!!
http://twitter.com/AaronRWilburn
Why do I even bother explaining myself if no one is going to listen?
I WAS ONLY SAYING JUST BECAUSE THERE'S A LORD FOR VAMPIRES AND NOT TOO MANY OTHER VAMPIRES IN STANDARD IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN THEY PLAN TO MAKE MORE SOON.
(caps lock rulz!:rolleyes:)
Maybe I should make myself a little more clear. I do think there is plenty of evidence to merit speculation of vampires in Zendikar. I do not think Vampire Nocturnus is among that evidence.
Now watch. In a few posts, someone is going to take something I said out of context AGAIN, and I'm going to get even more frustrated... *sigh*
Reading is tech, guys. Would it kill you to take the time to UNDERSTAND my arguments before you make counter arguments to them? Otherwise we don't really get anywhere. I'm all for debating but pointless bickering is not fun.
"I am confident that if anyone actually
penetrates our facades, even the most
perceptive would still be fundamentally
unprepared for the truth of House Dimir."
I shouldn't have to point out the irony here, but, really... did you at all read the guys you quoted? Good as in good examples, not good cards, is obviously what ol' boy meant. Furthermore, yes, WOTC did explicitly state that SB was a joke card (if I remember correctly). However, can you not see that the other ol' boy was making a joke, himself?
Anyway, Sorin looks to be in plate armor, fairly ornate, and wearing a leather duster over it. He doesn't seem to overflow with magical power (like in the art for most of the walkers we have). This doesn't discount his walkertude, persay, but makes me inclined to think we'll see him as a legend.
This is a Shivan Ampersand
See, but at least you were paying close enough attention to notice my mistakes, and for that I thank you. And thank you also for pointing them out to me. I didn't think it was obvious that ol' boy meant good examples, and I'm still not convinced he did, but I'd believe it. And if that was what he meant, I apologize for misunderstanding. As for the steamflogger boss thing... Yeah, I should have realized he was joking.
This is what a discussion should look like. DarkwaterElemental, I have just gained a great deal of respect for you. I was just getting annoyed that I had to repeat myself so much, and I'm sorry to everyone for flying off the handle.
"I am confident that if anyone actually
penetrates our facades, even the most
perceptive would still be fundamentally
unprepared for the truth of House Dimir."
What? There are only five of them!!
Next time you're planning to make fake cards, maybe you shouldn't think out loud in a forum where everyone can see it!! You'll never fool us now!!!
On an internet forum? Don't be ridiculous. That never happens.
If you say so.
/lame joke
Seriously, though, I do think that Vampire Nocturnus is a good reason to suspect we'll see more vampires in the next year. M10 is only going to be around in Standard for one year, so if they weren't going to print some support for this card, they probably would have just saved it for M11 or put it into a block with lots of vampires.
And by the way, most of the examples you cited earlier came from blocks in which there were significant numbers of the creature type they supported, although not necessarily an all-out tribal theme.
About Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx:
This.
The list of "Lords" that Devil's Advocate posted is mostly based off of creatures that interacted with their "Tribe" at a decent level within the confines of the Block/Set they were printed in. The only one that fails that test is Greatbow Doyen, since there weren't tons of Archers printed in Lorwyn Block, but Morningtide featured a few "Class Lords" at Rare (Scarblade Elite, Gilt-Leaf Archdruid) that work for more unspported tribes, since the advent of the Changeling mechanic made these cards slightly more powerful as well as made them reasonably interesting cards at the casual level. So, the list is not particularly strong evidence that they will discontinue making Vampires, it simply points out that often they will make a Tribal Lord of some form or another that is relevant to a tribe self-contained by a single Set or Block. The argument as to whether or not this applies to Vampire Nocturnus is pertinent, but I would think that having direct confirmation that Vampires will become a more prevalent Black tribe (as stated by Doug Beyer) gives better indication that there may be Vampires in Zendikar than the evidence that many Tribal Lords exist in a vacuum gives indication there will not be any at all.
The revelation of a piece of product that features a creature that certainly looks as a newly concepted Vampire, with the possibility that the creature is also a Planeswalker, lends even more credence to the idea that we will see more Vampires within the next year.
If not just to make homage to one of the most classic Vampiric spells of all time, they could do something like this:
Nightsky Prophet 3BB
When Nightsky Prophet comes into play lose 2 life. Search your library for a card and put that card on top of your library.
4/4
Repeatable tutor effects, especially on a creature, would be strong. But the life loss, as well as the fact that multiples of this card would not work particurlarly well in conjunction with one another, would likely balance it out. Also, this would be pretty awesome with Vampire Nocturnus.
my vote is for vampires appearing in m10 (if our Sorin PW isn't a PW he'll be a vampire)